Is hate real?

Vastet's picture

Cinematically, sure. But in real life? I don't know. So I ask you:

Have you ever hated something, or most especially someone?

I don't mean getting angry or disgusted or even furious, but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, you would?

I personally have never experienced this emotion, so I must question its existence.

I have been and can be a total asshole. But if you're willing to change, so am I. It's how I can out troll a troll. It's also how I can later become best friends with said troll.

Am I fucked up or lucky?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Cpt_pineapple's picture

Vastet wrote:. It's how I

Vastet wrote:
It's how I can out troll a troll.

 

Challenge accepted

 

 

Vastet's picture

A challenge implies there is

A challenge implies there is someone capable of challenging. Since there is not, there is no challenge.

Now get to the topic or gtfo. Smiling

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

ProzacDeathWish's picture

Vastet wrote:   ..... but

Vastet wrote:
  ..... but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, you would?

 

              Animal abusers disgust me.   Their deaths would not be quick.  If they are such a fan of cruelty then I would happily make them an utterly excruciating example of their favorite pass time.

 

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

Atheistextremist's picture

It's an interesting point

 

 

Perhaps hate is a folder label that describes a collection of mental and physical responses to an event or to a person. Maybe in this context, hate is the recognition in the brain that a particular something or some one causes these reactions. What could contribute to hate? Fear, obviously and primarily, and attendant anger or rage over a sense or loss of threat. Feelings of humiliation and anxiety. There must be more. 

  

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck

digitalbeachbum's picture

If you have every been angry

If you have every been angry or hated some thing, it is the same if you wanted to kill them or if you wanted to tell them they are idiots.

It's all the same.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

ProzacDeathWish's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:If you

digitalbeachbum wrote:

If you have every been angry or hated some thing, it is the same if you wanted to kill them or if you wanted to tell them they are idiots.

It's all the same.

 

   Not to me.  If I truly hate someone my hatred exists even if I am emotionally calm.  Anger is an emotion.  Hatred is an attitude.

 

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

tonyjeffers's picture

Yes

 

 

Vastet wrote:
, but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, you would?

 

If that is your definition of hate, then Yes it is very real. It is however controllable. I am living proof of that. If I was not able to control it, I would definitely be in prison or already executed for obliterating masses of people. 

But as my mind has grown I have learned that it is not a healthy state of mind. 

If you truly have never experienced it , then I would have to say you are lucky. Hate is not something easily controlled or overcome.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia

Vastet's picture

I'm all too well aquainted

I'm all too well aquainted with anger, even rage, but not hate.

I was tipsy when I wrote this discussion, and now that I'm sober I'm unsatisfied with the description of hate that I wrote. So I'm going to rephrase it.

I don't mean getting angry or disgusted or even furious, but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, even if it would severely hurt you or someone you care about in the process, you would?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

digitalbeachbum's picture

ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

If you have every been angry or hated some thing, it is the same if you wanted to kill them or if you wanted to tell them they are idiots.

It's all the same.

 

   Not to me.  If I truly hate someone my hatred exists even if I am emotionally calm.  Anger is an emotion.  Hatred is an attitude.

 

 

I know the definitions are slightly different and people use the words differently to convey their emotions, but...

If you are hateful of anything you are not emotionally calm. Sorry. This is untrue. If you were calm you wouldn't be hateful.

Both anger and hate are emotionally based; both are attitudes.

 

I am hateful towards this man because he broke my vase.

I am angry towards this man because he broke my vase.

 

Both of these reactions to the broken vase can be internal or external.

Both of these reactions come from your ego which can not undo the broken vase.

 

If I am hateful towards some one, I might hit them because I am angry.

If I am angry towards some one, I might hit them because I am hateful.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

digitalbeachbum's picture

Vastet wrote:I'm all too

Vastet wrote:
I'm all too well aquainted with anger, even rage, but not hate. I was tipsy when I wrote this discussion, and now that I'm sober I'm unsatisfied with the description of hate that I wrote. So I'm going to rephrase it. I don't mean getting angry or disgusted or even furious, but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, even if it would severely hurt you or someone you care about in the process, you would?

You use the terms for different reasons to describe how you feel, but in reality the hate and the anger all come from the same source. They are twins to each other. Not exactly alike but they sure do look exactly alike.

