What you're doing is so wrong (you respond)

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What you're doing is so wrong (you respond)

Emails are pouring in after the Laura Ingraham appearance, I don't have time for them all. YOU RESPOND:

Quote:
What you're doing is so sad. You don't even know what it means to "deny the holy spirit." You can't just say it and then your soul is doomed. The holy spirit is your voice of reasoning. It's your conscience. It's that little voice that let's you know when you're doing right and wrong. You can't just say "I deny the holy spirit," you have to live your life in a state of rebellion and literally make the full conscience decision in your heart and mind not to live right and not to care about how you're living. It's not just doing something bad and being like "oh well," you have you make a genuine decision to not care about living your life in a state of rebellion. To live your life with every act and word to be evil. When you stop allowing the voice of reasoning, the holy spirit, to be your guide in life, that's what it means to deny the holy spirit.

Before even contemplating something as horrible as that, think of the affect that would have your life and your family. Think about what you're asking other people to do.

You don't realize the course of action that your tacking. If you want to know if God is real, ask Him. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him to reveals Himself in your life, and I garuntee that if you really want to know, He'll do it for you. And what's really amazing is that He's already been showing himself in your life. You might be able to control your alarm clock, but God is the one who keeps your heart beating, your lungs and other organs working so that you can live to see each day. Any food you eat, any job you have, anything that's ever happened that's good in your life, God has allowed that to happen whether you believe it or believe in Him. Anytime you drive your car and you get somewhere safely it's because God has allowed that to happen. Everything works on time in the universe because God holds everything in His hands. We don't control space and the planets that orbit. Any talent that you have or gift that you're good at, God gave it to you!

And most importantly I know God is real because of what He's done in my life. If you would like for me to send you material to help you understand the awesomeness of God, and that He is real, just let me know.

May God continue to Bless you and keep you in His care,

Tamika ******

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RationalResponseSquad

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Emails are pouring in after the Laura Ingraham appearance, I don't have time for them all. YOU RESPOND:
Quote:
What you're doing is so sad. You don't even know what it means to "deny the holy spirit." You can't just say it and then your soul is doomed. The holy spirit is your voice of reasoning. It's your conscience. It's that little voice that let's you know when you're doing right and wrong. You can't just say "I deny the holy spirit," you have to live your life in a state of rebellion and literally make the full conscience decision in your heart and mind not to live right and not to care about how you're living. It's not just doing something bad and being like "oh well," you have you make a genuine decision to not care about living your life in a state of rebellion. To live your life with every act and word to be evil. When you stop allowing the voice of reasoning, the holy spirit, to be your guide in life, that's what it means to deny the holy spirit. Before even contemplating something as horrible as that, think of the affect that would have your life and your family. Think about what you're asking other people to do. You don't realize the course of action that your tacking. If you want to know if God is real, ask Him. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him to reveals Himself in your life, and I garuntee that if you really want to know, He'll do it for you. And what's really amazing is that He's already been showing himself in your life. You might be able to control your alarm clock, but God is the one who keeps your heart beating, your lungs and other organs working so that you can live to see each day. Any food you eat, any job you have, anything that's ever happened that's good in your life, God has allowed that to happen whether you believe it or believe in Him. Anytime you drive your car and you get somewhere safely it's because God has allowed that to happen. Everything works on time in the universe because God holds everything in His hands. We don't control space and the planets that orbit. Any talent that you have or gift that you're good at, God gave it to you! And most importantly I know God is real because of what He's done in my life. If you would like for me to send you material to help you understand the awesomeness of God, and that He is real, just let me know. May God continue to Bless you and keep you in His care, Tamika ******

Words never fail me when I see this argument over and over and over and over and over.

Religion is like that old shampoo comerical. "And she told two friends and they told two friends and they told..............."

Look, we are not lost puppies. We know full well what we are doing and we are unafriad of threats of hell anymore than you should be afraid of threats from Allah or Thor.

Your "those poor people" attitude is a result of a lifetime of indoctrination of being told that your a chosen people. You have never been taught that other people have other thoughts than you. Insted of pitying us why dont you debate us without your rose colored goggles on.

What you did is not debate, it is regergitation of information that you blindly bought. If you can prove that your deity exists, we will convert. But if you expect this same argument that we have heard infinatly will work, you obviously have not been a part of the world of debate. There have been far better theists who have tried.

If that is your best shot, "I feel sorry for you", you might want to take up another hobby. This is the big leagues here and is no place for amatures or people who have thin skin. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Hello Tamika, and thank you

Hello Tamika, and thank you for taking time to respond.

You state that you don't think I know what I'm doing when it comes to blasphemy. Well, I think you underestimate me to a degree. Speaking for myself, I am quite well versed in the bible and various forms of christianity, as well as the beliefs of several other mainstream religions. I believe that the blasphemy we recommend as part of the 'Blasphemy Challenge' is sufficient to ensure eternal damnation, assuming the christian god described in the bible is the one true god. Of course, there is no evidence to suggest this, although I remain open, as always, to evidence that supports the existence of this god, or any other god who chooses to reveal him/her/itself.

You see Tamika, myself, and many other atheists are former believers. Yes - I was a confirmed, practicing, devout christian at one point in my life. However, I have come to understand that life is far MORE fulfilling and empowering to be personally accountable for my actions. To revel in what answers science has to offer about the world around me, and to delight in what we learn as the human race continues to grow and learn.

You want me to ask god to reveal himself to me? Well, I have, many times. He's not answering. So - the burden of proof is now on him. If he wants me to believe (and he is a jealous god after all) then he'd better pick up the phone, or drop me an email.

If you would like to learn more about how atheists look at the world, and the community we have, please visit my website at www.rationalresponders.com.

Thank you for praying for me, we'll be thinking for you.

Regards,

xxx xxxxxxx


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AntiqueHunter, thanks for

AntiqueHunter, thanks for responding on our behalf, but this forum is designed for you to respond from your perspective, and then we invite the original emailer here to discuss further.  She sent us another email, hopefully she'll register:

 ____________________________

I don't get it, I read all of your so called justifications to God being some angry killer but are you missing the part where you yourself have written "God delivers....."  That's important.  If you want to know the full story, read it.  God is there and protects those who listen and follow Him, and he even still blesses those who disobey.  Example, David and Bathsheba.  David had sex with another man's wife and got her pregnant.  That was wrong, and so God took his child, but the next child,
and David acknowledge that he has sinned against God.  So David's next child lived and went on to be a king.  There are many more examples, and if you would like to receive material just let me know. 

Oh and another thing, you can't coach people into denouncing the Holy Spirit in their lives.  If it's sincere, they will chose a life of rebellion on their own.  There's no script for choosing Satan over God.  And since you claim to be antheist, what or who do you believe in, or what is your god?

- Brian Sapient


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Ripple
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Hello Tamika, and thank you

Hello Tamika, and thank you for having a Vision in the world. Sure it may be a little hindered by who and what God really is, but you still have a vision. You have a lot more then what any of these "rational" atheists seem to believe or not want to believe in.

If any of you could not disprove God..would any of you convert? 

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


Ripple
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You are full of very wise

You are full of very wise insight Sapient. Use that to your advantage. Provoke me to ask and think about the right things in life. Not just a Christian God. But Nature. That's what I ask of people just like you. Help me understand.

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Hello Tamika, First of all,

Hello Tamika,

First of all, I'd like you to know that not too long ago I was a very devout Christian also.  One of the main reasons I stayed a Christian for so long was because I felt somewhat like you.  I wanted to believe there was a God out there guiding and protecting me.  I wanted to think that I had an immortal soul and that there was a heaven that awaited me.  It's easy to see miracles or answered prayers all around you when you really want to.  Though, none of those answered prayers are things that were impossible, most are, in all honesty, very likely outcomes. This reasoning for belief in God is only appealing in that it makes people feel good.

Well, putting aside what we want to believe and what gives us warm fuzzy feelings inside, there is no really good reason to believe in God.  If there was good evidence to support the existence of God, I would be among the first to jump right back on to that bandwagon.  But, unfortunately, there is evidence, only not which supports God - quite the opposite, in fact.

But, if you never lose your faith, do understand how we, atheists, think.  We have no belief in the God of the Bible or any other god of any other religion.  We don't go through life with intent to do 'evil,' though most Christians see it that way.  In fact, most of us strive for good things.  

We are not without a sense of spirituality or morality, only, we do not base our ethics on an ancient religious book - a book that is, believe it or not, filled with hate and contradiction.  Though, granted, it does have a great deal of compassion in its teachings also.  I am not saying that everything in the Bible is bad, but if you have to live by it, you have to adopt the bad as well, and it can get pretty bad.

One last thought - when I did lose my faith initially, it had very little to do with scientific evidence, but rather, the vast amount of contradictions and irrational concepts in the Bible.  That led me to become a deist.  Then, later, after studying the scientific evidence more deeply, I became an agnostic - then, finally, an atheist.  I went through all of this without ever corresponding with another atheist or anyone who thought like me - much less in person, and in the Bible Belt of all places.

I hope this helps understand where many of us atheists are coming from.  Many of us understand where you are coming from, as most of us were once where you are now.

Take care,
Krehlic

Flying Spaghetti Monster -- Great Almighty God? Or GREATEST Almighty God?


Ripple
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Hello Tamika, First of all

Hello Tamika,

First of all I'd like to say I've never been a devout Christian. Only went to church on easters...oh and I had to do community service(was a bitch)

I've been given the option by an ordained minister to be "saved" and declined, claiming that there is no "saving" to be done.

For my whole life, I was an atheist. It gave me much insight, and a deep understanding of logic and true knowledge and it gave me a way to really think, what if.

After doing a lot of thinking, about a lot of science, I realized that a lot of things just seem to fit together. 

After that, I said, what if God exists? Does he make peoples lives better? I started a journey that would be free from blindness, conviction, and pre-determinism. I was essentially agnostic with an atheists mind.

Now, I have lived a life of sin, corruption, getting high, and have no realized anything, or really had any "enlightenment" upon anything that I didn't already know.

Never in my life once had I prayed to God, or Jesus. Did I fear those two figures? With my dear life, I was scared shitless of them. That is how I was controlled.

I gave up a lot of fear and realized that my idea of a god is very loving, compassionate, and could really care less who or how many people believes in it(if it exists)

So basically, I created a Christian belief, by myself, with no help from a monk, or priest, or person telling me how to believe, and I began a relationship with this entity, the memiac identity know as Jesus Christ. Did I worship him as someone all that better then me or you? Nope. I loved him though, for what he was trying to do to mankind. Unfortunately man has triumphed in carrying out a vision that was and I repeat was not Jesus's vision, and for that, he really did die for the sins of man, in my mind I beg your pardon. Did any Bible or word or set of words tell me something like that? What If I told you Tamika, that my life was not based upon fear or on any book any more, but rather love.

Would that be a crazy idea...ideal..passion in life, Passion for the Christ? Is my Christian ideal the word of god? I believe it to be not so. But is it my own idea, my own thoughts, my own conviction...that hey, may change the minds of a lot good people?

So Tamika, I have decided to live a life of questions. Question of everything, from both sides of the wall. I'm open to all suggestions.

And that is how I became a Christian. A Christian who's weapon is not a sword(a cross) and is not a book anymore. Its a vision for the future. Then ask me, how does it feel to be a Christian, in Christs vision, not the Bibles vision? Ask me PLEASE how that feels because I would really really love to tell you Tamika.

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Ok, I'm sorry. I know this

Ok, I'm sorry. I know this is for response to Tamika.
But, in response to Ripple:

You just made up a new god one day and decided to name him Jesus Christ?
...and so you call yourself a Chrsitian?
...and claim to also be an atheist?
...and you think that somehow you can identify with real Christians?

I'm sorry, but that's just insane - and not in a good way.  Even the homeless guy preaching about the end of the world has more sense than that. 

Flying Spaghetti Monster -- Great Almighty God? Or GREATEST Almighty God?


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Ah - misinterpreted the

Ah - misinterpreted the OP.  FWIW - my response was my own, apart from the 'visit my website' bit - I just wanted to provide you something that was basically cut & pastable (from my perspective.)

 


Ripple
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Why do you pose such

Why do you pose such questions of morality and of faith?

Does my "religion" pose much of a real threat to humanity.(who knows?)

Does Christianity, as history has tryed to shown us, pose much of a real threat to humanity.(yes)

Does your view of atheism pose much of a threat to humanity(talking about awaking a beast that pisses off A LOT of people)



You just made up a new god one day and decided to name him Jesus Christ?----I fell in love with Jesus Christ one day, because I realized what he really died for, and what he wanted to die for.
...and so you call yourself a Chrsitian?---Not the same Christian who thinks Jesus Christ died for anything other then what I think Jesus died for(ask me to explain what I think he died for and I'll reply)
...and claim to also be an atheist?---God may not exist at all. What an awesome, great, and very rational concept.
...and you think that somehow you can identify with real Christians?---If I can somehow show them a way to truly have a relationship with Christ. Because you know as well as I do that there is no such relationship with Christ at this point in time.

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Quote: What you're doing is

Quote:
What you're doing is so sad. You don't even know what it means to "deny the holy spirit." You can't just say it and then your soul is doomed.

You're absolutley correct. That might have something to do with the fact that there is no holy spirit, though. Sorry to pick at semantics.

Quote:
The holy spirit is your voice of reasoning. It's your conscience. It's that little voice that let's you know when you're doing right and wrong.

Really? I thought my conscience was a mental faculty aquirred by centuries of mental and moral evolution.

Listen, if your conscience is god's voice in your ear, then why don't we all have the same standards placed on what's good and what isn't? It's safe to say that a part of this reasoning is that murder is generally wrong. So why is it that there is murder? Could it be that every single person who has ever committed an act of murder actively and knowingly denied the holy spirit? If so, then explain every holy war ever perpetrated in the history of humanity.

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You can't just say "I deny the holy spirit," you have to live your life in a state of rebellion and literally make the full conscience decision in your heart and mind not to live right and not to care about how you're living.

Can you point out where in the bible it says that?

Quote:
It's not just doing something bad and being like "oh well," you have you make a genuine decision to not care about living your life in a state of rebellion. To live your life with every act and word to be evil. When you stop allowing the voice of reasoning, the holy spirit, to be your guide in life, that's what it means to deny the holy spirit.

Before even contemplating something as horrible as that, think of the affect that would have your life and your family. Think about what you're asking other people to do.

Do you honestly believe this? We're talking about denying the holy spirit here, not undoing the idea of basic morality itself. I've heard alot of people say that the absence of faith reaps the destruction of morality, but this admission is by far the most belligerent, absurd, naive and contemptible way I have ever heard it said. Do you really think you'll transform into some immoral demon, capable of commiting the most heinous crimes without remorse if you give in to reason? The very idea of that is boggling.

Quote:
You don't realize the course of action that your tacking. If you want to know if God is real, ask Him. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him to reveals Himself in your life, and I garuntee that if you really want to know, He'll do it for you.

*ahem* Excuse me? Mister god? Can you show yourself to me, please?

That's funny, nothing happened. Oh wait, let me guess, I did it wrong, right? I had this disscussion with jesuslovesyou already.

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And what's really amazing is that He's already been showing himself in your life.

And yet, I've managed to aimlessly wander through my 26 years on this planet as an atheist. Why haven't I seen him yet? Is he particularly short?

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You might be able to control your alarm clock, but God is the one who keeps your heart beating, your lungs and other organs working so that you can live to see each day. Any food you eat, any job you have, anything that's ever happened that's good in your life, God has allowed that to happen whether you believe it or believe in Him. Anytime you drive your car and you get somewhere safely it's because God has allowed that to happen. Everything works on time in the universe because God holds everything in His hands. We don't control space and the planets that orbit. Any talent that you have or gift that you're good at, God gave it to you!

Well, isn't that nice. So what about all of the people who died of heart disease, lung cancer, liver disease, starvation and car accidents in the past year alone? Why were those people not graced good health, a stocked fridge and reliable brakes? So I should credit ever good day I have to god. What about my bad days? Obviously, I can't blame myself, since the holy spirit guides my moral actions and god makes me a better driver. Is it the devil? If god can control my cholesteral level, why can't he take care of satan?

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And most importantly I know God is real because of what He's done in my life

I suppose you'd have to believe that if you credited god with every personal success you've had, not matter how trivial. Oh except for your alarm clock; you handled that.

 

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


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"The holy spirit is your

"The holy spirit is your voice of reasoning. It's your conscience. It's that little voice that let's you know when you're doing right and wrong."

I don't think your interpretation does not fit within the christian mythology. According to the mythology, the Holy Spirit was released among people shortly after Jesus ascended. That means that the Holy Spirit was not among people before that. According to your interpretation, these people did not have 'voice of reasoning', 'conscience' and 'the little voice telling what is right and wrong'. We clearly know that is not the case.

  "If you want to know if God is real, ask Him. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him to reveals Himself in your life, and I garuntee that if you really want to know, He'll do it for you"

 When you say 'if you really want to know, Hell'll do it for you, you are leaving yourself a little backdoor. If prayer fails, you can always claim that the person praying just didn't want to know.

 The test is also unfair, because it doesn't yield negative results. The negative results (no answer) is explained as flaw in the experiment rather than a negative result. I'll give you an analogy: You go to an HIV-test. The test results come back as negative, but the doctor says that you still have HIV. The doctor explains that the test gave negative result due to some flaw in the sample; eg. either you ate or drank something before the sample extraction, the sample was mishandled or badly extracted.

 

 Then to your long text about what god (allegedly) does in your lives. If god is responsible for the functionality of our organs, then god is also responsible for the failure of our organs. If you thank god for driving home safe, you must curse god for those who have died in car accidents. You can't just arbiterarly take all good things and make god responsible for them. If god is responsible for the good, then god is also responsible for the bad...until proven otherwise.


zarathustra
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Tamika wrote: ...what's

Tamika wrote:
...what's really amazing is that He's already been showing himself in your life. You might be able to control your alarm clock, but God is the one who keeps your heart beating, your lungs and other organs working so that you can live to see each day. Any food you eat, any job you have, anything that's ever happened that's good in your life, God has allowed that to happen whether you believe it or believe in Him. Anytime you drive your car and you get somewhere safely it's because God has allowed that to happen. Everything works on time in the universe because God holds everything in His hands.

I certainly understand your thinking Tamika, but you have to consider the whole picture. There are plenty of people whose hearts, lungs and other organs do not work. People starve. People lose their jobs. Does god allow this to happen, whether or not I believe in him? When someone drives his or her car and gets injured or killed, is it because god allowed that to happen? Do tsunamis and hurricanes work on time because god holds everything in his hands? If you are going to praise god for every good thing in life (and there are certainly many good things in life), it is only fair to curse god for every bad thing in life (and there are many).

Tamika wrote:
...you can't coach people into denouncing the Holy Spirit in their lives. If it's sincere, they will chose a life of rebellion on their own. There's no script for choosing Satan over God. And since you claim to be antheist, what or who do you believe in, or what is your god?

I am yet to hear of anyone "coaching" someone into denouncing the holy spirit. Whether or not it's happening, I can certainly tell you I was coached into accepting god, jesus and the holy spirit when I was a child, and that seems to go for many of the other people here. If we allowed children to choose "on their own", as you say, it would be interesting to see how many actually become believers. And please realize that "not choosing god" does not mean "choosing satan". I simply won't choose something I don't have evidence for.

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

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Tamika wrote:

Tamika wrote:
What you're doing is so sad. You don't even know what it means to "deny the holy spirit." You can't just say it and then your soul is doomed.

Oh in that case tell us how to do it right.

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The holy spirit is your voice of reasoning. It's your conscience. It's that little voice that let's you know when you're doing right and wrong.

I'm sorry, but if you are hearing voices in your head you might want to see a doctor.

Quote:
You can't just say "I deny the holy spirit," you have to live your life in a state of rebellion and literally make the full conscience decision in your heart and mind not to live right and not to care about how you're living.

I find it interesting you define "deny the holy spirit" as something like that. I guess it goes back to your idea of the holy spirit however I think you defined it like that so that people can't commit the unforgiveable sin you fear so much.

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It's not just doing something bad and being like "oh well," you have you make a genuine decision to not care about living your life in a state of rebellion.

If you mean not following all the laws in your bible then yes I do live "in a state of rebellion," but if you mean being completely immoral I think that would mean I few people can never have forgiveness of things. That would mean repenting doesn't always work, but that if your definitions are correct.

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To live your life with every act and word to be evil. When you stop allowing the voice of reasoning, the holy spirit, to be your guide in life, that's what it means to deny the holy spirit.

Wait now the holy spirit is reason? Does that mean I can use the holy spirit to disprove the existence of condrodictroy gods?

Quote:
Before even contemplating something as horrible as that, think of the affect that would have your life and your family. Think about what you're asking other people to do. You don't realize the course of action that your tacking.

If I commit an unforgiveable sin to show how I don't believe in your god, assuming the sin isn't physically harming someone, how does it harm them? Their feelings? I could say the same when religious holy books state I should be killed and then I go to the most horrible place imaginable just for not having faith.

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If you want to know if God is real, ask Him. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him to reveals Himself in your life, and I garuntee that if you really want to know, He'll do it for you.

There are people here who asked for god to "reveal himself" while they were believers and they didn't get shit.

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And what's really amazing is that He's already been showing himself in your life. You might be able to control your alarm clock, but God is the one who keeps your heart beating, your lungs and other organs working so that you can live to see each day.

No, a part of my brain does that. Go read some science books please.

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Any food you eat, any job you have, anything that's ever happened that's good in your life, God has allowed that to happen whether you believe it or believe in Him.

What about the bad stuff wouldn't that be your god as well?

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Anytime you drive your car and you get somewhere safely it's because God has allowed that to happen.

Well I guess all those deaths are god being in a bad mood...

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Everything works on time in the universe because God holds everything in His hands.

Do you mean because we don't know god did it?

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We don't control space and the planets that orbit.

Correct, we don't control the physics of the universe. Point?

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Any talent that you have or gift that you're good at, God gave it to you!

Way to reduce the importance of hard work and accomplishments...

Quote:
And most importantly I know God is real because of what He's done in my life. If you would like for me to send you material to help you understand the awesomeness of God, and that He is real, just let me know.

Why didn't you give it in the first place?

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May God continue to Bless you and keep you in His care,

May people continue to think for you and keep you in their care.

 

Quote:
I don't get it, I read all of your so called justifications to God being some angry killer but are you missing the part where you yourself have written "God delivers....." That's important. If you want to know the full story, read it.

If you mean the bible most here have read more then one version and a couple learn the greek so they can read the older versions.

Quote:
God is there and protects those who listen and follow Him, and he even still blesses those who disobey. Example, David and Bathsheba. David had sex with another man's wife and got her pregnant. That was wrong, and so God took his child,

Hmmm. That’s interesting god kills babies when you disobey, I'll keep that in mind.

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but the next child, and David acknowledge that he has sinned against God. So David's next child lived and went on to be a king. There are many more examples, and if you would like to receive material just let me know.

No, that’s not really necessary you already stated your god is the only thing that makes anything good so anything I classify as good you classify as god did it. What’s the point in giving examples if we already know the formula?

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Oh and another thing, you can't coach people into denouncing the Holy Spirit in their lives. If it's sincere, they will chose a life of rebellion on their own.

Well I think Brian Flemming was "coached" on what blasphemy of the holy spirit was and thats why we used the wording we did. And most of the people who decide to commit the blasphemy do so to show how they don't believe. Personally I came to my conclusion on my own.

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There's no script for choosing Satan over God. And since you claim to be antheist, what or who do you believe in, or what is your god?

LOL so not choosing god means I choose satan? What makes you think I must have a god? Do you not know what it means when someone says they’re atheist?


BobSpence
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And what's really amazing

And what's really amazing is that He's already been showing himself in your life. You might be able to control your alarm clock, but God is the one who keeps your heart beating, your lungs and other organs working so that you can live to see each day. Any food you eat, any job you have, anything that's ever happened that's good in your life, God has allowed that to happen whether you believe it or believe in Him. Anytime you drive your car and you get somewhere safely it's because God has allowed that to happen. Everything works on time in the universe because God holds everything in His hands. We don't control space and the planets that orbit. Any talent that you have or gift that you're good at, God gave it to you!

What is your basis for asserting all this?

If God is actually this directly involved in such detail of our life, he is logically to blame for all the bad things which happen everywhere, unless you want to say either that Satan has as much power as God, or that somewhow we ourselves are as powerful as God in being able to cause such things to happen. Or that all the bad things 'just happen', in which case why can't the good things also happen without needing God to either cause or allow them to happen?

If God, or the 'Holy Spirit', is what gives us our moral feelings, how is that I and many others have found when first hearing about much of what the Bible has God commanding and encouraging his 'children' to do, found it deeply repellent and offensive, and in fact was a key point in driving many to reject the whole thing??

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


Vastet
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Quote: What you're doing is

Quote:
What you're doing is so sad.

Why is it sad to liberate people from brainwashing?

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You don't even know what it means to "deny the holy spirit."

Well frankly it doesn't matter, since there isn't any spirit. But then, from what I've seen, it wasn't really the point in the first place.

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You can't just say it and then your soul is doomed. The holy spirit is your voice of reasoning. It's your conscience.

It is not. My conscience is my own. If there was some spirit that was the conscience of everyone, then everyone would have the same conscience. Since it is provable that everyone does not, your theory about god is provably fiction.

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It's that little voice that let's you know when you're doing right and wrong.

I hope you are paraphrasing. If you actually hear voices in your head that you cannot identify as yourself you need to see a psychiatrist. If you are paraphrasing, refer to above.

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You can't just say "I deny the holy spirit," you have to live your life in a state of rebellion and literally make the full conscience decision in your heart and mind not to live right and not to care about how you're living. It's not just doing something bad and being like "oh well," you have you make a genuine decision to not care about living your life in a state of rebellion.

Again, it doesn't really matter. Show us a foolproof way to irrevocably blaspheme against your god and you'll have people lining up to do it. The challenge is a claim that we are not afraid of your false god.

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To live your life with every act and word to be evil.

Evil is a concept based on morality. It is not real. Therefore, according to you, it is impossible to blaspheme against god. Fine. But we can still protest it.

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When you stop allowing the voice of reasoning, the holy spirit, to be your guide in life, that's what it means to deny the holy spirit.

You have it backwards. Reason is to deny that which does not exist. Reason is not to believe in that which is unbelievable.

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Before even contemplating something as horrible as that, think of the affect that would have your life and your family. Think about what you're asking other people to do.

My atheism has had no negative effect on my friends and family. In fact, I can argue that it's had a positive one.

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You don't realize the course of action that your tacking.

I most certainly do. You are deluding yourself.

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If you want to know if God is real, ask Him. Ask God to reveal Himself to you. Ask Him to reveals Himself in your life, and I garuntee that if you really want to know, He'll do it for you.

I tried that for awhile as a kid. Your god never showed itself in any capacity.

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And what's really amazing is that He's already been showing himself in your life.

No it hasn't.

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You might be able to control your alarm clock, but God is the one who keeps your heart beating, your lungs and other organs working so that you can live to see each day.

Nope. I control that. By eating, and breathing. As well as other acts.

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Any food you eat, any job you have, anything that's ever happened that's good in your life, God has allowed that to happen whether you believe it or believe in Him.

Nope. I get my own food. I got my own job. I and I alone am responsible for the amount of happiness I experience. And I am greater for it.

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Anytime you drive your car and you get somewhere safely it's because God has allowed that to happen.

Nope. It's a combination of my skills/intellect/adaptation speed and the skills/intellect/adaptation speed of others on the road. It has nothing to do with an imaginary friend.

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Everything works on time in the universe because God holds everything in His hands.

Impossible conclusion to an impossible scenario. You should write fiction. You're well suited to it.

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We don't control space and the planets that orbit.

Obviously. Where the hell did this come from?

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Any talent that you have or gift that you're good at, God gave it to you!

Nope. I gave it to myself. Thanks for trying to make everything in my life meaningless. Good thing you people always fail in the attempt.

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And most importantly I know God is real because of what He's done in my life.

Self delusion.

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If you would like for me to send you material to help you understand the awesomeness of God, and that He is real, just let me know.

If you would like for me to send you material proving the awesomeness of reality, just let me know. Until then, enjoy your fiction.

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I don't get it, I read all of your so called justifications to God being some angry killer but are you missing the part where you yourself have written "God delivers....." That's important. If you want to know the full story, read it.

I read parts of it. A disgusting combination of tales written most poorly. I couldn't continue without feeling simultaneously sick and bored stiff.

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God is there and protects those who listen and follow Him, and he even still blesses those who disobey. Example, David and Bathsheba. David had sex with another man's wife and got her pregnant. That was wrong, and so God took his child,

I can cut you off here, since the act described is incredibly immoral. A child should not suffer for the crimes of the father. Dispicable.

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but the next child,
and David acknowledge that he has sinned against God. So David's next child lived and went on to be a king. There are many more examples, and if you would like to receive material just let me know.

The first was disgusting enough. I'll thank you to keep other examples to yourself.

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Oh and another thing, you can't coach people into denouncing the Holy Spirit in their lives. If it's sincere, they will chose a life of rebellion on their own.

If it weren't for people like you who try to brainwash others after being brainwashed yourself I'd agree. Unfortunately the only way to break a brainwashing is to show how stupid the concepts it's based on are. Which is what we do.

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There's no script for choosing Satan over God.

Since there is neither a satan nor a god, it really doesn't matter.

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And since you claim to be antheist, what or who do you believe in, or what is your god?

It's atheist. And if you were to look up the term, it means one who does not believe in any god at all.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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So all the good that's

So all the good that's happened in my life is because of God?  I hate hearing people say this, giving credit to all the good things they've done to an invisible being. 

Give some credit to yourself.  

Are all the bad things your fault?  God's?  Satan's? 

Damn, this is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to theists.

 


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Tamika, if you're not an

Tamika, if you're not an evangelical/orthodox Christian in the ordinary sense, then please disregard this rant.

Quote:
What you're doing is so sad. You don't even know what it means to "deny the holy spirit." You can't just say it and then your soul is doomed. The holy spirit is your voice of reasoning. It's your conscience. It's that little voice that let's you know when you're doing right and wrong.

You know what's sad? You don't even know what the holy spirit is supposed to be! Last time I checked the holy spirit was supposed to be god, the third person of the trinity, and so on. So you better get your shit strait, or you may just be in danger of some sort of eternal punishment.


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zarathustra,  Perhaps not

zarathustra,

 Perhaps not 'coaching' someone into denouncing the Holy Spirit, but certainly 'coaching' on just how to do it!  From the home page of this very web site:

Here are some great ideas to help you with your video:

  • Don't simply "deny the holy spirit." Give it your own personal touches. Possibly add extra blasphemy or maybe even a background story as to why you feel the way you do.
  • Record your video in a Church or outside of a Church.
  • Walk up to people on the streets exclaiming your joy that you deny the holy spirit, and how good it makes you feel inside!
  • Mention "My name is ______ and I'm from the Rational Response Squad."
  • Plug your own atheist website or project!
But, perhaps we just play with semantics here...  Smiling

 


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Response to Tamika

Tamika,

It would appear that you are 'buying into' the Christian-generated assertion that, without God, there can be no morality.  If anything is sad, it's that assertion, and that you believe it.  You imply that we atheists are completely immoral and, by extension, not "human like you."  We are not lower animals, Tamika.  We have an independent morality, and we are human.  Just like you.

The African slave was not considered fully human to his/her owners.  He/she was treated accordingly.  Read the stories.  Watch the movies.  Let me do some sloppy reasoning and make some bad assumptions here: if Christians succeed in "taking back" America, will we, the atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Confucians, Hindus, etc. etc. then become your slaves?  That'd be quite easy to do - after all, we're not fully human, right?      


zarathustra
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I fear that we are playing

I fear that we are playing with semantics.  To be very precise, what you cite is coaching people (who have already denied the h.s.) on how to make a video.  Do you think this counterpart to parents raising their children to be religious?

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

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patrickimo
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zarathustra,  A good

zarathustra,

 A good question, a fair question, though I confess my understanding of it may be a bit incomplete.  You say that the "coaching" is on "how to make a video."  Here's how you make a video:

1.  Place camera on tripod.

2.  Plug camera into wall (or insert battery).

3.  Place chair in front of camera, and sit on it.

4.  Activate camera, smile, and do your thing.

The coaching that I'm seeing on the home page of this site is on how to deny the Holy Spirit, how to make it look convincing, and how to give the RRS kudos for it.  Counterpart to parents raising their children to be religious?  If I understand your question correctly, I'd answer that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch... 


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patrickimo wrote: The

patrickimo wrote:

The coaching that I'm seeing on the home page of this site is on how to deny the Holy Spirit, how to make it look convincing, and how to give the RRS kudos for it. Counterpart to parents raising their children to be religious? If I understand your question correctly, I'd answer that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch...

I don't know, I never saw it that way. I thought they were cool ideas. Just so all the videos weren't just like someone reading a script. It tells you to add your own personal touch. And gives suggestions. I doubt anyone who actually believed in the spirit would respond to "coaching" and DO the challenge.


zarathustra
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Yes, I feel your

Yes, I feel your understanding is incomplete. They ask for you to make a video in which you say the words "I deny the h.s.". The instructions you cite are suggestions on how to make your video unique, and more than simply saying those words. I was already a holy  spirit-denying atheist (through no prodding on their part) when I chose to do this video. Do you think a single believer would peruse this list of "ideas to help with your video" and suddenly feel compelled against their better judgement to deny the h.s?

For contrast I recall one Sunday in my youth where I told my mom I didn't want to go to church. Twenty minutes later, I was in church, and none too happy about it. Not too much of a stretch, you say?

There are no theists on operating tables.

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patrickimo
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zarathustra,  I think I'm

zarathustra,

 I think I'm getting what you're saying, and I think I agreed with you in my very first post to you on this:

"Perhaps not 'coaching' someone into denouncing the Holy Spirit, but certainly 'coaching' on just how to do it!"

No, no one is going to jump up and deny the Holy Spirit based on suggestions (coaching) for embellishing their video.  Here's what I was seeing:  you could replace "deny" and "blasphemy" in the suggestions with terms like "embrace" and "proclamation of love for" and have a nice Christian recipe for how to show your (indoctrinated and perhaps unwilling) support of the Holy Spirit.  That such a parallel can be drawn at all might not provide the best support for the cause of the Blasphemy Challenge.  I do not suggest that those who take the Challenge are being 'forced' or 'indoctrinated' to do so, but are those "suggestions" really helping anything?  I mean, doing the Challenge in or near a church - emphasizing our courage in facing down Christianity, or simple (and quite unnecessary) provocation?

 I am sorry to hear about your involuntary church attendance.  I was lucky in that when my parents sent me, it was simply Something To Do On A Sunday and they themselves didn't care a whit whether I went or not...


Brian37
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Quote: And that is how I

Quote:
And that is how I became a Christian. A Christian who's weapon is not a sword(a cross) and is not a book anymore.

Weapons are dangerous. That makes the people holding those weapons potentially dangerous. You consider your book a weapon and your religion a weapon. THAT MAKES YOU DANGEROUS to anyone outside your club. Be carefull how you use it. Dont think those other labels of religions wont fight back when you use it. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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