Why do you stoop to the low of the Christians...

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Why do you stoop to the low of the Christians...

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----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Anonymous
Date: Sep 1, 2006 4:54 PM

I can see how you can be against god. You don't have to believe in anything. But why proclaim it and protest god, that’s stooping to the low of a Christian that would force his religion on you.

I for one believe in god, not because my parents do, not because I go to church (I don't), but because I choose to believe there is more to the world that atoms reacting to forces since the big bang. Sure I don't believe in everything, like Adam and Eve, and I accept the fact that there is no proof of god, that is why it’s called faith right?

People always hit me with the "WHAT KIND OF LOVING GOD WOULD CREATE SUCH A WORLD OF PAIN?!" It’s our part to make the world, better, with a god or not. Sure there are thousands of foolish religious fanatics that do incredible dumb things in the name of religion, but you are doing some of the same against religion.

Don't get me wrong, I don't take you for suicide bombers, crusaders, money stealing bishops, or cultists, but "12. The claim that the bible is a good source for morality", are you saying mother Teresa wasn't morally correct by fallowing the bible?

A man can fallow science and still believe in god, I choose to believe, cause what is the worst that can happen? I did a few good deeds, and now I'm dead. But had I openly protested god, and I was wrong, there would be hell to pay (literally).

That’s all I really have to say, I tried to make it into paragraphs to go easy on your eyes, I know how much of a bitch that can be, and I'm sure you've been sent similar messages hundreds of times, but I have yet to hear the answer.

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GodStoleMyFriends
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Quote:

Quote:

I can see how you can be against god. You don't have to believe in anything. But why proclaim it and protest god, that’s stooping to the low of a Christian that would force his religion on you.

Hello! First of all we aren't against God. As atheists we have a lack of belief in god or gods, therefore we cannot be against something we do not believe exists. For example, are you against the invisible pink unicorn?

We aren't protesting God (see above), we are attempting to help theists and any other irrational person open their eyes and realize that they are lying to themselves. We do this because we love humanity too much to let it flush itself down the shitter.

We are not forcing atheism down the throats of anyone. We present evidence against the existence God and only ask that believers provide us with evidence that proves his existence. Which of course they can't. Our purpose is not to force people out of their religion, but open their eyes to the lie so that they may realize the truth themselves. The key word being themselves.

Quote:

I for one believe in god, not because my parents do, not because I go to church (I don't), but because I choose to believe there is more to the world that atoms reacting to forces since the big bang. Sure I don't believe in everything, like Adam and Eve, and I accept the fact that there is no proof of god, that is why it’s called faith right?

Do you know what Mark Twain said faith is? "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." Faith isn't enough for anyone who thinks rationally. If there is no evidence for the existence of God...then why believe in him? That isn't rational. If I told you a group of hobbits lived in my backyard and when you asked for evidence I said,"I have faith that they are there."...would you believe me? Of course not.

Quote:

People always hit me with the "WHAT KIND OF LOVING GOD WOULD CREATE SUCH A WORLD OF PAIN?!" It’s our part to make the world, better, with a god or not. Sure there are thousands of foolish religious fanatics that do incredible dumb things in the name of religion, but you are doing some of the same against religion.

If you've come this far already why don't you take that extra step and open your eyes to the truth? That there is no God at all.

As for your second point, the RRS has never claimed certain people are witches and burned them at the stake because a book told us to. We do not brainwash our kids with a lie and dub them "God's Army".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, I don't take you for suicide bombers, crusaders, money stealing bishops, or cultists, but "12. The claim that the bible is a good source for morality", are you saying mother Teresa wasn't morally correct by fallowing the bible?

Mother Teresa did good things because she was a good person. She and others may believe it was because of some God, however, I think that is unfair to her memory. She may have believed the Bible, but had she been following it she would have been stoning people for reasons like this:

God commands you to stone a person to death if they commit one of the following actions-

(a) striking your father or mother (Ex.21:15);
(b) kidnapping (Ex. 21:6 RSV);
(c) cursing your father or mother (Ex. 21:17 RSV, Lev. 20:9);
(d) touching a mountain (Ex. 19:12 RSV);
(e) allowing your ox to gore someone (Ex. 21:29);
(f) lying with a beast (Ex. 22:19) RSV, Lev. 20:15-16);
(g) sacrificing to other gods (Ex. 22:20 RSV);
(h) failing to observe the Sabbath (Ex. 31:14-15);
(i) drinking strong drinks while in the tabernacle (Lev. 10:9);
(j) committing adultery (Lev. 20:10 RSV, Deut. 22:22);
(k) lying with your father's wife (Lev. 20:11 RSV);
(l) lying with your daughter-in-law (Lev. 20:12 RSV);
(m) committing homosexual acts (Lev. 20:13 RSV);
(n) being a medium or a wizard (Lev. 20:27 RSV);
(o) being a witch (Ex. 22:18);
(p) being a priest's daughter and becoming a whore (Lev. 21:9 RSV);
(q) Blaspheming the name of the Lord (Lev. 24:16);
cursing (Lev. 24:14 RSV);
(s) coming near the priesthood (Num. 3:10);
(t) being a stranger who comes near the congregation's tabernacle (Num. 3:8);
(u) gathering sticks on the Sabbath (Num. 15:32-35);
(v) serving or worshipping other gods (Deut. 17:2-5 RSV);
(w) showing contempt for the Lord's priest or judge (Deut. 17:12 NIV);
(x) failing to obey one's parents (Deut. 21:18-21);
(y) not being a virgin on your wedding day (Deut. 22:20-21 NIV);
(z) being a betrothed virgin who did not cry out when seduced (Deut. 22:23-24);
(aa) having relations with your wife and her mother (Lev. 20:14);
(bb) telling people to seek other gods (Deut. 13:2,5); and
(cc) being a false prophet (Deut. 18:20).

What kind of moral book condones such things? (Thanks once again to RRS core member Rook Hawkins for compiling this list).

Now, with that said, did Mother Teresa do any of those things? Of course not. Therefore one should not give credit to God or the Bible regarding her good deeds.

Quote:
A man can fallow science and still believe in god, I choose to believe, cause what is the worst that can happen? I did a few good deeds, and now I'm dead. But had I openly protested god, and I was wrong, there would be hell to pay (literally).

This is something known as Pascal's Wager and it is a very weak argument. Ok, so you believe in God. However, there are many religions on this earth, each with their own God or gods. How do you know that the God you believe in is the correct God? Most god's are very jealous and if you believe in any other God besides them you will suffer their wrath.

Using this argument, Pascal's Wager falls apart. Sorry.

Quote:

That’s all I really have to say, I tried to make it into paragraphs to go easy on your eyes, I know how much of a bitch that can be, and I'm sure you've been sent similar messages hundreds of times, but I have yet to hear the answer.

Thanks! It does make it a lot easier.

The RRS gets messages like this all the time, and most of them are replied to. However, if there is any chance at planting a seed of doubt in someone...we will gladly reply to as many of them as we can.

"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank."-Woody Allen

"Atheism is life affirming in a way religion can never be."-Richard Dawkins


Susan
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Mother Teresa

Mother Teresa may have worked selflessly with the poor.

However, she could have been (should have been) promoting birth control in the poorest regions of India to women who could ill afford to reproduce. Their health could not withstand bearing the children and they could not support them. She had a hand in propagating the cycle of poverty for generations of homeless, starving people.

Yes, that's the Catholic thing, not allowing birth control, but in my eyes it's certainly not good and virtuous in this case.

Wouldn't it have been much more loving to help pull these people out of poverty?

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Faithless1981
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In response

Mother Teresa has been held in high regard to a lot of people, but in reality, she was human like everyone else, and had her bad moments, but they have been glossed over like many saints before her. One of the main things were mentioned, no birth control, which, like many of the other things she did, kept people very poor. And no, we aren't here to force atheism down people's throats. We provide information to those that seek it, and give a rational alternative to the irrational belief of a patron god that has spouts of rage. And we aren't against god, we are against irrational thinking, which includes religious belief systems. A lot of religious extremists and fundamentalists out there have all but declared war on us, and those that think differently then them. Are we not supposed to oppose them? How is that sinking to their level?


Brian37
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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
YOU RESPOND...

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: Anonymous
Date: Sep 1, 2006 4:54 PM

I can see how you can be against god. You don't have to believe in anything. But why proclaim it and protest god, that’s stooping to the low of a Christian that would force his religion on you.

I for one believe in god, not because my parents do, not because I go to church (I don't), but because I choose to believe there is more to the world that atoms reacting to forces since the big bang. Sure I don't believe in everything, like Adam and Eve, and I accept the fact that there is no proof of god, that is why it’s called faith right?

People always hit me with the "WHAT KIND OF LOVING GOD WOULD CREATE SUCH A WORLD OF PAIN?!" It’s our part to make the world, better, with a god or not. Sure there are thousands of foolish religious fanatics that do incredible dumb things in the name of religion, but you are doing some of the same against religion.

Don't get me wrong, I don't take you for suicide bombers, crusaders, money stealing bishops, or cultists, but "12. The claim that the bible is a good source for morality", are you saying mother Teresa wasn't morally correct by fallowing the bible?

A man can fallow science and still believe in god, I choose to believe, cause what is the worst that can happen? I did a few good deeds, and now I'm dead. But had I openly protested god, and I was wrong, there would be hell to pay (literally).

That’s all I really have to say, I tried to make it into paragraphs to go easy on your eyes, I know how much of a bitch that can be, and I'm sure you've been sent similar messages hundreds of times, but I have yet to hear the answer.

Quote:
Christian that would force his religion on you.

I'd believe you exept that "God" is on our money and in our pledge.

This is because Americans have been taught HALF the history of our country from a very clouded dogmatic google view.

It is true that the founders valued freedom of religion. But as most Christians unfortunatly buy into today that our laws were ripped directly out of the bible NOT TRUE!

"Lighthouses are more usefull than churches" Benjamin Franklin.

"Question with boldness the existance of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson.

"As the goverment of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" Artical 11 Barbary Treaty(Treaty of Tripoly) Signed by president John Adams without any dissent from either branch of congress June 10th 1797.

I value the autonomy of the individual, even when I think they are full of crap. However, I dont value anyone who'd sit in a postion of power and decide for me something so personall, especially when they insist on passive cerimonies or icons where others cannot object or debate.

"God" was not on our money or in our pledge our intire history. And if I agreed that "God" was supposed to be indorsed by government people like Jefferson certainly would not subscribe to the magical one people still believe in today. He rejected those fantastic claims and saw "God" as a being who started and stepped asside.

I agree that freedom of religion is protected. But I am tired of the popular beleif that only Jesus believers are intitled to partisipate in our highest levels of government. We have a Jew and a Muslim now in our congress. It took over 200 years for a Catholic to get ellected and even longer for a women to be asked if she would run for the presidency. I think that took far too long.

Not since Jefferson has this nation had a non-Christian for president and "no religious test " written in our constitution has been ignored for most of our history because of popular false belief about our constition and it's ownership. Our constition belongs to the citizens, not to one religion over another.

So, if you think we are mad you are right, we are. We are. We are mad that ALL religions of the world cannot religate the issue to a debate outside goverment and seek to institutionalize their deity as the boss of a nation. You think we are solely picking on you. In reality, dispite the fact we think you are full of it, we are out to protect your rights as well. The only way to do that is to demand that goverment to not choose sides and let us battle it out in debate outside schools, courtrooms and legislative bodies.

I have no fear of debate. I do fear politicians claiming Allah/Jesus/ Or Yahwey are goverment lawmakers.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Pascal's Wager, again. The

Pascal's Wager, again.

The worst that could happen is that you've wasted an immense amount of time and money to put a screen in your own mind to get between you and reality. You have to check with your church first.

That is to be pitied, not admired.


neon
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Susan wrote:Mother Teresa

Susan wrote:
Mother Teresa may have worked selflessly with the poor.

However, she could have been (should have been) promoting birth control in the poorest regions of India to women who could ill afford to reproduce. Their health could not withstand bearing the children and they could not support them. She had a hand in propagating the cycle of poverty for generations of homeless, starving people.

Yes, that's the Catholic thing, not allowing birth control, but in my eyes it's certainly not good and virtuous in this case.

Wouldn't it have been much more loving to help pull these people out of poverty?

Excellent points!

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