I've been thinking. (Mod edit - moved to Science)

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I've been thinking. (Mod edit - moved to Science)

What else could physics show? For years things were held to be true in physics, but then scrapped. Common knowledge of the time was disgarded due to superiour understanding.

 

It was once believed that space-time wasn't physical. It is now know that it is.

It was once beleived that protons are the basic building blocks of matter. We now know of the sub-atomic particles.

 

What else do you think physics will lead us. Especially with the LHC coming on line (Hopefully soon). Will the theory of everything finally come to?

 

No real point, just pondering Undecided

 


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Pineapple, you want this

Pineapple, you want this moved to the science forum? It seems more appropriate there.


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BGH wrote: Pineapple, you

BGH wrote:
Pineapple, you want this moved to the science forum? It seems more appropriate there.

 

Oh, yeah. I posted in the A vs T out of force of habit LOL.

 


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Hopefully we will get

Hopefully we will get closer to a 'Theory Of Everything', Higgs Bozon understanding and closer to detecting/observing 'gravitons' or gravity 'particles'.

 


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If they fine tune table-top

If they fine tune table-top accelerators, then we may be able to go to insane energies and develop a TOE.

My  pondering arose when I realized when physicists found something important, they were looking for something else. Laughing


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

If they fine tune table-top accelerators, then we may be able to go to insane energies and develop a TOE.

My pondering arose when I realized when physicists found something important, they were looking for something else. Laughing

I read an article today by Neil Degrasse Tyson where he describes the early years with Hubble's flawed mirrors. He said that the scientists did not want three years to go to waste while they engineered a repair mission. A new software suite was written to help decipher the horribly blurred images we were getting back, medical researchers got a whiff of the new software and thought it might be useful in mammogram imaging. Now countless women can attribute early detection to a flaw in Hubble's mirrors. It was a very interesting article on space exploration.

Article here:

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2007/edition_08-05-2007/Space


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Bump.

Bump.


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I dont know how much we want

I dont know how much we want to speculate on how physics will develop, because it's often antithetical to intuition.

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
George Orwell.


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My guess is that they'll

My guess is that they'll find some kind of barely-there particle that is actually dark matter.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: It

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

It was once believed that space-time wasn't physical. It is now know that it is.

What is a space-time object?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Cpt_pineapple

AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

It was once believed that space-time wasn't physical. It is now know that it is.

What is a space-time object?

 

This:

 

 

 

 

In the words of Michio Kaku 'Gravity doesn't pull, space pushes.' 


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That is a drawing

That is a drawing


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AiiA wrote: That is a

AiiA wrote:
That is a drawing

 

More of an illistration of how massive objects bend space.

 

Here:

 

See that ring? That dark matter warping space. 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

AiiA wrote:
That is a drawing

 

More of an illistration of how massive objects bend space.

 

Here:

 

See that ring? That dark matter warping space.

Demonstrating gravity. Gravity is a force of attraction.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Cpt_pineapple

AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

AiiA wrote:
That is a drawing

 

More of an illistration of how massive objects bend space.

 

Here:

 

See that ring? That dark matter warping space.

Demonstrating gravity.

 

gravity is cause by the curvature of space

 

Once again, Michio Kaku: 'Gravity doesn't pull, space pushes.'

 

I mentioned table top accelerators, they work by pulling space-time from underneath the object, much like pulling a carpet to get the table on the carpet to move. Space moves at 10^50m/s, so it can achieve great speds at short distances hence the 'table-top' part.


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

gravity is cause by the curvature of space

Proof?

 

Quote:
Once again, Michio Kaku: 'Gravity doesn't pull, space pushes.'
Where is his proof of this?

 

Quote:
I mentioned table top accelerators, they work by pulling space-time from underneath the object, much like pulling a carpet to get the table on the carpet to move. Space moves at 10^50m/s, so it can achieve great speds at short distances hence the 'table-top' part.

Where's the proof spacetime is material?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Cpt_pineapple

AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

gravity is cause by the curvature of space

Proof?

 

 

Special relatvity. 'The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference.'  This shows that light is tied in with space. For example, if you were flying in a space ship at 99% speed of light and shot a laser beam outside the window, you would measure the beam to be 3x10^8m/s. If I was watching you and staying still I would also meaure that light to be 3x10^8m/s. So c(The speed of light) is tied in to space.

 

▲t=t/SQRT(1-v^2/c^2) 

 This is the formula for time dilation (Which has been experimentally verified).  So space can warp light around a massive object. (Since they are linked)

 

If Space curves, light curves as shown on the picture I posted previously. 

 

 

Quote:

Quote:
Once again, Michio Kaku: 'Gravity doesn't pull, space pushes.'

 

I mentioned table top accelerators, they work by pulling space-time from underneath the object, much like pulling a carpet to get the table on the carpet to move. Space moves at 10^50m/s, so it can achieve great speds at short distances hence the 'table-top' part.

Where's the proof spacetime is material?

 See above. I could also go into intial expansion theory (The space travelling at 10^50m/s part), but my proof above is enough. 

If you don't understand something, ask. I am studying physics.


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Oh, and space-time material

Oh, and space-time material is also dectable via gravity waves. In an event such as a super-nova, the space-time fabric will warp and ripple, much like taking a bowling ball off a mattress, the matress will return to it's original (level) state and hence send a ripple since the bowling ball compressed the matress.

 

We can launch a satalite system of lasers to detect the force of these gravity waves.

 

[edit]

link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISA_%28astronomy%29

 [/edit


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bump

bump


Iruka Naminori
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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

What else do you think physics will lead us. Especially with the LHC coming on line (Hopefully soon). Will the theory of everything finally come to? 

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "the LHC"?

Did a quick google.  Google is your friend. Eye-wink

Large Hadron Collider

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Iruka Naminori

Iruka Naminori wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

What else do you think physics will lead us. Especially with the LHC coming on line (Hopefully soon). Will the theory of everything finally come to?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "the LHC"?

Did a quick google. Google is your friend. Eye-wink

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider]Large Hadron Collider[/url].

 

It is a particle accelator capable of high energies, and hence is the best bet to detect the Higgs Boson (Since it's so heavy). However, this requires a massive amount of space, so the table top accelerators could be more practicle, since they require only limited amount of space, since they move space from underneath the object, and can get it up to speeds faster. 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: Iruka

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Iruka Naminori wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

 

What else do you think physics will lead us. Especially with the LHC coming on line (Hopefully soon). Will the theory of everything finally come to?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "the LHC"?

Did a quick google. Google is your friend. Eye-wink

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider]Large Hadron Collider[/url].

 

It is a particle accelator capable of high energies, and hence is the best bet to detect the Higgs Boson (Since it's so heavy). However, this requires a massive amount of space, so the table top accelerators could be more practicle, since they require only limited amount of space, since they move space from underneath the object, and can get it up to speeds faster.

Very cool.  I wish I could say I knew how cool, but my knowledge of physics is very limited...D'OH!  Whenever a conversation about physics (or something else outside my areas of study) is launched I wish I had unlimited time and unlimited brain power to learn, learn, learn as much as I possibly can.  

There is too much knowledge, too much that is unknown and far too little time. Sticking out tongue

 

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Cpt_pineapple wrote: AiiA

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:


gravity is cause by the curvature of space
Proof?





Special relatvity. 'The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference.' This shows that light is tied in with space. For example, if you were flying in a space ship at 99% speed of light and shot a laser beam outside the window, you would measure the beam to be 3x10^8m/s. If I was watching you and staying still I would also meaure that light to be 3x10^8m/s. So c(The speed of light) is tied in to space.



?t=t/SQRT(1-v^2/c^2)

This is the formula for time dilation (Which has been experimentally verified). So space can warp light around a massive object. (Since they are linked)


If Space curves, light curves as shown on the picture I posted previously.


What causes space to curve?

Quote:
Quote:
Once again, Michio Kaku: 'Gravity doesn't pull, space pushes.'



I mentioned table top accelerators, they work by pulling space-time from underneath the object, much like pulling a carpet to get the table on the carpet to move. Space moves at 10^50m/s, so it can achieve great speds at short distances hence the 'table-top' part.

