VIRGIN BIRTHS ARE REAL... REALLY...

LeftofLarry
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VIRGIN BIRTHS ARE REAL... REALLY...

It's a phenomenon called parthenogenesis. A process in which eggs develop as embryos without male sperm or fertilization.

This type of asexual reprodcution occurs throught the animal and plant kingdom, mostly in plants and invertebrates, but some lower vertebrates such as fish and reptiles have exhibited parthenogenesis.

So...maybe there was a jesus, but mary had to have been some kind of reptile..a snake perhaps? hmmm..hahahahah..anyone get the irony...joke? Snake=Devil ahhh never mind.

Check out the article below.

Nature. 2006 Dec 21;444(7122):1021-2.

Parthenogenesis in Komodo dragons.

* Watts PC,
* Buley KR,
* Sanderson S,
* Boardman W,
* Ciofi C,
* Gibson R.

School of Biological Sciences, University of Liverpool, Liverpool L69 7ZB, UK. p.c.watts@liv.ac.uk

Parthenogenesis, the production of offspring without fertilization by a male, is rare in vertebrate species, which usually reproduce after fusion of male and female gametes. Here we use genetic fingerprinting to identify parthenogenetic offspring produced by two female Komodo dragons (Varanus komodoensis) that had been kept at separate institutions and isolated from males; one of these females subsequently produced additional offspring sexually. This reproductive plasticity indicates that female Komodo dragons may switch between asexual and sexual reproduction, depending on the availability of a mate--a finding that has implications for the breeding of this threatened species in captivity. Most zoos keep only females, with males being moved between zoos for mating, but perhaps they should be kept together to avoid triggering parthenogenesis and thereby decreasing genetic diversity.

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Funny story

I've seen, with my own 4 eyes, a virgin birth!  I purchased a baby African emperor scorpion a few years ago.  I had her for almost 2 years.  One day I came home from work and found she had given birth to 15 baby scorpions.  Explain that!

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This really is a strange

This really is a strange thing to happen.  I wish the article was a bit more biologically descriptive.

 

I don't understand though, it says that the offspring are not complete clones, but how can this be if they only have one mother?

Can you put pictures in here?


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Yeah, I'm not sure about

Yeah, I'm not sure about the in-depth biology of how the offspring are not clones - I remember hearing a dissenting voice that Dolly the Sheep was not an exact clone, because her mitochondria were inherited from the host, and not the cell from which the DNA was borrowed. There are also other instances, such as frogs, not to mention them changing gender during adulthood. Getting over my head, but it's definitely interesting.

At any rate, one less thing we need the holy spirit for.

I think the old interface is back now (it was missing for a while), so you can just click on the tree icon to insert an image.

 

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Virgin Birth is a fact

Looks like the immaculate conception happened after all. We just had the wrong species ...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/01/24/komodo.births.ap/index.html

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Yes, my point exactly. 

Yes, my point exactly.  Even if evidence should emerge that Mary delivered as a virgin (and that evidence is surely right around the corner!), it would still be far more reasonable to believe it was biological in its origin, than some miraculous date rape committed by god.  Reptiles are distant relatives of Homo sapiens, but they are still relatives.  To a komodo dragon, mary's virgin birth is "old school".

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it is possible for a virgin

it is possible for a human to be artifically inseminated, regardless of whether this person is a virgin or not, isn't it?
have science/ethics/religious people ever talked about this?

Is it even an ethical issue at all?


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Yes it is possible for a

Yes it is possible for a virgin/non-virgin to be artificially inseminated.  Why do you ask? 

It has been raised as an ethical issue.  The Catholic Church for one opposes surrogate motherhood.   

What bearing do you see this having on belief in the virgin birth? 

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just curious about christian

just curious about christian mythology


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LeftofLarry wrote: It's a

LeftofLarry wrote:
It's a phenomenon called parthenogenesis. A process in which eggs develop as embryos without male sperm or fertilization. This type of asexual reprodcution occurs throught the animal and plant kingdom, mostly in plants and invertebrates, but some lower vertebrates such as fish and reptiles have exhibited parthenogenesis. So...maybe there was a jesus, but mary had to have been some kind of reptile..a snake perhaps? hmmm..hahahahah..anyone get the irony...joke? Snake=Devil ahhh never mind. Check out the article below. Nature. 2006 Dec 21;444(7122):1021-2. Parthenogenesis in Komodo dragons. * Watts PC, * Buley KR, * Sanderson S, * Boardman W, * Ciofi C, * Gibson R. School of Biological Sciences, University of Liverpool, Liverpool L69 7ZB, UK. p.c.watts@liv.ac.uk Parthenogenesis, the production of offspring without fertilization by a male, is rare in vertebrate species, which usually reproduce after fusion of male and female gametes. Here we use genetic fingerprinting to identify parthenogenetic offspring produced by two female Komodo dragons (Varanus komodoensis) that had been kept at separate institutions and isolated from males; one of these females subsequently produced additional offspring sexually. This reproductive plasticity indicates that female Komodo dragons may switch between asexual and sexual reproduction, depending on the availability of a mate--a finding that has implications for the breeding of this threatened species in captivity. Most zoos keep only females, with males being moved between zoos for mating, but perhaps they should be kept together to avoid triggering parthenogenesis and thereby decreasing genetic diversity.

Great going, LeftofLarry, unfortunately, parthenogenesis might just do the trick if Jesus was a woman.

But since Jesus Christ isn't a woman, parthenogenesis wasn't the case.

Like nearly all vertabrates, female sex at humans is determined by non-variation in the sexual chromosomes (XX), whereas male sex is the opposite (XY). There are some species in which this is the other way around, but they are far too distant from humans to even consider such a possibility.

Since it is only a woman that can give birth to children, the sexual chromosomes in parthenogenesis can only come from the woman. And since the woman has no other sexual chromosome than X, the result will be, obviously, another combination of X (XX when normal or any number of X chromosomes if there is a genetic error). Therefore, the result is a woman.

It's not a necessity for the result to be genetically identical to the source, depending on how parthenogenesis takes place (naturally - in which case they are not necessarily identical, or accidental - in which case they are perfectly identical), but it has to be of the same gender and the same singular chromosomal features. Differences only appear when discussing dominant/recessive features.

So don't get scared. Virgin birth is still a myth.

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Rigor_OMortis wrote: Great

Rigor_OMortis wrote:

Great going, LeftofLarry, unfortunately, parthenogenesis might just do the trick if Jesus was a woman.

But since Jesus Christ isn't a woman, parthenogenesis wasn't the case.

So don't get scared. Virgin birth is still a myth.

 

Well..damn you for graciously and intellectually ruining my joke. But you are absolutely right, we have a winner.   

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LeftofLarry

LeftofLarry wrote:
Well..damn you for graciously and intellectually ruining my joke. But you are absolutely right, we have a winner.

Whoops, err... sorry.

I can't help it, really. Whenever I see something that isn't answered and I think I have an answer, I just have to burst in.

Otherwise some people might think that it is possible, and might use it against us in their ignorance. Though it is true that it might still be used the way it is. Quoting only part of something is the fundamentalists' speciallity (Rigor thinks of Luke 16:17).

OK, I'll just take my inactivity pills and dozwe a bit Smiling

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Rigor_OMortis wrote: OK,

Rigor_OMortis wrote:

OK, I'll just take my inactivity pills and dozwe a bit Smiling

 

No need for inactivity pills.  Call it as you see it.  It's all good.

 

 

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Too bad St. Michael's

Too bad St. Michael's gone.  Now he'll never know his beloved jesus was a reptilian female.

 

 

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zarathustra wrote: Too bad

zarathustra wrote:

Too bad St. Michael's gone. Now he'll never know his beloved jesus was a reptilian female.

 

 

 

Did St. Michael get banned?  what happened, I've been meaning to reply in his blog, but haven't had the time to yet. 

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One less thing we need god for...

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