Finish this email exchange (strawman alert)

RationalRespons...
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Finish this email exchange (strawman alert)

Quote:

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: William
Date: Dec 19 2006 4:07 PM


As much as I find fault in the Christian worldview, I think it would be a little more constructive for you so-called sole proprieters of rationality to fight FOR something rather than against something. It isn't very constructive, and when your war is to abolish something as benign as Christmas, it also seems fueled by contempt and immaturity. It's just Christmas, kiddies. Grow up.

 

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----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: RATIONAL RESPONSE SQUAD
Date: Dec 20 2006 12:49 AM


We're fighting for a world where we require each other to have proof for the things we'd attempt to convince others to believe.

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----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: William

Date: Dec 20 2006 4:24 AM


In other words, you are fighting for a world of ideological fascism where idiots are not allowed to express their opinion, simply because it resides on an inferior intellectual level. Even the idiots get a say in any democratic state. It's their, ahem, God-given right.

For the record, I agree with your group that religion is for the most part false and irrational. But so is atheism, as traditionally it has only debunked gods that would not have been able to exist in the first place, given the discoveries of science and the dictates of reason. That isn't much of an accomplishment, defeating a paper tiger enemy. Rationality might be incompatible with religion, but it most definitely isn't incompatible with God. I'm not talking about the Christian patriarch-in-the-sky God. I'm talking about what's happening right now, this very moment, that thought in your head formulating a response to this message. Don't tell me it's all material. You can't reduce the I AM to a bunch of matter.

Furthermore, in order to meet your self-imposed standards, what concrete proof do you have to convince me that there is no God? You can disprove Jehovah and zeus, but you can't disprove that which is the most obvious and essential thing. Look at nature, look at a child, look at the infinity and eternity right outside your window. Nope, nothing but blind senseless meaningless matter. I don't mean to get vitriolic or airy fairy, but I have too much time on my hands, and this is a subject I'm impassioned about. Again, I suggest that instead of criticizing and waging war, you should open-mindedly seek the knowledge behind the falsities and fight, if at all, FOR something. Every belief is partial, even your dogma of rationality.

Peace.

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darth_josh
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William,  You make the

William,

 You make the assumption that we aren't fighting FOR something. In truth, the goal is a religion-free world.

I'm not going to waste your time by listing all of the problems with religion in general with regard to the world in which we live. It seems to be pretty self-evident. The root cause of strife is the religion itself whether it be islam, christianity, judaism, or even the deity-free religions such as some forms of buddhism and taoism.

It is the people that hold these 'faiths' that give power to the religion. On the website www.rationalresponders.com, you'll find that there are many people that are searching for the 'falsities', as you put it, with an open-minded approach.

The war on christmas began as a reaction to Bill O'Reilly's accusation that there already existed a war on christmas. First 'blood' was drawn from a baseless accusation by a no-good hack commentator. A response was needed if the marginalized atheists in the population were ever going to have a chance at freedom from the invasion of religion into our lives.

If Newton's law could be applied in a sociological sense then I would say that it is an opposite and equal reaction to the force applied by religion, specifically christianity in the case of christmas.

Now, if the only 'reason for the season' were peace on earth, good will toward man then I doubt that it would ever be an issue at all in the atheist community. However, the ideas surrounding myths perpetuated as purveyors of the christmas 'spirit' have only sought to proselytize the masses into acts of contrition just for being human with human feelings. I cannot simply sit back and watch people mentally abuse themselves and others with promises of HELL for simply holding a wholly separate idea of what 'good will toward mankind' means. 

In conclusion, perhaps I should just sum up what I, personally, am 'fighting for' in this war on christmas. I want TRUE peace on earth, good will toward humans without any deity beliefs inhibiting my truly human emotion of empathy.

 Your usage of the environment to focus your 'spirituality' is a form of a logical fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. Basically, because we do not know the nature of the consciousness, you are filling the gap in understanding with a loose definition of god. Simply because we cannot measure or define consciousness yet, does not mean that it must be god.

The base fact is that we cannot disprove the existence of any of the gods mentioned anywhere in the world. However, we can choose not to believe in a deity and that is the basis of atheism. A lack of belief in a god, not an assertion that there most definitely is not a god.

I will say that I have never found any evidence supporting the idea of a god and thus that leads me to state that so far there has been, isn't, and never will be a god. 

 

 

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Apokalipse
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Quote:

Quote:


From: William

Date: Dec 20 2006 4:24 AM


In other words, you are fighting for a world of ideological fascism where idiots are not allowed to express their opinion

we've got no problem with people expressing their opinion. but remember that opinions are about subjective issues.

We are fighting against people making objective claims without evidence. When dealing with objective issues, opinion is irrational justification.

For example, is it your opinion that you are straight? or are you gay? Either way, I don't care in the slightest. this is a subjective issue, not a universal truth.

However, if I started telling you that you must believe that undetectable, invisible unicorns living on the moon, that would be a different story. Whether or not they exist is not subjective.

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simply because it resides on an inferior intellectual level.
see above.

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Even the idiots get a say in any democratic state.
that's because it's a subjective issue.

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It's their, ahem, God-given right.
Begging the question.

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For the record, I agree with your group that religion is for the most part false and irrational.
not just for the most part. their entire basis is irrational.

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But so is atheism
no, atheism isn't a philosophy or belief system. an atheist is just somebody who isn't a theist.

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as traditionally it has only debunked gods that would not have been able to exist in the first place, given the discoveries of science and the dictates of reason.
1. reason doesn't dictate the universe. it is a descriptive word to categorise things that make sense.

2. in bold: science debunked certain descriptions of god. atheism did not. atheism is not a philosophy or belief system. it is strictly a lack of belief in a certain category.

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That isn't much of an accomplishment, defeating a paper tiger enemy.
proving that certain gods don't exist?

actually, it is much of an accomplishment. it reduces some of the irrationality in this world.

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Rationality might be incompatible with religion, but it most definitely isn't incompatible with God.
where's your argument for this conclusion? saying it don't make it so.

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I'm not talking about the Christian patriarch-in-the-sky God.
so what are you talking about?

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I'm talking about what's happening right now, this very moment, that thought in your head formulating a response to this message.
what has a thought going on inside our heads got to do with the existence or nonexistence of a god or gods?

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Don't tell me it's all material.
don't tell you what's all material?

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You can't reduce the I AM to a bunch of matter.
you can reduce everything to packets of energy. Study Quatum Physics at all?

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Furthermore, in order to meet your self-imposed standards
our standards are based logically on science. i.e. we have good reason for them. However, this doesn't necessarily apply to all atheists.

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what concrete proof do you have to convince me that there is no God? You can disprove Jehovah and zeus
shifting the burden of proof!

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but you can't disprove that which is the most obvious and essential thing.
what's the most essential thing? and what is it most essential to? and why?

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Look at nature, look at a child, look at the infinity and eternity right outside your window. Nope, nothing but blind senseless meaningless matter.
1. not just matter. you really don't have a clue what Quantum Physics is about, do you?

2. meaning is just a concept.

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I don't mean to get vitriolic or airy fairy, but I have too much time on my hands, and this is a subject I'm impassioned about.
yet you don't have much of an understanding about it.

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Again, I suggest that instead of criticizing and waging war
waging war? no, we're trying to teach others.

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you should open-mindedly seek the knowledge behind the falsities and fight, if at all, FOR something.
I thought that was what we were doing....

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Every belief is partial
again, depends if it is subjective or objective

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even your dogma of rationality.
rationality is a dogma? Here I was thinking it was just a descriptive word for things that make sense.