THIS IS NOT SPAM THIS HAS TO BE READ.

Elegy's picture

God does not exist therefore the Bible is fake. The bible says it's okay to eat meat, and if the bible is fake then it's not "okay to eat meat". I'm not saying it's NOT okay to eat meat, I'm saying it's okay to not eat meat.

BASICALLY, BEING A VEG IS OKAY.

But then, FOOD CHAIN OMGZ.

We as human beings are supposed to eat animals that eat plants that "eat" sunlight which will later eat us humans (and I don't get why Christians believe in Armaggedon AND the food chain because if they were smart enough they'd know the sun will one day explode and "eat" us)

But we've found our ways around that

Birth is natural, yet we've created "Birth control". We've just totally ruined mankind, and the food chain was created for humans that lived in the wild like wild animals.

We have (literally) FAKE cows and animals, ones that are injected with shit. We kill animals inhumanely, and use the food chain as an excuse, BUT WE DON'T LIVE IN THE WILD!!!

THAT, IDEA, THAT RULE DOESN'T COUNT ANYMORE BECAUSE WE HAVE CONQUERED EVERYTHING, RUINED EVERYTHING it just doesn't work!

ughughugh I suck at explaining things and I hate that and lol@me 'cause no one's gonna read this I'll post it on Nexopia instead.

Sapient's picture

Quote:'cause no one's gonna

Quote:
'cause no one's gonna read this

I just did. Smiling

- Brian Sapient


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Elegy's picture

lol sweeeeet BTW ARE YOU

lol sweeeeet Cool

BTW ARE YOU THE GUY THAT ADDED ANIMAL RIGHTS MOVEMENT ON MYSPACE 'cause I'm that volunteer I was talking about Cool

Uh, I'm not sure what this

Uh, I'm not sure what this hopeless diatribe is all about, but there are aspects of it that are rather troubling.

For one, there is clear confusion as to the usage of the concept of "food chain." It is not a teleological ought, but simply a descriptive device of a particular relationship in nature. To say that the food chain was created is to confuse is with ought and ascribe purpose where none is.

As to the usage of the food chain and armageddon in one sentence, it is perfectly reasonable (from their perspective) to believe in the truth of the end of the world and also in the biological certainty of the descriptive food chain principle since largely evoluton is ignored, as is most of science and the idea of the sun exploding doesn't work with the christian eschatology.

Lastly, I don't know where you get the idea of "fake cows and animals." I can only assume that you mean genetically engineered, but then animals are not being grown in vats and even if they were, what is "fake" about that? If you mean only that it isn't natural, then you'll have to explain what you mean by "natural" since generally speaking, the only way genetic engineering works is the fact that it is natural.

Every one of your relationships to man and to nature must be a definite expression of your real, individual life corresponding to the object of your will. -Erich Fromm

Reason_Passion is right, I

Reason_Passion is right, I think you have a very conceded view here.

Yes, it is okay to not eat meat. It's also okay to eat meat. What "unnatural shit' are you talking about? Meat is meat, and we're supposed to eat it. Or we DIE. Yes, there's ways around that, like supplements and stuff, but why? Why not kill animals? Do they think? Do they have emotions? No.

Where do you get the notion that cattle and the like are being treated badly? From what I've seen/heard, they're being treated pretty well, up until we kill them. It's not like they torture them for fun, or anything.

There is no reason to be a "veg."

Wilson: "We were afraid that if you found out you solved a case with absolutely no medical evidence you'd think you were God." House: "God doesn't limp."

Elegy's picture

so many hataz

so many hataz

Elegy's picture

:| i didn't even read your

:|

i didn't even read your post up until now, but okay.

reason_passion might have been a bit right, but YOU are not.

bibi

Elegy's picture

reason_passion:

Quote:
a descriptive device of a particular relationship in nature.

Exactly, IN NATURE.

We don't live like that anymore Shocked far from it, so it just doesn't apply to.. well, the way humans live now.

We used to store food and stop killing animals, not do it every day. In the wild, if humans lived lives at the will of the Earth, if things were how they should be, when there were too many people, (naturally), food became scarce and the population would like lower itself. Not kill more animals for food. They'd be balanced.. If humans lived as they should, like cavemen did, with the beasts and the wild, we'd be part of the food chain. Because that is how it should be. Life is meant to be recycled.
Humans have conquered this, and it will be the eventual end of mankind.