Quote:
Where's the proof spacetime is material?


See above. I could also go into intial expansion theory (The space travelling at 10^50m/s part), but my proof above is enough.

If you don't understand something, ask. I am studying physics.
Is there anything in the universe that is NOT physical material?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Cpt_pineapple

AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:


gravity is cause by the curvature of space
Proof?





Special relatvity. 'The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference.' This shows that light is tied in with space. For example, if you were flying in a space ship at 99% speed of light and shot a laser beam outside the window, you would measure the beam to be 3x10^8m/s. If I was watching you and staying still I would also meaure that light to be 3x10^8m/s. So c(The speed of light) is tied in to space.



?t=t/SQRT(1-v^2/c^2)

This is the formula for time dilation (Which has been experimentally verified). So space can warp light around a massive object. (Since they are linked)


If Space curves, light curves as shown on the picture I posted previously.


What causes space to curve?

Did I not just post pictures showing how matter curves space?

 

The answer is matter. Read my post about gravitational waves and the link about L.I.S.A. While you're at it read about gravitational waves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_waves

In Einstein's theory of general relativity, the force of gravity is due to curvature of spacetime. This curvature is caused by the presence of massive objects. Roughly speaking, the more massive the object is, the greater the curvature it causes, and hence the more intense the gravity. As massive objects move around in spacetime, the curvature will change. If the objects move around in the right way, ripples in spacetime can spread outward like ripples on the surface of a pond. These ripples are gravitational waves.

 

 

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Once again, Michio Kaku: 'Gravity doesn't pull, space pushes.'



I mentioned table top accelerators, they work by pulling space-time from underneath the object, much like pulling a carpet to get the table on the carpet to move. Space moves at 10^50m/s, so it can achieve great speds at short distances hence the 'table-top' part.

Quote:
Where's the proof spacetime is material?


See above. I could also go into intial expansion theory (The space travelling at 10^50m/s part), but my proof above is enough.

If you don't understand something, ask. I am studying physics.
Is there anything in the universe that is NOT physical material?

No. Everything is either physical or a measure of something physical (temperature is a measure of energy etc...) 


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Quote:
Is there anything in the universe that is NOT physical material?


No. Everything is either physical or a measure of something physical
Into which category do you put your god?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: Once

Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Once again, Michio Kaku: 'Gravity doesn't pull, space pushes.'
If space is pushing, why does the gravitational force increase with mass?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Cpt_pineapple

AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Quote:
Is there anything in the universe that is NOT physical material?


No. Everything is either physical or a measure of something physical
Into which category do you put your god?

 

 This category

 

Quote:

If space is pushing, why does the gravitational force increase with mass?

 

 Because the more massive the object, the more it warps space, so the more pushing it does.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Cpt_pineapple wrote:


AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Quote:
Is there anything in the universe that is NOT physical material?


No. Everything is either physical or a measure of something physical
Into which category do you put your god?


 

This category
How did you come to this conclusion?

 

Quote:


Because the more massive the object, the more it warps space, so the more pushing it does.
It's just is equally conclusive that the mass pulls

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Cpt_pineapple

AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:


AiiA wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:
Quote:
Is there anything in the universe that is NOT physical material?


No. Everything is either physical or a measure of something physical
Into which category do you put your god?




This category
How did you come to this conclusion?

 

By studing physics and reading 'The God Theory'



Quote:
Quote:


Because the more massive the object, the more it warps space, so the more pushing it does.
It's just is equally conclusive that the mass pulls

That's what Newton first thought since he didn't have the resources to know that it's space.  

Photons have zero mass, Newton's formula was F=GMm/r^2. It is now shown that photons shift when entering a gravitational field. 

With gravitational waves/lensing it has come to the conclusion that it is space-time.


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Cpt_pineapple wrote: By

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

By studing physics and reading 'The God Theory'
Haisch's conjecture that the universe has a conscious is ridiculous. There is no evidence to support this idea. Isn't his proposal a "Watchmaker argument"? I think he has been infected with the presupposition disease during childhood.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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If you would be so good as

If you would be so good as to excuse my ignorance, my education is in the Humanities and Law.  I have recently read A Brief History of Time and The Elegant Universe.  AiiA, I just want to be certain that we aren't eschewing the material I just read, right? 

I will be seriously pissed if I spent all this time working on these concepts and they've changed already.  My father is one of the top Chaoticians in the country, and I've given up trying to follow his thoughts.  Is physics out the door, too?

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

That's what Newton first thought since he didn't have the resources to know that it's space. 

Photons have zero mass, Newton's formula was F=GMm/r^2.

Actually isn't this Cavendish's formula?

 

Quote:
It is now shown that photons shift when entering a gravitational field. 

With gravitational waves/lensing it has come to the conclusion that it is space-time.

"Space pushing" could mean the universe is not expanding, but instead perhaps everything in the universe is actually being compressed.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Nero wrote: I will be

Nero wrote:

I will be seriously pissed if I spent all this time working on these concepts and they've changed already. 

Which concepts?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: Nero wrote: I

AiiA wrote:
Nero wrote:

I will be seriously pissed if I spent all this time working on these concepts and they've changed already. 

Which concepts?

*sigh* Nevermind.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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Quote: Haisch's conjecture

Quote:

Haisch's conjecture that the universe has a conscious is ridiculous. There is no evidence to support this idea. Isn't his proposal a "Watchmaker argument"? I think he has been infected with the presupposition disease during childhood.

Did you read my topic? I show why I think it's possible.

As for Haisch being 'infected', he went into priest training, but I don't think he's Christian. He gave it up to study astrophysics.

 

Quote:

Actually isn't this Cavendish's formula?

I don't think so.  Newton came up with the inverse square law (The 1/r^2 part), but perhaps Cavendish derived the actual formula.  

 

Quote:

 "Space pushing" could mean the universe is not expanding, but instead perhaps everything in the universe is actually being compressed.

No, space only pushes when an massive object is warping it. 

 

 

Nero wrote:

I will be seriously pissed if I spent all this time working on these concepts and they've changed already.  My father is one of the top Chaoticians in the country, and I've given up trying to follow his thoughts.  Is physics out the door, too?

 

You may also want to read 'Parallel Worlds' by Michio Kaku

 


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:


Quote:


Haisch's conjecture that the universe has a conscious is ridiculous. There is no evidence to support this idea. Isn't his proposal a "Watchmaker argument"? I think he has been infected with the presupposition disease during childhood.



Did you read my topic? I show why I think it's possible.
I only scanned it, but now I've read your OP and it looks like you're begging the question, which is what I picked up from my initial scan.

Quote:
As for Haisch being 'infected', he went into priest training, but I don't think he's Christian.
Which indicates he had/has a tendency to believe in things based on unsubstantiated assumptions.
Quote:
He gave it up to study astrophysics.
If he carried the theist belief to the point of studying for the priesthood, it's possible he cannot get rid of it completely and injects the mysticism element into astrophysics. He has no evidence to show that the universe has a consciousness.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:


Quote:


"Space pushing" could mean the universe is not expanding, but instead perhaps everything in the universe is actually being compressed.



No, space only pushes when an massive object is warping it.
But the warping is not only approximate; the warping will extend to a point halfway (only if the masses are exactly equal) between 2 masses no matter how much space is seperating them. Don't the farthest galaxies have an gravitational pull on each other, even if it is almost immeasurable? Certainly, then, all the space between them will be warped also and pushing. If space is expanding, where is it going?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote: But the warping

AiiA wrote:
But the warping is not only approximate; the warping will extend to a point halfway (only if the masses are exactly equal) between 2 masses no matter how much space is seperating them. Don't the farthest galaxies have an gravitational pull on each other, even if it is almost immeasurable?Certainly, then, all the space between them will be warped also and pushing.

 To best illustrate this take a soft matress and place two bowling balls side by side and maybe you may be able to see it.

That said, it is slightly deceptive. The 3-D bowling ball is warping a 2-D mattress. Gravity is caused by warps in 3-D 

 

 

Quote:
If space is expanding, where is it going?

 

Good question. As Hawkins says 'Space is finite but boundless'

There are some theories, but I don't know.