NBA players boycott viewers, we should boycott them.

Sapient's picture

When the NBA players went on strike and missed a portion of the 2011-2012 NBA season, I knew what I had to do.  But it's been hard.  My team (Sixers) are playing great, I would watch those games.  The NBA is full of excitement like Jeremy Lin breaking records and barriers.  The Thunder have young talent, the Heat are awesome to watch, and think of all the rooting against the Lakers I am missing out on.  The desire to watch is overwhelming me, yet my integrity and character instruct me to avoid these players who are out of touch. 
 
I tuned into a few NBA games, for a moment or two and every time I do I am overwhelmed by feelings of disgust as I watch these greedy self destructive men.  I still can't get over the fact that they insisted on 3% more in this type of economy (NBA Lockout 2011).  I can't get over that most of them came from nothing, that most of them know how important the game is to the communities they came from, and how they fought all their lives to play a game for a living, and refused to play it over a very small amount of money.  I can't get over the fact that they knew if they didn't play, and that if they took games away from the season they would end up with a smaller pool of money.  I can't get over their greed.  I can't get over their lack of humanity when they forced thousands of stadium employees out of work and to the unemployment line in this trying time.  
 
I can't get over their stupidity, they made the sport smaller, they are making a bigger percent of less.  They destroyed the sport at the moment where it had reached it's most exciting moment since Michael Jordan.  They have ruined the NBA for me.  They have ruined it for many.    My love of basketball and the NBA is deep.  My instincts are to watch some of these games, and every single time I turn one on for a second, I can't enjoy it, they are horrible people and are not fun to watch.  I tend to focus on how out of touch with both society and their own lives they must have been to strike.  I can only think of how they don't deserve my viewership.  They disgust me.  I feel like spitting in their faces, not watching them play.  They certainly will never get another penny from me.  For that I will wait until every current NBA player retires, until I can pay for merchandise or a game.  Just as I did when I boycotted baseball after the strike of 1995 until 2009.  I was addicted to baseball as a kid, collected cards, and it was my life.  When they showed me that they didn't care about the fans at all, I realized I should stop caring about them.  The NBA players have showed you they don't care about you, themselves, the ticket holders, the kids who watch the game, and those employed by the game.  They only care about money, and for that I detest them.  They don't deserve to be the NBA.  
 
If you ever find yourself in a position to get paid millions of dollars to play a game you love and pursued your entire life, do yourself a favor and play the game.  If they tell you they want to pay you 3 million instead of 3.1 million, take the 3 million.  Don't forget where you came from.
 
 

 

UPDATED: Speaking of boycotts, most of you are already boycotting Chris Brown for brutally beating Rihanna.  The NBA felt it was appropriate to hire Chris Brown to perform at it's recent All-Star game.  Is there a vortex of stupidity at the NBA now?  This decision was made by NBA management.  It's just one more reason to boycott the NBA.

 

- Brian Sapient


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Brian37's picture

Brian, it is rare that you

Brian, it is rare that you and I have disagreements. But I am with the players.

First off, the big money people hear about is the minority in all pro sports. Not to mention if you look at all the players in all pro sports, their careers are short compared to all the physical abuse they take from childhood through college, which they don't get paid for, just to at best play 3 to 5 years. The minimum wage in pro sports does not sustain the average player or back up after they leave. Most players in pro sports suffer tons of physical abuse getting there only to get injured, and dumped by the respective league. Then most of the time get stuck with the medical bills for the rest of their lives.

It is not to say that some players get paid way too much. But if anyone is to blame for the high cost, it would be the greed of big business in general. I'd blame the owners more than the players.

Our current business climate is one of consumption not care. I am quite sure all these owners can afford the demands the players have made. What they should not do is take it out on the players. The players are why those owners are rich.

The only thing one might argue about players is maybe the highest paid ones could take a cut. But I am not going to cry for the billionaires who own the teams.

This isn't just about sports. This is about Corporate America thinking it owns the world.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Brian37's picture

I will add though that I

I will add though that I agree that the employees who run the stadium, clean it and sell the food, DID get screwed. But I blame the owners, they should care about the people that make them rich. I think the players were within their rights, just like any other union to bargain.

Business owners cannot make money without workers. Players are workers, not owners.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Brian37's picture

Next time a strike happens,

Next time a strike happens, instead of just making it about the players, I think all the employees who have tenure, down to the janitors should be part of the bargaining. But if you ask me to take sides with the top income earners IN OUR CURRENT CLIMATE, I cant.

What the rich did after WW2 was right and made sense. They invested, they built. The current climate of the top in any business, much less sports is to maximize profits.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Beyond Saving's picture

Brian37 wrote:Brian, it is

Brian37 wrote:

Brian, it is rare that you and I have disagreements. But I am with the players.

First off, the big money people hear about is the minority in all pro sports. Not to mention if you look at all the players in all pro sports, their careers are short compared to all the physical abuse they take from childhood through college, which they don't get paid for, just to at best play 3 to 5 years. The minimum wage in pro sports does not sustain the average player or back up after they leave. Most players in pro sports suffer tons of physical abuse getting there only to get injured, and dumped by the respective league. Then most of the time get stuck with the medical bills for the rest of their lives.

It is not to say that some players get paid way too much. But if anyone is to blame for the high cost, it would be the greed of big business in general. I'd blame the owners more than the players.

Our current business climate is one of consumption not care. I am quite sure all these owners can afford the demands the players have made. What they should not do is take it out on the players. The players are why those owners are rich.

The only thing one might argue about players is maybe the highest paid ones could take a cut. But I am not going to cry for the billionaires who own the teams.

This isn't just about sports. This is about Corporate America thinking it owns the world.

 

 

I think you should see how your assumptions compare to reality.

How many NBA team owners made a profit last year?

What was the average profit for an NBA team owner? 

What is the median profit for an NBA team owner?

How does the return on investment compare to other potential investments an NBA owner could make?

What is the median pay of an NBA player?

What is the minimum pay for an NBA player? 

On how many teams does the owner make more money than the highest paid player?

On how many teams does the owner make less money than the lowest paid player?

 

Do your research and I bet your guess to the answers of most of these questions is not consistent with reality. 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken

Sapient's picture

Brian37 wrote:Brian, it is

Brian37 wrote:

Brian, it is rare that you and I have disagreements. But I am with the players.

First off, the big money people hear about is the minority in all pro sports. Not to mention if you look at all the players in all pro sports, their careers are short compared to all the physical abuse they take from childhood through college, which they don't get paid for, just to at best play 3 to 5 years. The minimum wage in pro sports does not sustain the average player or back up after they leave.

The minimum wage in the NBA will allow a player to make a lifetime of salary for you and I in 3 years.  Over the next three years they will then more than double that.  And that's if they get paid league minimum.  Why should we think the protocol is that someone works hard, takes a toll on their body and must receive a life sustaining salary in their ten year career?  And they will in fact get a life sustaining salary more than three times over, even in a short career, even at minimum wage.

Show me a construction worker, a fireman, and a police officer that make a lifetime salary in 2 or 3 years.

 

Quote:
Most players in pro sports suffer tons of physical abuse getting there only to get injured, and dumped by the respective league. Then most of the time get stuck with the medical bills for the rest of their lives.

I think you're mistaken here.  Most pro sports give their players incredible healthcare, and have plans and services for care after their done playing.  

 

Quote:
It is not to say that some players get paid way too much. But if anyone is to blame for the high cost, it would be the greed of big business in general. I'd blame the owners more than the players.

Our current business climate is one of consumption not care. I am quite sure all these owners can afford the demands the players have made.

Don't be.  The truth is that the NBA was heading towards bankruptcy, the players acting like little bitches only helped send the NBA more towards that path.

 

- Brian Sapient


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Sapient's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:I think

Beyond Saving wrote:

I think you should see how your assumptions compare to reality.

How many NBA team owners made a profit last year?

What was the average profit for an NBA team owner? 

What is the median profit for an NBA team owner?

How does the return on investment compare to other potential investments an NBA owner could make?

What is the median pay of an NBA player?

What is the minimum pay for an NBA player? 

On how many teams does the owner make more money than the highest paid player?

On how many teams does the owner make less money than the lowest paid player?