I think I wrote it wrong in my boredness-inspired-blog, but I meant that I know this christian that's obsessed with armaggedon, and she thinks that me being a vegetarian is stupid because "we're the top of the food chain" Not ONLY because, in my opinion, humans are NOT part of the food chain anymore, but because I believe that the sun WILL explode and this has to do with the food chain. JUST MY BELIEFS THOUGH, everyone has their own. So I don't understand why she'd say such a thing.

No I didn't mean literal fake cows heh.

Yeah. I meant the ones injected with drugs to please our appetites

Barf!

Sapient's picture

Quote: Nick Poling wrote:

Quote:

Nick Poling wrote: Why not kill animals? Do they think? Do they have emotions? No.

Of course animals think. As for emotions, us Americans don't eat the ones that do. But some animals have emotions as well. Chimps come to mind, and they are eaten in Africa.

Quote:

Nick Poling wrote: Where do you get the notion that cattle and the like are being treated badly?

There are hundreds of thousands of places one could look to see instances of neglect of animals. I simply did a google search for "cattle abuse" and will post a little piece from the first result:

http://www.shameway.com/cattle.asp
"While grazing, the animals are generally not protected against the blazing heat of states like Texas or the freezing cold of states like Nebraska or Kansas, so they may suffer from dehydration or heatstroke or may freeze to death. Many cattle "farmers" have other jobs and raise the animals "on the side." It is not in their best interests (or is not economically possible for them) to pay for veterinary care, especially since any animal who can make it to the slaughterhouse, no matter how much she or he is suffering, can be slaughtered for meat. One common ailment, "cancer eye," can rot out the entire side of a cow’s head, but the meat in that portion of the animal is not valuable anyway, so the animal’s suffering is often totally ignored.

Early in their lives, the animals are subjected to an array of painful procedures, including castration without painkillers, wattling (mutilation of the skin under the animal’s chin), and the infliction of third-degree burns (branding)."

Quote:
There is no reason to be a "veg."

C'mon man. Is this the humorous Nick talking? Because I find it hard to believe that you can't find a single reason to be a vegetarian. Keep in mind I'm an omnivore, but I can understand some points a vegetarian would make especially if they make the choice for themselves and don't insist it of others. Here again is the first link on "reason to be a vegetarian." Keep in mind I wouldn't agree with all of these, however you said there is "no reason to be a veg"

http://www.britishmeat.com/49.htm

The Environment

1. Conservation of Fossil fuel. It takes 78 calories of fossil fuel to produce 1 calorie of beef protein; 35 calories for 1 calorie of pork; 22 calories for 1 of poultry; but just 1 calorie of fossil fuel for 1 calorie of soybeans. By eating plant foods instead of animal foods, I help conserve our non-renewable sources of energy.

2. Water Conservation. It takes 3 to 15 times as much water to produce animal protein as it does plant protein. As a vegetarian I contribute to water conservation.

3. Efficient use of grains. It takes up to 16 pounds of soybeans and grains to produce 1 lb. of beef and 3 to 6 lbs. to produce 1 lb of turkey & egg. By eating grain foods directly, I make the food supply more efficient & that contributes to the environment.

4. Soil conservation. When grains & legumes are used more efficiently, our precious topsoil is automatically made more efficient in its use. We use less agricultural resources to provide for the same number of people.

5. Saving our forests. Tropical forests in Brazil and other tropic regions are destroyed daily, in part, to create more acreage to raise livestock. By not supporting the meat industry, I directly reduce the demand to pillage these irreplaceable treasures of nature. Since the forest land "filters" our air supply and contains botanical sources for new medicines, this destruction is irreversable.

6. Asthetics. Decaying animal parts, whether in a freezer case or served in restaurants, can never be as asthetically pleasing to the senses as the same foods made from wholesome vegetable sources. Only habit can allow one not to perceive this: a change in diet makes this self evident.

Personal Health
7. No deficiencies. There is no nutrient necessary for optimal human functioning which cannot be obtained from plant food.