Also you are trying to associate "angry" with "disgusted" or "furious". You are trying to redefine the word so it doesn't equal hate.

You can be angry, hateful, disgusted or furious at some one and still want them to be obliterated from existence with just one thought.

The action of "obliterating a person with a thought" is merely the action you are willing to take if your ego is bruised. You might say, "oh I don't hate them enough"  but you could also say "oh I'm not angry enough at them".

Same thing. Don't kid yourself. It's your ego trying to justify the reaction. You make it sound like:

Being hateful towards someone is ok, you aren't angry at them.

Being angry towards someone is ok, you aren't hateful towards them.

doh

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

harleysportster's picture

ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

              Animal abusers disgust me.   Their deaths would not be quick.  If they are such a fan of cruelty then I would happily make them an utterly excruciating example of their favorite pass time.

 

I totally agree with you.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno

Vastet's picture

"Also you are trying to

"Also you are trying to associate "angry" with "disgusted" or "furious". "

No, I'm not. I'm doing exactly the opposite, making sure noone thinks those are hate. Because none of them are.
I must say your responses tell me that you too have never experienced hate.

"You can be angry, hateful, disgusted or furious at some one and still want them to be obliterated from existence with just one thought."

But not when there's a significant cost. Only hate will drive someone to consciously choose to seek and destroy something when it would have severe and immediate personal consequences.

Sure, there've been moments I might have obliterated something with a thought, but never at significant cost to myself.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

tonyjeffers's picture

Vastet wrote:"Also you are

Vastet wrote:
"Also you are trying to associate "angry" with "disgusted" or "furious". " No, I'm not. I'm doing exactly the opposite, making sure noone thinks those are hate. Because none of them are. I must say your responses tell me that you too have never experienced hate. "You can be angry, hateful, disgusted or furious at some one and still want them to be obliterated from existence with just one thought." But not when there's a significant cost. Only hate will drive someone to consciously choose to seek and destroy something when it would have severe and immediate personal consequences. Sure, there've been moments I might have obliterated something with a thought, but never at significant cost to myself.

 

Your re-definition of hate doesn't really change anything about hate itself. -only the level of sanity or personal integrity of the person.  The insane or very week minded will feed on their hate and act on it without the control a strong and healthy minded person has.   

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia

Vastet's picture

From how hate has been

From how hate has been described to me over the years, a suspension of sanity is a prerequisite.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Kapkao's picture

Vastet wrote:I'm all too

Vastet wrote:
I'm all too well aquainted with anger, even rage, but not hate. I was tipsy when I wrote this discussion, and now that I'm sober I'm unsatisfied with the description of hate that I wrote. So I'm going to rephrase it. I don't mean getting angry or disgusted or even furious, but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, even if it would severely hurt you or someone you care about in the process, you would?

There are some people I believe deserve nothing less than a protracted death, terminal-cancer esque death. However, there's a problem: the people I give a damn about are on a VERY small list!

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)

ProzacDeathWish's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:  If

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

 

 

If I am hateful towards some one, I might hit them because I am angry.

If I am angry towards some one, I might hit them because I am hateful.

 

 

      Your interchangeability regarding terms and definitions reminds me of The Theist and his definition(s) of "God". 

 So are racists ( who are commonly referred to as "hate groups" ) only supportive of racist ideology when they are emotionally agitated ?   ...and when they cease to be emotionally angry they cease to be racial haters ?   Anger is an emotion.  Hatred is an attitude. 

  Although the two can certainly overlap, anger and hatred are not always coupled as you seem to be asserting.  For example, if you persist in disagreeing with me I may become angry but I won't hate you.

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

Kapkao's picture

Vastet wrote:From how hate

Vastet wrote:
From how hate has been described to me over the years, a suspension of sanity is a prerequisite.

kk. rules me out. Of course, in a non-professional context, "sanity" can be very relative

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)

Sage_Override's picture

I've held someone in such

I've held someone in such contempt, and still do, that the mere thought of them confuses my mental processes until I can lobotomize them with a healthy dose of Pantera or Meshuggah, but I have no real hate for anyone.  I still dislike a lot of people, though.  Speaking of Meshuggah, Vastet, if you shaved your head, you'd look like the lead singer of that band.  Off topic, anyway...

 

Hate is one of those emotions that builds up through mental or physical interaction just like love.  So, I'm not sure if hate is one of those things that's learned, acquire, developed over years or if it's branded into our DNA as a source of other emotions we feel throughout our lives.  Some can control how they approach certain situations with a more rational outlook and some hold grudges to later use in their arsenal to lash out at people.  Still, some just get it out all at once and kill.

 

This topic reminds me of a documentary I saw the other day about the idea of an anger gene or as experts are calling it the "warrior gene" and if some people have it and others are just angry through experiences and it isn't linked to anything genetic.  It has Henry Rollins as the main focus and it's pretty interesting.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35cOqZI067E

 

 

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me

digitalbeachbum's picture

"Anger need not always be a

"Anger need not always be a strong emotion. Anger can be resentment towards other people It can be the rejection of certain groups of people who don't think or believe or speak as one does oneself. That's very common in the world. It can mean rejecting other people because they happen to have a different skin color or religion. Rejection of a group of people is the same as hatred.

There may be resentment of one's own lack of material opportunities. Maybe we blame someone for that or resent our lack of opportunity for self-assertion because others get in the way. That too is anger, and it's usually suppressed. One doesn't even admit it to oneself which has major repercussions unless the anger is changed into acceptance and to being at ease with oneself. Suppression creates inner turmoil, which makes it impossible to see anything clearly. One sees everything from the standpoint of that suppression, that resentment."

"Being Nobody Going Nowhere: Meditations on the Buddhist Path"

P72-73, Ayya Khema

Wisdom Books

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

ProzacDeathWish's picture

  Interesting Digital.  

                                            

 

                                                                                          This entire thread is making me angry.

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

digitalbeachbum's picture

ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Interesting Digital but getting back to your anger = hate equivalency,  I'm wondering if you interpret a mother who becomes angry with her child for staying out past curfew, does her anger mean she hates her own child ?  Or when I was getting ready to leave work and my car battery was dead and it made me angry....did does that mean that I hate my car ?

 

They are both the same thing. The word anger and the word hate have been used over the decades to signify different interpretations of the same emotion.

A parent, "hates" that the daughter didn't obey the rules. They "hate" that they disobeyed them. They might even "hate" that child or their disobedience.

Do you hear them say, "I'm so hateful because she didn't obey the rules"? OR Do you hear them say, "I am so angry she didn't obey the rules"?

It really boils down to semantics.

I hate work.

I am angry at work.

Who gets angry at work? Sure you can say, "I get angry while I am at work" but this has a completely different meaning.

What about, "I am hateful at work"? Huh? Doesn't make sense does it? It's the same problem with the sentence structure on the previous example.

They both mean the same thing, but people use them to express their selves differently.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

Beyond Saving's picture

digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Interesting Digital but getting back to your anger = hate equivalency,  I'm wondering if you interpret a mother who becomes angry with her child for staying out past curfew, does her anger mean she hates her own child ?  Or when I was getting ready to leave work and my car battery was dead and it made me angry....did does that mean that I hate my car ?

 

They are both the same thing. The word anger and the word hate have been used over the decades to signify different interpretations of the same emotion.

A parent, "hates" that the daughter didn't obey the rules. They "hate" that they disobeyed them. They might even "hate" that child or their disobedience.

Do you hear them say, "I'm so hateful because she didn't obey the rules"? OR Do you hear them say, "I am so angry she didn't obey the rules"?

It really boils down to semantics.

I hate work.

I am angry at work.

Who gets angry at work? Sure you can say, "I get angry while I am at work" but this has a completely different meaning.

What about, "I am hateful at work"? Huh? Doesn't make sense does it? It's the same problem with the sentence structure on the previous example.

They both mean the same thing, but people use them to express their selves differently.

 

Vastet has repeatedly made clear that he does not mean such loose uses of the word "hate". I'm sure you have said or heard someone say in your life something along the lines of "argh, I could kill you" or "oh man she is going to kill me when she finds out" when it was obviously apparent that the person saying it has absolutely no intention or ability to kill anyone. Instead they are using hyperbole to express their frustration. That doesn't change the fact that the word "kill" has a very distinct definition from frustration. Similarly, people often say "I hate x" when they don't really mean hate at least as far as the more narrow meaning Vastet is using. 

 

Since the OP and subsequent posts have made it clear which definition of hate is being used, I don't see a reason to obsess over it because people often use the word loosely. The english language is far from perfect and most words can have a variety of definitions depending on context.

 

@OP

I have never really hated a person. Generally when I dislike someone I simply remove them from my life completely and become apathetic towards them. However, I have known a person who was so consumed with hatred that he knowingly destroyed his entire life just to get revenge, so yeah I would say it is real. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

digitalbeachbum's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:Vastet

Beyond Saving wrote:

Vastet has repeatedly made clear that he does not mean such loose uses of the word "hate". I'm sure you have said or heard someone say in your life something along the lines of "argh, I could kill you" or "oh man she is going to kill me when she finds out" when it was obviously apparent that the person saying it has absolutely no intention or ability to kill anyone. Instead they are using hyperbole to express their frustration. That doesn't change the fact that the word "kill" has a very distinct definition from frustration. Similarly, people often say "I hate x" when they don't really mean hate at least as far as the more narrow meaning Vastet is using. 

Since the OP and subsequent posts have made it clear which definition of hate is being used, I don't see a reason to obsess over it because people often use the word loosely. The english language is far from perfect and most words can have a variety of definitions depending on context.

@OP

I have never really hated a person. Generally when I dislike someone I simply remove them from my life completely and become apathetic towards them. However, I have known a person who was so consumed with hatred that he knowingly destroyed his entire life just to get revenge, so yeah I would say it is real. 

I think I have failed to get my point across, let me try again:

vastet wrote:

 

Cinematically, sure. But in real life? I don't know. So I ask you:

Have you ever hated something, or most especially someone?

I don't mean getting angry or disgusted or even furious, but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, you would?

I personally have never experienced this emotion, so I must question its existence.

I have been and can be a total asshole. But if you're willing to change, so am I. It's how I can out troll a troll. It's also how I can later become best friends with said troll.

Am I fucked up or lucky?

Hate is a falsehood. It is brought on by the ego which develops over many, many years from outside stimuli. When we are born it is as if we have a clean slate. Sure this is getting in to the "environment vs genetics" debate but technically speaking we all start off in similar circumstances.

A baby grows and develops their ego. When the reach adulthood an unchecked ego will have all kinds of emotional dependencies. 

"I want this" " I don't want this" "I hate this smell" "I love this smell".

When we have things we don't want or don't get what we want, we suffer. The ego develops fear, hate, anger, ill-will, and more.

When we have things we want or we don't have things we don't want, then we have pleasure. The ego develops lust, happiness, love, excitement, etc.

All these emotions are bullshit. The are based on desires which are developed from dependencies.

They all have emotional baggage associated with them. That is why when we are "in love" but then get rejected, people react in a negative manner.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

ProzacDeathWish's picture

digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

.....That is why when we are "in love" but then get rejected, people react in a negative manner.

 

 

 

     If "ego" is the problem, ( a sense of self ) then we're all fucked.  So apparently, not only does "hate" have emotional baggage, so do emotions such as "love".   Perhaps we should all just allow our selves to lobotomized and be done with emotions once and for all   ...they're all just a bloody waste of time.  Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

digitalbeachbum's picture

ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

.....That is why when we are "in love" but then get rejected, people react in a negative manner.

  If "ego" is the problem, ( a sense of self ) then we're all fucked.  So apparently, not only does "hate" have emotional baggage, so do emotions such as "love".   Perhaps we should all just allow our selves to lobotomized and be done with emotions once and for all   ...they're all just a bloody waste of time.  Thanks for clearing that up.

I knew this would be a reply I would get.

Yes, from that point of view we are all fucked, but knowing is half the battle. There are plenty of people in this world who have figured out that game and worked at solving the problem of the ego.

I have been working on this "problem" for over ten years now and dang if it isn't one of the most difficult challenges I have faced. Every day is a battle of wits against myself, because I am my own worst enemy.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

Beyond Saving's picture

digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

.....That is why when we are "in love" but then get rejected, people react in a negative manner.

  If "ego" is the problem, ( a sense of self ) then we're all fucked.  So apparently, not only does "hate" have emotional baggage, so do emotions such as "love".   Perhaps we should all just allow our selves to lobotomized and be done with emotions once and for all   ...they're all just a bloody waste of time.  Thanks for clearing that up.

I knew this would be a reply I would get.

Yes, from that point of view we are all fucked, but knowing is half the battle. There are plenty of people in this world who have figured out that game and worked at solving the problem of the ego.

I have been working on this "problem" for over ten years now and dang if it isn't one of the most difficult challenges I have faced. Every day is a battle of wits against myself, because I am my own worst enemy.

 

 

Seems like a foolish waste of life to try to get rid of your ego. I doubt it is possible, but even if it were I don't think life would be worth living without ego. Without your ego, what are you? Experiencing emotions, both positive and negative, is one of the greatest parts of being alive and should be something embraced rather than shunned.

 

I couldn't imagine living a life without desires and working to fulfill them. The closest thing I can imagine is the old retired people I used to sell life insurance to who lived their lives sitting on a couch watching tv day in and day out, no goals, no desires, no dreams, nothing to do except sit around waiting to die. I found them to be extraordinarily depressing people to be around.

 

That will never be me, I'll be working to achieve some desire of the moment until the day I tip over dead. If I get old and run out of desires, I plan on becoming an addict of whatever cool boutique drugs exist at that time leave this life high as a kite.   

 

Sounds pretty miserable and pointless fighting against yourself everyday, but whatever floats your boat, don't let me stop you. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson

ProzacDeathWish's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote: I

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

I have been working on this "problem" for over ten years now and dang if it isn't one of the most difficult challenges I have faced. Every day is a battle of wits against myself, because I am my own worst enemy.

 

                                            

 

                    May I suggest acquiring a prescription for Thorazine.  In just a short time your sense of "self" will be completely neutered and the battle will be won.

 

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

Vastet's picture

Ok, I been drinking again,

Ok, I been drinking again, so apologies in advance if I say something stupid/inflamatory (in the case I say something I don't mean).

Kapkao wrote:

Vastet wrote:
From how hate has been described to me over the years, a suspension of sanity is a prerequisite.

kk. rules me out. Of course, in a non-professional context, "sanity" can be very relative

I think its relative EVEN IF speaking in a professional context. But that's another subject I'm in no condition to start.

I ask you, specifically, I dunno why exactly. Anyway, have you ever intentionally suspended your sanity? Beyond what is required to enjoy the average film I mean.
Regardless of the insults we throw at each other, I quite like and am interested by you. So maybe that's why I am singling you out.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Vastet's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:@OP I

Beyond Saving wrote:
@OP

I have never really hated a person. Generally when I dislike someone I simply remove them from my life completely and become apathetic towards them. However, I have known a person who was so consumed with hatred that he knowingly destroyed his entire life just to get revenge, so yeah I would say it is real. 

I don't wish to upset settled issues, nor provoke new ones, but if you could give some details without potentially increasing the damage I'd very much appreciate it.
I must say, in part from the way you respond to Brian in general, I did anticipate that you and I shared this trait.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Vastet's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:Hate

digitalbeachbum wrote:
Hate is a falsehood. It is brought...

So, if I understand what you're saying, noone actually feels hate, hate is just anger magnified beyond control? And anger is merely a response to a perceived injustice?

I'm only asking for clarification purposes, not to argue your points.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

Vastet's picture

ProzacDeathWish wrote:Vastet

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Vastet wrote:
  ..... but real HATE. As in, if you could obliterate its existence with a thought, you would?

 

              Animal abusers disgust me.   Their deaths would not be quick.  If they are such a fan of cruelty then I would happily make them an utterly excruciating example of their favorite pass time.

 

 

 

 

I should have responded to this sooner, but I had to let it sit in my head for a bit. Apolgies.

Question: If you had to sacrfice yourself in order to END, FOREVER, animal cruelty, would you?
What if the price was your whole family?
And what if the price was all humanity?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

digitalbeachbum's picture

Beyond Saving wrote:Seems

Beyond Saving wrote:

Seems like a foolish waste of life to try to get rid of your ego. I doubt it is possible, but even if it were I don't think life would be worth living without ego. Without your ego, what are you? Experiencing emotions, both positive and negative, is one of the greatest parts of being alive and should be something embraced rather than shunned.

I couldn't imagine living a life without desires and working to fulfill them. The closest thing I can imagine is the old retired people I used to sell life insurance to who lived their lives sitting on a couch watching tv day in and day out, no goals, no desires, no dreams, nothing to do except sit around waiting to die. I found them to be extraordinarily depressing people to be around.

That will never be me, I'll be working to achieve some desire of the moment until the day I tip over dead. If I get old and run out of desires, I plan on becoming an addict of whatever cool boutique drugs exist at that time leave this life high as a kite.   

Sounds pretty miserable and pointless fighting against yourself everyday, but whatever floats your boat, don't let me stop you. 

It isn't a waste of time for me since I believe that this life is a complete illusion I am attempting to train myself to be better after my body dies. Sure, I know what many of you are going to say to me, but while "you other atheists" think this is the end, lights out, good bye, I believe it isn't the end and that this life is a complete illusion where the ego thrives. It can only exist here.

The issue with desires are the emotional attachment to them. Have you ever wanted any thing so bad and you couldn't get it? Get frustrated? Angry? Sad? That's the problem. That's what I'm trying to cure myself of; I don't want those desires with that emotional baggage.

I believe you should do what ever you want provided you aren't hurting others. It's their ride too and they paid to get on. So don't ruin the ride for them also.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

digitalbeachbum's picture

ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

I have been working on this "problem" for over ten years now and dang if it isn't one of the most difficult challenges I have faced. Every day is a battle of wits against myself, because I am my own worst enemy.

 

                                        

 May I suggest acquiring a prescription for Thorazine.  In just a short time your sense of "self" will be completely neutered and the battle will be won.

 

I've done a ton of drugs in my life. I've drank all of Europe and Russia's vodka. I'm done with drugs. I prefer being awake when I make mistakes.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

digitalbeachbum's picture

Vastet wrote:digitalbeachbum

Vastet wrote:
digitalbeachbum wrote:
Hate is a falsehood. It is brought...
So, if I understand what you're saying, noone actually feels hate, hate is just anger magnified beyond control? And anger is merely a response to a perceived injustice? I'm only asking for clarification purposes, not to argue your points.

No. Every one feels those emotions, but the reasons for them existing is bullshit. It's a lie we tell ourselves.

When we "hate" it is because there is something we can't have or something we have but do not want.

People hate religion for example. The blow up innocent people to provoke fear. They have no regard for anyone but their own goal. This goal has been set by their ego and they will never attain it, but they will die trying or later in life after they have had a few successful attempts but with many failures, they will realize that every thing they did then was because "that's the way things where" and they justify it to make theirselves feel better.

Ego is a terrible thing. It is the root of all suffering.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

Vastet's picture

Ok, so your view is that all

Ok, so your view is that all emotion is derived from ego?

Please forgive me if I'm sounding stupid, but booze does that.

Unfortunately it's also the way my control over my emotion slips, so I can understand some emotionally charged things better.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.

ProzacDeathWish's picture

Vastet

Vastet wrote:

 

 

 

 

 Question: If you had to sacrfice yourself in order to END, FOREVER, animal cruelty, would you?

 

    Yes, I would be tempted to answer in the affirmative. 

 

Vastet wrote:
What if the price was your whole family?

 

  No, that would have to be their decision.

 

Vastet wrote:
And what if the price was all humanity?

 

    Well, that would certainly solve the problem of animal cruelty once and for all.

 

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

ProzacDeathWish's picture

digitalbeachbum wrote:Ego is

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Ego is a terrible thing. It is the root of all suffering.

 

                                                                         

 

                                                    No, to exist is the root of all suffering.  That's why I'm an antinatalist.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered by an occasional assassination." Voltaire ( 1694-1778 )

digitalbeachbum's picture

Vastet wrote:Ok, so your

Vastet wrote:
Ok, so your view is that all emotion is derived from ego? Please forgive me if I'm sounding stupid, but booze does that. Unfortunately it's also the way my control over my emotion slips, so I can understand some emotionally charged things better.

No problem.

Here is a link for you to review. It explains it much bettr than I could ever do on my own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skandha

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams

Kapkao's picture

minor revision: I'm guessing

minor revision: I'm guessing "hate" is a fuck ton of relative. Meaning... it's strictly what you make of it.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)

digitalbeachbum's picture

Kapkao wrote:minor revision:

Kapkao wrote:

minor revision: I'm guessing "hate" is a fuck ton of relative. Meaning... it's strictly what you make of it.

I agree. Each person has their own different views on it, but I think the more interesting view is how people view your hate from the outside.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams