A question to theists about creation.

LeftofLarry
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A question to theists about creation.

Well I will start out this thread by asking this question.  How many here believe that God has stopped creating life?

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Bump.

Bump.


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I'd really like to hear a

I'd really like to hear a theist response to this.

Hence, bump. 


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Why is it when legitimate

Why is it when legitimate questions are posed to theists, they never seem to get answered? 

Bump.


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Iruka Naminori
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I can play the fundy I was

I can play the fundy I was in my teens if you'd like. Smiling

Iruka, circa 1985: God created the world in six days and created all life in its current form. Evolution is just a theory and has, in fact, been discredited:

*footprints of humans next to those of dinosaurs in a riverbed in Texas

*fossilized trees that poke vertically through several layers of so-called "eras"

*the great flood in the bible was responsible for mass extinctions and for the layers evolutionists call "eras" or "epochs"

*it is only logical that the simpler life forms would sift through sediment and be deposited at the bottom, while more complex lifeforms were deposited in the middle layers and at the top

*The sun shrinks five feet in diameter every year. If the earth is really 4.5 billion years old, it would have actually been inside the sun when it was created.

So there. The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it.

So the short answer is: No, God is no longer creating life. Reproduction takes care of that.

(Your turn, Larry.)

(P.S. Should I sue my school for giving me a crappy science education?) 

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Fine, I'll bite the

Fine, I'll bite the bullet. I don't believe that God has stopped creating. But then I believe evolution... I don't ignore cold hard facts.

*Croutches back into her hole covering her head screaming, "DON'T HURT ME!!!!"*

 Tongue out

 

 

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Wishkah311 wrote: Fine,

Wishkah311 wrote:

Fine, I'll bite the bullet. I don't believe that God has stopped creating. But then I believe evolution... I don't ignore cold hard facts.

*Croutches back into her hole covering her head screaming, "DON'T HURT ME!!!!"*

Tongue out

 

hahah.. I don't hurt anyone... Smiling  before I continue, are you a catholic? 

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Also, Wishkah311, if you

Also, Wishkah311, if you believe evolution to be true, how do you reconcile that with the story of creation in the bible?  I know that catholics are not biblical literalists....but in essence christianity bases it's belief of god from the bible and the creation story is a biblical truth, so if you believe in evolution how do you reconcile that with biblical truth?  And if you do not buy the bible as being the inerrant word of god, how do you prove god does exist?  Jesus? 

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I'm going to timidly step

I'm going to timidly step into this conversation.  Is it really necessary to believe in the creation story to hold a belief in god?  Most theists I know consider the creation story to be just that: a story, written by man. Then again, they tend to view god very personally and almost separately from the god in the Bible, if that makes sense.  I personally can't believe anyone would even consider the creation story to be true but hey, who am I to judge? 

 Iruka - You should definitely sue you school if they taught you that dinosaurs and men shared the earth together!  Eye-wink 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


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Wishkah311 wrote: Fine,

Wishkah311 wrote:

Fine, I'll bite the bullet. I don't believe that God has stopped creating. But then I believe evolution... I don't ignore cold hard facts.

*Croutches back into her hole covering her head screaming, "DON'T HURT ME!!!!"*

Tongue out

I don't think this will hurt much...what exactly do you think a god is creating, apart from the fact that there is no evidence that a god created anything?

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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pariahjane wrote: I'm

pariahjane wrote:

I'm going to timidly step into this conversation. Is it really necessary to believe in the creation story to hold a belief in god? Most theists I know consider the creation story to be just that: a story, written by man. Then again, they tend to view god very personally and almost separately from the god in the Bible, if that makes sense. I personally can't believe anyone would even consider the creation story to be true but hey, who am I to judge?

Iruka - You should definitely sue you school if they taught you that dinosaurs and men shared the earth together! Eye-wink

 

I suppose you don't have to believe in creation to believe in god, but then where do you get your beliefs in a god from, if not the bible or some other "proof" of his existence?  How do you come to a rational conclusion that there is a god? 

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LeftofLarry

LeftofLarry wrote:

I suppose you don't have to believe in creation to believe in god, but then where do you get your beliefs in a god from, if not the bible or some other "proof" of his existence? How do you come to a rational conclusion that there is a god?

I suppose you could say that one could believe god created the earth but not the way the bible says. But then you would get into the whole 'the Bible is the infallible word of god' issue. Why is it that it seems so many people don't buy the creation story but still believe in god? This raises so many questions for me. Perhaps I'm just being dense.

I don't think a person can come to a rational conclusion that god exists based on many things. I would like to understand why so many people do. It's more of a social curiosity rather than a rational one.

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pariahjane

pariahjane wrote:

I suppose you could say that one could believe god created the earth but not the way the bible says. But then you would get into the whole 'the Bible is the infallible word of god' issue. Why is it that it seems so many people don't buy the creation story but still believe in god? This raises so many questions for me. Perhaps I'm just being dense.

I don't think a person can come to a rational conclusion that god exists based on many things. I would like to understand why so many people do. It's more of a social curiosity rather than a rational one.

 

hence, why I startd this thread. Smiling

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Okay... for lack of a

Okay... for lack of a better word, I am a Catholic. But, as people keep telling me, I don't act or believe like a good Catholic. I don't adhere to any organized faith (that I am aware of). I haven't read the bible in many years. I certainly don't adhere to the bible like most Christians feel they should. It is a book written by man. Inspired by God? Maybe. But does that make it all true... I don't know. I choose not to ignore it, but to look at it as an interesting book with an interesting history... so evolution doesn't conflict with my beliefs.

However, let's say for the sake of argument, that the Creation story from the bible is true. If someone asked me (uneducated in the mystical ways of science: P) what the creation looked like, I would probably say something along the lines of "And God said 'Let there be light' and ther was. God created the land and the water and all the little ducks and kitties and bunnies. Uhm, yeah... God created it all.. there you go." I don't know how to explain physics... I'm not that smart... so I would put it in simple terms of God did this, etc. Not to mention, if I am pushing my own agenda about how women should be subserviant to men, then I would make Eve from a rib bone... that way... God MADE woman from man to SERVE man... When really... it's evolution. But you can't explain evolution to someone with absolutely no knowledge of modern (or ancient) science.. thus we have the creation story.  And I don't think evolution conflicts with that all that much.

As for proving God and Jesus exist... I don't. I believe and that is enough for me. I have a hard time believing there isn't a higher power out there some where, be it God, Jehovah, Allah, or whomever. I call him God. I don't have logical equations for my belief system... cause that's impossible. It works for me though.  

Thus endeth the lesson.... sorry about the length.

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AiiA wrote: what exactly

AiiA wrote:

what exactly do you think a god is creating, apart from the fact that there is no evidence that a god created anything?

I believe that God created all things.  I believe evolution is the method he used to do it.  God is always creating because through evolution, we are always changing.  

By the way, when it comes to science, if I'm wrong, I don't mean to be.  Sometimes I misread or misremember things... Writing is my thing... that I can do.  Not so much with the science. 

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Hambydammit
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Wishkah, first I want you

Wishkah, first I want you to notice that I'm a furry, lovable kitty... ignore the gun for the time being. That's for people who are willfully ignorant or who are just arguing for the sake of being "right." You sound like you're interested in what is real and what is not, so I have a couple of questions for you.

Quote:
As for proving God and Jesus exist... I don't. I believe and that is enough for me. I have a hard time believing there isn't a higher power out there some where, be it God, Jehovah, Allah, or whomever. I call him God. I don't have logical equations for my belief system... cause that's impossible. It works for me though.

Ok. No logical equations, I promise! Let's just think about the rest of your life for a minute. Can you think of anything you believe that you don't have a reason for believing? I certainly hope not. Every belief, even a false one, has a basis. Mom and Dad tell you that Santa exists, so you believe it. Not based on a logical equation, but because your parents said so, and you believe them. When we're young, it doesn't occur to us that our parents might be wrong or mistaken. Later, we realize that our parents are human and make just as many mistakes as we do. Hopefully, we start making decisions based on more than just "Mom and Dad said so."

Unfortunately, many people still hold beliefs "because So-And-So said so." Have you noticed how many people in America still believe there are WMDs in Iraq? Even though the evidence is overwhelming that there are none? The power of persuasion is very strong, and some people don't want to do the thinking themselves. They'd rather just believe someone else because it's more comfortable, or because it means they won't have to admit they're wrong, or because they're afraid their family won't accept them if they don't believe it...

Can you see where I'm going with this? "I believe and that is enough for me." These are your words. Do they sound like they could apply to WMDs? Lots of people say it. "This is America, dang-blast-it! If Our Savior and President says it, I believe it. That settles it." You can see how it's kind of dangerous, right?

Next, you said, "I have a hard time believing there isn't a higher power out there some where, be it God, Jehovah, Allah, or whomever." Think about this for a second. You say you don't understand science, and that's cool. This doesn't take any science. Can you think of anything else that's difficult to believe, but is true? Clearly these things happen all the time in science. It's difficult for me to believe that a satellite orbiting the earth is actually in free-fall, and that the only thing that keeps it up is the motion of the earth, but it's true. (If oversimplified...) It was difficult for people to believe that the earth was round until Aristotle noticed a curved shadow on the moon. Would you say that people are better off knowing that the earth is round? Of course they are!  Do you like your cell phone?  Satellite technology makes it possible.

So, here's the real question. Why is the existence of god any different? God either exists, or he doesn't. Why would you think that humanity wouldn't be better off knowing the truth? Every advance that humanity has made has been from trying to discover the truth. Why should your religion be exempt from the search for truth? Because it makes you feel good about the universe? How do you know that you wouldn't feel better if you knew there was no god? What makes you think that religion is the only thing that is better left unexamined? Is it scary to think that there might not be a god? Do you think you would still manage to get up tomorrow morning if there wasn't?

I think you'd manage, and in fact, from your post, it doesn't seem like the world would change much for you. Why do you think you avoid examining the idea of god? Are you afraid of something?

 

 

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I understand what you are

I understand what you are saying about me seeming to be afraid of finding out that God doesn't exist.  That is a scary prospect to me.  However, I choose not discuss my beliefs very often because I get tired of explaining them, then everyone telling me I'm wrong, and that I'm either going to hell or delusional.  Not that you in particular are going to do that.  Thus far, this is a very valid conversation.  However, the Christians seem to hate me more than they hate you.  I believe in God but I'm going to hell anyways because I believe in reincarnation and I don't read the bible.  Everyone on that side wants to put God in a box and say that what I believe isn't only wrong, but impossible. 

On the atheist side of things, you guys disagree with me, from time to time loudly and aggressively.  I know that, no matter what I say, I will not be capable of arguing my beliefs to your (general) satisfaction.  I don't have bible verse or scientific evidence to back up what I believe.  Mostly, I follow how I want to world to work.  Childish, irrational, silly, or whatever, that is how I look at my faith.

I also agree that some people would be glad to no longer have a belief in God.  It would be a great weight off their shoulders.  I like believing in God.  Of course, I could continue to live my life if God didn't exist, but it wouldn't make me happy.  And I don't think you guys should stop searching for the truth.  If you want to find the truth go for it! I never said that I wanted anyone to stop discussing these issues.  That way I understand it, your (atheists) non-belief in God, etc. is just as important to you as my belief in God.  I don't believe in God because I was told to.  I believe in God because I do.  I don't equate my belief in God with blind devotion towards a certain Texan President.  I have come to this place in my faith after much internal debate and struggle.  I have questioned my belief structure, and that is how I came to this place in my life.  I even allow others to question it.  With an atheist as a boyfriend, it is damn near impossible to have faith unquestioned.  Perhaps one day, this will all change for me.  But I don't need proof of God.  I believe without it.

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Quote: Of course, I could

Quote:
Of course, I could continue to live my life if God didn't exist, but it wouldn't make me happy.

A nice thought, but you don't know this. I thought the same thing when I was a theist. I was wrong.

Quote:
That way I understand it, your (atheists) non-belief in God, etc. is just as important to you as my belief in God.

Not quite, actually. Frankly, I'd love to live in a world where I never had to give god-belief a thought, the same way I don't have to give Santa Claus a thought. I imagine 99.8% of atheists feel the same way. Religious belief is different because it is a positive belief that changes the way people view the world, and often, the way they relate to people around them. This positive belief affects me in negative ways. Atheism, per se, does not, and cannot affect people that way.  (Note that the words "positive belief" do not mean "good belief," but rather "belief that a thing exists.&quotEye-wink

Quote:
I believe in God because I do.

This is not a real sentence. I'm not trying to bust your chops on it, but this doesn't say anything. Once upon a time, you did not believe in god. Then, you did. Something happened to make you believe. What was it? (I'm really asking the question. It's not rhetorical. If I had to guess, it's because your parents told you so, or you saw them praying, or went to church with them. Am I wrong?)

Quote:
I don't equate my belief in God with blind devotion towards a certain Texan President.

Didn't say you did. I was pointing out that believing something without knowing why you believe can be extremely dangerous -- if more people had asked better questions, tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens would be alive. Belief without evidence is very, very dangerous.

Quote:
I have come to this place in my faith after much internal debate and struggle. I have questioned my belief structure, and that is how I came to this place in my life. I even allow others to question it.

It's great that you allow questions. I wonder if you've ever questioned whether faith is a virtue. I mean, believing something without evidence, or contrary to the evidence... is that something that is generally good in life? If not, why would it be good with regard to god?

Again, these are not rhetorical questions. If you've answered all these questions for yourself, and don't mind others asking, I'm interested in precisely why you decided that the issue of god should be exempt from critical thought.

Quote:
But I don't need proof of God. I believe without it.

Sorry to get into something a little technical with you, but you don't believe without proof. Belief is not a choice, it is a state of being. No matter how much I want to believe that I can walk through a wall, I can't make myself believe it. I believe that I cannot because of evidence to that effect. You believe because of something in your mind that convinces you... that's your proof. My contention, and the contention of atheists in general, is that your proof, if you examine it thoroughly, is not up to the standards you set for believing other things. If you were to discover this for yourself, you might stop believing in god. You wouldn't have a choice in the matter. You'd either believe or not.

My last question for you is this: Have you ever considered the difference between "belief in god" and "belief in belief in god"? Lots of people have these nebulous, undefined ideas about the existence of some indefinable thing, but when it comes down to it, they believe that believing in god is a good thing, so they live their lives with quasi-belief -- not a fully formed opinion that they genuinely believe, but a vague notion that it's a good thing to believe.

What do you think of that?

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit wrote: A nice

Hambydammit wrote:

A nice thought, but you don't know this. I thought the same thing when I was a theist. I was wrong.

this is true.

Quote:

Not quite, actually. Frankly, I'd love to live in a world where I never had to give god-belief a thought, the same way I don't have to give Santa Claus a thought. I imagine 99.8% of atheists feel the same way. Religious belief is different because it is a positive belief that changes the way people view the world, and often, the way they relate to people around them. This positive belief affects me in negative ways. Atheism, per se, does not, and cannot affect people that way. (Note that the words "positive belief" do not mean "good belief," but rather "belief that a thing exists.&quotEye-wink

also true, i shouldn't be making assumptions about how you feel. 

Quote:

Once upon a time, you did not believe in god. Then, you did. Something happened to make you believe. What was it? (I'm really asking the question. It's not rhetorical. If I had to guess, it's because your parents told you so, or you saw them praying, or went to church with them. Am I wrong?)

Originally, yes, i did believe in God because I went to church at a young age.  My parents went to church, so I did, too.  However, since that time, I have spent a large amount of time evaluating what I believe.  Trust me, my mother probably thinks I'm going to hell because I don't believe like she does.  My boyfriend calls me a Deist, but I don't know.  I am still working out my basic belief structure at this point.  The one thing I know for sure is that I believe in God.  I could rant about how I have felt God's presence ad nauseum, but you will point out some part of my brain that works on emotion to make me feel euphoria (possibly).  I'm not trying to sound pissy here.  It is a very good question.  I believe in God because my gut tells me there is something there to believe in.

Quote:

Didn't say you did. I was pointing out that believing something without knowing why you believe can be extremely dangerous -- if more people had asked better questions, tens of thousands of Iraqi citizens would be alive. Belief without evidence is very, very dangerous.

Also true, and sorry for my misinterpretation. 

 

Quote:

It's great that you allow questions. I wonder if you've ever questioned whether faith is a virtue. I mean, believing something without evidence, or contrary to the evidence... is that something that is generally good in life? If not, why would it be good with regard to god?  

Again, these are not rhetorical questions. If you've answered all these questions for yourself, and don't mind others asking, I'm interested in precisely why you decided that the issue of god should be exempt from critical thought.

I don't really think of faith as a virtue.  It is what it is.  I don't think it is necessarily good or bad.

Quote:

Sorry to get into something a little technical with you, but you don't believe without proof. Belief is not a choice, it is a state of being. No matter how much I want to believe that I can walk through a wall, I can't make myself believe it. I believe that I cannot because of evidence to that effect. You believe because of something in your mind that convinces you... that's your proof. My contention, and the contention of atheists in general, is that your proof, if you examine it thoroughly, is not up to the standards you set for believing other things. If you were to discover this for yourself, you might stop believing in god. You wouldn't have a choice in the matter. You'd either believe or not.

To be honest, I don't really know how to respond to that. 

Quote:
My last question for you is this: Have you ever considered the difference between "belief in god" and "belief in belief in god"? Lots of people have these nebulous, undefined ideas about the existence of some indefinable thing, but when it comes down to it, they believe that believing in god is a good thing, so they live their lives with quasi-belief -- not a fully formed opinion that they genuinely believe, but a vague notion that it's a good thing to believe.

No I have never considered the difference.  That is also a valid point.  However, it is not applicable to everyone.  I don't believe because it is good to believe... the Westborough Baptist Church is proof that it is not always good to believe.  However, I have definitions for the God that I worship.  From what I have seen in life and from the way I feel towards certain incidents, I have developed an understanding of how I feel toward God and the bible and organized religion.  I decided several years ago that organized religion was about the worst thing for me.  Since I left church, I have a better understanding of myself and of God.  Not to say that how I went about things would work for anyone else.  This is just what worked for me.  There comes a point in conversations like these where it is less about my faith and what I believe, and more about why I'm wrong.  Which is fine, but you ask me questions that you know I will never come up with an answer to, that will satisfy you.  You have already formed your conclusion that God does not exist.  It just feels that I will have to run around in circles justifying myself forever.  I feel that my reasons for believing in God are valid.  Illogical?  Yes.  Irrational?  Yes.  Provable?  No.  But they are valid to me.

If in some way, I did what a lot of other theists do on these forums and not answer your questions, I am sorry but I did the best I could.  Let me know if you would like more explanation.

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Well, yes. You did what a

Well, yes. You did what a lot of theists do. You wrote a lot and said very little. I am saying that with as much respect as possible because I believe you tried to answer me, and I don't think you're doing the "apologetics mambo" that so many theists do just because they want to win the argument.

Quote:
I feel that my reasons for believing in God are valid. Illogical? Yes. Irrational? Yes. Provable? No. But they are valid to me.

Like I said, everything you believe is valid to you. If it wasn't, you wouldn't believe it. Of course, the feeling that something is valid has nothing to do with the actual validity of it. Again, I have to get a little technical on you about the word, valid. In logic, the word means simply that the equation is good. If you plug in true information, you'll theoretically get a true result if the equation is valid. Likewise, if you plug in false info, you tend to get false results.

Your reasons for believing in god may satisfy you, but they are not valid. I know this because in my decade or so of active atheism, I've encountered maybe ten thousand arguments for believing in god, and 100% of them were invalid. (As a matter of fact, all 10,000 of them boil down to two or three mistakes in logic!)

Illogical? Yes. Invalid? Yes. Irrational? Yes. Provable? No. So why do you believe? What other thing do you believe in that you admit doesn't or can't exist?

Quote:
There comes a point in conversations like these where it is less about my faith and what I believe, and more about why I'm wrong. Which is fine, but you ask me questions that you know I will never come up with an answer to, that will satisfy you. You have already formed your conclusion that God does not exist. It just feels that I will have to run around in circles justifying myself forever. I feel that my reasons for believing in God are valid.

Well, to be precise, it's all about faith. Faith is why you're wrong, and why you can't satisfy anyone who is looking for a good answer -- including yourself. You don't have to justify yourself to me. The interesting question is, why are you trying? Is there something about your belief that troubles you? How is it that you can get so far through my response, conceding my points, and still maintain that your faith is enough? This is the crux of what I'm trying to say to you. God is most likely the only thing in your life that you will accept on such shaky rationale. Why do you try so hard to believe in something that doesn't even have a demonstrable effect on your life?

Quote:
Originally, yes, i did believe in God because I went to church at a young age. My parents went to church, so I did, too. However, since that time, I have spent a large amount of time evaluating what I believe.

That's my whole point, wishkah. You wouldn't have believed in god if you hadn't been indoctrinated at a young age. If someone approached you with the idea now, and you'd never heard of it, you'd dismiss it as so much mythical mumbo-jumbo, most likely. I'm trying to get you to wrap your mind around the facts, and separate them from the emotional feelings that you attach to the idea.

(Rambo-Kitty's claws are still in. If anything sounds mean, I'm sorry. I'm just a call-em-like-I-see-em kitty. I'm genuinely interested in your answers, and am trying to help!)

Last thing: When I was a theist, I went through a phase very similar to you, where I probably was more a deist. When someone asked me the same questions I just posed to you, I got mad. I thought, "How dare they question my personal beliefs like that?! They are so arrogant to presume that they know my beliefs are invalid. My beliefs are personal! They have no right to talk to me that way!" Once I got over being mad, I realized that they weren't arrogant at all, and they did know that my belief was wrong. It's tough taking emotion out of the equation, but if you think about it, emotion hardly ever contributes anything good to a discussion when you're interested in cold, hard facts.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Wishkah311
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Hambydammit wrote: The

Hambydammit wrote:

The interesting question is, why are you trying?

I am trying to explain my beliefs to you because I was asked.  Several people (including my bf) have been asking what I believe and why.  After discussing this post with him (my guy on the inside of you atheists  : P) , I realized why I didn't answer your questions.  I didn't really understand what you were asking.  So for that I am sorry.  Now, I will outline what kind of God I believe in, and try to explain my reasons why.  

I believe in God because I have felt something that I can only identify as God.  I'm not talking about right after the powerful sermon when we are asked who wants to be saved.  I have felt it alone and knew that something was out there.  

After much debate and discussion, I have determined that I am a pantheist.  Forgive me for the confusion, I didn't know what a pantheist was.  Apparently it's me.  So, that helps matters some.  I find it hard to believe that anyone can ever understand God.  No organized religion can get it all right.  No book can get it all right.  I have taken from various religions what makes sense to me.  For example I believe in reincarnation.  Not necessarily that everyone is reincarnated, but that there is the option of reincarnation.  I do not know for sure (naturally) that this is the way of things.  However, I believe it is possible.  It makes sense to me.

Honestly, I'm not trying to cop out here, but I don't really know what all you are asking.  I'm not trying to be difficult.  I want to answer your questions, but I'm not sure what they are.  If I still am not giving you answers, please try to rephrase (or flat out simplify) and I will try again... I don't want this to become annoying.  I just want to do more than most theists and try to explain myself.  Not justify, but discuss.

Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.


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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

 

(Rambo-Kitty's claws are still in. If anything sounds mean, I'm sorry. I'm just a call-em-like-I-see-em kitty. I'm genuinely interested in your answers, and am trying to help!)

I think you did fine, hamby.  and I hope that my not appearing earlier on this thread is not taken as cowardice.  I just find that when you are already in a discussion/debate like this and it starts again somewhere else, the best thing you can do is let the conversation catch back up to you.  Again, I think you've done a very respectable job (and I appreciate it.)

 

No Gods, Know Peace.


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A note on the conversation

A note on the conversation between Wishkah and hambydammit:

 

Frankly when I started this thread, I did not necessarily think it was going to go this way.. you people totally screwed up my intent..hahahaha... I was actually waiting for a fundy...damn yous..damn yous....

But all joking aside, I do think that this was an interesting conversation, I did not chime in because, 1. I was just enjoying reading it and 2. it would have been pointless of me. I think Wishkah has been a good sport and I do commend both of you for being respectful, but that is only becuase both deserved it.

I will just say that...a belief in god is irrational, however, I also think that if people absolutely have to believe in god, it would serve society better if they practiced it in a more personal matter as Mishkah does. I think that most atheists are just pissed off at the intrusion of religion in politics, in our lives etc....

So...interestingly, what came out of this conversation is the realization that Wishkah is a pantheist. Smiling So Ham...you managed to convert her to pantheism, or at least made her realize it. hahaha... ;P

By the way there is a difference betwen pantheists and panentheists, whereas pantheists believe god is everything, and panentheists believe god is the animating force of everthing, but also transcends the universe.

 

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LeftofLarry wrote: Frankly

LeftofLarry wrote:

Frankly when I started this thread, I did not necessarily think it was going to go this way.. you people totally screwed up my intent..hahahaha... I was actually waiting for a fundy...damn yous..damn yous....

terribly sorry about that... but I didn't want you guys to be disappointed if no one showed up to talk... so I did.  Not to mention, some of you have mentioned an interest in my beliefs... so I figured this might be a good opportunity to discuss some of that.  (or try to in my case). 


Quote:
I will just say that...a belief in god is irrational, however, I also think that if people absolutely have to believe in god, it would serve society better if they practiced it in a more personal matter as Mishkah does. I think that most atheists are just pissed off at the intrusion of religion in politics, in our lives etc....

that is more than understandable... the day the Westborough Baptist Church affects my life and my country and my politics... I'll just have to move to France...  

Quote:
By the way there is a difference betwen pantheists and panentheists, whereas pantheists believe god is everything, and panentheists believe god is the animating force of everthing, but also transcends the universe.

Okay, until I get the chance to research pantheism and panentheism and all the other theism in detail, it might just be safer to say that I am a Wishkahtheist.... IT'S ALL MINE!!!!!  I'm the only person I know that believes how I do, so it might be best to just call it my own little branch of theism until further notice...  or whatever...

Hamby:

Thanks for being patient with me... I'm sorry I kept getting a little confused.  I had to bring out my pocket atheist dictionary and everything : P  And thanks for continuing the conversation.  I'll be on the look out for any more questions from you guys. Wink

Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.


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Hamby: By the way... I

Hamby:

By the way... I really like the kitty... I want a kitty... Not quite a rambo kitty, but a cuddly rambo kitty.   

Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.


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Wishkah311 wrote: it might

Wishkah311 wrote:

it might just be safer to say that I am a Wishkahtheist.

Uh oh.  Be very careful how you pronounce that.

Wishk-ahtheist.  Smile

Wishkah311, I commend you on your openness and honestly.  I always look forward to your posts.  You're cool in my book! 

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Susan

Susan wrote:

Wishk-ahtheist. Smile

Wishkah311, I commend you on your openness and honestly. I always look forward to your posts. You're cool in my book!

I agree. Smiling 

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Now anyone else would like

Now anyone else would like to answer my original question on this post?


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Awww... thanks guys....

Awww... thanks guys....


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Wishkah311 wrote: Awww...

Wishkah311 wrote:
Awww... thanks guys....

Well, I guess it says something coming from two high level mods in an atheist forum.  But as I've said before, if all theists were of your brand, I would not be so harsh in my criticism of religion.  Unfortunately though, that's not the case.

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LeftofLarry wrote: Well, I

LeftofLarry wrote:

Well, I guess it says something coming from two high level mods in an atheist forum. But as I've said before, if all theists were of your brand, I would not be so harsh in my criticism of religion. Unfortunately though, that's not the case.

 Sadly enough, you are too right.  I may have to buy my own island one day to get away from these kinds of people... I'll have a big party and only non-judgmental cool people can come... which means it will probably be me and a whole bunch of atheists... couple of pagans... maybe a buddhist or two.  BYOB!!!

Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.


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Wishkah311

Wishkah311 wrote:
LeftofLarry wrote:

Well, I guess it says something coming from two high level mods in an atheist forum. But as I've said before, if all theists were of your brand, I would not be so harsh in my criticism of religion. Unfortunately though, that's not the case.

Sadly enough, you are too right. I may have to buy my own island one day to get away from these kinds of people... I'll have a big party and only non-judgmental cool people can come... which means it will probably be me and a whole bunch of atheists... couple of pagans... maybe a buddhist or two. BYOB!!!

 

Sounds like a party..hahahaha.  I'll bring my friend Jack....Daniels that is. 

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LeftofLarry wrote: I'll

LeftofLarry wrote:

I'll bring my friend Jack....Daniels that is.

A man after my own heart!!!! 


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Wishkah311

Wishkah311 wrote:
LeftofLarry wrote:

Well, I guess it says something coming from two high level mods in an atheist forum. But as I've said before, if all theists were of your brand, I would not be so harsh in my criticism of religion. Unfortunately though, that's not the case.

Sadly enough, you are too right. I may have to buy my own island one day to get away from these kinds of people... I'll have a big party and only non-judgmental cool people can come... which means it will probably be me and a whole bunch of atheists... couple of pagans... maybe a buddhist or two. BYOB!!!

Sounds to me like a Freethinker's party! 

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