8. High fat plus cholesterol. Animal foods are higher in fat than most plant foods, particularly saturated fats. Plants do not contain cholesterol.

9. "Carb" deficient. Meat is deficient in carbohydrates, particularly the starches which are so essential to proper health.

10. Vitamin deficient. Except for the b-complex, meat is largely deficient in vitamins.

11. Agricultural Chemicals. Being higher on the food chain, animal foods contain far higher concentrations of agricultural chemicals than plant foods, including pesticides, herbicides, etc.

12. Exposure to livestock drugs. There are over 20,000 different drugs, including sterols, antibiotics, growth hormones and other veterinary drugs that are given to livestock animals. These drugs are consumed when animal foods are consumed. The dangers herein, in secondary consumption of antibiotics, are well documented.

13. Pathogenic Microorganisms. There are a host of bacteria and viruses, some quite dangerous, that are common to animals. When I eat meat, I eat the organisms in the meat. Micro-organisms are present in plant foods too, but their number and danger to human health is by no means comparable to that of those in meat.

14. Worms and other Parasites. Ditto on # 13!

15. Shelf life differential. Plant foods last longer than animal foods. Try this experiment: Leave out a head of lettuce and a pound of hamburger for 1 day, which will make you sick?

16. Organoleptic Indications of Pathenogens. Plant foods give tell-tale signs of "going bad". Ever hear of someone getting sick from "bad broccoli"?

17. Heart Disease. Meat eating increases the risk of heart disease, this country's #1 killer. The correlation is an epidemiological fact.

18. Cancer prevention. Of all the natural cancer prevention substances found: vitamin C, B-17, hydroquionenes, beta carotene, NDGA, - none has been found to be animal derived. Yet most meats, when cooked, produce an array of benzenes and other carcinogenic compounds. Cancer is infinitely easier to prevent than cure. Soybeans contain protease inhibitor, a powerful anticancer compound. You won't find it in useful quantities in animal based food.

19. Disease Inducing. The correlation between meat consumption and a wide range of degenerative diseases is well founded and includes.....

20. Osteoporosis

21. Kidney Stones and Gallstones

22. Diabetes

23. Multiple Sclerosis

24. Arthritis

25. Gum disease

26. Acne. Aggravated by animal food.

27. Obesity. Studies confirm that vegetarians tend to be thinner than meat eaters. Obesity is considered by doctors to be a disease within itself.

28. Intestinal Toxemia. The condition of the intestinal flora is critical to overall health. Animal products putrefy the colon.

29. Transit time. Wholesome food travels quickly through the "G.I" tract, leaving little time to spoil and incite disease within the body.

30. Fiber deficient. Fiber absorbs unwanted, excess fats; cleans the intestines; provides bulk and aids in peristalsis. Plant food is high in fiber content; meat, poultry and dairy products have none.

31. Body wastes. Food from animals contain their waste, including adrenaline, uric and lactic acid, etc., Before adding ketchup, the biggest contributors to the "flavor profile" of a hamburger are the leftover blood and urine.

32. Excess protein. The average American eats 400% of the RDA for protein. This causes excess nitrogen in the blood that creates a host of long-term health problems.

33. Longevity. To increase ones risk of getting degenerative disease means decreasing ones chance to live a naturally long healthy life. Huzas and other peoples with large centenarian populations maintain lifestyles that are relatively meat free.

34. Well Being. I just feel better since "giving up" meat and becoming vegetarian.

Personal Finances
35. Health care costs. Being healthier on a vegetarian diet means spending less on health care.

36. Food costs. Vegetarian foods tend to cost less than meat based items.

Ethics
37. Love of animals. I love animals as I love myself. I have no desire to kill them or cause them harm.

38. Stance against Factory Farming.. I cannot make a statement against factory farming if I myself eat animals.

39. Respect for Sentient Life. I show gratitude to my Creator(s?) by eating as low on the food chain as possible.

40. "Economic Vote". I show support of the meat industry and the way they operate when I purchase and use their products.

41. Small sacrifice The sacrifice I make is nothing compared to the animals, its life.

42. Natural diet. Our hands, teeth, feet, intestinal tract...even our body chemistry is that of an herbivore.

43. Reciprocity. If I partake in the slaughter of animals, I will have to repay my contribution to that act.

44. "Protecting the Temple". "Whatever affects the body has a corresponding effect on the mind and soul" (E.G. White)

45. I believe in nonviolence. Slaughter isn't.

46. World Peace. There can never be peace among men while men are declaring war on other highly developed life forms.

47. Clear conscience. I know what I'm doing is right. I feel good inside about my decision to remain "meatless"

48. Example. To live this way is to protect the underlying values of those around me.

49. Easy substitutes. There are vegetable based substitutes for every meat product imaginable.

- Brian Sapient


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LeftofLarry's picture

I just want to say that the

I just want to say that the problem here is corporate farming. The goal of any capitalist business is to maximize profits while reducing costs. Corporate farmers have, at the expense of animal rights, been able to do so. This is why your average steak at the grocery store is affordable. One problem I have with corporate farming is the use of anti-biotics which is spearheading the spread of anti-biotic resistance within our "produce" species. The other problem is the ill treatment of these animals and the unnatural selective breeding (genetic engineering designs) that they use to create overtly fat cows and chickens that can not even walk. A life of painful confinement until we kill them. We don't torture them purposefully, but by default, the conditions they are kept in are indeed "tortorous". Maximize profits, reduce costs.

I am not PETA apologist here, however, I do find some of their causes worthwhile. I wish that PETA would spend more time worrying about ecological problems than how a chicken feels. That is a bigger problem right now. Believe it or not we are going through a huge mass extinction of species right now. The whole anti-fishing and anti-hunting and anti-animal testing (except for cosmetic products) campaigns are bullshit.

Eating meat is perfectly natural, and healthy if done in moderation and balance. Vegetarianism, and veganism have been propagandized by PETA. However, I really think that corporate farming should be held under scrutiny by government for the humane treatment of these animals and for the pollution control from corporate chicken farms etc.....

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elegy wrote: We used to

elegy wrote: We used to store food and stop killing animals, not do it every day. In the wild, if humans lived lives at the will of the Earth, if things were how they should be... If humans lived as they should, like cavemen did, with the beasts and the wild, we'd be part of the food chain

I'm not sure where you are getting these "should" comments. On what basis do you believe that humans "should" be living the way you describe? The only thing I can see here for a reason you're putting forth is that that is how we used to live and therefore that's how it should always be. Quite frankly, that doesn't even make any sense with evolution, as things constantly change to incorporate new situations. As to a social ethic beyond essential evolution, there is no case that can be made that living like we used to is in any way intrinsically better than how we live now. If we followed your thinking, nobody would live past 40, we'd be in pain all the time due to a lack of medical care and you personally would already have several children as there were no laws about incest, rape or designating people as minors in the days of the cavemen. I highly doubt you'd appreciate it.

In addition, simply because we no longer live like we did thousands of years before in no way implies that we are no longer a part of the food chain. If we weren't, we'd no longer have to worry about bacteria and viruses, an essential part of the food chain.

I completely agree with the core of what I believe you to be saying and leftoflarry has delineated his views on this. The issue is not to debate what is natural, but rather our relationship to the world and to do so in as responsible way as possible.

Every one of your relationships to man and to nature must be a definite expression of your real, individual life corresponding to the object of your will. -Erich Fromm

goescrunch's picture

Thanks for looking up this list...

and referencing it, even though you are an admitted omnivore. ^_^ That shows a willingness to learn and understand. That's a rare quality in todays world.

I was also rather stunned to see anyone associated with the RRS thinking that animals do not think or have emotion. o_O Considering all the non-biased scientific research that has proven otherwise, I'm surprised that any rational human would argue that....

Still, something thinking or having emotion... I wouldn't say an omnivore should let that get in the way of their eating said being, so long as it is raised humanely and killed just as humanely. ^-^ After all, there are worse things than death.

Sapient's picture

Quote:I was also rather

Quote:
I was also rather stunned to see anyone associated with the RRS thinking that animals do not think or have emotion.

Me too. In matters of RRS affiliation please keep in mind that our stance is that the trinity of Mike, Rook, and Sapient must agree on a concept in order for it to be the official RRS postion. Everyone else associated shares at least one thing in common with us, and one thing only: lack of belief in a god. We'll have many differences I'm sure, but are united in working to help end theism. Mike, Rook, and I have many differences ourselves, you don't hear about them much, because we try only to assert what we can all agree on.

- Brian Sapient


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Elegy's picture

reasonpassion: I guess my

reasonpassion:

I guess my opinion was biased because I am a vegetarian. I dont' think that if we are going to have any relationship with the world, that we should be eating meat. Animals are nature's gift, why can't we use them peacefully instead of have them nearly extinct but painfully create more to appetize us? To have us happy? I think it's selfish, I don't think it's necasary for us to eat animals.

And yes, PETA sucks.

Nick_Poling

what you said about animals not having feelings was totally ignorant. Even fanatic meat eaters I know understand that animals have feelings and feel pain and fear Barf!

darth_josh's picture

Sounds like a lot of reasons

Sounds like a lot of reasons why we shouldn't eat animals.

Let me give one really good reason for eating animals:
THEY TASTE GOOD. MMMM.

Excuse me,
May I please direct your attention to science for a moment. Go ahead and berate the inhumane treatment of animals for no purpose. It is a useless endeavor to try to understand the way animals are harmed for any reason other than food or research.However, save your sanctimonious rhetoric for those who don't understand the value of animal testing.
With that said, we will continue to reap the benefits of being the dominant species upon this planet until its destruction. At which time, we will launch our happy, meat-eating, self-serving, fat asses into space to find another planet in the universe to rape, pillage, and plunder. (metaphorical rape, the literal is just nasty.)
When the sun no longers makes fodder for the lesser, more tastier creatures, we will create our own food to nurture our young even if it is Soylent Green.
Life is important only when said life can value itself. Humanity, in all its form and splendor, must perpetuate and progress.

Think about how many pigs there would be if no one ate pork.
Mmmmm. Bacon. Ham. Mmmmmm.
Two and a half months until deer season and then I'll be eating Bambi because hunters around here love to share the bounty. I haven't shot a deer since 1990, but I eat at least a half of one every year. Better that way instead of a dent on the front bumper.

Love ya. Mean it.

Josh

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Elegy's picture

I won't waste my time, it's

I won't waste my time, it's people like you that creates vegetarians like me.

darth_josh's picture

See you should thank me for

See you should thank me for your 'healthy' lifestyle then.

How do you get your B12?
Do you drink milk? Have you ever seen a milking machine?

Do you eat eggs?

Do you like Jell-o?

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Elegy's picture

I'm not vegan, I drink and

I'm not vegan, I drink and love milk and dairy products and I eat and LOVE eggs, I don't eat Jello though, it's disgusting.

darth_josh's picture

So the difference between

So the difference between vegan and vegetarian is that it's okay to rip away the chickens' unborn offspring for your omelet? Or to deprive a calf of its mother's milk for your shake? Or melt down Eeyore to cook your freedom fries?
Basically, just non-meat-eater but still a meat-user.

What about fish? Have you ever had snake? Tastes and looks about the same.
What do you eat for thanksgiving dinner?

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Elegy's picture

The difference between

The difference between vegans and vegetarians is that they don't have ANYTHING to do with animals. They don't eat them, eat any animal byproducts (Sp), don't wear fur, animal skin, don't use products that are tested on animals etc.

But vegetarians are different. The majority of veges just don't eat meat, period. No meat, no poultry/seafood etc.

I don't eat ANY kind of meat, the milk I drink comes from my uncle's farm where he milks the cows himself and i've watched him do it, usually cows are impregnated (it's rape) and their male calves are used as veal, and they use machines to get every single drop of their milk. I don't even drink milk or have any dairy products anyway, not a lot.

My guitar teacher found out I was a vege and he told me he could help a little because his brother had a farm and he sold free range eggs. I get my eggs from him. The way he does it is he lets his chicken[s?] loose and picks up their eggs wherever he finds them, so he's not using machines or giving them any crap to make them produce more eggs. i don't use products where animals were tested on (I don't use medicine either, maybe once a year) and I obviously don't wear fur.

I'm starting a volunteer job as soon as school starts at an SPCA down my street as well.

Oh and I use vegetable oil, my whole family does. For thanksgiving, even though we don't really do much (my family isn't christian) I just have a tofu hotdog, they taste like normal hotdogs.

y u so meen

GodStoleMyFriends's picture

My only problems with people

My only problems with people who are vegetarian and vegan is when they attack me for eating meat. I'm an omnivore and I plan to stay that way forever, things could change, but I doubt it.

As long as you leave me alone, I don't care. I'm glad you've chosen a healthy lifestyle.

Oh, and darth_josh isn't being mean elegy, he's stating the facts. I really doubt that PETA(while I do agree with some things they are pushing) will ever put a stop to people eating meat. Nor would I want them too. I'm very picky about vegetables...the few I like would probably not sustain me for the rest of my life.

I love fruits though.

As for medicine. If it was tested on an animal and I need it...I'll use it.

"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank."-Woody Allen

"Atheism is life affirming in a way religion can never be."-Richard Dawkins

darth_josh's picture

I don't know. Maybe I am

I don't know. Maybe I am mean. Let me think about it over my bacon and eggs this morning.

Incidentally, bulls don't really wait for consent either while they're impregnating cows.

elegy,
What happens to your uncle's cows when they no longer serve their purpose?

How does eating free-range eggs differ from eating hen-coop eggs?

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Elegy's picture

"My only problems with

"My only problems with people who are vegetarian and vegan is when they attack me for eating meat. I'm an omnivore and I plan to stay that way forever, things could change, but I doubt it.

As long as you leave me alone, I don't care. I'm glad you've chosen a healthy lifestyle.

Oh, and darth_josh isn't being mean elegy, he's stating the facts. I really doubt that PETA(while I do agree with some things they are pushing) will ever put a stop to people eating meat. Nor would I want them too. I'm very picky about vegetables...the few I like would probably not sustain me for the rest of my life.

I love fruits though.

As for medicine. If it was tested on an animal and I need it...I'll use it."

Yes, I hate when ANYONE tries to push their beliefs on me. But this is a blog and it's for whoever wants to read it.

I didn't actually mean he was mean Sticking out tongue Hence the shitty spelling,..?

No Josh you're not, I just meant w/eeeeeeeee

I don't know what happens to them, that has nothing to do with my milk. What I know is that they are treated good when being milked and it isn't done violently.

And no, I wouldn't want him to kill the cows, and I doubt he would because he himself and his family don't eat much red meat anyways. But that's a good question.

Free range eggs are different because the eggs weren't forced out of them nor were the chickens put in machines NOR were they given any shots to make them produce more eggs.

The eggs however are still the same, still unborn chicks, but they're unborn. Sick to think of it yeah, I don't get why you're trying to make me feel bad when you yourself are like 10 times worse when it comes to eating animals

I wouldn't be healthy if I were vegan because I'm 15 and live with and off of my parents money. I know there's a lot I can do and it would be easy to become vegan, but there's animal in everything my mom makes and I'm sure she wouldn't want to make me vegan food, and I probably couldn't make it myself. It'd be a lot easier if I lived on my own because then I would know for sure my fridge is animal free.

Or I could save up and buy my own fridge which is something I'm planning on doing.

Hmmmmm thanks josh!

Rich_Rodriguez's picture

Aren't 7th Day Adventist

Aren't 7th Day Adventist vegetarians? I just find vegetraian dishes so damn hard to prepare and very expensive. I like the idea behind them but find it to be just too much a pain in the ass. Good on you for having the patience to eat lettuce all day.

darth_josh's picture

Elegy, Were you led to

Elegy,
Were you led to vegetarianism or was it your choice made by examining your own conclusions?

I find it very redeeming of an individual when they make their own decisions when given all of the facts.

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Elegy's picture

I didn't become a vegetarian

I didn't become a vegetarian c'ause i saw pictures of dead animals on the internet.... i figured i would be healthier and if my parents support it then why not.

CAN WE STOP PLZ.

elegy, poor doll. you can

elegy, poor doll. you can pick, choose, do, and eat whatever you want. i'm a rabid meatist in the vein of darth josher there, but there's no reason to slap vegies with slabs of raw, greasy meat to assert one's love for a food. it's not as if there's any credible movement of anti-carnivores attempting to outlaw meat that needs to be viciously put down.....hah ha, crazy, am i? bungus.

Fear is the mindkiller.