 

Do your research and I bet your guess to the answers of most of these questions is not consistent with reality. 

Many of these numbers are unavailable.  But in a leaked financial document we learned that...

"The Hornets were purchased by the NBA in December. The team mired in over $100 million of debt, was losing money and borrowing funds from the league to meet payroll. The NBA purchase was for an enterprise value of $310 million (we think the team would fetch only $280 million in an arms-length transaction) and was assisted by a $70 million loan from former majority owner George Shinn. The loan is to be repaid at 3% interest over three years. Despite having among the lowest ticket prices in the league the Hornets were having trouble selling tickets and get no revenue outside of NBA games from their arena. The team's lease expires after the 2013-14 season, making it easier for the NBA to sell the team."

The ex owner of the team had to sold the team to the NBA as it was full of debt.  To make the deal happen the billionaire ex-majority owner gave the NBA a 70 million dollar loan to keep the team afloat.  The players continued to get paid their lucrative salaries, the NBA and the ownership went further in debt.

Brians arguments aren't based on reality at all.  The fact is that most billionaire NBA owners make near nothing in the NBA or take huge losses, the players were already being paid the highest portion of revenue of any major sport, and in a time of economic dispair in a summer with Occupy Wall Street these men who came out of poverty to become millionaires sent a message to me and all fans of basketball, that they don't give a shit about us.  That they aren't hard workers who are willing to play a positive role in this society.  The players were trying to pull off a heist.  The players were using the power of their skills to get a completely unreasonable and unfair agreement.  The owners lost 700 million dollars over the last two years.  The players all made a minimum of $500,000 with top salaries around $20 million dollars.  The owners wouldn't be good owners if they would've signed the moronic deal the players put forward.  And the moronic players were asking for a deal that would have put them all out of work within 2 years.... or the owners out of another $700+ million.

- Brian Sapient


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Sapient's picture

 Here is what our buddy had

 Here is what our buddy had to say on my facebook profile in response to my post on my NBA boycott...

After the NFL revamped its economy and went to socialization, I decided to give them another chance. Since then, I've been more and more impressed with the power of salary caps and profit sharing for creating a system of parity. With a few notable exceptions (I'm looking at you, Payton...) most of the players understand that their salaries are part of a bigger plan for not only a successful team, but a successful and profitable league.

I am more of an NFL fan today than I was a decade ago. I watched more games this year than probably ever before.

The NBA is completely out of touch with reality, both economic and social. When tickets to a Lakers game are going for $1000+ during the regular season? When a "lockout" occurs for reasons you've eloquently addressed? When players are willing to let the stadium employees -- who make little more than minimum wage -- go on unemployment while they fight over 3 million vs. 3.1?

I honestly don't think I'll be able to ever look at the NBA again unless and until they demonstrate a basic understanding of their role in society, and their importance in the lives of lots of people who are struggling to make it from week to week.

- Brian Sapient


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Brian37's picture

Quote:The fact is that most

Quote:
The fact is that most billionaire NBA owners make near nothing

Yea, that's why they are billionaires. Thanks for the laugh.

You spent paragraph upon paragraph talking bout loans and losses. WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? You have no fucking problem blaming some middle class person if they cant meet mortgage but you want me to have sympathy for billionaires? I find it laughable that you are trying to paint them out to be humanitarians and try to make the players out to be criminals.

Ok Mitt,

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37

Beyond Saving's picture

$

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
The fact is that most billionaire NBA owners make near nothing

Yea, that's why they are billionaires. Thanks for the laugh.

You spent paragraph upon paragraph talking bout loans and losses. WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? You have no fucking problem blaming some middle class person if they cant meet mortgage but you want me to have sympathy for billionaires? I find it laughable that you are trying to paint them out to be humanitarians and try to make the players out to be criminals.

Ok Mitt,

They might be billionaires but for the most part, few of them made their billions from basketball. They make their money in other endeavors. While some of the large market teams do ok- on the order of $30-$40 million per year that isn't a fantastic return from a pure business standpoint. If you buy a team for $500 million and your only making $30 million a year you could have made better money elsewhere. Wealthy people generally buy sports teams as status symbols rather than investments. Kind of the same reason they buy expensive antiques or famous paintings- the value might go up, they might make a little money but ultimately they are in it because they love the sport and think owning a team would be cool.

 

The point of me asking the questions is I was hoping you would look up the answers yourself under the theory that if you looked it up you would be more likely to believe it than me telling you. The answer is that the average NBA team had $8 million in operating income- that is income before taxes and interest. Most of the income was made by the top five which averaged $37 million. 15 teams lost money. The median is around a $2 million loss.

 

The average salary for NBA players is $5.15 million, the median is $2.33 million the minimum for first year rookies is just shy of $500k and rises to just shy of a million after 5 years. Note- every NBA player makes more money than yours truly. Why am I greedy and they aren't? By simply being a part of the NBA they are by definition the top 1%.

 

So many players are doing better than the owners, especially since many teams are owned by groups instead of individuals so the profits are often being split several ways. And for the 15 teams that lost money, even the lowest paid player is taking more home than the investor.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/01/25/the-most-and-least-profitable-nba-teams/

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/32/basketball-valuations-11_New-York-Knicks_328815.html 

http://www.insidehoops.com/nbasalaries.shtml

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/steve_aschburner/08/19/average-salary/index.html

 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken

Beyond Saving's picture

Sapient wrote: Here is what

Sapient wrote:

 Here is what our buddy had to say on my facebook profile in response to my post on my NBA boycott...

After the NFL revamped its economy and went to socialization, I decided to give them another chance. Since then, I've been more and more impressed with the power of salary caps and profit sharing for creating a system of parity. With a few notable exceptions (I'm looking at you, Payton...) most of the players understand that their salaries are part of a bigger plan for not only a successful team, but a successful and profitable league.

I am more of an NFL fan today than I was a decade ago. I watched more games this year than probably ever before.

The NBA is completely out of touch with reality, both economic and social. When tickets to a Lakers game are going for $1000+ during the regular season? When a "lockout" occurs for reasons you've eloquently addressed? When players are willing to let the stadium employees -- who make little more than minimum wage -- go on unemployment while they fight over 3 million vs. 3.1?

I honestly don't think I'll be able to ever look at the NBA again unless and until they demonstrate a basic understanding of their role in society, and their importance in the lives of lots of people who are struggling to make it from week to week.

 

I think it is quite clear that the NFL has created a system that maximizes overall profitability and the popularity of their sport. Their revenue sharing system allows even small market teams to be profitable and the hard salary cap along with the way the draft system is set up keeps teams competitive and therefore, more entertaining. At the end of the day the goal is to provide the best product to the consumers and the NFL puts a lot of effort into their final product and the growth that it has experienced over the last couple decades is a testament to the success of their business model. The NBA could probably learn a few lessons from the NFL.

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken

Sapient's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
The fact is that most billionaire NBA owners make near nothing

Yea, that's why they are billionaires. Thanks for the laugh.

They might be billionaires but for the most part, few of them made their billions from basketball. 

 

"Few" of them made billions from basketball?  Don't worry to leave room for a possible owner who got rich from the NBA.  I defy anyone to name a single owner who made his billions from basketball.  Every single NBA owner made their money outside of the NBA.  The NBA should be lucky that these guys are so filthy fucking rich, because they took a 700 million hit in the last two years and had enough money from the earnings they made outside of the NBA to cover it.  

Brian is acting/arguing like a theist right now (out of ignorance), it's pathetic.

- Brian Sapient


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Beyond Saving's picture

Sapient wrote:"Few" of them

Sapient wrote:

"Few" of them made billions from basketball?  Don't worry to leave room for a possible owner who got rich from the NBA.  I defy anyone to name a single owner who made his billions from basketball.  Every single NBA owner made their money outside of the NBA.  The NBA should be lucky that these guys are so filthy fucking rich, because they took a 700 million hit in the last two years and had enough money from the earnings they made outside of the NBA to cover it.  

Brian is acting/arguing like a theist right now (out of ignorance), it's pathetic.

