Why bother being actively against god?

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Why bother being actively against god?

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----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Color of the Cross
Date: Aug 10, 2006 5:19 PM

Why would anyone bother being actively against God? It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability, but to stand up against Him and teach others to do the same? Deep down you know that the God of the Bible exists, otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick Him apart. Jesus died for you too, so take a moment to reconsider your stance on the matter. Your eternity will depend on it.

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No we don't. We could say

No we don't. We could say "Deep down you know the Flying Spaghetti Monster really exists and that Jesus is a myth", and it would be just as valid as what you said. And, if Jesus ever really did exist, what Robert Ingersoll said is true: "If he was goog enough to die for me, surely he would not be bad enough to damn me for honestly doubting the Bible."

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Rich_Rodriguez
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Their is no proof for the

Their is no proof for the historical existence of the man called Jesus. Please realize that most people on this forum no more about your religion than you do. Isn't it odd that most historians and scholars are non belivers? The least you know the more likely it is that you believe. Most of you (theist) assume that Atheist rebel for the sake of rebellion, but this is just not the case. Most Atheist whould love to know that there is a God who loves us and promises an afterlife. The sad truth, is that no such being has ever been proven to exist. Atheist are just being true to themselves and for that you can not fault them.


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I've never been against

I've never been against anything I don't think is real. I can go against god, just as well as I can go against Santa Claus.

This page is questioning a belief. A belief that tries to claim the exclusive right to absolute truth. A belief that teachs hate, and intolerance. I think arguing against those is very worthwhile.

Deep down, I would be afraid of a diety who slaughters children, livestock, and entire populations on a whim. What kind of perfect being requires worship? Is your god vain?

The paper read yesterday, the earth exploded, nobody noticed the passing of this hapless planet.


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SO  WHEN IS THAT HOLOCAUST

SO  WHEN IS THAT HOLOCAUST OF XIANS THAT JOSEPH LAND WAS TALKING ABOUT GOING TO HAPPEN? "GRAPS PITCHFORK"


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It is not possible to be

It is not possible to be actively against something that doesn't exist.  What I am actively against is the followers of such a thing who see nothing wrong with hijacking my government and infringing upon the rights of those who don't fit their religious criteria. 

I think I have a responsibility to make sure that people like you know that I absolutely do not have any belief in your god of the bible, nor am I particularly concerned with Jesus, either.  I speak out because I think religion is a poison that is affecting the society I live in and I'd like to stop it.

Pthhp, if I don't believe in god, do you really expect threats of eternity to frighten me?  That's just silly. 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


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Why would be bother being

Why would be bother being against God? It isn't God that is the problem(given the lack of objective proof that any exist) it's the followers that are the issue.

As far as responsibility, well I for one do not have a religion that basically syas that you can be absolved of responsibility just by saying "sorry daddy"... I have my ethics and morals and have to live with whatever consequences.

I don't know that Jesus actually lived and history isn't so sure either, a Yeshua Bin Yusef sure, but that proves nothing."Messiahs" were a dime a dozen around that time. My eternity ends when my heart stops. Until that time, my "eternity" depends on me.


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Color of the Cross asked:

Color of the Cross asked: "Why would anyone bother being actively against God?"

Why wouldn't they? This question so accurately reflects the religious climate of America in that it reveals the extreme and unchecked bias of its source. Probabilities aside, if God cannot be proven one way or the other, then the question should be neutral. If it were neutral then no one would be asking why there is an opposition to one side. The questioner would simply acknowledge both sides have an equal claim to truth.

To go further, it would seem that it is acceptable to Color of the Cross for someone to disagree with God's existence just so long as they do not mention their disbelief publicly. It reminds me of parents dropping off their young ones at school and putting every effort into dissuading the disillusioning statements of other older children pointing out that there is no Santa Clause. "All is well as long as no one talks about it" is the creed endorsed here. The fault in this logic seems plainly obvious and therefore it will not be entertained further.

Also, someone who is active against respectful regard for God will find it easy to appreciate the inherent contradiction in the question. The question second guesses the motives of God-opponents as if any action in support of any worldview is wrong. But by this very question the author is performing that same injury; criticizing action in support of a worldview. Asked from the other side it might sound something like "Why would you actively promote God?". The simple answer is this: "If it is well and good to support one answer to the neutral question of God, then it should also be well and good to support the alternative answer." I suspect critics will have trouble with the word neutral in that last sentence and with good reason. But the moment you remove that word's presence you will find the heart of the matter stripped bare: The question is not neutral. It is affected by probability. And so the complicated answer follows "If it is well and good to support one answer to the neutral question of God, then it should also be well and good to support the alternative answer. But if the question is not neutral and favors one answer, then it will be well and good to take the proportion of action warranted by and in the direction of that measure of favor." To make the case for God's improbability here would take away from this dialogue but that should not preclude its being stated bluntly.

All delivery mechanisms and assumptions put to rest for a moment, the heart of the question is a valid one: "Why actively discourage belief in God?" The answer is so simple that one is tempted to question if the author was genuinely curious. And here is the answer if that be the case: If people believe that what they hold as their worldview to be more accurate than that of their neighbor, then they will publicly work towards sharing that enlightenment. Specifically, just as the Christian would debate a non-believer passionately to save his soul from eternal damnation, the atheist will debate a Christian to save his mortal life from toxic irrational belief.

Color of the Cross asked: "It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability, but to stand up against Him and teach others to do the same?"

Let us again remove the assumptions first. Atheists may in fact choose not to believe in God so they can avoid responsibility and accountabliity. But this hardly represents the majority of the group. There are perfectly good reasons not to believe in God and that can be discussed with anyone at length. If you want to know what these reasons are then you can turn to classical examples authored by Hume and Kant. Or if you prefer more up to date reasons then you can pick up The God Delusion by Dawkins or The End of Faith by Harris. To outline the entire justification for non-belief here would detract from the point of the question and its answer. And once you get past the question's embedded jabs it is clear that it is merely restating the first question so I will refer the reader to the first answer.

Color of the Cross asked: "Deep down you know that the God of the Bible exists, otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick Him apart."

If I knew the God of the Bible existed, it would be quite pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick him apart. But this does not make God any more or less true. It has nothing to do with the question of God's existence. It merely questions the purpose and efficiency of how I spend my time. And since I do not know that the God of the Bible exists, and further that I hold the complete opposite view, it is not pointless to have this page and pick apart God.

To go deeper, no Christian can claim to "know" God of the Bible exists. That's right, not one of them can say so. The justification for this is direct:

1. To "know" something is to have evidence for it and to have drawn the proportionate conclusions warranted by that evidence. Even if your use of the word "know" is of the watered down variety the remaining argument still applies.
2. To "have faith" in something is to believe in something for which there is no evidence.
3. Since "knowing" precludes faith in that subject, you could not have faith in anything you know.

This logic would lead any honest thinker to ask: "Why would you need 'faith' in God if you 'know' he is there?"

And to those Christians who would respond that there is evidence to support God I would caution them preemptively. If the one thing God wants from his children is faith that he exists and that he sent his only son to die for us, then he most certainly would not provide our senses with evidence from which to understand that he is there or that his son was divine. Because once we have evidence, on reason alone we could achieve a knowledge of God that would not require one mustard seed of faith. Therefore if you have evidence of something it most certainly is not the Biblical God as it would make pointless his whole faith-gathering universe.

Color of the Cross threatened: "Jesus died for you too, so take a moment to reconsider your stance on the matter. Your eternity will depend on it."

Thank you for your caution. I can honestly state that I have reconsidered the matter and still think the idea of God to be irrational. Further, your questions have galvanized me in my cause to disillusion those around me who are infected by such irrational ideas. And your warning that my eternity will depend on my answer has been heard. I appreciate your concern for my welfare and its being paramount to fearful threats should I not agree with your chosen worldview.

"No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking." Voltaire


Garnok
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Why would anyone bother

Why would anyone bother being actively against God?

As others have already said: we are not actively against god, yours or anyone else's. Atheists do not have a belief that god exists, so it is pointless to fight against a non- existent being. Instead we are actively against those who believe in some god and think that it is their duty to force it upon everyone else, either through law or violence.

It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability, but to stand up against Him and teach others to do the same?

Let's talk about avoidance of responsiblity and accountability for a moment. Christians believe that their god, through the "death" of Jesus, has forgiven them of their sins and thus absolving them of all wrongdoing in "this" world if they accept Jesus as their lord. So why bother seeking forgiveness from other unworthy human beings or to make amends when you supposedly have god's?

Deep down you know that the God of the Bible exists, otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick Him apart.

This is a rather arrogant statement. By this reasoning then Christian apologists must not believe in the god whose existence they consistantly attempt to support must not, deep down, believe in its existence since they devote so much time trying to support it. Does that sound silly or arrogant to you?

Jesus died for you too, so take a moment to reconsider your stance on the matter. Your eternity will depend on it.

Did Jesus really die for me or anyone else? According to the bible he "died" only to come back a few days later and then go to some eternal paradise. That's hardly what I'd call a sacrifice, more like a bad weekend. Then again, that hardly matters as there is little evidence that a person such as Jesus ever really existed.  

As for reconsidering my stance, well that's what lead me to atheism. Have you ever really thought about your stance? You want to talk of eternity but have you ever thought about the here and now?


Brian37
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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
YOU RESPOND: ----------------- Original Message ----------------- From: Color of the Cross Date: Aug 10, 2006 5:19 PM Why would anyone bother being actively against God? It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability, but to stand up against Him and teach others to do the same? Deep down you know that the God of the Bible exists, otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick Him apart. Jesus died for you too, so take a moment to reconsider your stance on the matter. Your eternity will depend on it.

Deep deep down you know Allah exists and your eternity depends on accepting Allah as the one true God.

Hate to burst your bubble bud, merely having an emotional reaction and liking a claim does not constitute evidence. Muslims are just as emotional and fervant in believing in Allah, but you dont buy it merely because they claim it.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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goescrunch
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Here's a very simple answer:

Here's a very simple answer: You cannot be actively against that which does not exist. Do they think I'm against Santa? The Easter Bunny? The Tooth Fairy? I just don't believe in those things... How silly...


Bahana
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"It's one thing to not

"It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability," I just wanted to respond to this part. People are accountable for their actions whether they are atheists or not. Humans hold each other accountable. There are no gods shooting lightning bolts from the sky to stop people from committing crimes, so we have to handle it ourselves.


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
YOU RESPOND: ----------------- Original Message ----------------- From: Color of the Cross Date: Aug 10, 2006 5:19 PM Why would anyone bother being actively against God? It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability, but to stand up against Him and teach others to do the same? Deep down you know that the God of the Bible exists, otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick Him apart. Jesus died for you too, so take a moment to reconsider your stance on the matter. Your eternity will depend on it.

First of all, being against something stupid and damaging to humanity could not possibly mean that one is avoiding responsibility or accountability; on the other hand, people often use god and the devil as an excuse for precisely that.  Deep down, you know that God does not exist, and you can't handle the nit-pickining by intelligent people who question your insipid and damaging beliefs, and therefore choose to condemn us as "irresponsible," instead of accepting one very simple fact:

IF the god you claim to believe in is so awesome, then he needs no witness for or against him.  Obviously, the god you worship must be quite a lightweight intellectuallly, or non-existent; otherwise, he would not have so many nuts running around "witnessing" for him, and telling us myriad different stories about how he is supposed to be honored.   

And if my eternity depends on my accepting some lesser-god's pathetic sacrifice, then the hell with my eternity.   


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Quote: Why would anyone

Quote:
Why would anyone bother being actively against God?

Why would anyone bother being actively for God?

Quote:
It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability, but to stand up against Him and teach others to do the same?

Presumptuous cocksucker. Thanks for letting me know why I don't believe. Ass.

Quote:
Deep down you know that the God of the Bible exists, otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick Him apart.

Deep down, you can kiss my peehole.

Quote:
Jesus died for you too, so take a moment to reconsider your stance on the matter.

Jesus didn't die for me. He died because he pissed off the Romans.

Quote:
Your eternity will depend on it.

Do me a favor. Go choke on something.


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You guys need to stop

You guys need to stop quoting southpark.


Zombie
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Not god or jeebus

Its not the idea of god i have a problem with, although I don't agree with it. Its what his/her/their followeres try and do in his/her/its name. Like invade Iraq. Smiling

Morte alla tyrannus et dei


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Well...

A wise man once said

"If I told you the sky was made out of purple spaghetti sauce would you correct me?"

 

I think that delusion and irrationality needs to be corrected. I think that we need to educate people or else humanity will never survive. I mean look at stem cell research for instance. We could help and save so many people if irrational claims weren't holding us back.

 

Co-Founder of the Atheist/Freethought website Pathofreason.com

www.pathofreason.com

Check it out


systemnate
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I had logical questions

I had logical questions against Christianity at a young age and tried to push them out of my head because I thought I would go to hell. 

Atheists getting together to discuss such views such as the falliblity of the bible plays an important roll in getting over this battle with myself that I've fought for so many years.

Knowing that there are others who are skeptical who present their knowledge in books, forums, and web pages, allowed me to do the research to finally overcome theism and feel good about it.

 

 


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As everyone else has

As everyone else has previously stated; we are not against something that doesn’t exist, we are against the followers of the myth.  Fundamentalist Christians today are pushing to make this country a theocracy.  That is what we are against.  As the bumper stickers states:  “There was a time when religion ruled; it’s called the Dark Ages.  Read about it.  This is what we are against.  If someone doesn’t fight this the end of humanity is at hand.  Of course, that’s what all you fundies want.

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
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This thread is awesome.

This thread is awesome.

But I don't quite get who exactly we are talking to? Is someone actually the target of all these answers or is that just plain rhetoric for our mental healthcare, in answer to an email someone received?

Anyway, I'll make sure to send a link to this thread as an introductory explanation of Atheism when I speak to believers. This contains so many simple, effective and clear answers and they don't take ages to read (which is something most believers will not, unfortunately, take time to do)


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1."Why would anyone bother

1."Why would anyone bother being actively against God? "

You cant be against something that is not there.

2. "its one thing to not belive so you can avoid responcibiltuy and accountability"  

The most disshonest and complety normal way a thiest would word the question. You assign vaule ton the subject that is untrue so there responceither conforms to the direction you wnat them to take, or makes them look bad. 

     3. "Deep down you know that the God of the Bible exists"

     Now you read minds... dont think jebus would like that....

        4."otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have this page and devote time to trying to pick Him apart"

       Pointless if you avoid the murders,rapes,laws and horrible actions that religion has justified and even demanded of man kind.

 

          5. "Jesus died for you too, so take a moment to reconsider your stance on the matter. Your eternity will depend on it." 

 

  OH NOES!!!!! my soul.... wait dont have one... why do thiest belive fearmongering is still a good tactic for deabte?
 

Many a man have failed because his wish bone is where his back bone should have been. " not written by me"


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

 It's one thing to not believe so you can avoid responsibilty and accountability...

 

What better way to avoid responsibility and accountability than to ask an invisible man in the sky to take care of everything?

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

Why Believe?


Chip
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I'm not actively against

I'm not actively against god. I'm actively against the people who think he talks to them.


WormGetsItsWings
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This is definitely one of

This is definitely one of the biggest misconceptions about atheism, that we somehow KNOW for  a FACT that there is a god, and we're just rebelling.

"On mine honour, my friend, [...] there is nothing of all that whereof thou speakest: there is no devil and no hell. Thy soul will be dead even sooner than thy body; fear, therefore, nothing any more!"

- from Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra


Brian37
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WormGetsItsWings

WormGetsItsWings wrote:

This is definitely one of the biggest misconceptions about atheism, that we somehow KNOW for a FACT that there is a god, and we're just rebelling.

Exactly. There is a differance between saying "there is no god", and "your claim is unfounded and absurd".

The theist will cry, "Then you are agnostic, not an atheist". They never take into account past, current and future. I am strong atheist on past and current claims of "god". The word itself has absolutly no substance. It is merely what the beleiver wants it to be. Will that change beyond that? Who knows? But if I had to bet on it, it is infinatly unlikely that a "super" whatever exists.

No human knows what the future holds. But we can asses what has been claimed and what is being currently claimed. I am not afraid one bit to throw absurd claims into file 13. So far everything anyone has claimed giving that claim that 3 letter word falls way short of any semblance of reality,

Do I know god doesnt exist? No more than I know that a giant teapot is or is not orbiting jupiter. But just because words are uttered and a claim is made is a far cry from evidence. 

Currently the needle is pointing away from, not toward, a magical puppiteer in the sky. Will that change? I'm not going to say no but I would in no way hedge my bets on it.

God/god/deity/supernatural/universal conciousness, are all the same thing to me. Merely human projections of wishfull thinking. That is my current position. And it is not based on "there is no god". It is based on lack of evidence, SO FAR. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37