I make little girls cry.

Normal Bob Smith's picture

I was in rare form last night. I took on a whole team of Christians and sent them packing. It was a sight to behold to say the least.

When I arrived at Union they had their booths already set up on both sides of the park. I sat down directly in front of the one on the west side of Union Sq South, and immediately one of them in their yellow smocks came up to me and asked if I would like one of their pamphlets. I replied "No thank you. I don't believe in God."
They love that answer a lot.

And that began what was probably a 40 minute discussion with this girl. Then her coworker friend came over, both of these girls were from Alabama and probably 19 years old or so. And her friend, let's call her Amy (because I forgot her name), was total cult member status. Trained with the best of 'em to repeat phrases like "God made it that way," and "I don't believe in fantasies. I believe in Jesus!" She even, at one point said, during a discussion of a good father going to hell, and a murderer going to heaven, that this was a beautiful thing!
Anyhow, this was all as usual. No new exciting arguments from their side.

One interesting thing that happened was when this blond lady sitting to my right spoke up and said, sort of agitated "Why are you guys bothering to discuss this? Neither of you are going to change your minds? Why don't you just believe what you want to believe, and you girls believe what you want, and be done with it?" All this said in a tone that you could tell she was irritated having to listen to what we were saying.

The girls, of course responded with, "Because I want him to go to heaven."
The lady replied, "He's not gonna change his mind. Did you see the tattoos on his arms? You're both wasting your time trying to convince each other."

I said to her, "I'm arguing this because that's what we should be doing. Discussing differences of opinions is what's going to save the human race. Not shutting up. Not war, or violence, or flying planes into buildings, but discussion. That's what we all should be doing. Not believing whatever we want to believe, and remaining ignorant of each other. That gets us nowhere."
That lady hung around and listened after I said that, and the girls were stunned. She even jumped in later and asked why God didn't make it so good deeds get us into heaven. I made her care.

Their cult-stare showed extra bright when I presented them with the "Heaven is Hell" question. They couldn't respond with anything other than "That's why we're out here tell people about Jesus."
But they could never look the question dead in the eyes and respond. No matter how I spelled it out.
"You're going to heaven, right?"
"Yes!" They gleefully responded.
"And there are people in hell, right?"
"Yes." Less gleeful.
"How can you enjoy any kind of paradise while your brothers and sisters from earth suffer and burn forever?"
They couldn't even hear the question. They were stunned. I stated, "All I want you to say to me is 'Yes, I can enjoy a heaven while others burn forever in hell' But you can not say it. Why?"
Of course they couldn't respond.
Then when they said they wanted to pray for me, I said, "Please don't. When people pray for me, it's like wishing me to be in that horrible place you call heaven. Praying is you wanting to separate loved ones from each other. I don't know how anyone could ever want that." They were paralyzed. Utterly speechless. And I was elated! I'd just discovered what to say when someone wants to pray for me! Something that paints their prayer in an unmerciful, vomit-colored light!

And when these girls couldn't answer my questions anymore, I said "I wish you could get someone over there to answer my questions for me." And boy, they jumped on that invite to get away from me. They ran back to their booth and told on me.

They sent over this big, giant, fat, black man who stood above me (mind you I remained seated on the steps of Union this entire time), and said, "Hello brother. My friends told me that you needed some questions answered?"
And his response to the "Heaven is Hell question" was? "When we get to Heaven we no longer worry about those things. God said that in Heaven we will be given a new body and a new mind. We will not have the same feelings we had here on Earth."
"We won't remember our loved ones?" I asked.
"No, I'm not saying that. We'll remember them..."
"We just won't love them anymore? Like we did here on earth?"
"No. I didn't say that. We just have to move on. We have to get on with our lives." He was getting angry with me.
"Heaven sounds horrible. I don't know why anyone would want to go there. We seriously forget about all of them?"
"No, now if you refuse to believe what I'm telling you then you won't go there!"
"I don't want to go there! Being on a throne in heaven while my brother burns in hell forever? It sounds like a nightmare!"

He too wanted to pray for me, and I said that I didn't want it. I didn't want to go to this horrible place he called heaven. After a while of this he got quite frustrated with me and stomped away saying things like "I guess you won't get to go to heaven then!"
"Why would I want to go there?" I replied. "I love people." I was honestly saddened by their heartlessness with the matter. And let me say, I was not speaking to them sarcastically, but as openly and curious as possible while he was totally trying to intimidate me, standing over me as I sat on my ass on those steps. I rather enjoyed it. I had no fear at all. And when someone is doing their biggest display to intimidate someone 5 feet below them, and it still doesn't work, it really makes them look really bad.

So I was left alone for a little while longer. Then this guy from Faith4Living.com came up to me (very much the kindly Ned Flanders type), and greeted me, "Hello. A friend of mine, Amy, was crying over there, and she told me she wanted me to come over here and pray for you."
We shook hands, and I said, "I'm sorry to hear she's so upset. I just told her that I didn't want her to pray for me because to me that's wishing me to go to heaven, and the heaven she told me about sounded like a horrible place to be."
This all took the usual turns, but this guy, who seemed so calm in greeting, got the most agitated! His face was turning red, veins popping out all over his neck and face, and he was shaking saying some of the most outrageous things! Like, when presented with questions about Noah's Ark, said that every species of animal lived there on that continent at the time. They didn't have to travel across oceans to get to the ark.
"Kangaroos were in Iraq?!?!" I retorted.
And he tried to explain how some species of every animal was there on that side of the world, yet he also argued angrily against evolution with me too! It was crazy crazy.

He got so frustrated with me that he finally had to end it. I know he's going to email me. We exchanged emails addresses, and he was dying to show me some intro to some book where the guy who invented evolution said that there was no proof for it.

So I made Amy cry. And as they were leaving, Amy, looking sad but not crying, waved to me. I looked the same waving back to her.

 You just made my day. I'd

 You just made my day. I'd say I'm on my way, but I don't think I'd have been organized enough to debate that many people at once without some type of prior preparation at least.

stuntgibbon's picture

 Make sure to send that

 Make sure to send that girl a free Jesus dress-up magnet set.

Vastet's picture

Nice one man! The only time

Nice one man!
The only time I've been truly cornered into debating the subject in person was back in '99. I was working security for a TD Bank in Toronto. I don't remember how the debate started, it was probably due to answering a question though.
At any rate, a young priest and I had friendly discussion for a week or two every day when he came in to do his banking. About a month later he came in again, for the first time he wasn't wearing his priests outfit. He'd become a pantheist. After that, I started debating religion online. If it could work for one, it can work for many. And my confidence and capability to hold my own in debate with theists grew exponentially thereafter. I could take on the pope, Comfort, and Craig all at the same time now.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Bob, I've been living only a

Bob, I've been living only a few hours from you for years, and I could just kick myself that I haven't made it over there to meet you. I love this story.

Talking to people like this, I always marvel that they think YOU are the hater. When in my experience, atheism is motivated by GOOD things -- the desire for truth, for one thing, and freedom from the slavery of mindless religion.

Here are some flyers I designed a few years ago. If you know someone who can use 'em, feel free.

http://hankfox.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/atheist-flyer.pdf

staks's picture

Great post

Great Article Bob! The Heaven/Hell switch always sends them packing.

-Staks

Strafio's picture

Just wanted to say that I loved this story.

Just wanted to say that I loved this story.

Atheistextremist's picture

I'm sure that's the best

 

editorial I'm going to read all day. Nice work NormalBob - you're absolutely right, too.

Heaven is going to suck. The cardigans, the singing, the loneliness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck

Abu Lahab's picture

.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

NormalBob has tattoos?

 

You're going to burn (in a non-existent) hell!

Brian37's picture

Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

editorial I'm going to read all day. Nice work NormalBob - you're absolutely right, too.

Heaven is going to suck. The cardigans, the singing, the loneliness.

 

 

Whats wrong with thinking you are special? Heaven doesn't suck when you are the alpha male. It means you get to ignore the suffering of others.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog

Atheistextremist's picture

It is true that some

alpha males wear cardigans...and shorts with long socks.

iwbiek's picture

Atheistextremist wrote:alpha

Atheistextremist wrote:

alpha males wear cardigans...and shorts with long socks.

and penny loafers.  with pennies, of course.  bright, shiny pennies. 

oh, and the shorts MUST have pleats.  

and creases ironed in the legs.

otherwise, you're a fuckin' puss.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson

NoMoreCrazyPeople's picture

Great story, I had the

Great story, I had the exact same conversation with my girlfriends 2 dumb dumb Christian friends with much the same result.  I figured out the heaven is hell view a few years back, and since then I have not had a single Christian come up with an ethical explanation for how they will be happy while their loved ones are in such pain.  Not only have I not herd a good reply most I've ask have simply never thought of it that way before, most are instantly confused, if you just wait untill they get it you can literally see the ethical battle being had in their mind.  Its quite comical, it will always amaze me how people can believe things (like heaven is wonderful) without following the tought trail and where it leads , they just leave it at heaven is wonderful, and thats as far as it goes.  Its quite sad really.

BobSpence's picture

Not to mention that your if

Not to mention that your if mind had to completely rejigged so that sort of thing no longer bothered you, the way that guy described, in what sense would that consciousness be 'you'?

 

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology

Atheistextremist's picture

Yeah, good point

 

And we all know the world is built this way because the poor lonely lord of hosts not satisfied with the ministrations of his flocks of decidedly unaerodynamic-looking angels didn't want his new buddies to be robots. Defeats the whole purpose of free will in the first place.

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck

NoMoreCrazyPeople's picture

BobSpence1 wrote:Not to

BobSpence1 wrote:

Not to mention that your if mind had to completely rejigged so that sort of thing no longer bothered you, the way that guy described, in what sense would that consciousness be 'you'?

 

 

I've asked back that little doozy as well, the awser i got was literally "you just will be"  or  "god can do things we don't understand."  Along with various other primitive replies.

Atheistextremist's picture

Yeah, good point

 

And we all know the world is built this way because the poor lonely lord of hosts not satisfied with the ministrations of his flocks of decidedly unaerodynamic-looking angels didn't want his new buddies to be robots. Defeats the whole purpose of free will in the first place. Behold, I sit at the right hand of the father chomping soma tablets all day long.

 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck

Atheistextremist's picture

Fuck. I'm multiplying.

Fuck. I'm multiplying.

Deadly Fingergun's picture

I really like the idea of

I really like the idea of planting these little seeds of doubt. There's nothing like doubt to force a little rational thought.

Big E wrote:
Clown
Why, yes, I am!

ProzacDeathWish's picture

Deadly Fingergun wrote:I

Deadly Fingergun wrote:

I really like the idea of planting these little seeds of doubt. There's nothing like doubt to force a little rational thought.

   And those little seeds of doubt grow and grow, and in the words of Coach Madden ..."Boom!"...your religious faith falls away and you find yourself posting on an atheist message board.

iwbiek's picture

ProzacDeathWish wrote:And

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

And those little seeds of doubt grow and grow, and in the words of Coach Madden ..."Boom!"...your religious faith falls away and you find yourself posting on an atheist message board.

halle-lu-jah!

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson

Wonderist's picture

Awesome story NormalBob! I

Awesome story NormalBob! I love the part where the guy goes, "Well, I guess you won't get to go to heaven then," and you go, "Why would I want to go there? I love people!" That's such an awesome fucking comeback!

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Parallel's picture

Masterpiece!

Masterpiece!

butterbattle's picture

Wow, that's awesome.Normal

Wow, that's awesome.

Normal Bob Smith wrote:
So I made Amy cry. And as they were leaving, Amy, looking sad but not crying, waved to me. I looked the same waving back to her.

Hehe. I'm kind of speculating, but you seem to have planted some seeds of doubt in that poor girl. I wish I could've been there. 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare