Creation from nothing/chaos
I tried to start a discussion with a theist where our universe came from. I think this could be also a nice discussion on this board. Therefor I will repost an edited version of that message here.
Many theists say that nothing could develop from nothing. Maybe because they don't have an understanding about the 'nothing'. Nothing is basically chaotic and already the ancient Greek believed in a Creation from chaos.
Martin Luther got it right when he did a mistake while translating the bible into German. He translated the words that you know as 'And the earth was without form, and void" into "Und die Erde war wüst und leer".
Leer and void are really synonymical while 'wüst' carries a connotation of chaotic, which the Latin word from the Latin word 'inanis' from the VULGATA didn't have.
But he still was right according to modern physics. An absolute vacuum is chaotic with pseudo-particles appearing and disappearing continuously.
When it comes to the universe I think that the existence of our universe is 'borrowed' from chaos.
The chaos prior to the universe was perfect and from inside a cosmotic (ordered [cosmos is the antonym to chaos]) universe/existence it is barely imaginable. It was neither structured spatially (in nice forms) nor temporally. That it wasn't stuctured temporally means that the idea of causality didn't apply to that (non-)state.
Out of a chaos everything can arise, yes even a God, but a structure as simple as a singularity would arise much more likely than a highly intelligent being as long as it would return to the state of ulimate disorder in the end.
And just from this moment on - from the arise of structure until its end - it is possible to apply the idea of time to that cosmos.
So even if we have no measurements of the state prior to the universe, we know by now, that our universe will die a death of entropy - a death of chaos.
Just as my considerations predicted. And there where we don't measure our universe (the absolute vacuum) we also measure chaos.
Therefor I firmly hold the believe that our universe came from chaos.
In Germany at funerals we have the saying
"Mensch, bedenke dass du Staub bist und zum Staub wiederzurückkehren wirst!"
"Man, keep in mind that you are dust and that you will return to dust"
applied to the universe that would mean:
"Universe, keep in mind that you are chaos and that you will return to chaos"
Who asks me inappropiate questions also has to live with the answers I may give.