Bad Science + Bible = God Proof (YOU RESPOND)

Voided
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2006-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Bad Science + Bible = God Proof (YOU RESPOND)

YOU RESPOND:

legioninus wrote:
So you want proof that God exist eh? Tell me then how do you think the universe was but forged? I can only surmise that your response is the big bang theory or you do not care. Well let me surmise on the pretense that you did say the Big bang theory. Well if you said that well for a hardcore atheist (atheist ha! Sounds like oxymoron) you should know that that negates the 1 Law of Thermodynamics which clearly states matter cannot be created nor destroyed, oh but it gets even better it also negates the 2 law of thermodynamics which states the universe strives towards entropy. Well too bad I guess science cannot satisfy you, for it is just a food web of lies and contradictions. Your earth-bound-wise-head-logic will not explain the mysteries of the universe for we human minds are but to carnal, so hence logically a God has to exist. You shall be judged very egregiously for your false teachings to the minds of these children. It is written that a man that says to his heart there is no God is but a fool oh yes you failed to read that verse. You read what you want to read. I heard some of your kids that were but felled by your false teaching dissertating Mark 3 verse and at the end said I shall meet you in Hell, incongruent is it not if he were truly “atheist” hell exist not, or at least to him. Oh well I am just but a 24 year old “Bible thumper” as you scoffers call me and I am not so weak like the other kids you coerce to deny Christ and God to be felled by your gangrenous teachings. Yes if you read the bible it foresaw scoffers such as yourself, perhaps you should entertain yourself in knowing the repercussions of being a scoffer. Quibble all you want about how the bible is bunch of nonsense but deep in the corridors of your mind you fear death and every atheist fears the lack of existence, for even a hardcore atheist such as yourself and your affiliates fear that you shall amount to nothingness, but nay I say to thee death is but the beginning, where you go depends….to know read the bible you so despise.


Ophios
Ophios's picture
Posts: 909
Joined: 2006-09-19
User is offlineOffline
Quote: Yes if you read the

Quote:
Yes if you read the bible it foresaw scoffers such as yourself

Umm... predicting that people will disagree with you is not that big of a thing! But I guess you can call me god becuase I KNEW someone would disagree with me. 

Quote:
It is written that a man that says to his heart there is no God is but a fool oh yes you failed to read that verse.

Wow, the bible. Maybe you should prove god first.

Have you heard of the book of the dead? It says that the afterlife isn't all candy at first. In fact, I feel people like you should have mounds of trouble. I suggest you start ditching your bible. 

Quote:
(atheist ha! Sounds like oxymoron)

Proof ha! sounds like you have none. 

Quote:
you should know that that negates the 1 Law of Thermodynamics which clearly states matter cannot be created nor destroyed

And you present the fact YOU KNOW NOTHING! 

Quote:
Well too bad I guess science cannot satisfy you, for it is just a food web of lies and contradictions

 

then please get off of your computer, put down then newspaper, turn off the tube (Or telly). and live naked in a forest, without medication... you wouldn't want any of that food web of lies and contradictions on you.

AImboden wrote:
I'm not going to PM my agreement just because one tucan has pms.


MrRage
Posts: 896
Joined: 2006-12-22
User is offlineOffline
This is about the most

This is about the most pretentious letter I've seen here. What's with the "but nay I say to thee death is but the beginning" and "Well let me surmise on the pretense that you did say the Big bang theory." Surmise on the pretense?!

How can you claim the Big Bang violates the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, and then immediately say: "Well too bad I guess science cannot satisfy you, for it is just a food web of lies and contradictions." You're arguing against yourself! And what the fuck is a "food web of lies?"


Ophios
Ophios's picture
Posts: 909
Joined: 2006-09-19
User is offlineOffline
MrRage wrote: And what the

MrRage wrote:
And what the fuck is a "food web of lies?"

Politicians lie... in cast iron sinks?

AImboden wrote:
I'm not going to PM my agreement just because one tucan has pms.


triften
Silver Member
triften's picture
Posts: 591
Joined: 2007-01-01
User is offlineOffline
Ophios wrote: MrRage

Ophios wrote:

MrRage wrote:
And what the fuck is a "food web of lies?"

Politicians lie... in cast iron sinks?

Maybe it's some vague reference to science/evolution.

You know the Bible specifically warns about the dangers of smart people. They may be too wise to the world to be wise about god.

Kind of reminds me of "The Emperor's New Clothes."

-Triften 


MisterDax
Posts: 66
Joined: 2007-01-25
User is offlineOffline
"(atheist ha! Sounds like

"(atheist ha! Sounds like oxymoron)"

Err...so, you don't what an oxymoron is.

"you should know that that negates the 1 Law of Thermodynamics which clearly states matter cannot be created nor destroyed, oh but it gets even better it also negates the 2 law of thermodynamics which states the universe strives towards entropy."

Matter has always existed, there has never been any point in time when no matter has existed.

According to the second law, a process can locally decrease entrophy as long as the same process increases entrophy outside the process. The total sum of entrophy is positive.

"Your earth-bound-wise-head-logic will not explain the mysteries of the universe for we human minds are but to carnal, so hence logically a God has to exist."

We don't know everything so god exists? Sorry, doesn't work for me. 

"It is written that a man that says to his heart there is no God is but a fool oh yes you failed to read that verse."

The bible says something negative about people not believing in god? Want to guess how surprised I am? 

"Yes if you read the bible it foresaw scoffers such as yourself, perhaps you should entertain yourself in knowing the repercussions of being a scoffer."

Foresaw? How about used some common sense and realised that religious beliefs always confront some opposition?

 "Quibble all you want about how the bible is bunch of nonsense but deep in the corridors of your mind you fear death and every atheist fears the lack of existence, for even a hardcore atheist such as yourself and your affiliates fear that you shall amount to nothingness, but nay I say to thee death is but the beginning, where you go depends….to know read the bible you so despise."

If your only argument for god is threats, then get lost. I am not afraid of your pathetic threats. 


Rigor_OMortis
Rigor_OMortis's picture
Posts: 557
Joined: 2006-06-18
User is offlineOffline
legioninus wrote: So you

legioninus wrote:
So you want proof that God exist eh? Tell me then how do you think the universe was but forged? I can only surmise that your response is the big bang theory or you do not care. Well let me surmise on the pretense that you did say the Big bang theory.

Yes, I'll admit it's a possibility...

Quote:
Well if you said that well for a hardcore atheist (atheist ha! Sounds like oxymoron) you should know that that negates the 1 Law of Thermodynamics which clearly states matter cannot be created nor destroyed, oh but it gets even better it also negates the 2 law of thermodynamics which states the universe strives towards entropy.

We shall presume that these laws actually mean what you said (although they don't quite). Didn't God create "ex nihilo"? Didn't God violate these laws?

Of course, that only if you assume that God is bound to these laws. We can also assume that the (whateveritmighthavebeen) before the Big Bang wasn't bound to these laws either. It's in no way better or worse than the theist creation theory.

Quote:
Well too bad I guess science cannot satisfy you, for it is just a food web of lies and contradictions.

Well, perhaps when you understand what a closed system is, and when you will prove without a doubt that the Universe is a closed system, then perhaps we will give you credit. Until then, please learn some more physics, you're making a dopefish out of yourself.

Quote:
Your earth-bound-wise-head-logic will not explain the mysteries of the universe for we human minds are but to carnal, so hence logically a God has to exist.

OK, I do admit to leaving the existence of a god as an open possibility. So, which one is it? Yahweh? Allah? Buddha? Zamolxis?

Quote:
You shall be judged very egregiously for your false teachings to the minds of these children.

You shall also be judged for not obeying the Bible to the letter and not turning the other cheek to us, and for debating your belief, and... (erased out of lack of space)

Quote:
It is written that a man that says to his heart there is no God is but a fool oh yes you failed to read that verse.

No, we haven't. You, however, have failed to read the rest of the Bible, apparently.

Quote:
You read what you want to read. I heard some of your kids that were but felled by your false teaching dissertating Mark 3 verse and at the end said I shall meet you in Hell, incongruent is it not if he were truly “atheist” hell exist not, or at least to him.

Shakespeare also said that something must be rotten in the state of Denmark...

Quote:
Oh well I am just but a 24 year old “Bible thumper” as you scoffers call me and I am not so weak like the other kids you coerce to deny Christ and God to be felled by your gangrenous teachings.

Actually, you're a c******* i****, if you ask me...

Quote:
Yes if you read the bible it foresaw scoffers such as yourself, perhaps you should entertain yourself in knowing the repercussions of being a scoffer.

It foresaw dragons, giants and unicorns as well...

Quote:
Quibble all you want about how the bible is bunch of nonsense but deep in the corridors of your mind you fear death and every atheist fears the lack of existence, for even a hardcore atheist such as yourself and your affiliates fear that you shall amount to nothingness, but nay I say to thee death is but the beginning, where you go depends….to know read the bible you so despise.

Well, merely writing in a book that something exists after death don't make it so, kid...

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


adrienne (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
You atheists are the biggest

You atheists are the biggest fools on the face of the earth..lol...    The glass is always half empty right? .   If time and space need each other to exist then matter had to be created . To believe otherwise would be the same as believing an empty dark room could produce matter .   Atheists you know very little  and can prove almost nothing


jcgadfly
SuperfanBronze Member
Posts: 6789
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
adrienne wrote:You atheists

adrienne wrote:

You atheists are the biggest fools on the face of the earth..lol...    The glass is always half empty right? .   If time and space need each other to exist then matter had to be created . To believe otherwise would be the same as believing an empty dark room could produce matter .   Atheists you know very little  and can prove almost nothing

You do know that your Jesus condemns those who call people fools to hell, right?

I'll save you a seat by the hearth.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Where is the evidence that

Where is the evidence that time and space need each other to exist implies matter had to be created? That's a non-sequitor. Seriously y'all should stop letting unregistered people post.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


Kevin R Brown
Superfan
Kevin R Brown's picture
Posts: 3142
Joined: 2007-06-24
User is offlineOffline
This is the most well

This is the most well constructed, watertight, easily understandable arguments I have ever read. It's every jot and tittle is so inspirational, so enlightening, so Goddamn scientific, that there no longer lingers a single doubt in my mind:

You must be a sorcerer. Burn, motherfucker.

Burn

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Rev0lver
Posts: 171
Joined: 2007-02-24
User is offlineOffline
adrienne wrote:You atheists

adrienne wrote:

You atheists are the biggest fools on the face of the earth..lol...    The glass is always half empty right? .   If time and space need each other to exist then matter had to be created . To believe otherwise would be the same as believing an empty dark room could produce matter

No, because the original matter was always there. You guys need to stop saying the "biggest fools" thing because it just makes you look worse in the end.


Recrudescent
Posts: 8
Joined: 2008-02-25
User is offlineOffline
legioninus wrote:So you want

legioninus wrote:
So you want proof that God exist eh? Tell me then how do you think the universe was but forged? I can only surmise that your response is the big bang theory or you do not care. Well let me surmise on the pretense that you did say the Big bang theory. Well if you said that well for a hardcore atheist (atheist ha! Sounds like oxymoron) you should know that that negates the 1 Law of Thermodynamics which clearly states matter cannot be created nor destroyed, oh but it gets even better it also negates the 2 law of thermodynamics which states the universe strives towards entropy. Well too bad I guess science cannot satisfy you, for it is just a food web of lies and contradictions. Your earth-bound-wise-head-logic will not explain the mysteries of the universe for we human minds are but to carnal, so hence logically a God has to exist. You shall be judged very egregiously for your false teachings to the minds of these children. It is written that a man that says to his heart there is no God is but a fool oh yes you failed to read that verse. You read what you want to read. I heard some of your kids that were but felled by your false teaching dissertating Mark 3 verse and at the end said I shall meet you in Hell, incongruent is it not if he were truly “atheist” hell exist not, or at least to him. Oh well I am just but a 24 year old “Bible thumper” as you scoffers call me and I am not so weak like the other kids you coerce to deny Christ and God to be felled by your gangrenous teachings. Yes if you read the bible it foresaw scoffers such as yourself, perhaps you should entertain yourself in knowing the repercussions of being a scoffer. Quibble all you want about how the bible is bunch of nonsense but deep in the corridors of your mind you fear death and every atheist fears the lack of existence, for even a hardcore atheist such as yourself and your affiliates fear that you shall amount to nothingness, but nay I say to thee death is but the beginning, where you go depends….to know read the bible you so despise.

There are several complicated questions raised here, and many, if not all of them, are being studied as we speak. The current theory that we have for the beginning of this universe - the Big Bang - is rooted in general relativity and is quite powerful in explaining a lot about the history of our universe. However, we should realize that the Big Bang is not concerned with how this universe was created; it only tells us about what happened after the initial moments of creation. The Big Bang Theory describes everything that happened one Planck time unit (5.39 x 10^-44 seconds) after the beginning of this universe. So if the beginning is t=0, then the Big Bang describes what happened starting at t=5.39 x 10^-44 seconds. Legioninus has essentially constructed a strawman, portraying the Big Bang as something that it's not and then proceeding to attack it. Again: the Big Bang says nothing about how the Universe was "forged." It only talks about events after it was forged. It does not violate the laws of thermodynamics at all; that's just hogwash. The laws of thermodynamics came into existence with the existence of the universe anyway. Beyond that, Legioninus misunderstands the first and second laws. Not to harp on authority, but as a Physics major I think I have a fairly good grasp of what these laws actually state. So here they are for your pleasure:

First Law, Uber Version: The total internal energy of a thermodynamic system is equal to the energy added to the system by heat minus the energy lost as a result of work done by the system on its surroundings.

First Law, Noob Version (still correct, just simplified): Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it merely changes form.

Second Law, Uber Version: The entropy of an isolated thermodynamic system that is not in thermal equilibrium will increase and reach a maximum  value when the system attains thermal equilibrium.

Second Law, Another Version: Heat cannot spontaneously travel from cooler bodies or regions to warmer bodies or regions.

Second Law, Another Version: Heat cannot be fully converted into work.

There is no noob version for the Second Law. Any attempt at a noob version, like disorder increases or other such crap, would almost inevitably lead to an incorrect formulation of the law.

A good question here might be: if the Big Bang does not tell us about the creation of our universe, then what does? There are several candidate Theories of Everything (TOEs) right now. We don't know which one is ontologically correct; maybe none of them are right. TOEs attempt to explain all known materialistic phenomena. When we have the correct TOE - whenever that is - we will know for sure how our universe was created and we will also know a ton of other cool things, like if there are other universes out there. Right now there is simply much that we do not know, but hopefully we will discover a few amazing things soon at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland. The LHC will be operational later this year. Stay tuned! The Higgs boson, supersymmetric particles, and extra dimensions could be coming to a theater near you in just a few years.

"The greatest conquests, the ones that leave no regrets, are those wrested from ignorance." - Napoleon


ronin-dog
Scientist
ronin-dog's picture
Posts: 419
Joined: 2007-10-18
User is offlineOffline
More nutbags

Well, at least these people are helping with the theory that religion is a delusion disorder.

I don't fear death. I don't want to die, but I don't fear it. Religious folk seem to fear it more than most athiests.

adrienne (not verified): My glass is half full... athiest does not equal pessimist.

 

Once again: if the universe (matter and energy) could not have existed all along and needed a creator, then the same applies to god. Where did He come from?

 

Zen-atheist wielding Occam's katana.

Jesus said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51


Ohartless1 (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Just one question.

I'm interested in what some of you are calling "The Big Bang".  Without casting stones or vulgarity, could someone please explain this to me?  I'm interested in understanding from prior to the boom to today.


Christo (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Atheists are idiots who

Atheists are idiots who didn't go to church as a child.  The truth will come out upon death.  If I'm wrong (about my belief in Christianity) and there is no afterlife, what did I lose upon death?  Nothing.  If you are wrong, what do you lose?  EVERYTHING!!! 


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7525
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Christo wrote:Atheists are

Christo wrote:

Atheists are idiots who didn't go to church as a child.

I went to CCD, got my first holy communion, and then became a born again Christian at 13.

 

Quote:
The truth will come out upon death.

No it wont, you'll be dead.

 

Quote:
If I'm wrong (about my belief in Christianity) and there is no afterlife, what did I lose upon death?  Nothing.

Don't be so quick to answer your own question.  Instead of repeating like a parrot the most basic Christian argument ever made you should ponder what you would lose if you were wrong.  How much money do you give to a Church?  How much time do you spend worshipping?  How often do you view people who are smarter than you as idiots as you laid out in your opening statement?  I posit that if I am right you will have wasted your entire life on a lie.  What's worse is... it will be the only life you get.

 

Quote:
If you are wrong, what do you lose?  EVERYTHING!!! 

Does it even dawn on you for a split second: What if we're both wrong?  

What if there is a god who neither of us have ever heard of.  What if there is a god who allows intelligent, rational, and logical people into heaven.  What if the same god finds mindless sheep to be a waste of existence and he decides to exclude you from that heaven by destroying your soul?  Then it would appear I win.

Don't be a mindless sheep and repeat the bullshit you hear other Christians say.  Research.  If you care to research the lame argument you brought to the table, it's called Pascals Wager.

Here are some links for you to look at that about Pascals Wager:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/refutation_of_pascals_wager_by_massimo_pigliucci

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/you_respond_rationally_mailbag/2940

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/20258

http://asktheatheist.rationalresponders.com/topic/pascals_wager

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


rebecca.williamson
atheist
Posts: 459
Joined: 2010-08-09
User is offlineOffline
Christo wrote: Atheists are

Christo wrote:

Atheists are idiots who didn't go to church as a child.  The truth will come out upon death.  If I'm wrong (about my belief in Christianity) and there is no afterlife, what did I lose upon death?  Nothing.  If you are wrong, what do you lose?  EVERYTHING!!! 

I went to church as a child and I was forced to do so. I stayed in trouble for falling asleep out of sheer bordom. Keep in mind I was a very hyper child. The preacher yelling woke me up which pissed me off. That's beside the fact though. The thing is I sat there and listened about everything I did was a sin and I was going to hell for it. Anyway, I like the tropical temperatures so at least I'll keep a tan.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


rebecca.williamson
atheist
Posts: 459
Joined: 2010-08-09
User is offlineOffline
Oh and you proved nothing.

Oh and you proved nothing. Heard it all before.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13759
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Christo wrote:Atheists are

Christo wrote:

Atheists are idiots who didn't go to church as a child.  The truth will come out upon death.  If I'm wrong (about my belief in Christianity) and there is no afterlife, what did I lose upon death?  Nothing.  If you are wrong, what do you lose?  EVERYTHING!!! 

I went to church as a kid too. I knew less about other religions and less about science than I do now. My wanting to fit in was the cause for me believing, that and the idea of an invisible super hero was appealing to me, at the time, and I bought what my parents sold me and society sold me, at the time.

But my deconversion didn't happen until my mid 20s and took several years to go from believing in magical births and magical deaths, to "I don't know, but I think something might be out there", to finally saying to myself, even a generic concept of a god makes no sense to me.

Some here were lucky enough not to be fed the superstition of super hero worship. But most of us here had long struggles getting away from that vacuous fantasy. I was one of those, like most humans, indoctrinated int to the fantasy that a magical super protector will swoop it's followers off the tracks and vanquish the villain.

You are going to have a problem with us because we don't buy stories of magical brains with no body or location (yours or any other claimed in human history). You are going to have a problem with us because we do not buy claims of virgin births because science says it takes TWO sets of DNA to manifest into a zygote. You are going to have a problem with us because science says that human flesh does not die and survive rigor mortis.

I have much more knowledge of your religion than I did then. I have much more knowledge of other religions than I did then. I have much more knowledge of what scientific method is, than I did then. I was a sponge then. But I put away my invisible friend, just like a kid gives up on Santa when they grow up.

If anything is idiotic it is your emotional tirade expecting us not to challenge theistic claims. We can, we do, and we will, your personal pet god, or any other human of all the other religions as well.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Answers in Gene...
High Level Donor
Answers in Gene Simmons's picture
Posts: 4214
Joined: 2008-11-11
User is offlineOffline
Christo wrote:   Atheists

Christo wrote:

 

Atheists are idiots who didn't go to church as a child. The truth will come out upon death. If I'm wrong (about my belief in Christianity) and there is no afterlife, what did I lose upon death? Nothing. If you are wrong, what do you lose? EVERYTHING!!!

 

Sigh! Yet another lame version of Pascal's wager.

 

Apart from your post, the whole thing is lame because it does not define what god one must believe in to be accepted.

 

Perhaps we ought to believe in Wotan. Or Mumbo Jumbo god of the Congo? How about the god of the small furry creepy things from Alpha Centauri?

 

The thing is that if you believe in the wrong god, then you are at least as fucked in the end as those who believed in no god.

 

As far as my religion CV goes, I went to church as a kid. Most of my memories from that time took place in the nursery. A couple of times, I was allowed into the BIG People church but I never had anyone tell me what was going on.

 

A bit later, my father decided that the family would not go to church any more. Years later, after the divorce, my mother told me her version of what happened. It really doesn't matter if it was the truth or not.

 

Anyway, here I am, old enough to think for myself and still young enough to be impressed by people who claim to already know stuff. So I learned what was what. And I took it all in like it was supposed to be the big deal.

 

It was not until later, when I ended up dealing with other flavors of christianity that I learned that most people simply do not have the basic ideas down. When thinking about that stuff, I came to question what I had taken in years earlier. I found it to be no less wanting for basic sense.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

=


Awelton85
Superfan
Awelton85's picture
Posts: 143
Joined: 2009-01-03
User is offlineOffline
Sooooo... nobody is going to

Sooooo... nobody is going to call Poe on this one? It just seems too good to be true.