I was thinking specifically of Jerry Reinsdorf. He made his millions in real estate/development and bought the White Sox for $19 million in 1981 and the Bulls for $16 million in 1985. The White Sox are now worth around $440 million and the Bulls are worth over $500 million. His net worth is only around the $300 million mark according to Forbes so if/when the teams are sold the only reason he will be a billionaire is because of the success of the sports teams.

 

Granted, it took two teams from two different sports both of which perform well above average financially and investing for 30 years to get that kind of value. But one could argue that most of Reinsdorf's fortune is directly related to the Bulls and the NBA. Probably mostly thanks to Michael Jordan. Definitely the exception, but that's why I included the qualifier. The interesting thing is that Reinsdorf was successful precisely because he is well known for being a cheapskate and getting quality teams for relatively low salaries. 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken

Sapient's picture

 Good point on Jerry.  He

 Good point on Jerry.  He has a great legacy as an owner, some shit talked about him, but the same can be said of all owners.  Of course he doesn't fit the billionaire category.

I found a list (it's dated) with the worth of NBA owners in 2005.  

Here are the billionaires: 

OwnerTeamNet worth
Paul AllenPortland$20 billion
Micky ArisonMiami$5.3 billion
Rich DeVosOrlando$3 billion
William DavidsonDetroit$2.8 billion
Glen TaylorMinnesota$1.8 billion
Melvin SimonIndiana$1.6 billion
E. Stanley KroenkeDenver$1.4 billion
Mark CubanDallas$1.3 billion
Herb SimonIndiana$1.2 billion

 

Let's break em down...

Paul Allen: co-founded microsoft before NBA

Micky Arison: owner of Carnival Cruises before NBA

Rich DeVos: co-founder of Amway before NBA

William Davidson (deceased now): Made his billions at Guardian Industries (largest manufacturer of glass) before NBA 

Glen Taylor: Built up a print shop company purchased from original owner, before the NBA

Melvin Simon: Film Producer and Businessman who built Simon Property Group before the NBA

E. Stanley Kroenke: THF realty and Walmart developer before NBA

Mark Cuban: dot com boom entrepreneur sold his companies for billions before the NBA 

Herb Simon: The other half of Simon Property Group, before the NBA

 

Not a single billionaire NBA owner made his money off of the NBA.  In the last few years the NBA, the players, and the fans, owe the current existence of the NBA to the fact that these men were filthy fucking rich outside of the NBA and could afford operating losses of 700 million during the down economy.  The players tried to pull of a heist of the actual hard earned dollars of these billionaires.  The players showed their true colors in Cuba Gooding "show me the money" or they wont work fashion.  The owners were willing to absorb huge operating losses, the players were out of touch with their fan base, themselves, and reality in not agreeing to the cuts necessary to keep the NBA afloat.

And Brian is literally just making shit up, with no actual knowledge of the facts here.

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.

Completely with you on this

Brian, I'm completely with you on this. Now I am all for a strike when it is needed. If the NBA players were getting screwed over and barely paid then I'd support them. But when someone is paid millions to do what they love, especially when there are so many people out there that would kill to be a player in the NBA, it is overwhelmingly arrogant, petty and disrespectful to the fans to go on strike because of any amount of money. Especially an amount that really amounts to nothing.

Now I was never really a big NBA fan like you, but you're inability to now watch the NBA raises a good question that I have to wonder if any of the players really took the time to think out. What if half of all NBA fans felt like you now do? What if all the NBA fans felt like you now do? Then they are all out of the job and making nothing. Risking it all for very little. Very stupid.

Now I fully admit that basketball players are very talented athletes. They can do stuff on the court that I know I could never do. But let's be honest, basketball is not exactly the most dangerous sports career in the world. Rather or not you like sports like football or boxing or ultimate fighting, those athletes are definatly at a higher risk of serious, even fatal, injury. I'm not even going to go into the fact that b-ball players could be doing dangerous jobs like working in coal mines or in the military. Jobs that would be higher risk and no celebrity status. And I would love to see their reaction to those paychecks.

Also I bet if the younger versions of those NBA players, like when they were 16 shooting hoops in their back yard and only dreaming about going pro, could meet up with the older going-on-strike version of themselves, there would be a lot of dissapointment in what they had become.