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Yellow_Number_Five
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Ah, hey, for the time being

Ah, hey, for the time being at least I can share my political points.

I won't ever speak for Rook or Sapient or Kelly or Razor or Amanda or anyone.

But hey, cyberspace is a small world. I AM a libertarian. Yeah, I'm sure that is shocking to you all.

Thing is, I don't really support the Libertarian party, not implicitly at any rate. I'm the guy with the little "l". Frankly, there are no candidates that support my agenda, I hate them all - none of them have the balls or ovaries required to lead or effect change. Oh noes - looks like I'll have to vote my conscious again. How sad. That involves getting out of bed, making a decision and doing what I feel is in principle correct.

So, anyway, which of the lesser evils will you vote for this year and sit back and hope things willl get better? I won't be voting for either.

Surprise me, America.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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ShadowOfMan
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I know we disagree

I know we disagree politically Yellow (And I far from hate you, I deeply respect all that you've done here!), but I think we should at least all work to get a "non-of-the-above" line on the ballot. What do you think? Maybe if more than half the popular vote checks it, than the election is a do-over. Just a thought.

A daughter of hope and fear, religion explains to Ignorance the nature of the unknowable. -Ambrose Bierce


darth_josh
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Agreed.

Agreed.

In Tennessee, both Corker and Ford are against stem cells. Fuck 'em all. Do over.

Oh and for the record, I don't expect anyone to endorse my opinions. It's great when they're shared. However, it doesn't do any good for me when all I get is 'witnesses'. lol.

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Yellow_Number_Five
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I certainly wouldn't oppose

I certainly wouldn't oppose letting "none of the above" be an option when voting. About 50% of our eligible voters already check that box by not voting at all. This should tell us something about a two party dominated system.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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Zhwazi
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Some contend that the 50% of

Some contend that the 50% of voters that don't vote are libertarians that don't like politics becuase they know everyone is full of shit and haven't heard of the Libertarian Party.

Also, please start spelling Libertarian correctly. It's really not helping your credibility to call yourself something you can't spell correctly. You keep spelling it "Libertine".


ShadowOfMan
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I don't know. As impossible

I don't know. As impossible as it seems to me to be able to actually get equal access for the liberatarians, greens, socialists, ect., on any of the ballots, we should all work together on things like election reform before we do anything else. Put our differences aside and work on getting our voices to count.

A daughter of hope and fear, religion explains to Ignorance the nature of the unknowable. -Ambrose Bierce


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I believe it is the UK that

I believe it is the UK that has a ranking system that allows for voting that isn't always two party (I could be wrong about the country this is in, I dunno). They apparently rank each candidate by giving the candidates points on their ballots. Essentially, it is like saying X is my most favoritest, Y is my next favoritist, and Z is a bastard so he gets the bottom of the list! I am not sure what the provisions are for write-ins, but I'm sure there are practical ways to allow for them. There's a name for the system, but I don't remember what it is called. When they vote, after they have ranked their candidates, the ballots are assessed and the most points wins. The system allows for a better view of who is a preferred candidate.


ShadowOfMan
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That's instant run-off

That's instant run-off voting. Not sure about England, but Australia has it.
Maybe 50% are LIBERTARIANS, but more likely they don't care cause they think they can't change things anyway.

A daughter of hope and fear, religion explains to Ignorance the nature of the unknowable. -Ambrose Bierce


Zhwazi
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ShadowOfMan wrote:Maybe 50%

ShadowOfMan wrote:
Maybe 50% are LIBERTARIANS, but more likely they don't care cause they think they can't change things anyway.

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Y#5. Look for example at his thread titled "Find Libertine Candidates in You Area". I don't recall you misspelling it.

And they don't care because they never hear about Libertarianism and what it's about. The media is all "LOL SOSHELISTS AN THEORCATS NOOBDY ELS EXITSS LOL".


ShadowOfMan
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I misspell it alot though.

I misspell it alot though. Sorry!


Yellow_Number_Five
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Well, for me at least if you

Well, for me at least if you spell it libertine it IS a bit different than Libertarian. I'm a libertine, and use that word to describe myself. I support no particular party. Yes, I identify and tend to support Libertarian candidates, but I hold myself to no party line. I go with the "little L", as it describes me much better. I vote a principled line, and party affiliation has little to do with it.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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Razorcade
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Libertarianism

I for one love to learn about new things.
Could you recommend an informative site about Libertarianism?

My personal views on politics are similar to what Sam Harris described in 'The End of Faith'
A no party system, and qualifications for candidates other than, or in addition to, their age/nationality.


Zhwazi
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Mises.org is a site about

Mises.org is a site about free-market economics, one of the prominent economists featured there, Murray Rothbard, wrote the Libertarian Manifesto. I'd have directed you to the Libertarian Party website except that the LRC gutted the platform. The only really good way I can think of to learn about Libertarianism is to talk to libertarians, find out what they think and why. There's such a great variety and degree of libertarians. Handling large numbers of libertarians is a lot like herding cats, because libertarians generally don't want to be told what to do and disagree on how much government is really necessary. So there's really no authoritative comprehensive site on libertarianism that most libertarians will agree with.

What libertarians think can be summed up easily: They oppose increases in government and support decreases in government.

How far it goes depends on the individual libertarian. I personally take it so far as to say that government is an illegitemate cult, some take it lightly, like Neal Boortz, who generally wants small government but supports wars and such, there's Minarchists like YN5, Objectivists are a type of minarchist, those libertarians think government should be limited to courts, police, and military, and people in between and outliers to all those points.


Yellow_Number_Five
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Neato. Minarchist is a new

Neato. Minarchist is a new term for me, but it does seem to fit.

But yeah, in the end, those who lean libertarian are a lot like atheists in that there is a fundamental that binds us, but that there are a multitude of things that we vary upon - all we really agree on is that there should be less government and more civil liberty (how much more hand how to go about that vary).

Edit: I will add though that the only thing I think should not be privitized is the courts. Law enforcement is easily privitized and has been to a great deal already and done so effectively. I personally think the Constitution itself privitizes the military and that in a global economy and trade network there is little need for bunker busters and hydrogen bombs.

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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Zhwazi
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Then you're a little more

Then you're a little more minarchist than most minarchists.

Get the book "Adventures in Legal Land" by Marc Stevens. Hilarious book. You'll change your mind about public courts completely after reading it (and probably before you're done). I love the way he makes fun of bureaucrats. Here's a video of him on TV. He proves that nations don't exist by using the definition of "nation" against itself, and tells stories of how he pissed off a lot of judges by making them contradict themselves.

http://www.adventuresinlegalland.com/interview.mov

Aside from that, courts would have to be aggressive to maintain the monopoly they have at present, keeping other courts from cropping up to supplant them, which violates the non-aggression principle. I don't see how a principled libertarian can advocate aggression to keep a certain set of courts in power. Giving monopoly privilige to a single set of courts gives you all the problems that arise from monopoly - inefficiency, poor service, high prices, et cetera. This is made much worse in the case of monopoly courts where you'd get judges giving preferential treatment, accepting bribes, and generally being corrupt, while deciding whether you go to jail or get sentenced to death. I hope you'll excuse me for not wanting to trust that service to a monopoly.


jcgadfly
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Yellow_Number_Five wrote:I

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:
I certainly wouldn't oppose letting "none of the above" be an option when voting. About 50% of our eligible voters already check that box by not voting at all. This should tell us something about a two party dominated system.

At one time I thought (as a joke only) about legally changing my name to "none of the above" and running for office.

If the option wound up on the ballot, some damn fool would change his name for real.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Yellow_Number_Five
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I think they made a movie

I think they made a movie about that, they called it Brewster's Millions Eye-wink

 


jcgadfly
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Yellow_Number_Five

Yellow_Number_Five wrote:

I think they made a movie about that, they called it Brewster's Millions Eye-wink

 

Really, I don't remember that scene - I'll have to look again.

No biggie. Watching Richard Pryor work makes me happy. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin