I am anti-religious, however I am very spiritual...

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I am anti-religious, however I am very spiritual...

Please respond for us, a little too busy with www.blasphemychallenge.com today:

Quote:

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Joel in the wall
Date: Dec 13 2006 7:10 PM

It seems that you have quite the point to get across. You must be very persuasive and intelligent. I would probably agree with certain ideas that you present since I am somewhat anti-religious myself. I am, however, a very spiritual person and do believe in the soul very much. Talk to me, I'm very open-minded. Not like many people who claim to be open-minded but in reality are simply tolerating new ideas instead of actually considering the possibility of them. I have a question for you, what is your concept of truth. You seem to say many things are lies. I'm confused on what your truth is and why you believe that you are right and others are wrong. Aren't you just adding to that mentality that you are trying to stop by claiming to be right and labeling others as wrong? What if there is no overall truth. What if there is just similar but different truths that each individual holds. How much does thought and imagination effect this world? Architects and builders have to use their imagination when putting together buildings. Those can be measured in the physical. What about the things that can't be measured in the physical or even seen? Maybe imagination is the only truth. Why would you want to try to talk someone out of their beliefs? There are certain extremists that are willing to kill for their beliefs. What about the ones who accept other beliefs and co-exist peacefully because both sides are objective? One of your pics says "Believe in God? We can fix that!" No you can't. I'm guessing that you are attaching one definition to the word God. You can fix the belief of a giant gray bearded man that sits in the clouds, granted. God is just a word. The word was an idea that turned into sound when it penetrated the physical. What are ghosts? Yes, I know that I'm asking alot of questions. You should be flattered that I am this interested. With a page such as yours, a flood of questions should be expected. I will be expecting a response from you. I'd like to continue talking to you, but I have a feeling that you are as close-minded as many religious folks simply because you believe that you are right and I am wrong.

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Sapient
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I just got a response from

I just got a response from him after alerting him to this thread.

Quote:

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: RATIONAL RESPONSE SQUAD
Date: Dec 13 2006 1:36 PM

I'm a little too busy today but we have a bunch of great minds and friends on our site who will respond soon:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/you_respond_rationally_mailbag/3571

Quote:
----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Joel in the wall
Date: Dec 13 2006 7:50 PM

I'm not interested in going there. You should respond to people personally if you want to gain followers.

We don't want to gain followers, especially people who are willfully ignorant and have no ability to perceive how many emails we get per day vs how much time we have to respond.

Try responding to 350 emails per day in essay response and get back to me.

- Brian Sapient


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Susan
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He's such a silly boy. Had

He's such a silly boy. Had he joined and posted, he would have had plenty of personal responses.


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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RationalResponseSquad

Quote:

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Joel in the wall
Date: Dec 13 2006 7:10 PM

It seems that you have quite the point to get across. You must be very persuasive and intelligent. I would probably agree with certain ideas that you present since I am somewhat anti-religious myself. I am, however, a very spiritual person and do believe in the soul very much. Talk to me, I'm very open-minded.

So, how do you define your "soul"?

Quote:
Not like many people who claim to be open-minded but in reality are simply tolerating new ideas instead of actually considering the possibility of them. I have a question for you, what is your concept of truth.

(?) Truth is what can be validated with proof. If I were to tell you that I saw a ghost in my house, you (I should hope) would not believe me until I proved it to you.

Quote:
You seem to say many things are lies. I'm confused on what your truth is and why you believe that you are right and others are wrong.

Faith means to believe in something without proof.

Quote:
Aren't you just adding to that mentality that you are trying to stop by claiming to be right and labeling others as wrong?

No, because we have proof of the things we claim. We have no proof of the gods spoken of in the bible or Koran or any other holy book. We cannot prove there is no god. But we do know it's not any of the ones that people kill each other over.

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What if there is no overall truth.

(?) This question is loaded. Truth must exist in and of itself. Overall?

Quote:
What if there is just similar but different truths that each individual holds.

I had a conversation with someone not too long ago about this. A person I admire very much but she believes this "individual truth." I don't agree. Like I said to her, "I don't want my truth, I want The truth."

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How much does thought and imagination effect this world?

Very much so. Paintings, literature, music?

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Architects and builders have to use their imagination when putting together buildings. Those can be measured in the physical. What about the things that can't be measured in the physical or even seen?

Please specify.

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Maybe imagination is the only truth.

No.

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Why would you want to try to talk someone out of their beliefs? There are certain extremists that are willing to kill for their beliefs.

You asked the question and then answered it.

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What about the ones who accept other beliefs and co-exist peacefully because both sides are objective?

I believe that this is what Sam Harris refers to as "religious moderates."

Quote:
One of your pics says "Believe in God? We can fix that!" No you can't.

Actually, the RRS has helped quite a few out of their delusion.

Quote:
I'm guessing that you are attaching one definition to the word God. You can fix the belief of a giant gray bearded man that sits in the clouds, granted. God is just a word.

It's the belief part that gets people killed though. Not the actual being God.

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The word was an idea that turned into sound when it penetrated the physical.

Whoa, deep.

Quote:

What are ghosts?

Hallucinations, lies, imagination and/or irrational thought.

Quote:

Yes, I know that I'm asking alot of questions.

But forgetting the "?" Cursing Man

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You should be flattered that I am this interested.

Really?

Quote:
With a page such as yours, a flood of questions should be expected. I will be expecting a response from you. I'd like to continue talking to you, but I have a feeling that you are as close-minded as many religious folks simply because you believe that you are right and I am wrong.

They do get a lot of questions. But usually they're the same old tired ones that have been answered over and over, etc. You assume close-mindedness even though Sapient directed you to this forum? You also assume that you are right and we are wrong.


ImmaculateDeception
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Quote:I am, however, a very

Quote:
I am, however, a very spiritual person and do believe in the soul very much. Talk to me, I'm very open-minded. Not like many people who claim to be open-minded but in reality are simply tolerating new ideas instead of actually considering the possibility of them.

Well, that's good. Allow me to introduce an idea then; the concept of the soul is false and merely an over-romantized interperation of human conciousness.

Quote:
I have a question for you, what is your concept of truth.

The same as anyone's. What is true as opposed to what isn't.

Quote:
You seem to say many things are lies. I'm confused on what your truth is and why you believe that you are right and others are wrong.

Well, to make it quick, the truth is god does not exist. I believe I'm right because there is no evidence that god does exist.

Quote:
Aren't you just adding to that mentality that you are trying to stop by claiming to be right and labeling others as wrong?

Can you justify the mentality behind refusing to defend what you hold to be true? Certainly, many theist come here to do just that. I may not agree with them and will argue them, but I do understand their motives.

Quote:
What if there is no overall truth. What if there is just similar but different truths that each individual holds.

I'm not really sure what you're implying here. Are you saying everyone is wrong and right? Either something is true or it is not. People tend to debate what is true and what isn't. Seems counterproductive to debate whether or not truth exists, whether 'overall' or otherwise.

Quote:
How much does thought and imagination effect this world? Architects and builders have to use their imagination when putting together buildings.

Yes, but they don't will the buildings into existance. They use their skills and knowledge to actualize their imagination.

Quote:
Those can be measured in the physical. What about the things that can't be measured in the physical or even seen? Maybe imagination is the only truth.

Is imagination important? Of course. Can you change your physical surroundings with imagination? No. Can you create truth by imagining it? Absolutely not. I had a dream once that I could fly and shoot fire out of my fingertips. It seemed very real, but guess what? I took the bus to work today and if I want to light a smoke, I have to use a lighter. What if I told you I could actually fly and throw fire? You would respond with "Prove it."

Quote:
Why would you want to try to talk someone out of their beliefs? There are certain extremists that are willing to kill for their beliefs.

Marthasplatterhead already conquered this question.

Quote:
What about the ones who accept other beliefs and co-exist peacefully because both sides are objective?

Believing in something false always does harm. There are plenty of theists out there who aren't starpping a bomb to their back to get their point across. That doesn't mean the aren't missing out on plenty.

Quote:
One of your pics says "Believe in God? We can fix that!" No you can't. I'm guessing that you are attaching one definition to the word God. You can fix the belief of a giant gray bearded man that sits in the clouds, granted.

You're guessing wrong. I'm talking about all concepts of a god or higher power.

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God is just a word

I agree.

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The word was an idea that turned into sound when it penetrated the physical.

Exactly. Someone thought it up and started talking about it.

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What are ghosts?

The bane of Pac-man's existence.

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Yes, I know that I'm asking alot of questions. You should be flattered that I am this interested.

Wow. I may be misinterperating here, but your letter has some slightly patronizing undertones. That's not very flattering.

Quote:
With a page such as yours, a flood of questions should be expected. I will be expecting a response from you. I'd like to continue talking to you, but I have a feeling that you are as close-minded as many religious folks simply because you believe that you are right and I am wrong.

Believing you're right does not mean you are close-minded. Being close-minded means to stubbornly cling to something even when you're shown evidence that proves it to be false. This is more a tactic of theists. Look, if you provide irrefutable evidence that god exists, I guarantee you everyone here will change their minds. You see, no one has yet, because it doesn't exist. I see no benefit in praising gullibility.

Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine


MattShizzle
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That idea of being "spritual

That idea of being "spritual but not religious" used to get frustrating on a site I used to be on.


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
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MattShizzle wrote:That idea

MattShizzle wrote:
That idea of being "spritual but not religious" used to get frustrating on a site I used to be on.

This should be on irrational precepts but I guess it could fall under the supernatural claims:
6. Belief in psychics/paranormal/supernatural claims


Sapient
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Quote:-----------------

Quote:
----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Joel in the wall
Date: Dec 13 2006 10:59 PM

Ok I went there. I apologize for not visiting the page. I didn't know that it would have quotations from myself there. I thought that it was a sort of statement telling people what you're about. Are my other questions/comments there in a different section maybe? I'd like it if all of what I said was displayed as opposed to just the first comment. I think that I bring up decent points.

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: RATIONAL RESPONSE SQUAD
Date: Dec 13 2006 11:17 PM

I didn't post anything else. We're awaiting responses. Feel free to enter the discussion.

- Brian Sapient


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