Bush Using Religious Right to Spread Fear about Iran

rab
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Bush Using Religious Right to Spread Fear about Iran

Hold on to your butts folks! Looks like Bush is going to invade another country without provocation. How do I know? Well, just take a look at who he has been courting this past week...

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In early 2003, literally just a few weeks before the president would launch a war with Iraq, Bush met with TV preacher Pat Robertson to discuss the conflict. The president reportedly told the televangelist that he believed there’d be minimal casualties, and soon after, began the invasion.

With this background in mind, I was not at all encouraged to see that Bush is now discussing Iran with James Dobson.

“I was invited to go to Washington DC to meet with President Bush in the White House along with 12 or 13 other leaders of the pro-family movement,” Dobson disclosed on his radio program Monday. “And the topic of the discussion that day was Iraq, Iran and international terrorism. And we were together for 90 minutes and it was very enlightening and in some ways disturbing too.” […]

“The world looked at Hitler and just didn’t believe him and tried to appease him the way we’re hearing in Washington today,” Dobson remarked. “You know, the President seems to me does understand this, as I told you from that meeting I had with him the other day, but even there it feels like somebody ought to be standing up and saying, ‘We are being threatened and we are going to meet this with force — whatever’s necessary.’”

First, the fact that Bush is talking about a possible confrontation with Iran at all is discomforting, to put it mildly.

Second, I guess it’s too much to ask, but how about some scrutiny on the White House over the fact that the president is meeting with a nut like Dobson in the first place?

www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/16/bush’s-dobson-meeting-is-not-a-good-sign/

 


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Dude, there are plenty of

Dude, there are plenty of reasons for a rational person to fear Iran and do something if they actually reach the "nucular" threashold, no matter what you think of Bush...

I may not like the BBC politically, but here's what they have to say:

NUCLEAR WEAPONS
"A nation which has culture, logic and civilisation does not need nuclear weapons. The countries which seek nuclear weapons are those which want to solve all problems by the use of force. Our nation does not need such weapons."

NUCLEAR RESEARCH
"We are asked why we have started [nuclear] research. We answer that there is no limitation to research. There are no limits imposed on research in NPT [Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty] or in the Additional Protocol. Nor have we made such a commitment. Research is necessary for the life and dynamism of a nation."

So which is it A-mad-jihad?  We don't need these weapons because we're all so civilized, but we're going to research them anyway...  LOL

CHALLENGES AND THREATS
"The prevalence of military domination, increasing poverty, the growing gap between rich and poor countries, violence as a means to solve crises, spread of terrorism - especially state terrorism - existence and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, the pervasive lack of honesty in interstate relations, and disregard for the equal rights of peoples and nations in international relations, constitute some of the challenges and threats."

Wow!  So a Nation that is an Islamic Foundamentalist Theocracy which thinks a)that the military destruction of Israel is a good idea, b) is a major supporter of international terrorism, c) is THE backbone of Hamas which routinely uses military weapons and terror tactics in Lebannon and Israel, d) seeks to research and build a Nuclear weapons and energy program, e) disregards the rights of the Iranian people by subjugating them to an Islamic Theocracy, f) diregards the rights of other nations like Israel, Lebannon, and the USA, g) hold women and Jews to be sub-human and posessions to own, is complaining about other nations?

ISRAEL
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

THE HOLOCAUST
"They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above God, religions and the prophets."

GOVERNMENT
"Government belongs to all people. It has to address the problems of every parts of the country. All parts of the country should move forward simultaneously. Every Iranian is entitled to equal right, especially in developing individual talent and development."

Except women and non-islamic-fundamentalists...

MORALITY
"Human excellence, the excellence of human society comes about in the light of justice and spirituality. Measures that are taken outside religious morality, politics minus morality, economics minus morality, culture minus morality only turns the world into a hell for nations and humanity."

Of course, he means ISLAMIC MORALITY which IS making the world a HELL for nations and humanity.

HUMAN RIGHTS
"We neither oppress anyone nor are we prepared to submit to anyone's oppression. We want justice, peace and security for all nations. We are defenders of human dignity all across the world."

Except women and non-islamic-fundamentalists...

BELIEF
"Belief in a saviour is universal. It is the pivot of our beliefs as Muslims and Iranians. We believe that an offspring of the prophet, may peace be upon him, will be the ultimate saviour. His name and attributes are clear. He will come and will administer ultimate justice."

Sound familiar?

IRANIAN POWER
"The Iranian nation is a learned nation. It is a civilised nation. It is a history-making nation... You know and we know: you need us far more than we need you."

We should all be a little more like Iran, don't you think?  This is a guy who is as driven to bring about the "Conflict of civilizations" as much as Bush seems to be on his little "Crusaide."

Who needs God when you have Chopin?


Brian37
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Not sure where you are

Not sure where you are going with that post.

I do fear Iran's government. But the younger generation is not fundy. I fear that goverment for the same reason I fear my own under Bush. Both these nuts want their respective religions to be law of the land.

We cant blame all islamic people for what their right wing nuts do, just as we in America dont want to be all judged by what dipshits like Bush does.

Dubya thought he could play John Wayne with his foriegn policy. Suffered nationalistic delusions that the rest of the world would bow to his whims. We are stuck in another Nam and Afganistan isnt going as well as if dipshit Bush had focused his efforts there insted of spreading the troops too thin.

Now everyone knows he has his eyes set on Iran, that is a NO DUH! But if you think after his track record that invading that country would be wise?

I wouldn't put Bush in charge of picking up elephant shit at a zoo. If you asked that moron to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you'd end up with tunna and chocolate on toast. 

So even if I agreed that taking out Iran would help, the last fucking person I'd put in charge of anything like that is such an incompetant boob. 

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Well put Brian. If we look

Well put Brian.

If we look at how "well" things are going in Iraq, and the administration believes they are, why would they change their foreign policy strategy for Iran? Our government is being run by clowns who don't learn from their mistakes. Any mistakes they precieve, they blame on liberals and the media.

Plus, the fact that W created a "war czar" to do the job that a "commander in cheif" should be doing speaks volumes. The man just passes the buck and blames others. 

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this might seem like an

this might seem like an over simplification, but i put no trust whatsoever in the bush/cheney team's agenda, motivations, intelligence gathering or strategies. i think iran, north korea, and of course iraq are all in dire need of immediate attention and redirection, but i can't help but feel that all of the USA's international relations should be put on hold until we have a new administration, or that an entity entirely separate from the Bush administration should be given responsibility for their management. if bush/cheney were working as negotiators/strategists for a private corporation, they would have been fired and replaced years ago.

the democrats were our little ray of hope until they ran into bush's veto-wall, and now their backing down, so i'm not sure who to turn to.

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The fact that bush is

The fact that bush is meeting with the xtian right is not surprising at all, he is in part, the xtian right. My feeling is that the meeting was a way for bush to start selling the war to the "religious" masses from a religious, fear based agenda. Let's not forget Israel, which is the elephant in the room when it comes to middle eastern affairs. Israel is lobbying very hard for the invasion of Iran. Regardless of whether Iran scares us or not, I think that we are being sold out to the israelis and the way the media reports it all si completely skewed. Israel needs  the support of the xtian right in order to keep getting military support from the US. And the xtian right wants Israel preserved so that Jeebus can come back. This is why you see many xtians supporting Israel unabashadly. Ironically, part of this agenda is a small gear in the whole war machine. Let's not forget that most of the "religoius" leaders probably don't even believe any more. What they do believe is that religion makes them $$$$$$$$$$$$ and they see lots of it in the middle east. Israel is a cash cow for the MIC. War profiteering is part of the bigger agenda that caused the union between the neocons and the theocons.  Now we have perpetual war....I mean after all Halliburton's executives have families to feed and yacht vacations to take.  We wouldn't want to take that away from them now would be?

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Some excellent points. To

Some excellent points.

To sum up, the republicans use the right wing christian base as their willing shills. From the administration, then out of the mouths of babes (Dobson talked all week on his radio show about his meeting with Bush) goes the propaganda to the administrations corporate lapdogs at FOX Noise channel.

Iraq was planned during the Clinton adminstration by the cronies that are now pulling Bush's strings. Clinton had nothing to do with the plan (Project for a New American Century). But with the selection of W by the Supreme Court in 2000, we are now seeing those plans unfold under the guise of "war on terror."

Unfortunetly, their visions of the Iraqi people throwing flowers at their feet was short lived. 

 

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Whilst I am not pro-Iran,

Whilst I am not pro-Iran, nor am I particularly pro-American. The biggest problem in nuclear terms is the hypocrisy! The UK and the USA go about as if they are perfectly within their rights to have nuclear weapons but when Iran or North Korea have them they become an "axis of evil". It doesn't excuse Iran and North Korea for building up nuclear facilities but there is a big double standard here, especially considering the corrupt, right-wing government of BushCo.

In terms of religion, from what I gather, despite the rule of Iran being theocratic there is a growing Enlightenment movement happening within Iran, a suppressed Enlightenment but an Enlightenment nontheless. Destroying Iran could well destroy this too. Especially since America is undergoing a de-Enlightenment, a rise in theocratic values and the demise of personal liberty in favour of Capitalist Christianity.

I am unsure as to George Bush' faith. Despite his obvious failings I do not think him a fundy (although probably a Christian), he is pragmatic, because the religious right are a strong base of Republican support and growing. I think Bush is a greedy, self-indulgent, half-witted, Capitalist pig but I think like Hitler he uses religion as a tool rather than actually being a theocrat.  


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Brian37 wrote: I do fear

Brian37 wrote:

I do fear Iran's government. But the younger generation is not fundy. I fear that goverment for the same reason I fear my own under Bush. Both these nuts want their respective religions to be law of the land.

My point exactly.   

Quote:
We cant blame all islamic people for what their right wing nuts do, just as we in America dont want to be all judged by what dipshits like Bush does.

Again, I agree completely.  The difference is that no matter how stupid you hold Dubya to be, which of these loons is more likely to launch a nuclear missile at another country?   

Quote:
Dubya thought he could play John Wayne with his foriegn policy. Suffered nationalistic delusions that the rest of the world would bow to his whims. We are stuck in another Nam and Afganistan isnt going as well as if dipshit Bush had focused his efforts there insted of spreading the troops too thin.

This is EXACTLY what happens when you let politcians fight wars.  The United States IS a paper tiger, just like Bin Laden has said about us.  We don't have the guts to get our hands bloody and fight with people who genuinely want to wipe us off the map or turn us into slaves to Allah...

Some aspects of Dubya's policies are very cowboyish in nature, but in response to Iraq, we've been "talking" and using "sanctions" for how many years and he just kept thumbing his nose at the world...  Someone, somewhere was going to have to end that cat and mouse game.  If only George Senior had the balls to finish the job the first time... 

Quote:
Now everyone knows he has his eyes set on Iran, that is a NO DUH! But if you think after his track record that invading that country would be wise?

Maybe not with him in charge, but if push comes to shove and Iran is about to go Nucular someone will have to stop them because the leaders of that nation have shown themselves to be even less stable than Dubya...  It's like Sam Harris said...  The cold war was a stalemate because neither the US or the USSR really wanted to get into a war that would result in everyone being dead.  Radical Islamic Funadamentalists don't have that problem.  they would GLADLY die as long as they can take us down too...  We can't allow them the opportunity to do so.

Quote:
I wouldn't put Bush in charge of picking up elephant shit at a zoo. If you asked that moron to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you'd end up with tunna and chocolate on toast.

So even if I agreed that taking out Iran would help, the last fucking person I'd put in charge of anything like that is such an incompetant boob.

With this point, I agree entirely.  

Who needs God when you have Chopin?


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Jacob Cordingley wrote:

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
The UK and the USA go about as if they are perfectly within their rights to have nuclear weapons but when Iran or North Korea have them they become an "axis of evil". It doesn't excuse Iran and North Korea for building up nuclear facilities but there is a big double standard here, especially considering the corrupt, right-wing government of BushCo.

Are you trying to make a moral equivalence arguement on behalf of North Korea and Iran?

Rationally speaking, the United States, The United Kingdom, France, and Israel have NEVER, to my knowledge, threatened to use "any means necessary" to wipe a people off the face of the planet.

The reason that it's irrational to make the arguement that "we have them so why can't they" is that we're not threatening anyone with the use of these weapons.  We built up our arsenal of weapons during the cold war as a defensive move.  Perhaps you've heard of Mutually Assured Destruction?

We can't say that a Nation like Iran wouldn't use these weapons in an offensive capacity when that's exactly what they've said they would like to do if they could.  

North Korea wants to use Nuclear Weapons to basically blackmail the rest of the world.  Give us food and money and goods or we'll build this bomb and use it...  We used the bomb on Japan in order to END a destructive conflict.  They would use them to get what they want...  can you not see the difference?

Quote:
In terms of religion, from what I gather, despite the rule of Iran being theocratic there is a growing Enlightenment movement happening within Iran, a suppressed Enlightenment but an Enlightenment nontheless. Destroying Iran could well destroy this too. Especially since America is undergoing a de-Enlightenment, a rise in theocratic values and the demise of personal liberty in favour of Capitalist Christianity.

If you think that the government of Iran will let that get anywhere, then I have a nice little tropical island I'd like to sell you...  Smiling  Eventually, if the movement can grow and overthrow the government in Iran, then that's all the better.  But if that doesn't happen before the Mulahs <sp> get the bomb, it might not matter because they might well that same enlightenment movement into a war that will end baddly anyway...  

Quote:
I am unsure as to George Bush' faith. Despite his obvious failings I do not think him a fundy (although probably a Christian), he is pragmatic, because the religious right are a strong base of Republican support and growing. I think Bush is a greedy, self-indulgent, half-witted, Capitalist pig but I think like Hitler he uses religion as a tool rather than actually being a theocrat.

You might be right.  But he's still better than the psuedo-communists and conspiracy theory nuts that make up the base of the modern democratic party these days...  at least he can't get much done because he's an idiot... 

Who needs God when you have Chopin?


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Iran and North Korea

Iran and North Korea wouldn't be persuing nuclear arsenals if it weren't for Bush's idiotic and inflammatory comments regarding a bullshit axis of evil back in 2001 in the first place. They have as much a right to defend themselves from an outside force as anyone. Until the Americans disarm their nuclear capacity, they have absolutely no right to suggest another country not develop an arsenal of their own.

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Touche' Vastet! And does

Touche' Vastet!

And does anyone really know what will happen if the U.S. gets involved in a war with Iran? Some things to consider:

Russia. They have nukes. Whose side do you think they'll take?

The price of petroleum. Can we afford $10.00 a gallon at the pump?

Iran has other allies in the Middle East, I doubt we will be just fighting them and Russia.

The cost of war. The Iraqi occupation has already put us billions of dollars in dept.

The cost in lives. Enough said.   

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Lest we forget China, who is

Lest we forget China, who is also right next door.

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Jacob Cordingley
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Ghost Rider wrote: Jacob

Ghost Rider wrote:

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
The UK and the USA go about as if they are perfectly within their rights to have nuclear weapons but when Iran or North Korea have them they become an "axis of evil". It doesn't excuse Iran and North Korea for building up nuclear facilities but there is a big double standard here, especially considering the corrupt, right-wing government of BushCo.

Are you trying to make a moral equivalence arguement on behalf of North Korea and Iran?

Rationally speaking, the United States, The United Kingdom, France, and Israel have NEVER, to my knowledge, threatened to use "any means necessary" to wipe a people off the face of the planet.

The reason that it's irrational to make the arguement that "we have them so why can't they" is that we're not threatening anyone with the use of these weapons.  We built up our arsenal of weapons during the cold war as a defensive move.  Perhaps you've heard of Mutually Assured Destruction?

We can't say that a Nation like Iran wouldn't use these weapons in an offensive capacity when that's exactly what they've said they would like to do if they could.  

North Korea wants to use Nuclear Weapons to basically blackmail the rest of the world.  Give us food and money and goods or we'll build this bomb and use it...  We used the bomb on Japan in order to END a destructive conflict.  They would use them to get what they want...  can you not see the difference?

Quote:
In terms of religion, from what I gather, despite the rule of Iran being theocratic there is a growing Enlightenment movement happening within Iran, a suppressed Enlightenment but an Enlightenment nontheless. Destroying Iran could well destroy this too. Especially since America is undergoing a de-Enlightenment, a rise in theocratic values and the demise of personal liberty in favour of Capitalist Christianity.

If you think that the government of Iran will let that get anywhere, then I have a nice little tropical island I'd like to sell you...  Smiling  Eventually, if the movement can grow and overthrow the government in Iran, then that's all the better.  But if that doesn't happen before the Mulahs <sp> get the bomb, it might not matter because they might well that same enlightenment movement into a war that will end baddly anyway...  

Quote:
I am unsure as to George Bush' faith. Despite his obvious failings I do not think him a fundy (although probably a Christian), he is pragmatic, because the religious right are a strong base of Republican support and growing. I think Bush is a greedy, self-indulgent, half-witted, Capitalist pig but I think like Hitler he uses religion as a tool rather than actually being a theocrat.

You might be right.  But he's still better than the psuedo-communists and conspiracy theory nuts that make up the base of the modern democratic party these days...  at least he can't get much done because he's an idiot... 

I wasn't trying to create a moral equivolence. It isn't a case of why can't they? It's a case of why should we? The US or UK aren't exactly good guys! I'm pretty much against nuclear weapons full-stop. It just seems immensely dangerous to have at our disposal weapons that could potentially destroy life on earth. I wasn't saying North Korea and Iran were necessarily good countries, in fact they're terrible places, much worse than the West, but when you have a neo-con, evangelistic imbecile in charge of a nuclear arsenal and claiming his right to one whilst denying anyone else there is a double standard. The absolute crucial point is that no-one should have these things not even as a deterrant!