Circumcision and HIV

Voided
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Circumcision and HIV

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030262

News Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/background_briefings/aids/434880.stm

This is not really that new, but I heard about on the news today and I have my own ideas on it. Their basic idea is that circumcision reduces the chance of HIV. My idea is to consider why people are getting circumcised to begin with. Is this a reflection of the circumcision or sexual behavior?



School Orders It: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6355447.stm

This concerns me greatly. The school is basically telling parents to circumcise their children. First how the hell is a school finding out kids are circumcised. Second when has "everyone else is doing" been a good reason to do something. The school said they sent the kids home for social reasons.



Both of these stories come out of africa so it isn't like american laws or norms apply.


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The end of the first link

The end of the first link should be "stm" instead of "st". Hence, the link gives an Error 404.

I'd be curious to find out how theists feel about circumcision. If they're "for" it, does that mean their god didn't create them correctly and they had to be corrected?

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Quote:First how the hell

Quote:
First how the hell is a school finding out kids are circumcised.

I suppose Kenyans like to rock out with their - well, you know...


LeftofLarry
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This is a job for...SILKY

This is a job for...SILKY SHREW!!!!


Vastet
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Q: Voiderest wrote: First

Q:

Voiderest wrote:
First how the hell is a school finding out kids are circumcised.

A:

Voiderest wrote:
Both of these stories come out of africa so it isn't like american laws or norms apply.

Fact is that sexuality isn't nearly as touchy a subject elsewhere like it is in the US. There are a hundred different possibilities for how the school knew.

Voiderest wrote:

Second when has "everyone else is doing" been a good reason to do something. The school said they sent the kids home for social reasons. Both of these stories come out of africa so it isn't like american laws or norms apply.

It's an understandable scenario in this situation. The culture has been traumatized by aids. There isn't a single person in Africa who doesn't know at least one other person who has it. If something is proven to lower the risks of recieving a social and biological stigma, then not using that something becomes a cultural concern. If being circumcized is healthier than not being circumcized, it stands to reason that c'd kids will bully non-c'd kids as the school claimed. You have to understand the context before you can criticize the reaction.

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interrsting topic voide. I

interrsting topic voide. I read about those studies and i think they also controlled for sexual behaviors in it. I am not 100% sure, but i think the fact is pretty much established that circumsision plays a role in itself in the transmission of stds.

If it's the case, then it opens an interresting moral discussion of Kantian vs Utilitarian morals. Can you decide for your children to mutilate their body to reduce a chance of a lethal disease. The challenge of Ends vs Means is recurrent in Human morals, and i am not sure it has ever been resolved.

Of course, what you could answer is that a boy could decide by himself to become circumsized at the age he can have sex. But that also poses the issue of epidemies, since your becoming sick threatens others. Epidemies always challenge the question of individual rights, and if those studeis are right, it is nothing more than another challenge to those moral issues.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


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yes it does raise moral

yes it does raise moral questions. I personally am agiants male genital mutalation. There have actually been bills introduced in state senates to ban the practice of circumcision, the logic of it is some thing like well female circumcision is ilegal why don't men have equal protection under the law?

 

I think that the studies done (from what I have read thus far) are inconclusive whne it comes to the question of risk of STD's there needs to be more studies done. but until they can make a certain link I am agianst circumcision. If a male wants to do it when he is of age then more power to him but why should a parent have the power over their son's dick when it comes to this unnesesary procedure??

 

 

Just some food for thought.

 

 


laguna117
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I agree on your whole

I agree on your whole point. The only thing is that we already accept to violate individual rights to a certain extent to control pandemies, since the consequences are not only to yourself but to potentially a great amount of people.

So i have the same feeling as you, but i know the answer is not simple.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


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The thing about this is that

The thing about this is that it isn't like no foreskin means no hiv and there are other ways to slow/stop the spread. Really a study only goes so far and this doesn't seem to be that regulated.

I suppose the biggest problem with this is that no experiments can be done with people. Here is a thought. How well do Africans tend to clean up afterwards?


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Circumstision is complete

Circumstision is complete bullshit and should be sued. There is no advantage, no reason for circumsticion, whatsoever.


LunarShadow
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this is the conclusion I

this is the conclusion I have come to as well ollj based on what little information we have on the scientific end (regarding the risk of STD's ad such) IMHO it is just another pointless ritual (in this case a brutal one) that religion has thrust upon us. If you do some research on the issue you will find that there are some organizations fighting to end this practice one that comes to mind is the MGM bill site it can be found here http://www.mgmbill.org/index.htm It is our choice to get involved. I have sent many letters urging my representatives to review this bill and sponsor it  but it has yet to happen. the more voices that are heard the more our reps will listen.


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Well, there's evidence that

Well, there's evidence that points both ways. Even if it's true that circumsision helps to prevent aids (which I doubt it does, I can see no reason why it would except bizzaro land magic) a condom would be far more effective. A personal relationship with Jesus isn't going to help either. I dare any African missionary to marry an AIDS carrier and see if their God keeps them safe, circumsised or no.


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Indeed mustard that should

Indeed mustard that should be the new Mission program Marry an African AIDS patient Laughing out loud

 

I wonder how long that program would last before it came to an abrupt conclusion.