My God is superior too all men: YOU RESPOND

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My God is superior too all men: YOU RESPOND

YOU RESPOND

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----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: michael
Date: Mar 12, 2007 8:54 PM

hey rational response squad i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too you that may seem strange, but too me that is my hope. Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts? You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them, too me you are bunch of hypocrites. How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways? He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe). My God is superior too all men and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person. I do believe that every one will see his Son when the time comes & he will reign and his light will devour all his enemies. This is what the bible teaches and many churches teach a false thing, but when it all boils down i am free to believe and the burden of not believing is set on your shoulders. See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life. that is the problem with america every neighbor is divided against his neighbor and that is prophecied in the scriptures likewise so you would do wise to read because in that book that you say irrelevant or not rational there is wisdom that you desperately need.

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hey rational response squad

hey rational response squad i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too you that may seem strange,

It does.

 but too me that is my hope. Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts? You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them, too me you are bunch of hypocrites.

That is rather odd. Are you saying we shouldn't hold beliefs that offend others? Well, I tell you that I could not care less whose feelings I hurt. I care for truth.

 How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways?

We don't need to. The burden of proof is on he who asserts, not he who denies. We never claimed we could disprove such a claim. Of course, we also cannot disprove Thor with his hammer ruling the Earth, or Allah, or Vishnu.

 He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe)

I am sorry, but what I believe is that I require proof to hold that which I believe.

My God is superior too all men and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person.

"and cant no one see him". Lol, that is distinct Hillbilly grammer, my Southern friend (apologies if you are not actually from that region). And if God chooses only to reveal himself to certain people, then he obviously has not revealed himself to me ergo I do not believe in his existence unless I do get some proof. I don't think you understand that telling an atheist this is like telling a 55 year old man that Santa won't bring him presents this year.

 I do believe that every one will see his Son when the time comes & he will reign and his light will devour all his enemies.

Wow. And you criticise us for "offensive beliefs".

 This is what the bible teaches and many churches teach a false thing, but when it all boils down i am free to believe and the burden of not believing is set on your shoulders.

What? The burden of proof is on he who asserts not he who denies. If you assert, you must prove. If you cannot prove, you have no right to criticize those who don't believe.

 See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life. that is the problem with america every neighbor is divided against his neighbor and that is prophecied in the scriptures likewise so you would do wise to read because in that book that you say irrelevant or not rational there is wisdom that you desperately need.

Indeed. The Bible is a wonderful book. I especially enjoy that funny story where God sent his son to turn water into wine and get nailed to two planks of wood and survive rigor mortis for three days. 

 

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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michael wrote: ... i am a

michael wrote:
... i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too you that may seem strange, but too me that is my hope.

Couldn't you find a better god to "hope" for?  Maybe one that doesn't wrack you with guilt and resentment, but encourages you to eat ice cream and play video games and enjoy this life as much as you want, then sends you to heaven anyway? 

michael wrote:
Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts?

You don't believe in Buddha and Siva and Cthulu.  Can't you hear them crying?  Don't their feelings matter? 

michael wrote:

You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them,...

No, I know exactly how much I belittle others and mock them. 

michael wrote:
How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways?

How could you possibly disprove a god that is in a packet of horseradish at the bottom of a dumptser in New Orleans? 

michael wrote:
He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe).

He hides himself because he doesn't exist (what I believe). 

michael wrote:
My God is superior too all men...

Well my logic can beat up your god.  And your god's dad.

michael wrote:
... and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person.

Once he reveals himself to me, I'll start believing.  Good deal? 

michael wrote:
I do believe that every one will see his Son when the time comes & he will reign and his light will devour all his enemies.

 You must have an advance copy of the final Harry Potter book.  Please don't ruin the ending for the rest of us.

michael wrote:
See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life.

Agreed.  Let us struggle for this life, and not be deceived that there's a better life to come.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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Quote: hey rational

Quote:

hey rational response squad i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too you that may seem strange, but too me that is my hope.

A Christian who believes in god and Jesus?
That's just crazy talk...

Quote:
How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways? He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe).My God is superior too all men and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person.

"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -Delos B. McKown




That's all I got. The rest made my head hurt...


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I agree so far, but did the

I agree so far, but did the mods post this topic in the wrong forum? Laughing out loud


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michael wrote: hey rational

michael wrote:
hey rational response squad

Hi.

Quote:
i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too

Why?

 

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you that may seem strange, but too me that is my hope.

Hope for what? You just need to get your butt up and start doing something with your life. Stop waiting for some invisible man in the sky to do your dirty work.

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Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts?

Aww, do you need a hug?

Listen, Christianity cheapens life, it sucks.

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You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them, too me you are bunch of hypocrites.


Hypocrites? How?

 

Anyway, listen stupid, I receive hate mail from Christians all the time. In fact, some Christian managed to get my home address like a few weeks ago and threatened to cause harm. All because of my atheism. You Chrisitians think it's ok to hate/kill/harm atheists, you morons are WRONG.

 

Quote:
How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways?

We're not trying to, but the belief in a god(s) is pretty stupid.

 

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He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe).

Why is he hiding? He must not want us to see him then. Bastard.

 

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My God is superior too all men and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person.

Sounds like God has favorite people.

What a moron.

 

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I do believe that every one will see his Son when the time comes & he will reign and his light will devour all his enemies.

Devour?

Yeah, I had a feeling that Jesus was a cannibal.

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This is what the bible teaches and many churches teach a false thing, but when it all boils down i am free to believe and the burden of not believing is set on your shoulders.

 

Churches teach a false thing but the Bible doesn't?

You're a moron, they are BOTH wrong.

 

Quote:
See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life. that is the problem with america every neighbor is divided against his neighbor and that is prophecied in the scriptures

No it isn't.

Stop lying.

 

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likewise so you would do wise to read because in that book that you say irrelevant or not rational there is wisdom that you desperately need.

 

Oh please, I read the Bible.

Fairy-tale bullshit.

 

Bye.

 


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michael wrote:

michael wrote:
i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too

Join the club. Get the shirt.

Quote:
Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts?
Quote:

It hurts you enough to make you forget commas?

 

Quote:
You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them, too me you are bunch of hypocrites.

All atheists? Wow, you persicute ALL atheists as hypocrites becuase of what? Just us!

But then you probably don't realize we belittle people who belittle us.

 

Quote:
How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways?

Do you really want to know? Should I use my favorite argument?

 

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He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe).

I feel sorry for anyone in the Indian ocean, with god below them.

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My God is superior too all men and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person.

Hasn't done that to me... and a whole lot of people.

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I do believe that every one will see his Son when the time comes & he will reign and his light will devour all his enemies.

CTHULHU FHTAGN IA

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This is what the bible teaches

Show me where it says he eats people like the violent evil god he is! I MUST SEE!!!!

 

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and many churches teach a false thing,

Care to point out which churches, and what false things?

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i am free to believe and the burden of not believing is set on your shoulders.

Don't you mean "Burden of proof?"

If you don't mean that, then why am I not allowed to choose what I can believe?

If you do. Really? I got a big list of gods YOU can disprove.

 

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See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life.

Life=/=struggle we must overcome

rich bastards=struggle we must overcome

People who shove thier religious dick into others' face=struggle we must overcome

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that is the problem with america every neighbor is divided against his neighbor

I wonder why? Oh ya. "Vote for Jesus or you are not American!"

 

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and that is prophecied in the scriptures

When your religion is made for dividing, this isn't suprising.

Besides, we shouldn't have to worship the same diesty to live together, we just need to tolerate.

Quote:
book that you say irrelevant or not rational there is wisdom that you desperately need.

Bats aren't birds, rabbits don't chew cud.

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Actually, I think all men

Actually, I think all men are superior to his god - they actually exist. And even Hitler killed less people than the Christian god in the Bible!

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Quote: hey rational

Quote:
hey rational response squad i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too

Hey Michael -

You say you're a Christian, and believe in God and Jesus Christ too.  Do you believe that Jesus Christ IS God (as most Christian sects do)?  When you say you believe in them, does that mean you think they exist, or you are behind the things they represent (as in, "I believe in Freedom" - would mean that I'm FOR freedom, not necessarily that I believe it exists everywhere).

 

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Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts?

Michael, I don't want to belittle what you believe.  I want for you the same thing that your God, through his apostle, Paul, said he wanted for you -- "For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery."  And, yes, I am fully aware of how much that hurts.  There was a study done at Emory University in January of 2006 that proved through fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) that the brain rewards itself with neurochemicals similar to drugs when it holds on to emotionally-charged preconceived opinions.  To quote from the article:

Once partisans had come to completely biased conclusions -- essentially finding ways to ignore information that could not be rationally discounted -- not only did circuits that mediate negative emotions like sadness and disgust turn off, but subjects got a blast of activation in circuits involved in reward -- similar to what addicts receive when they get their fix.

So, Michael, I'm sure you feel uncomfortable when you don't get the addictive fix that you would get from your church brothers and sisters.  However, chemical delusions are rarely "good" for living things, despite how pleasing they may be.

Quote:
You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them, too me you are bunch of hypocrites.

 Actually, I don't claim I'm being persecuted.  I ceased wallowing in victim mentality when I abandoned my faith in a world view based on martyrdom. (I know those might be difficult words for your to understand, so I'll make it a little simpler - when I quit believing in a religion that glorifies being used, I quit feeling persecuted).  As for being a hypocrit, that's one of the milder names atheists have been labeled.  Usually we're labeled as sinners damned to eternal torment by people like you and by the book that you follow.

Quote:
How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways? He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe).

That's not what the Bible says about God, Michael.  The Bible says that God is evident everywhere, and so that even people who have never heard of him have no excuse for not believing, because he makes himself so visible to all.  But then, you and I know differently, right?  The fact remains that there are no signs of a god...not even a weak one...that is evident to anyone who isn't imagining it.  So, Mike, what do you do with Romans 1:20?  Do you claim that God lied when He said in his book that His attributes are are clearly seen, or do you say that He's NOT hiding?  You can't have it both ways.

Quote:
See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life.

Life isn't a struggle when you accept it as it is, rather than as you were led to believe it should be.  Michael, I think you're struggling because you were led to believe that life is a struggle.  What if I told you that somebody lied to you when they told you it was a struggle, and that life is pretty resilient, that life continues in the face of astronomical mathematical odds--people "attempt" suicide all the time, and most of the time they fail, because LIFE is strong--the will to keep going is extremely powerful.  Life survives floods, droughts, famine, disease...it just keeps on keeping on.  It's truly a beautiful thing, and that's why I have real issues with an imaginary diety who says "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life."  If somebody hated their life in this world, why would they want one for all eternity?  That doesn't make sense.  The jist of that scripture is to hate yourself, and, Michael, I'm not going to do that, because I know that life is good; that people don't need a god to know how to love each other, and have respect for each other.  In fact, it's the monotheistic religions of the world that have prevented human beings from reaching out to each other as brothers and sisters -- people who share with each other one and only one life on this lonely planet. 

Quote:
so you would do wise to read because in that book that you say irrelevant or not rational there is wisdom that you desperately need.

 Well, Michael, there is wisdom in every Dr. Seuss book I ever read, too; that doesn't mean I'm going to worship the Cat in the Hat.  There are also contradictions in the scriptures, and there are things that flat go against science, therefore proving God to not be all-knowing, all-loving, and all-present.  The scriptures say the only way for people to "behave" is to be punished, but science has taught us that people don't have free will -- that we respond to our brain chemicals, and our genetics, and our environment in extremely predictable ways, and that the BEST way to get people to behave is to immediately reward them when the proper behavior is exhibited (remember those brain chemicals I told you about at the beginning of my letter?  They're stronger than any book about a firey eternal punishment). 

 If your God were all-loving, and all-knowing, He would have made a way for ALL people to believe in Him and follow Him by making brain chemicals that would reward the body the same way it does when it eats when it's hungry, and sleeps when it's tired.  He either didn't understand his creature, or he's hateful towards some of his creatures, or most likely (and the conclusion that I've come to) he doesn't exist, and that he was "invented" by men to control weaker men through fear.

Jesus (in the Bible) said that perfect love casts out fear...so why did He need to invent a "Hell" an eternal punishment for people to fear, if what he wanted was for everyone to have perfect love?

 You're god is crazy, Michael.  And He hates life.  I hope some day you find something a little more positive and loving to put your hope in.Kiss


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Michael wrote: hey rational

Michael wrote:
hey rational response squad i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too you that may seem strange, but too me that is my hope. Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts?

Do you know how much you are a hypocrite for criticizing our disbelief because we're criticizing yours? Do you know how much you hurt others with your beliefs? How much people that share your beliefs hurt others?

Michael wrote:
You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them, too me you are bunch of hypocrites.

We are being persecuted. You prove it. Even more evidence abounds. I belittle and mock theists because theists belittle and mock me. They have my entire life. I have as much right to speak as you.

Michael wrote:
How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways?

Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. God is physically impossible.

Michael wrote:
He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe).

Why would an omnipotent being hide himself? It goes against your own religion to suggest it. It destroys free will to limit free will.

Michael wrote:
My God is superior too all men and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person.

I am superior to your god. I actually exist.

Michael wrote:
I do believe that every one will see his Son when the time comes & he will reign and his light will devour all his enemies.

Why would an all loving god make enemies?

Michael wrote:
This is what the bible teaches and many churches teach a false thing, but when it all boils down i am free to believe and the burden of not believing is set on your shoulders.

And we bear it.

Michael wrote:
See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life.

I can agree with that, as long as you leave fictional gods at the door.

Michael wrote:
that is the problem with america every neighbor is divided against his neighbor and that is prophecied in the scriptures likewise so you would do wise to read because in that book that you say irrelevant or not rational there is wisdom that you desperately need.

Man has always been divided. You can't claim something is an accurate prophecy when it's based on a human condition. You seek to divide us further by telling people to believe in the unbelievable. You are a far bigger detriment to society than we are.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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I wouldn't care about

I wouldn't care about religion at all if it didn't seem remiss not to. I was content being a disinterested agnostic until I realized what was at stake, who was making the decisions and what those decisions were based on. I think there's sufficient reason to assume all the popular religions are fictions, and where those fictions do no harm I don't care either way. I don't accost people on the street and ask them whether they've rejected Jesus today. But the religious moderates, the nominal believers, have a fringe of literalists speaking for them (and through public policy, speaking for us all) in advocacy of indefensible positions with the potential to harm, hinder and divide society in ways that will cause unecessary suffering and ignorance.
Religion holds zero interest for me, and I get no particular pleasure from rejecting it. In fact, I risk alienating some of my (nominally) Catholic family members by simply admitting my position. I'm overwhelmed, however, by the realization that we can't sit idly by while something that fails in even in a ballpark estimate of the real world tries to override thousands of years of accumulated knowledge in determining how we approach life.


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Quote: hey rational

Quote:
hey rational response squad i just want you too know that i am a christian and i believe in God and jesus Christ too you that may seem strange, but too me that is my hope.

Us thinking that you're strange gives you hope? Hey, whatever turns your crank.

Quote:
Here is my problem with you guys that you want to belittle what i believe do you know how much that hurts?

That isn't us causing pain in you. It's doubt.

Quote:
You and all atheists are like that you claim you are the ones that are being persecuted but you fell to realize how much you belittle others and mock them, too me you are bunch of hypocrites.

Persecution isn't being belittled and mocked. It's having everything taken from you. It's enduring unbearable torment and being destryoyed for who you are and what you believe. You're pretty far from persecution.

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How could you possibly disprove a god that is in heaven anyways? He hides himself so good and he is above us(what i believe).

I think you're hiding from common sense.

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My God is superior too all men and cant no one see him, unless he chooses to reveal himself to that person.

So why doesn't he reveal himself to us? If aknowledging his existance will give us so much hope, then why does he "hide"? Is he a sadist, or just a dick?

Quote:
I do believe that every one will see his Son when the time comes & he will reign and his light will devour all his enemies. This is what the bible teaches and many churches teach a false thing, but when it all boils down i am free to believe and the burden of not believing is set on your shoulders.

I've seen much better ways of attempting to make the burden of proof argument do a 180. Simple answer: you can't prove a negative. You can prove a positive. You are attempting to argue in defense of a positive. We are trying to argue in defense of a negative. Look left....Look right....What's that on your shoulders? Why, it's the burden of proof!

Quote:
See we need to unite we are brothers of the same struggle the struggle of life. that is the problem with america every neighbor is divided against his neighbor and that is prophecied in the scriptures likewise so you would do wise to read because in that book that you say irrelevant or not rational there is wisdom that you desperately need.

You know, making a prophecy of war and discontent is about the easiest prophecy to make. As long as there are differing opinions, there will be neighbors pitted against one and other. Funny how efficient religion has been in creating wars between neighbors.

 

 

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


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MattShizzle

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Actually, I think all men are superior to his god - they actually exist. And even Hitler killed less people than the Christian god in the Bible!

Isn't Anselms argument something like:

* Imagine something that is ultimate perfection.
* Only God is perfection itself.
* This thing of ultimate perfection would be even better if it existed.
* This thing can not therefore be perfect as it is only imagined.
* We exist.
* Therefore, we are better than god.


Sticking out tongue

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That is the Ontological

That is the Ontological argument. Aslem's argument was the opposite. God must exist because existence is better than non existence. The ontology still contains a logical leap because it is nonsensical to state the God must exist because it is possible to imagine a being which something no greater than can be conceived. Existence is better than nonexistence, but the key word in the first step was imagined. It does not have any bearing on whether such an entity actually exists.

Furthermore, if existence is better than nonexistence, then Aslem's ontology fails because God is defined as supernatural, which is defined as being the opposite of exist.

Theologians generally do not take this argument seriously anyway. 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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It was meant to be a tongue

It was meant to be a tongue in cheek response.  I was only aware of Aslem's ontology and derivitives of it so was just turning it around.

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