Gandhi VS God on Morality

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Gandhi VS God

1890-1948 ............................................................................... timeless

On Morality

[size=14]Welcome ladies and gentleman to what promises to be one of the most cataclysmic encounters we've ever had on Celebrity Deathmatch - Gandi vs God.

And now Johnny Gomez for the breakdown of the match:

Well, at first glance Nick, you'd figure that this contest would be rather one sided: We have in one corner, a meek, humble man who would be the first to concede that he is a sinner. In the other corner, we have an omniscient, omnibenevolent super deity, who's reportedly gone undefeated in just about any sort of contest you could contemplate, since the dawn of time. (Well, he has one draw, if you count the old testament account of god's wrestling match with Jacob...)

But, let's at least take a look at what each has is on record for saying, regarding some very important moral matters, before deciding. Then we'll will ask Dr. Lawrence Kohlberg, eminent psychologist and creator of one of the most widely relied upon theories of moral reasoning, to choose the winner

Let's get it on!

On Honesty:

"The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee." - I Kings 22:23

VS

Use truth as your anvil, nonviolence as your hammer and anything that does not stand the test when it is brought to the anvil of truth and hammered with nonviolence, reject it.

On Physical Threats and Coercision

"But God will shatter the heads of his enemies..." - Psalms 68:21

VS

One who uses coercion is guilty of deliberate violence. Coercion is inhuman. The more efficient a force is the more silent and the more subtle it is.

On the Use of Physical Force as a Means of Justice

Slay and utterly destroy after them, says the Lord, and do all that I have commanded you.
- Jeremiah 50:21

"Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger...Whoever is found will be thrust through and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished." - Isaiah 13:9, 13:15

"I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with your flowing blood..." Ezekiel 32:5

'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women...'" - Ezekiel 9:5

Complaint from the crowd: All of this is Old testament!

Response from Mills Lane:

I'll allow it!

VS

Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will. Love is the subtlest force in the world. Civil disobedience means capacity for unlimited suffering without the intoxicating excitement of killing. Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and done by unarmed nations in the face of odds.

Satyagraha has been designed as an effective substitute for violence. Satyagraha and civil disobedience and fasts have nothing in common with the use of force, veiled or open. The force of nonviolence is infinitely more wonderful and subtle and powerful than the use of violence.

On Women and Equality

For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man." - 1 Corinthians, 11:8

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 14:34

"Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord." - Ephesians 5:22

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14

VS

There is no occasion for women to consider themselves subordinate or inferior to man. Woman is the companion of man, gifted with equal mental capacity.

On Slavery

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your bretheren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness." - Leviticus 25:44

VS

No society can possibly be built on a denial of individual freedom.

On Respect Towards All Life

And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. - Genesis 9:2

VS

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. Genesis 6:7

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated...I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man."

Now, to decide our winner, Dr. Lawrence Kohlberg

Greetings Web denziens and pursuers of the truth. Here is my decision, based upon my theory of moral reasoning:

My (Kohlberg's) classification can be outlined in the following manner:

LEVEL - - - - - STAGE - - - - SOCIAL ORIENTATION

Pre-conventional

1 - - Obedience and Punishment: "Only the consequences matter."
2 - - Instrumentalism, and Exchange: "I'm looking out for #1"

Conventional

3 - - Interpersonal Concordance: "I want everyone to see me as a good person"
4 - - Law and Order: "We live in a world of rules that we make. We should follow them."

Post-conventional

5 - - Social Contract: "Yes we live in a world of rules, but rules that we make are rules that we can change."
6 - - Principled Conscience: "Rules can also be broken, and should be broken, even to our own detriment, if these rules bring harm to others."

God, is operating on the first level of moral thinking - the sort of moral reasoning usually employed by pre-school children. In the first stage of this level, people behave according to socially acceptable norms because they are told to do so by some authority figure (e.g., parent or teacher) - in other words, might makes right. The fact that you have power over another justifies your actions morally. This concept is better known as 'obedience', and it isn an obedience compelled by the threat of punishment. It is sheer prudence that one ought to obey, to avoid punishment.

The second stage of the preconventional level is characterized by a view that right behavior means acting in one's own best interests.

The second level of moral thinking is typical of the morality generally found in society, hence the name "conventional." The first stage of this level (stage 3) is characterized by an attitude which seeks to do what will gain the approval of others. The second stage in this level is oriented to abiding by the law and responding to the obligations of duty.

The third level of moral thinking is one that I (Kohlberg) feel is not reached by the majority of adults. Its first stage (stage 5) is an understanding of social mutuality and a genuine interest in the welfare of others. The last stage (stage 6) is based on respect for universal principle and the demands of individual conscience. It is this stage that Mr. Gandhi , is operating on.

To learn more about Gandhi try this website:

http://www.cbu.edu/Gandhi

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.

Gandhi vs Bible: no one is exempt from the poison of religion

Hi   Todangst,

    I have a lot of respect for Gandhi, especially because I am an Indian. For all his greatness he had but one flaw and a serious one. That is the belief in God.  Here is a link that will tell you what religion can do to even a genius like Gandhi.

http://rrkelkar.wordpress.com/2007/07/28/gods-role-in-natural-disasters/

Gandhi said that natural disasters were a result of sins.  "Yada mooshika mooshika" (Once a mouse always a mouse) --- a sanskrit saying  (probably the Panchatantra). Once a person is religious he behaves like the rest of them.

This was not the only aspect of his belief. His personal life was a mess as he tried to impose his beliefs on the rest of his family.

 PS..... Sorry that I changed the title to what seemed to me a more appropriate one.

Regards

Ask the right questions and you will find your answers in them....(by me:=)). Einstien also said something like that.