evolution or bigbang?

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evolution or bigbang?

Why Do You Exist?
Was the universe created or is it merely an act of chance?
#1(the atheiests creation ...)The mainstream theory on the origin of the universe is called the big bang theory. Basically it states that in the beginning there was nothing; no time, no, space, no matter, no dimensions. Some how, there blinked into existence a singularity. (A point in space that had 0 height, 0 length, 0 width) that contained all the matter and energy in the universe. This point exploded and the results is the present day universe.
#2(the theists creation...)
Notice Genesis 2:7: “
…God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
are we the result of the “Big Bang”?or chance?
The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.
#3(The Atheist Test)
I don't believe in atheists. This isn't because I haven't met people who claim the title, but because such a person cannot be. Let's imagine that you are a professing atheist. I will ask you two questions: First, do you know the combined weight of all the sand on all the beaches of Hawaii? I think I can safely assume that you don't. This brings us to the second question: Do you know how many hairs are on your head? Probably not. I think, therefore, that it is reasonable for me to conclude that there are some things you don't know. It is important to ask these questions because there are some people who think they know everything.


Rave
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Apotheon wrote:

Apotheon wrote:

Raven, your statement that evolution is accepted by 99.99% of scientists is FAR over stated! And is part of the BS YOU have been indoctrinated into believing. That's what the Massons and Communists WANT you to think! Many, many scientists have problems with evolution but they can't raise those issues because for fear of losing their teachings jobs. This has been well documented. Also I heard that of the top 1,000 US scientists, 40% of them deny or question evolution. The others just aren't honest enough to admit their views due to fears of suspencion or termination. The Discovery Institute has a list of over 300 PhD scientists who utterly reject evolution. You have to understand that the only reason it is still be taught and promoted, is because its the only naturalistic explanation they have because they rule out a priori the supernaural. They have nothing at this point to fall back on in terms of a naturalistic/antisupernaturalistic alternative. Science is not the honest field it once was. We have been duped and lied to by the Masons and Communists. They have lied and deceived us. You are a product of that deception. Their figures of evolution teachers is not accurate because they have an agenda to remove Christianity from the planet. And ignorant people like you are helping them do it.

Also, the "majority" does not always equal the truth (argumentum ad populum fallacy). The "majority once believed thr world was flat.

Oooh!Those scary communists and Masons are out to get us! Help Apotheon! What ever shall we do to save ourselves!?

You 'heard' about these 1000 scientists? Where from? The Discovery Institute has 600 scientists on a petition who don't agree with the generally accepted theory of evolution - so you can't even get your own propaganda numbers correct. Of these 600 scientists only 150 or so are biologists. Compared the number of scientists in the US who DO agree with evolution that makes only 0.0157% of the scientific community as non-supporters. So I'm sorry, I guess I should have said 99.9843% instead of 99.99%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution#Recent_scientific_trends

<EDIT>And that's just the number for the USA! You won't get more than a couple dozen crackpot 'scientists' in any other country who don't agree with evolution.</EDIT>

Masonry started in 43 AD? The first gospel can't be datedto before 70AD! The first bible wasn't compiled for a couple of hundred years! Christianity was just another saviour-god mystery cult!

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


jcgadfly
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Apotheon wrote: JC, again,

Apotheon wrote:
JC, again, I did not get my info from the links she gave. You can look at the material in her links and see for youreslf that there is no word for word parallel.

I did and it's second-hand plagiarism.

You took it from a site who took it themselves without attributing it to the original authors.

It's the "without attribution" that is at the heart of the matter. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Apotheon wrote: Rave Said:

Apotheon wrote:

Rave Said: How do you know that the Masons 'leader' is "the devil/Antichrist"? I happen to know 3 Freemasons - one is Christian, two are closet atheists

 

Response: Ok, a little history lesson here. Masonry began in 43 AD. It rose as a reaction against Christianity with the goal to extinguish it from the world. They have been unsuccessful for 2,000 years because they are fighting someone that has power far beyond their capacity to ever comprehend, the Lord Jesus Christ. The York Rite of Masonry is for "Christians," but this is another one of their deceptions. Once they get initiated and elevated to higher levels, they tell them the truth about Masonry, Lucifer and Albert Pike. Albert Pike was the leader of American Masonry and World Masonry. He stated in his book "Morals and Dogmas, in page 213 that "every Masonic temple is a temple of religion". In 1889 Pike addressed all 23 Councils of Masonry and told them that Masonry is a religion, and should maintain the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. He said that Lucifer is God, and true religion worships Lucifer. Pike also started the KKK. Masonry is extrememely anti-Christian. Master Masons are forbidden to end prayers in "Jesus name." They are threatened to having their lodge closed and charter revoked if they pray in the name of Jesus. Instead, they end their prayers with the phrase "so mote it be," the same phrase used in Witchcraft.

The Vatican

It is established fact that Masons have penetrated the Catholic Church. They were behind the abomitable renovations produced by the Vatican II Council. There are many sources proving this by many writers. Its even known by educated Catholics. There are three videos I recommend you watch.

The Communist and Freemasonic Infiltration of the Catholic Church, by Dr. James Wardner.

Freemasonry's Vast Influence Over America, by Dr. James Wardner.

Abortion, Rock Music and Freemasonry Exposed, b Michael Dimond.

Just for giggles, check this out.

http://skepdic.com/freemasons.html 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Apotheon wrote: Raven,

Apotheon wrote:

Raven, your statement that evolution is accepted by 99.99% of scientists is FAR over stated! And is part of the BS YOU have been indoctrinated into believing. That's what the Massons and Communists WANT you to think! Many, many scientists have problems with evolution but they can't raise those issues because for fear of losing their teachings jobs. This has been well documented. Also I heard that of the top 1,000 US scientists, 40% of them deny or question evolution.

  So this survey taken, what was the exact question? Was it do you deny or question evolution? As a scientist, isn't it your job to question things?   I thought science thrived on scrutiny of a subject.

Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.


Apotheon
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 Rave, the Gospel of Mark

 Rave, the Gospel of Mark dates to before 60 AD. And Christianity is not based solely on the NT. It is also based on the Church, which was founded in 33 AD. The Church existed before the NT was written, and long before it was canonized. That's the problem with atheists and protestants. They have reduced their understanding of Christianity to the Bible alone. Protestants don't have the fulness of the faith. There is also an unwritten oral transmition of the faith that was passed down through apostolic succession and preserved in Orthodoxy. If all Bibles were confiscated by the government and destroyed, protestantism would die. But Orthodoxy and Catholicism would survive because they have the Church and oral tradition.

 

As for the "copy cat savior" / "pagan paralle" myth," I can't believe people are even still arguing that. It has been so thoroughly debunked by scholars its not even funny. Even atheist Richard Carrier has discredited it! His article is reproduced in the Sun God worship thread. See also this link:

 

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat.html

The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator -- Louis Pasteur


Rave
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Apotheon wrote:

Apotheon wrote:
Rave, the Gospel of Mark dates to before 60 AD. And Christianity is not based solely on the NT. It is also based on the Church, which was founded in 33 AD.

That's ridiculous - help yourself to a history book that isn't written by some fundamentalist conspiracy theorist.

Apotheon wrote:
The Church existed before the NT was written, and long before it was canonized. That's the problem with atheists and protestants. They have reduced their understanding of Christianity to the Bible alone. Protestants don't have the fulness of the faith. There is also an unwritten oral transmition of the faith that was passed down through apostolic succession and preserved in Orthodoxy. If all Bibles were confiscated by the government and destroyed, protestantism would die. But Orthodoxy and Catholicism would survive because they have the Church and oral tradition.

Yeah, because we all know how the Catholics are so unwavering their traditions. They'd never change, let's say, the requirements for sainthood or their ideas about 'Limbo'.

How old are you? How many of these apostolic successions and oral transmissions have you been privy to? Where is your evidence for these claims?

Apotheon wrote:
As for the "copy cat savior" / "pagan paralle" myth," I can't believe people are even still arguing that. It has been so thoroughly debunked by scholars its not even funny. Even atheist Richard Carrier has discredited it!

Oh boy, you better quit now - don't dig the hole any deeper. Have you seen Richard Carrier's views on 'The God Who Wasn't There'? Have you listened to any of the dozen or so episodes of the RRS radio shows that Carrier has been the main guest on? Carrier is a 'official' member of the RRS! I suggest you do some research before you make unsubstantiated claims about people you don't know.

I'd love to see you debate Rook.

<EDIT>Read this review to learn more about Richard Carrier's views on the historicity issue: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/jesuspuzzle.shtml

And even if Carrier still did believe in the historicity of Jesus his Metaphisical Naturalistic worldview is completely at odds with any belief in zombies, unaided human flight or miracles.</EDIT>

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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 After-Life Insurance for

 After-Life Insurance for sale
plese contact me @ my private  e-mail  bigsirloin@yahoo.com

or phone #1800 - sir-loin

Jesus' appears in my dump, worth $6,000
Cameras catch 'Son of God' around the toilet, images sold on eBay


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Apotheon wrote: Rave Said:

Apotheon wrote:

Rave Said: How do you know that the Masons 'leader' is "the devil/Antichrist"? I happen to know 3 Freemasons - one is Christian, two are closet atheists

 

Response: Ok, a little history lesson here. Masonry began in 43 AD. It rose as a reaction against Christianity with the goal to extinguish it from the world. They have been unsuccessful for 2,000 years because they are fighting someone that has power far beyond their capacity to ever comprehend, the Lord Jesus Christ. The York Rite of Masonry is for "Christians," but this is another one of their deceptions. Once they get initiated and elevated to higher levels, they tell them the truth about Masonry, Lucifer and Albert Pike. Albert Pike was the leader of American Masonry and World Masonry. He stated in his book "Morals and Dogmas, in page 213 that "every Masonic temple is a temple of religion". In 1889 Pike addressed all 23 Councils of Masonry and told them that Masonry is a religion, and should maintain the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. He said that Lucifer is God, and true religion worships Lucifer. Pike also started the KKK. Masonry is extrememely anti-Christian. Master Masons are forbidden to end prayers in "Jesus name." They are threatened to having their lodge closed and charter revoked if they pray in the name of Jesus. Instead, they end their prayers with the phrase "so mote it be," the same phrase used in Witchcraft.

The Vatican

It is established fact that Masons have penetrated the Catholic Church. They were behind the abomitable renovations produced by the Vatican II Council. There are many sources proving this by many writers. Its even known by educated Catholics. There are three videos I recommend you watch.

The Communist and Freemasonic Infiltration of the Catholic Church, by Dr. James Wardner.

Freemasonry's Vast Influence Over America, by Dr. James Wardner.

Abortion, Rock Music and Freemasonry Exposed, b Michael Dimond.

 

I could have sworn on the History channel, there was a special on the Free Masons and the ideas that they have all of these secrets are all lies.  I will try to source it because these are just conspiracy theories that people use for arguments like these.  


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ForbiddenAlly wrote: I

ForbiddenAlly wrote:
I could have sworn on the History channel, there was a special on the Free Masons and the ideas that they have all of these secrets are all lies. I will try to source it because these are just conspiracy theories that people use for arguments like these.

It is. The Masons (now) consist of poor black people who just like to get together and get drunk. 


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Apotheon wrote: Rave Said:

Apotheon wrote:

Rave Said: How do you know that the Masons 'leader' is "the devil/Antichrist"? I happen to know 3 Freemasons - one is Christian, two are closet atheists

 

Response: Ok, a little history lesson here. Masonry began in 43 AD. It rose as a reaction against Christianity with the goal to extinguish it from the world. They have been unsuccessful for 2,000 years because they are fighting someone that has power far beyond their capacity to ever comprehend, the Lord Jesus Christ. The York Rite of Masonry is for "Christians," but this is another one of their deceptions. Once they get initiated and elevated to higher levels, they tell them the truth about Masonry, Lucifer and Albert Pike. Albert Pike was the leader of American Masonry and World Masonry. He stated in his book "Morals and Dogmas, in page 213 that "every Masonic temple is a temple of religion". In 1889 Pike addressed all 23 Councils of Masonry and told them that Masonry is a religion, and should maintain the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. He said that Lucifer is God, and true religion worships Lucifer. Pike also started the KKK. Masonry is extrememely anti-Christian. Master Masons are forbidden to end prayers in "Jesus name." They are threatened to having their lodge closed and charter revoked if they pray in the name of Jesus. Instead, they end their prayers with the phrase "so mote it be," the same phrase used in Witchcraft.

The Vatican

It is established fact that Masons have penetrated the Catholic Church. They were behind the abomitable renovations produced by the Vatican II Council. There are many sources proving this by many writers. Its even known by educated Catholics. There are three videos I recommend you watch.

The Communist and Freemasonic Infiltration of the Catholic Church, by Dr. James Wardner.

Freemasonry's Vast Influence Over America, by Dr. James Wardner.

Abortion, Rock Music and Freemasonry Exposed, b Michael Dimond.

Who should I worry about more?

The freemasons, who have some corrupt members and might get temporal power?

or the Vatican, which has corrupt members (even before the freemasons arrived) and already HAS temporal power? 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote: Who should

jcgadfly wrote:
Who should I worry about more?

The freemasons, who have some corrupt members and might get temporal power?

or the Vatican, which has corrupt members (even before the freemasons arrived) and already HAS temporal power?

Neither. Both are out of your control. 


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CrimsonEdge

CrimsonEdge wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:
Who should I worry about more?

The freemasons, who have some corrupt members and might get temporal power?

or the Vatican, which has corrupt members (even before the freemasons arrived) and already HAS temporal power?

Neither. Both are out of your control.

I know. 

Apotheon seems to be loading his drawers about freemasons and communists but seems to have no problem with the hoods that he's attached to (once they get the masons out). 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin