Atheists are blind, we are praying for you
Posted on: November 16, 2006 - 1:29pm
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Atheists are blind, we are praying for you
YOU RESPOND:
From : -- NOT SURE IF THIS IS THE REAL EMAIL ADDY
What are you afraid of? Your attempt to deny that Christ loves you is futile. Every knee will bow to Jesus Christ in acknowledgement of his divine sovereignty and you have absolutely no control over that event happening in your life or anyone elses. I feel sympathy for you all. May
the God of this existence open your blind eyes to see that He is real, because if He doesn't, then you'll just keep deceiving yourselves and keep trying to deceive others. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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What are you talking about? I would be afraid of a crazy man with a gun. Are we talking about something in particular here?
Ok now I'm afraid of this dude named christ. It sounds like he is stalking me...
Oh your talking about that bible guy. Ok well I don't think the christain god can logically exist so I'm not really worried about it.
If that is the case then I guess there was no point to your e-mail and there is no harm in what we are doing.
I'd be happy to hear what proof you have for the existence of a god, but I doubt you have any.
I don't know if you have been reading too much Jonathan Edwards or what, but if someone must scare someone else into believing something they are doing something underhanded.
A world where common sense is no longer common, which is basically the world we're living in now. Oh, and spiders. Creepy little bastards *shudder*.
When? Why? Don't start your rant out vague and then get so specific. If you know this to be true, then stand up and point out to me where god is. Cast your finger upon the obescure corner of the universe so that I may bask in god's glory. You can't do that? Then don't presume I'll bow to anyone.
Decpetion is the last that is happening here. Deception is a tactic your people employ.
Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
Being mauled by bears, my ex-fiance finding out where I live or my phone number, and bears.
Yeah, my knee hasn't bowed. I don't deny Christ loves me, because I don't even think your Christ existed. You can't deny something you think is a fairy tale. Do you deny the Easter Bunny?
And I feel sympathy for you. How much time have you wasted in church when you could have been doing something productive? How much havve you given in tithes to build cathedrals that could have actually fed some person less fortunate?
And if your God is who you claim he is, he has the power to open my eyes - so why hasn't he? Your god is all knowing too, isn't he? So your god knew I would not believe in him when he created me, had the power to change my mind, refused to change my mind, and will see fit to punish me for being what he created? Oh, what a wonderful master you have, sign me up!
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
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I don't know. I'm not God. I know He has chosen to use some people to show how loving He is and He has chosen to use others to show how just He is in punishing evil. To bad we don't have a choice the matter. It then becomes a reason for you to hate God which proves Him right in allowing some to remain evil in their disbelief.
You are still alive which means you can still have hope in Him changing your mind. All we can know is that God hasn't changed your mind YET. Why are you so angry with God?
The harm is in what you are doing to yourself and those in society you interact with by promoting hatred against Christians.
In order for humankind to have "the Knowledge of Good and Evil" there needs to be good and evil. One cannot understand one with out the other. (Like Rook Hawkins said you can't know sweet without sour.) So God has chosen to leave some people in their evil nature, while chosing to change others for good and thus proving His Sovereignty. That is what I meant by saying "every knee will bow to Jesus Christ in ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of His divine sovereignty". What you have no control over is whether you are good or evil. At the present moment you do not see and understand.
You and all atheists are deceived because, like Plato's allegory of the cave, you all are stuck inside the cave of deception, whereas Christians have been released from the shackles of the cave and have seen the True light.
I don't think RRS is promoting hatred for people at all. I know I dislike ideas Christians may have, but no more then any belief I see as irrational. Well the ideas that would promote hatred against me I'd hate out right.
I wasn't talking about the problem of evil, but if you really want to bring it up. How do you know there is good and evil? How would you describe them?
If we have no control then your contacting us does nothing.
I don't think you should talk about Plato's cave and how we are stuck in a cave...
I know many here were christian and changed their mind. I must point out your belief is not justified to me and that is why I don't believe, others here probably feel the same way.
Also I find many of Plato's up in the clouds thinking absurd. One thing I agree with in particular the idea that beliefs may not be true, but we can have some beliefs "more true" then others.
Personally I think I could show how most religious people are in a cave of sorts...
I feel sympathy that you haven't seen the light and realized the only god is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Don't you want to experience the beer volcano and stripper factory? The Evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists is exactly the same as that which exists for your god.
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And that true light just so happens to be a book, a book which says its true, but has no historical backing.
Have you researched other religons? Read there books? Why did you choose christianity over the others? Because its the first one you read?
If he has such a hard on for punishing evil, why do you suppose he created evil in the first place? Additionally what sort of punishment do you think he doles out to himself for being the root of all evil?
I can't hate something that doesn't exist.
Why are you so angry at Poseidon? Oh, you're not? Well now you know how I feel about your god.
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You point out one place where any RRS member has ever promoted hatred against a Christian and I'll send you $5. Not only do I not hate Christians, I care for them so much that I'll spend my entire life helping them see that they're wasting theirs on a delusion.
There is no inherent need to have knowledge of good and evil for a species to survive. Millions of species of animals exist that don't understand the concept of good and evil. Furthermore an all powerful god has the power to give us knowledge about anything he wants us to have, so again you're wrong in assuming both must exist. Finally good and evil are subjective, even us humans can't agree on what is good and evil. The bible itself is contradictory on what good and evil are. For example one isn't allowed to kill as we see in the ten commandments however god commands killing in many places. This is not an understanding of good and evil, it's an illustration that people will throw these terms around callously to fit their agenda (you).
So we don't have "free will?"
It's actually precisely because I do understand that I am able to reject your rather irrational assertions as false.
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It's interesting AAB would suggest that we need knowlege of good & evil in order to survive, when in the Babble it was gaining that knowlege was considered such a terrible sin!
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I was stuck inside the cave as a child (which is what Plato refers to), and I broke free from the shackles he refers to, now I'm the freed philosopher that he refers to, trying to free you.
Plato's allegory refers to the enslavement by authority or the government or in this case religion. It refers to the lack of questioning and we see this often in religion. You are the slave, you need to free yourself from the shackles. Your argument is but a projection of who you are. Look in the mirror.
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Zing... pwned.
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And the knowlege seemed to be that their being naked was somehow evil (God didn't care until they realized this??? WTF??? ) Not to mention the fact they could not possibly have known that disobedience was wrong, if they did not yet know right and wrong. Maybe God needs to take a course in logic, ethics, or general philosophy. :
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding RRS, but for me to give up my Christianity would be to commit apostacy and therefore enter eternal punishment. Besides, I wouldn't be here today writing this if it wasn't for what God did for me...I would have commited suicide. What I experienced cannot be taken from me, nor can I lie to myself and say that it didn't happen.
What I'd like to know is 1)what Christian ideas do you hate? and 2) what Christian ideas promote hatred against you?
Like I said, in order for one to know good, one must have it's opposite to compare and contrast.
God is not the root of all evil. Money is....just kidding. Satan otherwise known as Lucifer the fallen angel is the root of evil. God says there is a lake of fire waiting for satan and all who are not written in the Book of Life. I'm not arguing to convince any of you to be Christian, but arguing to defend the truth. Funny how we both think we have the truth.
What are Christians missing out on by believing what you think is a delusion? Why do you think Christianity a waste of life?
The only free choice we have is to choose our sin...the ability to choose our poison so-to-speak.
Actually it was Sapient who suggested it.
I was pointing out that this world obviously has good and evil and we can't even decide which is which. That is why God told us what is good and what is evil by giving us the law and the ten commandments. Gaining the knowledge of good and evil is what God told us not to do, but we did it anyway. Disobedience was the sin. Having the knowledge of good and evil is not sinful.
Here is a definition of allegory:a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.
I used Plato's allegory to represent the spiritual meaning that eternity (outside the cave) is more important than the present moment of being inside the cave. Being born-again is when you're freed from your shackles. You are correct in saying that
DUH! All God said was if they ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil that the result would be death. He didn't say it would be a sin and therefore worthy of punishment. However, now He has told us what is good through the ten commandments and we've realized that we cannot keep those commandments. Since we cannot keep the commandments and since God is a God of Justice, and Justice must be made for those who have sinned by disobeying the commandments, then enters Jesus. He takes the punishment and thereby fulfills God's Justice. Our new commandment is to love our neighbor as ourselves. Why would you and RRS want to destroy the concept of loving your neighbor as yourself?
Just repeat your arguments that have already been refuted, fine by me. Show how humans can't exist without knowing "good."
And who created Satan knowing everything he would ever do before he created him? When you figure that out you'll have the literal ROOT of all evil, Satan is a mere secondary cause of evil, doing exactly what his creator knew he'd do and had the power and knowledge to enact a different plan but chose to be the root of evil instead.
Clearly.
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A world in which only real and provable things count.
Personally I prefer to use the life I have to live it in reality, I see living life believing in unprovable things, often giving much of your money to men who teach it to you as a waste.
So we don't have "free will?"
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And it makes so much sense to us when we reconcile gods command to never kill with...
Kings 2....
22 So the waters were healed to this day, according to the word of Elisha which he spoke.
23 He went up from there to Bethel. As he was going up by the way, some youths came out of the city and mocked him, and said to him, "Go up, you baldy! Go up, you baldhead!"
24 He looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Yahweh. Two female bears came out of the woods, and mauled forty-two of those youths.
He knew we would.
And he created the system of sin, and created us in such a way that he knew we'd sin the day after creating us.
It was the only thing he didn't want us to do. Sounds sinful to me.
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We don't wan't to destroy that concept. We actually prefer to point out that almost no Christians actually do that. It's Christians themselves that have destroyed that concept.
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God didn't create evil? Tell you what - break out your Bible and read Isaiah 45:7 and try to say that again.
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Well if the christian stories are true then you would enter the whole eternal punishment thing, but I doubt those who have commit apostasy really care what their religion said...
I don't know your story, but I think you would be strong enough to save yourself from yourself. Maybe have a little help from people, but I would think there would have been an atheist or two that had the same problems and was able to make it out as well.
I kind of dislike the ones that tell people to kill the unbelievers.
Here it is, right from the bable:
Deuteronomy 17:2-5
17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca
I was answering your question.
I asked "What I'd like to know is 1)what Christian ideas do you hate? and 2) what Christian ideas promote hatred against you?" and you answered
Then why did Jesus say he came not to change the old law, but uphold it and that he came to not change "One jot or tittle (whatever the fuck a tittle is) of the old law.?"
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The definition of evil is:morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked;due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character.
So some of God's calamities are the plagues in Egypt or the Flood, etc. God causing calamity and God creating evil are two completely different things. Try showing me a different verse that says God created evil.
Let me explain something. It is the sinful nature ( the morally selfish desires that are innate within humans) that wreck havoc on the concept of loving our neighbor as ourselves. You and I agree that the concept is good, however because we aren't perfect we fall short of living out the concept perfectly. That is why forgiveness is important. Jesus also taught about forgiveness. Quit blaming Christians, because we're just as helpless as you in mastering our sins.
So you have one of those cowardly newer ones that changes what the Bible actually says in order to make it more palatable. There are plenty of cases where god behaves evil in the bible anyway.
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I said "Gaining the knowledge of good and evil is what God told us not to do, but we did it anyway."
You replied:
Stay with me here....follow me in this, ok?
I said "Disobedience was the sin"
You replied:
I said"Having the knowledge of good and evil is not sinful."
You replied
Judging from your replies, I see you do understand what the bible says for the most part. I see you understand enough that a part of you understands the concept of a Supreme Being ( however the definition of aitheist is to not believe in a supreme being) BUT that because you can't put all the peices together logically, therefore you come to the conclusion that there is no God. I say the fact that humans can't put all the peices together logically proves that God exists and the bible isn't man-made because man wants it all to make sense. So if man would have written it, then there would be no misunderstandings or apparent contadictions.
What????
So if someone wrote a story about leprechauns and it didn't make sense that would prove they exist?
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I hear ya there. Stay far away from networks like TBN, because they are not real Christians. They are wolves in sheeps clothes taking advantage of spiritually young Christians and they give Christainity a bad name. Christianity is NOT about how rich you can get or about giving all your money to a preacher. Jesus said there would be false teaches and prophets that would arise OUT FROM AMONG CHRISTIANS and try a fool people. But Jesus said the true Christians wouldn't be deceived by them.
No we don't have free will. I'd like to see you create something from nothing. If you can, then you've just proven that we have free will.
The only thing we can do with our will is use what has been given to us, so "free" will it is not. I would use the term "limited". For example, there are about a billion neurons in the space of a grain of rice. Now imagine how many grains of rice (neurons) fill a 3 pound brain. The drugs/medicine we come up with are so limited that they effect large parts of our brains....the parts we don't want the drug to effect...resulting in side effects. If we had free will, don't you think we could just fix that? Or maybe cure cancer, aids, etc? We've been working on that for years. I say our will is limited.
He said He came to FULFILL the law. We can't fulfill it, so He did it for us. Check out Hebrews 8:6-13. It says the first covenant wasn't perfect, hence the need for a second, and thus the first is being made "obsolete".
A tittle isn't a breast, in case you were wondering. A tittle is a pen stroke in the Hebrew written language.
That is not what I said.
People claim that the bible contradicts itself and since they say it contradicts itself, therefore it is not true.
I'm saying because those people want the bible to make pefect sense to them, and we all know that the bible doesn't make perfect sense to us, that it proves man did not write the bible. If man had written the bible, then everthing would be edited perfectly and without seeming contradictions.
How do you know what evil is? You don't even know how gravity works let alone what gravity is. You only know that there is a force that keeps things from floating away and that someone calls that force "gravity". So how is it that you can judge God evil?
Yes, that answers both. 1. the ones that could lead to my harm. 2. the ones that could lead to my harm.
Interesting the OT doesn't count, there goes the ten commandments. Matthew 10:34 troubles me a bit, but doesn't 2 Peter 2:1 and Acts 3:23 echo Deuteronomy?
Well I think most would find the idea of killing a lot of people for the actions of a few or others bad, but I don't see how getting pissed about something you made someone do is just. Really people just use the word evil to describe things that seem morally wrong.
How do I judge morality without a sky daddy? Simple harming people is bad and revenge isn't justice.
I am afraid of that in which I do not understand. My perceptions of that in which I do not understand usually cause me to feel the sense of fear. When my perceptions change, my sense of fear changes, what scared me then, no longer scares me now, I am striving forward fearlessly, towards no fear what so ever.
What you say about every knee bowing before Christ is quite interesting. I would be so inclined to say that it has been happening for the past two thousand years. Maybe you ended up on your knees before christ the same way a child molester gets Khids on their knees before him. (Not far off from the practice of the Catholic Church if I may add) A little bit of manipulation here, a bit of re-assurance there, and in know time the child has a dick in the mouth. Rest assured, just because you have Christ's cock in your mouth, doesn't mean everyone else will too. I'm pleased to inform you that you have made the wrong choice little one, because we do have control, unlike what your perceptions have lead you to believe.
If my perception does not conform to yours, I will continue to be deceived, and forever be unlike you. If I continue to deceive others, it is through my actions as an individual, through me leading by example, without the cock of Jesus in my mouth. Not through scare tactics, not through ASSIMILATION, nor through genocide, but by me being a loving individual who lives his own will......etc, etc. By being someone who looks within, by gaining knowledge of thyself, so I can best love myself, so I can best love others as I best love myself. This is how I deceive your perceptions that are spread like a sexually transmitted desease. Which I will get back to...
The only possible way it would be fearfull to fall into the hands of God, is if you do not know your very self. One thing that I am lead to believe you have forgotten all about. THY SELF.
Christianity is a religion of PAIN, MISERY, SUFFERING, and DEATH. One where women are controlled sexually. If you control her sexually, you control her utterly. This is what christianity does best. Restrict thy will. "The word of sin is restriction."
So I say to you Mr Christianity, take your cross of pain, misery, suffering, and death, and shove it up your sexually repressed anus
...............you angellically possessed piece of shit.
THANK YOU, but NO THANKS.
"Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside awakens."
-Carl G. Jung
Evil is what works in the dark, evil wants to stay hidden, always out of sight, evil is manipulation, it is indifference, evil doesn't know it is evil, evil thinks it is good.
Thats what evil is. How do I know? Because it makes sense, thats what evil is.....?
"Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside awakens."
-Carl G. Jung
The Native Americans have a covenant which is "TENDING THE GARDEN." The only legitimate covenant that really makes sense. It's really too bad they were subject to genocide and flat out assimilation. Being forced out of their family's lives and into a christian household for 10 months of the year... That's pure hell. Fuck your "NEW" covenant. The Natives had it right, No one needs help from christians.... so please, with all due respect... FUCK OFF.
"Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart. Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside awakens."
-Carl G. Jung
No, honey, no. That isn't free will. That is called magic, and if you'd like to see some I'm sure there are a few Penn & Teller clips floating around YouTube.
It is not our will that is limited, but our intelligence. Do we have the ability to one day cure these diseases? I believe so. Do we have the knowledge required? No, not yet.
And while you're on the topic of good and evil, what sort of benevolent God would create diseases such as AIDS and cancer that kill his faithful followers (among others)? Even in their final days, when they turn to Him desperately in prayer, He still ignores them and lets them suffer. Is that your definition of "good?"
In my opinion, the opposite is true. If the Bible made sense, it would be easier to believe. How it is written seems more like a group of people trying to churn out the most convincing, frightening propaganda they possibly can in so short a period of time that they didn't even think to go back and check for mistakes.
No...here is the defintion for magic:the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring
2)the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature
I said "create something from nothing", which is not the defintion of magic. If you have "free will" then use it to will something into existence like God did when he created existence. Creating something from nothing is not an illusion OR are you just an illusion?
Exactly what I meant when I said "people want the bible to make sense to them". But the bible isn't easy to believe, hence your atheisism and our discussion.
The bible is 66 seperate books that were written over a span of 2000 years. How is that a "short period of time"? The bible points those who read it towards God and the Messiah (Jesus) who God said He would send to save mankind.