I saw people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open [YOU RESPOND]

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I saw people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open [YOU RESPOND]

From: dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: [General Question] Kirk Cameron is only one man

Mark sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

I am a christian, and I know God exists from the personal experiences I
have had with the presence of God and seeing awesome miracles that
happened in the name of Jesus, such as people being raised from the dead,
blinded eyes open, and the deaf being able to hear. It is not my objective
to tell you that you are wrong and that what you do is wrong. It is my
objective to see your group gather with some of the major pentecostal
leaders of this nation, such as Rod Parsley, Bishop T.D. Jakes, and
others, and speak with them about your beleifs.

I like Kirk Cameron, but I think there are more Christian leaders out there that would have a better
argument than what was presented to you in that debate you had with Kirk
Cameron. I don't enjoy the fact that you make a challenge blaspheming the
Holy Spirit, but you got some national attention and preachers are now
using what your group is doing and we are seeing hundreds and thousands of
teens coming to Christ due to the reality of what your group is ultimatley
trying to do, and that is to deny the God of this universe, in which our
Bible tells us groups would try to do in the last days. So your groups are
confirming the word of God without you even trying to.

I appreciate you taking the time to read this and I pray that you will respond and let me
know a little behind your groups actual drive and why it is your goal to
destroy Christianity or any other religion. If your atheist you need to
stop "beleiving" there is no God and actually try to seek Him to see for
sure that He is not real. Because the Bible says that those "who draw nigh
unto God, God will draw nigh unto them." He will reveal Himself to those
who seek after Him. I hope you see that there are some christians that are
not a hate group, but would like to know and listen to what really drives
you to do what you do. Thanks for reading this and I hope to get a
response soon.

Thank You


Remember we all beleive something. i just know there is more.

 

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Another pathetic, delusional

Another pathetic, delusional individual. Where are the peer reviewed studies of these medical miracles? Seriously, were there tombs involved, with angels coming down and pushing away the stone slabs, announcing to you the dead had been raised? Was there a guy standing there saying, "Person, stand! You are not dead!" Stop trying to live in a fictional universe. The Gospel accounts are edifying fictions - not realities. People do not raise from the dead, and the only way the blind see and the deaf hear are with science and technology, created by man not Gods. You are clearly lying about these incidents, and you are using the Gospel narratives as a foundation for these lies. You are no different than the early Christians who did the same thing - except they at least understood the Gospels as fictions. So in that regard, they were more honest with their legendary embellishments than you are. Stop living in a fantasy world.

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Ok, when you can get the

Ok, when you can get the American Medical Association to conduct experiments with live humans in which their heads are decapitated with a gilloteen(sp), in which the head regrows instantaniously, and the the AMA prints this in their scientific journal, then you will have something.

I dont know about you, but I am not stupid enough to partisipate in such an experement and I dont think the AMA would even consider your absurd claims.

Sounds to me that you are ,as the 70s Music infomercial from  Time Life music clips, "Hooked On A Feeling".  My response to your "feeling " is "STFW"? And to quote a little old lady from the Wendy's comercials, "Where's the beef?"  

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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

From: dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: [General Question] Kirk Cameron is only one man

Mark sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

I am a christian, and I know God exists from the personal experiences I
have had with the presence of God and seeing awesome miracles that
happened in the name of Jesus, such as people being raised from the dead,
blinded eyes open, and the deaf being able to hear. It is not my objective
to tell you that you are wrong and that what you do is wrong. It is my
objective to see your group gather with some of the major pentecostal
leaders of this nation, such as Rod Parsley, Bishop T.D. Jakes, and
others, and speak with them about your beleifs.

I like Kirk Cameron, but I think there are more Christian leaders out there that would have a better
argument than what was presented to you in that debate you had with Kirk
Cameron. I don't enjoy the fact that you make a challenge blaspheming the
Holy Spirit, but you got some national attention and preachers are now
using what your group is doing and we are seeing hundreds and thousands of
teens coming to Christ due to the reality of what your group is ultimatley
trying to do, and that is to deny the God of this universe, in which our
Bible tells us groups would try to do in the last days. So your groups are
confirming the word of God without you even trying to.

I appreciate you taking the time to read this and I pray that you will respond and let me
know a little behind your groups actual drive and why it is your goal to
destroy Christianity or any other religion. If your atheist you need to
stop "beleiving" there is no God and actually try to seek Him to see for
sure that He is not real. Because the Bible says that those "who draw nigh
unto God, God will draw nigh unto them." He will reveal Himself to those
who seek after Him. I hope you see that there are some christians that are
not a hate group, but would like to know and listen to what really drives
you to do what you do. Thanks for reading this and I hope to get a
response soon.

Thank You


Remember we all beleive something. i just know there is more.

 

[PARAGRAPH BREAKS INSERTED BY MOD]

Your post is so completely and utterly foolish that you should be grateful that stupidity is not a capital offense.

You are truly a waste of human flesh, a useless breeder who will pass on the disease of religion to the next generation of mindless god-whores.

You existence contains nothing of value. You are simply a puppet of religion. Only your eventual death could possibly count as a positive contribution to humanity.

Thankfully the inexorable passage of time combined with the aging process will eventually erase you from history

....and as is normal among the never-ending birth of new generations, even the memory of your former existence will eventually be forgotten ( humiliating isn't it ? )

Keep believing that God will raise you from the dead if it comforts you but unfortunately Mother Nature isn't religious and when she snuffs you out, you don't get a second chance.

Deal with it.

 

 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

From: dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com

I am a christian, and I know God exists from the personal experiences I
have had with the presence of God and seeing awesome miracles that
happened in the name of Jesus, such as people being raised from the dead,
.

 

Heh... believe me, if i ever had an inkling that necromancy was possible, i would be ALL OVER that cult, like a fly on shit... but alas... my dark designs shall have to wait

What Would Kharn Do?


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"I like Kirk Cameron, but I

"I like Kirk Cameron, but I think there are more Christian leaders out there that would have a better
argument than what was presented to you in that debate you had with Kirk
Cameron. I don't enjoy the fact that you make a challenge blaspheming the
Holy Spirit, but you got some national attention and preachers are now
using what your group is doing and we are seeing hundreds and thousands of
teens coming to Christ due to the reality of what your group is ultimatley
trying to do, and that is to deny the God of this universe, in which our
Bible tells us groups would try to do in the last days. So your groups are
confirming the word of God without you even trying to. "

 

I find it rather amusing when Christians talk about the "end of days". And how the bible through lose translations prophesizes when the rapture will happen. Any one can take a book that has been translated and modified for the last 2000 years and flip verses until they come up with something that "god" predicted. For example check out this site http://bibleprobe.com/smokeface.htm. It is merely a glorified religious form of numerology. If you look hard enough and warp what you find you can get what ever answer you were looking for. I don’t think the Christians get that for the last 2000 years the Christian population has believed that it will happen in there life times. WWI produced the same out cry that you hear now from evangelicals. It has become "The Greatest Story Ever Told"

Heath Gresham


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people being raised from the dead

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

From: dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:34 AM
Subject: [General Question] Kirk Cameron is only one man

Mark sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

I am a christian, and I know God exists from the personal experiences I
have had with the presence of God and seeing awesome miracles that
happened in the name of Jesus, such as people being raised from the dead,
blinded eyes open, and the deaf being able to hear. 

 

Does this guy have death certificates for the dead people certified by a doctor, with another doctor certifying that the person was brought back to life by reading hocus pocus religious incantations over the corpse? Does he have documented proof that a blind or deaf person who had no eyes meaning they were missing and they suddenly grew eyes in the presence of medical doctors after a similar hocus pocus religious spell, I mean prayer session? Exactly what documented proof by outside scientists and doctors were used? None no doubt. No indepedent veriafiable documented proof = bullshit not miracle.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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I agree with this person

 I fully agree with the comments made. God is the source of all knowledge and understanding. He created Heaven and Earth. He is the beginning and the end, no  questions about it. All will see in the end that He is real, and I pray for all of you when that day comes. God will have justice, and it will not be pretty. I am praying for all of you in hopes that you will see the light of Jesus. If you feel obligated to ask any questions about Christianity, please feel free to ask. If you can prove the Bible wrong, please show me where there is a mistake. People have been trying to disprove Christianity for hundreds of years, no luck so far....


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Quote:I am a christian, and

Quote:
I am a christian, and I know God exists from the personal experiences I
have had with the presence of God and seeing awesome miracles that
happened in the name of Jesus, such as people being raised from the dead,
blinded eyes open, and the deaf being able to hear.

On two seperate occassions, I was 'witness' to a 13-storey monster reaching through my bedroom window - intent on seizing me from my bed. Both occasions were, from my perspective, incredibly tangible and 'real'.

In neither case was there an actual monster present, or any actual danger to my person at all.

Tying a personal experience to a paranormal claim in order to enforce the idea that it 'actually happened' is dishonest, both to yourself and everyone you're trying to convince. Get objective - remove yourself from the situation, and start doing some serious thinking:

 - Was there another, more likely/rational explanation? (See 'Occam's Razor')

 - Is there evidence that what you saw is actually what happened? If there is, how concrete is that evidence?

 - Can anyone else corroborate your claim without your own insight?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (which is being far too generous) and assume you aren't passing along an outright lie. That being the case, I want you to very carefully re-examine your experiences with the afore-mentioned criteria. 

Quote:
It is not my objective
to tell you that you are wrong and that what you do is wrong. It is my
objective to see your group gather with some of the major pentecostal
leaders of this nation, such as Rod Parsley, Bishop T.D. Jakes, and
others, and speak with them about your beleifs.

Not for every fleck of gold in Fort Knox.

I know exactly what kind of people those ladies and gentlemen are, and I have no room in my life for them. They have stepped beyond ignorance or even willfull ignorance; they actively advocate for the propagation of ignorance.

A few such individuals, once upon time, took it upon themselves to senselessly try and alienate and destroy one of my most enjoyed activities. They are among the world's least worthwhile people, and deserve not a second of time from anyone.

Quote:
I like Kirk Cameron, but I think there are more Christian leaders out there that would have a better
argument than what was presented to you in that debate you had with Kirk
Cameron. I don't enjoy the fact that you make a challenge blaspheming the
Holy Spirit, but you got some national attention and preachers are now
using what your group is doing and we are seeing hundreds and thousands of
teens coming to Christ due to the reality of what your group is ultimatley
trying to do, and that is to deny the God of this universe, in which our
Bible tells us groups would try to do in the last days. So your groups are
confirming the word of God without you even trying to.

Your credibility just became so much thinner. Where is the evidence that teens have been actually drawn toward Christianity as a result of the RRS's work? I could see some dishonest groups twisting the message of the RRS in order to cast them in the light of the violent aggressor, but that even in that case the causal agent isn't the promotion of atheism - it's the manipulation and lies or religious groups.

Aside from that, I'm very curious: do you have statistics that support your claim? Or, at the very least, could you name your city and church so that we could conduct research to see for ourselves?

Quote:
I appreciate you taking the time to read this and I pray that you will respond and let me
know a little behind your groups actual drive and why it is your goal to
destroy Christianity or any other religion. If your atheist you need to
stop "beleiving" there is no God and actually try to seek Him to see for
sure that He is not real. Because the Bible says that those "who draw nigh
unto God, God will draw nigh unto them." He will reveal Himself to those
who seek after Him. I hope you see that there are some christians that are
not a hate group, but would like to know and listen to what really drives
you to do what you do. Thanks for reading this and I hope to get a
response soon.

Thank You

I hardly read that as a genuine 'Thank you'.

In the meantime, the agenda here is not strictly to maim your beliefs. It is to demonstrate the folly of unsupported claims and blind acceptance of 'facts' for which you've been provided no evidence. It is also to demonstrate the strength and appearance of genuine science, so that people understand both why it is important and how to distinguish it from psuedo-science.

 

Regards,

Kevin R Brown


Remember we all beleive something. i just know there is more.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com

dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com wrote:
I saw people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open.

 

No you didn't.


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Eight Foot Manchild

Eight Foot Manchild wrote:

dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com wrote:
I saw people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open.

 

No you didn't.

Well he might have actually seen what he believed to be people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open.  Of course, if he had been paying attention, he might have noticed that he was being conned by  bunch of people in on the con.  For example, look at the large number of people that were convinced that Peter Popoff "healed" people via miraculous intervention.  It would not surprise me if people that "witnessed" those "miracles" would be willing to write something like the OP. 

It's sad, but there are plenty of people that simply take things at face value and don't question the things being put forth in front of them.  So while it is possible that he's just lying, it's also possible that he "witnessed" his purported miracles.  Unfortunately, I can't give you proper odds on which one is more likely, so feel free to assign whatever odds you want. Eye-wink


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lledowyn wrote:Eight Foot

lledowyn wrote:

Eight Foot Manchild wrote:

dymyouthpastor@yahoo.com wrote:
I saw people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open.

 

No you didn't.

Well he might have actually seen what he believed to be people raised from the dead and blinded eyes open.  Of course, if he had been paying attention, he might have noticed that he was being conned by  bunch of people in on the con.  For example, look at the large number of people that were convinced that Peter Popoff "healed" people via miraculous intervention.  It would not surprise me if people that "witnessed" those "miracles" would be willing to write something like the OP. 

It's sad, but there are plenty of people that simply take things at face value and don't question the things being put forth in front of them.  So while it is possible that he's just lying, it's also possible that he "witnessed" his purported miracles.  Unfortunately, I can't give you proper odds on which one is more likely, so feel free to assign whatever odds you want. Eye-wink

Actually, I think Manchild's being more honest and open here than most of us who've already responded. I mean, there's no reason for us to take what's been said at face value - so why not just call this guy on what are obviously a pile of lies?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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God's Servant wrote: I

God's Servant wrote:

 I fully agree with the comments made. God is the source of all knowledge and understanding. He created Heaven and Earth. He is the beginning and the end, no  questions about it. All will see in the end that He is real, and I pray for all of you when that day comes. God will have justice, and it will not be pretty. I am praying for all of you in hopes that you will see the light of Jesus. If you feel obligated to ask any questions about Christianity, please feel free to ask. If you can prove the Bible wrong, please show me where there is a mistake. People have been trying to disprove Christianity for hundreds of years, no luck so far....

Again, why do we have to prove the bible wrong? What can you provide to prove the bible correct other than the same apologetics mentioned through out the site? You have made the same fundamental mistake most theists do, by placing the burden of proof on the skeptic. I do not fear your god, because there is no reason to believe it exists. However, if god is the source of all knowledge then ask it a few questions for me please. I asked some questions similiar to this when I was a christian, but it never got back to me.

If the bible is indeed true, can you offer us a timeline of events? When was the everything created? When was the "flood"? Who was the pharoah in the exodus? Why do christians still believe that eve was the first woman created by god? Why does the concept of heaven and hell evolve as the story progresses? Many claim the bible to be a book of answers, yet I would imagine most of us see it rather as a book of questions?

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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God is the source of all knowledge

You know this exactly how? Special messages sent to you encrypted in the Bible?

God's Servant wrote:

 I fully agree with the comments made. God is the source of all knowledge and understanding. He created Heaven and Earth. He is the beginning and the end, no  questions about it. All will see in the end that He is real, and I pray for all of you when that day comes. God will have justice, and it will not be pretty. I am praying for all of you in hopes that you will see the light of Jesus. If you feel obligated to ask any questions about Christianity, please feel free to ask. If you can prove the Bible wrong, please show me where there is a mistake. People have been trying to disprove Christianity for hundreds of years, no luck so far....

 

How do you know for sure that any of the following isn't the real story?

"   There are really many possibilities to explain our existence on the Planet Earth. Any of them could be the real truth.

1.       God created us just like the Bible described. He is the maker of everything in the Universe.

2.       As above except he is the project manager for developing life on our spiral arm only. He reports to a team leader for this galaxy. They are from an older civilization.

3.       Evolution developed life on Earth and just as likely in other favorable parts of the Universe.

4.       Our ancestors’ crash-landed on this planet and we are really from a high tech world. This caused the idea we lost paradise and immortality. It could also create the myths of the gods.

5.       Our ancestors are from this planet but are the residual of a high tech civilization following worldwide war or an asteroid strike. Encounters with some of the survivors created the myths of the gods.

6.       We are a space colony started 50,000 or more years ago. We have lost touch with the main base because the space ship captain, God crashed into the asteroid belt on his departure and no one knows our exact location.

   Any of these ideas and dozens more could be the real truth." - from one of my published books.

 

So other than the feeling you have that makes you all warm and fuzzy, you prove that God was as described by ancient people who thought the world was flat, that it was held up on pillars, and the stars were either gods or angels.

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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Kevin R Brown

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Actually, I think Manchild's being more honest and open here than most of us who've already responded. I mean, there's no reason for us to take what's been said at face value - so why not just call this guy on what are obviously a pile of lies?

You know what?  You're probably right, and I was giving the guy more credit than was deserved.  It's in my nature to give people the benefit of the doubt, but you're probably right in this instance. Smiling


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Wow, you actually observed

Wow, you actually observed someone being raised from the dead   ...but yet no one there thought that it was significant enough to document it ?

My, at least back in Jesus' day raising people from the dead would have been front page news.  I mean miracles like the ones you describe even made it into the fricking bible for goodness sake, and yet no one even bothered to bring a video recorder or produce a camera phone ?

 

It's a good thing that stupidity isn't a sin because if I were Jesus I would totally rip you to shreds  for being such forgetful, dim-witted, dumb asses.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


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If you can prove the Bible

If you can prove the Bible wrong, please show me where there is a mistake

Well the first mistake is withing the first chapter of the very first book of your acclaimed book of knowledge and truth. If after reading and re-reading you still dont see it, feel free to message me and i'll enlighten you. It's all downhill with mistakes after chapter one. And you can not disprove christianity...it's something that you follow and believe in. It's not something that can be tested.  Just a mental note that perhaps you should be more careful with your wording. No one is going to take you seriously in your fight for Jesus if you can't debate accurately.

The (White) Pearl


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He probably saw someone not

He probably saw someone not breathing being worked on by paramedics who revived him (maybe in a re-run of that old paramedic tv series). Eyes were probably corneal transplants and the deaf guy got a hearing aid. No mystery here, just another lying christian.  They'll make up any fiction to prove a point or con a moron. It's okay to sin while doing god's work.

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
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I wonder where is the video

I wonder where is the video of this alleged "raising of the dead"?


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I could give a fuck as to

I could give a fuck as to what "miracles" you've seen, and what cause you attribute them to.

This hypothetical meeting of yours would end up being little more than one side attacking with proselytization stemming from a "holy" book written a couple of millenia ago, that's been retranslated and rewritten so many times, there's no telling what the original message really was, and the other side retaliating with logic and reason. In the end, the believers would be ridiculed as delusional cretins, and the atheists would be branded as misguided fools or heathens with a grudge against God. No one wins.

The Church has done it's damndest to whip the masses into submission for hundreds of years. It was only a matter of time before someone whipped back.

How can we confirm the word of a God that we don't even think exists?

I will agree that there are a good number of Xians that are sincerely curious as to our point of view, but would you guys mind telling the rest of the flock to shut the fuck up, please? I don't know about any of the other heathens here, but I'm kinda getting tired of having the same arguments thrown at me every day, as if they're some new way to convince me that I'm wrong. It's getting old. Thanks.

 


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Belief infects their minds

Christians could be seen as an analogy to those bitten in the movie series Resident Evil. After they have been infected they simply have no other purpose but to destroy the lives of others. Those infected walk blindly through life spreading tripe based on ancient mythology and no longer have a mind capable of rational thought. They of course don't see it that way as they are blinded by the disease of the invisible mythical sky monster.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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If it's all the same, I'll

If it's all the same, I'll take the zombie bite over the constant bitching and moaning, please.


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I once travelled with an

I once travelled with an Evangelist , once while at a crusade  a friend of his friend was horribly hurt in an accident.

Word was he went DOA as they arrived. We were at the hospital a few moments after they arrived. the evangelist was holding hands in a prayer circle for about an hour.. the nurse finally came out and reported they had stabilized him.

In the eyes of the doctor, he was saved by the fast actions of the staff and a defib machine.

When we got back to the home base church. I sat there and listened to the preacher tell them how he raised the dead in jesus's name.

From what I witnessed... I give one point to the doctors for good work, and one point to the preacher for creating good spin...

 

Renshia
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I just can’t believe that people waste all this time being one thing for something else, they waste all this time and energy on developing some mythological construct as an excuse to live as a person should. What a pathetic waste of energy.


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seeking

I wonder a lot about science & stuff. You know, I'm the sort that wants to experience it for myself. I started getting ticked off in school with science theories that keep changing and evolving. Experts from one generation are often laughed at by the next... made me wonder what basis are rationale is grounded in today... think it will change? What about the factors we don't know about yet to be discovered by new as yet undiscovered measuring techniques? Will our great, great,g reat grandkids laugh at our ignorance?

Anyhow, I got off my butt and left my cozy chair at home and saved hard to go wander - search I suppose. Ever gone to the middle east or listened to other cultures view points on science and the way they see life?  Amazing, what's the word... um, enlightening (?) Make me wonder about "tolerance" and that I heard about for years out of India. Then in Africa I watched some stuff too. Do you think all voodoo/witchdoctors are unscientific and therefore all ignorant and misguided? Many and even most probably are - but there's plenty unexplained stuff I came across that can't be reasoned away. Too many unanswered questions.

I'm probably just stupid - but I think this place is bigger than all of us and our theories - and the ones to come. I think we're pretty fiull of it if we think we can sit and judge others by our rationale. Do you think we westerners have come to reverance science much like other cultures worship their gods? Our self worth is so fragile that we daren't consider anything that might challenge established thought. Galileo paid for thinking outside of the box.


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Wonderer wrote:I wonder a

Wonderer wrote:

I wonder a lot about science & stuff. You know, I'm the sort that wants to experience it for myself. I started getting ticked off in school with science theories that keep changing and evolving.

Wait, you got "ticked off in school" because humanity's body of knowledge keeps improving?  I am not optimistic about the rest of this post...

Quote:

Experts from one generation are often laughed at by the next... made me wonder what basis are rationale is grounded in today... think it will change? What about the factors we don't know about yet to be discovered by new as yet undiscovered measuring techniques? Will our great, great,g reat grandkids laugh at our ignorance?

I am sure they will.  I am also sure the basis for their derision will be based in new discoveries in falsifiable, repeatable experiments.

Quote:

Anyhow, I got off my butt and left my cozy chair at home and saved hard to go wander - search I suppose. Ever gone to the middle east or listened to other cultures view points on science and the way they see life?  Amazing, what's the word... um, enlightening (?)

Travelling to learn about other cultures and histories is admirable; it gives you greater perspective on where you are and where you've been.

Quote:

Then in Africa I watched some stuff too. Do you think all voodoo/witchdoctors are unscientific

Yes.

Quote:

and therefore all ignorant and misguided?

No.

Quote:

Many and even most probably are - but there's plenty unexplained stuff I came across that can't be reasoned away. Too many unanswered questions.

Try us.  Chalking up to magic that which you do not understand is silly.  Seek answers, and remember that the right answer is never "magic".

Quote:

I'm probably just stupid - but I think this place is bigger than all of us and our theories - and the ones to come. I think we're pretty fiull of it if we think we can sit and judge others by our rationale. Do you think we westerners have come to reverance science much like other cultures worship their gods?

So are you a post-modernist, anti-judgement, "different-ways-of-knowing" proponent, or do you honestly think that magicians can control the weather, cause crop failures or sickness, change into animals and any other power ever credited to medicine men?

If it's the former, I urge you to get over the idea that all ideas are somehow equal, and that people with ideas are inherently deserving of respect.

I do not worship science, I recognize it for what it is: the best way of discovering reliable facts we have yet found.  Gathering facts gives us more power.

Quote:

Our self worth is so fragile that we daren't consider anything that might challenge established thought. Galileo paid for thinking outside of the box.

No; Galileo paid for pointing out that the emperor had no clothes.

It's not that I am averse to wonder and mystery; it's that answers have to make sense.

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maybe if this sig is witty, someone will love me.


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[quote]I am a christian, and

Quote:


I am a christian, and I know God exists from the personal experiences I
have had with the presence of God and seeing awesome miracles that
happened in the name of Jesus, such as people being raised from the dead,
blinded eyes open, and the deaf being able to hear.

 

Funny how you never see amputees healed. Any Idea why? God must hate amputees.

 

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KNBwQLsp98

Writing God off is writing yourself off from the only One who ever truly loves the real you Sad

Been reading some of your posts... you might be winning the argument intellectually  but most of you seem so discontented and unhappy...? Sad

1Co 1:17  Christ did not send me to baptize. He sent me to tell the Good News, and to tell it without using the language of human wisdom, in order to make sure that Christ's death on the cross is not robbed of its power.
1Co 1:18  For the message about Christ's death on the cross is nonsense to those who are being lost; but for us who are being saved it is God's power.
1Co 1:19  The scripture says, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and set aside the understanding of the scholars."
1Co 1:20  So then, where does that leave the wise? or the scholars? or the skillful debaters of this world? God has shown that this world's wisdom is foolishness!
1Co 1:21  For God in his wisdom made it impossible for people to know him by means of their own wisdom. Instead, by means of the so-called "foolish" message we preach, God decided to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22  Jews want miracles for proof, and Greeks look for wisdom.
1Co 1:23  As for us, we proclaim the crucified Christ, a message that is offensive to the Jews and nonsense to the Gentiles;
1Co 1:24  but for those whom God has called, both Jews and Gentiles, this message is Christ, who is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25  For what seems to be God's foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and what seems to be God's weakness is stronger than human strength.

I pray that you would all open your lives to Him - open your hearts... and enter into the amazing understanding of what it means to be truly loved and accepted for exactly who you are but not only that... It will be the start of the biggest adventure you could ever have imagined for your LIFE... Smiling He is amazing.

I fully expect you to rip what I've said to shreds... but that's ok... I've said it... I know it... People thought the earth was flat and just because you don't believe in gravity doesn't mean it will cease to exist or stop influencing your life for good. God is not intimidated by your arguments or your "rational reasonings"... He's not afraid of your questions... If you want to know something ask Him... Ask Him if He exists... Ask Him if He loves you... He will answer you as He answered me... Smiling

Love in its purest form gives of itself always and expects nothing in return... ( 1 Corinthians 13 v 4 - 8a) That's irrational. I want an all-consuming love... a love that comforts and heals and helps and seeks me out... I want to experience irrational love every day... and I do Smiling ... Keep your intellectualism... I choose Jesus.


jcgadfly
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_Andrea_

_Andrea_ wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KNBwQLsp98

Writing God off is writing yourself off from the only One who ever truly loves the real you Sad

Been reading some of your posts... you might be winning the argument intellectually  but most of you seem so discontented and unhappy...? Sad

1Co 1:17  Christ did not send me to baptize. He sent me to tell the Good News, and to tell it without using the language of human wisdom, in order to make sure that Christ's death on the cross is not robbed of its power.
1Co 1:18  For the message about Christ's death on the cross is nonsense to those who are being lost; but for us who are being saved it is God's power.
1Co 1:19  The scripture says, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and set aside the understanding of the scholars."
1Co 1:20  So then, where does that leave the wise? or the scholars? or the skillful debaters of this world? God has shown that this world's wisdom is foolishness!
1Co 1:21  For God in his wisdom made it impossible for people to know him by means of their own wisdom. Instead, by means of the so-called "foolish" message we preach, God decided to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22  Jews want miracles for proof, and Greeks look for wisdom.
1Co 1:23  As for us, we proclaim the crucified Christ, a message that is offensive to the Jews and nonsense to the Gentiles;
1Co 1:24  but for those whom God has called, both Jews and Gentiles, this message is Christ, who is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25  For what seems to be God's foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and what seems to be God's weakness is stronger than human strength.

I pray that you would all open your lives to Him - open your hearts... and enter into the amazing understanding of what it means to be truly loved and accepted for exactly who you are but not only that... It will be the start of the biggest adventure you could ever have imagined for your LIFE... Smiling He is amazing.

I fully expect you to rip what I've said to shreds... but that's ok... I've said it... I know it... People thought the earth was flat and just because you don't believe in gravity doesn't mean it will cease to exist or stop influencing your life for good. God is not intimidated by your arguments or your "rational reasonings"... He's not afraid of your questions... If you want to know something ask Him... Ask Him if He exists... Ask Him if He loves you... He will answer you as He answered me... Smiling

Love in its purest form gives of itself always and expects nothing in return... ( 1 Corinthians 13 v 4 - 8a) That's irrational. I want an all-consuming love... a love that comforts and heals and helps and seeks me out... I want to experience irrational love every day... and I do Smiling ... Keep your intellectualism... I choose Jesus.

No ripping but if you're a Christian why are you preaching Paulism and the stolen concepts that he calls "Christ"? Shouldn't you be using the words of Jesus Christ?

For that matter, why do so many Christians resort to quoting Paul when they're defending Jesus?

I don't want to open my heart to Paul, thanks.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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_Andrea_ wrote:  Writing

_Andrea_ wrote:

 

Writing God off is writing yourself off from the only One who ever truly loves the real you Sad

There are those that would say the same about allah.Guess it would help if god made his existence a leeeetle more obvious.

_Andrea_ wrote:
Been reading some of your posts... you might be winning the argument intellectually  but most of you seem so discontented and unhappy...? Sad

Well Andrea,I like to think I'm pretty nice when answering theists.But really,why do you all assume we are unhappy? I assure you, I am rather content with life and enjoy it. I will also tell you I was a commited christian.I'm happier now.

 

_Andrea_ wrote:
1Co 1:17  Christ did not send me to baptize. He sent me to tell the Good News, and to tell it without using the language of human wisdom, in order to make sure that Christ's death on the cross is not robbed of its power.
1Co 1:18  For the message about Christ's death on the cross is nonsense to those who are being lost; but for us who are being saved it is God's power.
1Co 1:19  The scripture says, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and set aside the understanding of the scholars."
1Co 1:20  So then, where does that leave the wise? or the scholars? or the skillful debaters of this world? God has shown that this world's wisdom is foolishness!
1Co 1:21  For God in his wisdom made it impossible for people to know him by means of their own wisdom. Instead, by means of the so-called "foolish" message we preach, God decided to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22  Jews want miracles for proof, and Greeks look for wisdom.
1Co 1:23  As for us, we proclaim the crucified Christ, a message that is offensive to the Jews and nonsense to the Gentiles;
1Co 1:24  but for those whom God has called, both Jews and Gentiles, this message is Christ, who is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25  For what seems to be God's foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and what seems to be God's weakness is stronger than human strength.

Cool I've read the bible too you know.

_Andrea_ wrote:
I pray that you would all open your lives to Him - open your hearts... and enter into the amazing understanding of what it means to be truly loved and accepted for exactly who you are but not only that... It will be the start of the biggest adventure you could ever have imagined for your LIFE... Smiling He is amazing.

Been there,done that, got the phsychological scarring,sub standard religious education, and hostility when I left?

_Andrea_ wrote:
I fully expect you to rip what I've said to shreds... but that's ok... I've said it... I know it... People thought the earth was flat and just because you don't believe in gravity doesn't mean it will cease to exist or stop influencing your life for good. God is not intimidated by your arguments or your "rational reasonings"... He's not afraid of your questions... If you want to know something ask Him... Ask Him if He exists... Ask Him if He loves you... He will answer you as He answered me... Smiling

He may not be scared but he sure doesn't seem to have any answers either.

Ok I asked him if he exists and if he loves me,right now, out loud.Didn't get anything.Sorry.

_Andrea_ wrote:
Love in its purest form gives of itself always and expects nothing in return... ( 1 Corinthians 13 v 4 - 8a) That's irrational. I want an all-consuming love... a love that comforts and heals and helps and seeks me out... I want to experience irrational love every day... and I do Smiling ... Keep your intellectualism... I choose Jesus.

Ok,but be prepared for the fact that like all many irrational beliefs, my intellectualism will eventually remove your jesus,since he seems incapable of ansering any arguments.

 

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


pauljohntheskeptic
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_Andrea_ wrote:I pray that

_Andrea_ wrote:

I pray that you would all open your lives to Him - open your hearts... and enter into the amazing understanding of what it means to be truly loved and accepted for exactly who you are but not only that... It will be the start of the biggest adventure you could ever have imagined for your LIFE... Smiling He is amazing.

I fully expect you to rip what I've said to shreds... but that's ok... I've said it... I know it... People thought the earth was flat and just because you don't believe in gravity doesn't mean it will cease to exist or stop influencing your life for good. God is not intimidated by your arguments or your "rational reasonings"... He's not afraid of your questions... If you want to know something ask Him... Ask Him if He exists... Ask Him if He loves you... He will answer you as He answered me... Smiling

Love in its purest form gives of itself always and expects nothing in return... ( 1 Corinthians 13 v 4 - 8a) That's irrational. I want an all-consuming love... a love that comforts and heals and helps and seeks me out... I want to experience irrational love every day... and I do Smiling ... Keep your intellectualism... I choose Jesus.

Thanks for quoting my namesake Paul, like I haven't read and memorized his writing when I was in parochial school or when I went to a Jesuit University. I have over 20 years of training in Christian belief so saying the nice things you do are not going to alter anything. I actually have 6 different Bible versions myself and more on CD. Since Paul has such disdain for women I'm surprised you would use his words at all but then I guess wives that are abused claim to love their abusive husbands too.

I only wish for you that you open your eyes and understand you believe in a fantasy derived from ancient ignorance. They attributed everything to an invisible God to explain it all. Christianity warped the original belief of Judaism into something else entirely. I would guess you have no idea why the Jews reject your beliefs. If you start there perhaps you can see some of the holes in your belief. If not, peace be to you, be happy, have a good day.

It's interesting you try to use science against us when it is science that showed the Church the Earth was not flat in the first place. The Bible  is a poor source of learning for science as it has everything wrong. If the inspired writers of God thought the Earth was on pillars and flat, stars were angels or could be cast upon the Earth to destroy it why would anything else be correctly inspired. Good luck to you in your pursuits but try not to let it destroy your life too much.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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{This is deludedgod. I am

{This is deludedgod. I am signing in anon because I have forgotten my password. This is because my computer has been set to auto-log in for at least a year, and as such I have not used the password for some time. However, I have recently reinstalled windows and as such lost that data. If an admin is reading this, please send my password to the above-given email address).

 

Now to business.

 

Quote:

started getting ticked off in school with science theories that keep changing and evolving.

I am suprised that nobody pointed out the contradiction in this person;s post. He/she kept attempting to construe science as a dogmatic religion, yet simultaneously admitted that scientific understanding of the universe constantly updates. Hence, they have presented an internal contradiction. This is why it is so amusing that she/he mentioned Galileo. Galileo found convincing scientific evidence of heliocentricity, and was attacked for it by a religious body. In our day, many people assert that science has become like a religion. This is not correct. The reason that such people get away with these claims is the manner in which science is presented, as a set of disjointed facts in different branches. Yet, this is not the case. Science is a methodology and claims hence must be judged with respect to scientific methodologies. If I wish to evaluate the idea that an atom is a charged body with a partially positive center of concentrated charge and large mass, and the the much volumetrically larger outer layers constitute a haze of negative charges of infinitesemal masses, I must evaluate the Geiger-Marsden experiment and the associated experiments, and of course, all the experiments that followed it that tested other testable predictions of atomic theory. It is very interesting that this person linked science with inability to think outside the box, and simultaneously mentioned a man who "thought outside the box" by employing the scientific methodology. In my experience, most people who make this assertion have been presented science as a set of disjointed facts. In fact, science is a method of reasoning, and by absolutely all accounts, is with the exception of mathematics, the most impressive methodology in terms of accomplishments and understandings that has been devised in human history. This is what makes science so useful, that is, by definition, its knowledge claims are not measured by means of referrring to holy books and dogmas. Instead, its knowledge claims are based testable predictions about the empirical world which are gathered in an organized and logical manner. Most people are largely unfamiliar with scientific methodology even if they may have some appreciation of scientific facts because of the manner in which science is taught, and hence may make the claim you have. But this is not the case. As a method for gathering facts, we naturally expect that being that our theories are not dogmatic, that is, not absolute (here I mean dogmatic in the epistemological sense), we should expect they will be updated. So if many people are accusing science of being a religion, it is only because of its exalted place in society. Of course, this is a completely irrelevant factor of judgement when considering whether something is a religion because, the last time I checked, a religion constituted a set of rituals, beliefs and scriptures, usually organized around the notion of a supernatural being. Whether or not science has the same place in society as religion did 300 years ago is largely irrelevant, as this is not the manner in which we judge whether something is a religion. Science is a methodology which makes knowledge claims based on gathering data and considering the testable predictions made by hypotheses. The "change" that you purported to be "ticked off about" is therefore a hallmark of our inquiry. From an epistemological standpoint it also makes science largely unique (because in the context of science we speak of progress).

And to the poster to whom I am responding, you are correct. You are just stupid, because you've shot yourself in the foot by admitting that science changes and progresses and then attempt to construe it as a dogmatic religion. I might add that the "Western" is highly insulting as a large proportion of the scientific world are not Westerners, and non-Western civilizations have made serious and important contributions to scientific understanding and literature.


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Bump, hey ME, lots of xlint

Bump, hey ME, lots of xlint atheist posting here to send to my sick pauline friends, thanks, sincerely , me Christ !


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Can we at least agree that

Can we at least agree that their either is or isn't a God, a Trinity or not?  That would make only one of us right, right?  If we agree on nothing else, can we at least agree on that?  Assuming we agree on that one issue, let's say you are right?  That there is no God!  Let's say everything can be explained by science, technologhy, medicine, evolution, etc. and nothing Divine exists.  So when I die, I go into the ground and decompose or am burned up, and the world goes on forever and forgets me.  Ok, pretty sad, but ok.  Than, what do I loose believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?  Nothing, right?  I know we agreed up front we would only agree on that one thing, but humor me.  I loose nothing. 

Now, let's say I'm right and God does exist and the Trinity is real and the only way to escape what has been foretold in the Bible, is salvation through Jesus Christ.  What happens to you when you die, then?  When the believers are finally proven correct?  When Christ comes and judges the living and YES the DEAD too?  I don't know.  I think I will keep on believing and trying to glorify Him.  See in this situation, you do have something to loose.  What is the slang for that again?  Skin in the game?  Maybe that is why you choose to not beleive.  You have fear, so it is easier to denounce Him and become a slave for sin.

Now many athiests will claim to live better and more moral lives than their Christian neighbors.  I can't speak for all Christians and I have definitely done my share of sinning.  However, I have a question:  Compared to Christian churches and associations or in the name of Jesus Christ, over the life span of Christianity or the world, you pick, how many hospitals, schools, community centers, planetariums, etc. have been commissioned, funded, founded, etc. in the name of atheism or by atheists?  And a follow up question:  Why do you suppose that is?    

  


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Thanks be to God wrote:Can

Thanks be to God wrote:

Can we at least agree that their either is or isn't a God, a Trinity or not?  That would make only one of us right, right?  If we agree on nothing else, can we at least agree on that?  Assuming we agree on that one issue, let's say you are right?  That there is no God!  Let's say everything can be explained by science, technologhy, medicine, evolution, etc. and nothing Divine exists.  So when I die, I go into the ground and decompose or am burned up, and the world goes on forever and forgets me.  Ok, pretty sad, but ok.  Than, what do I loose believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?  Nothing, right?  I know we agreed up front we would only agree on that one thing, but humor me.  I loose nothing. 

Now, let's say I'm right and God does exist and the Trinity is real and the only way to escape what has been foretold in the Bible, is salvation through Jesus Christ.  What happens to you when you die, then?  When the believers are finally proven correct?  When Christ comes and judges the living and YES the DEAD too?  I don't know.  I think I will keep on believing and trying to glorify Him.  See in this situation, you do have something to loose.  What is the slang for that again?  Skin in the game?  Maybe that is why you choose to not beleive.  You have fear, so it is easier to denounce Him and become a slave for sin.

Now many athiests will claim to live better and more moral lives than their Christian neighbors.  I can't speak for all Christians and I have definitely done my share of sinning.  However, I have a question:  Compared to Christian churches and associations or in the name of Jesus Christ, over the life span of Christianity or the world, you pick, how many hospitals, schools, community centers, planetariums, etc. have been commissioned, funded, founded, etc. in the name of atheism or by atheists?  And a follow up question:  Why do you suppose that is?    

  

<sarcasm>

Wow, Pascal's Wager.

Never saw that coming.

</sarcasm>

I will answer your questions though.

Churches and religious associations tend to be large groups of attention whores with a lot of money.

It's not so much a case of wanting to be helpful to their communities as it is advertising.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Welcome to the forum. Thanks

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks be to God wrote:

Can we at least agree that their either is or isn't a God, a Trinity or not?  That would make only one of us right, right? If we agree on nothing else, can we at least agree on that?

Yes.

Thanks be to God wrote:
Assuming we agree on that one issue, let's say you are right?  That there is no God!  Let's say everything can be explained by science, technologhy, medicine, evolution, etc. and nothing Divine exists.

No, you already screwed up. Just because there is no God does not mean that everything can necessarily be explained by science. That would require for there to be nothing supernatural at all, so now, you are proposing the assumption that there is nothing supernatural.

Thanks be to God wrote:
So when I die, I go into the ground and decompose or am burned up, and the world goes on forever and forgets me.

No, you already screwed up again. Just because there is no God doesn't mean there is no afterlife.

Thanks be to God wrote:
Ok, pretty sad, but ok.  Than, what do I loose believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?  Nothing, right?  I know we agreed up front we would only agree on that one thing, but humor me.  I loose nothing.

If you didn't lose anything, then why is it sad? You lose the time that you wasted believing and acting on a false belief throughout your entire life. And that's assuming there is no afterlife, which I've already stated does not necessarily follow from there being no God.

Thanks be to God wrote:
Now, let's say I'm right and God does exist and the Trinity is real and the only way to escape what has been foretold in the Bible, is salvation through Jesus Christ.

No, I agreed that there either is or isn't a God. There is either the Christian God or there isn't a God is not a dichotomy.

Please search for "Pascal's Wager" on google to find thousands of simple independent refutations of your argument, which is called Pascal's Wager. Also see here, here, and here. Nobody is impressed.

Thanks be to God wrote:
What happens to you when you die, then?  When the believers are finally proven correct?  When Christ comes and judges the living and YES the DEAD too?  I don't know.  I think I will keep on believing and trying to glorify Him.  See in this situation, you do have something to loose.  What is the slang for that again?  Skin in the game?

If Christianity is true, then nonbelievers go to Christian hell, duh.

Ah, so this is the part where the nonbelievers are so scared by your argumentum ad consequentiam that they're just going to convert? Sorry, but your argument is not even valid. Try again.

Thanks be to God wrote:
Maybe that is why you choose to not beleive.  You have fear, so it is easier to denounce Him and become a slave for sin.

We're scared of going to hell so we "choose" the path that takes us to hell? Yeah, I suppose that makes sense to a religious person.

Thanks be to God wrote:
Now many athiests will claim to live better and more moral lives than their Christian neighbors.

Many atheists do live more moral lives than many Christians. Why wouldn't they? They're all just people. It's empirically supported, unless you simply redefine being moral as being Christian.  

Thanks be to God wrote:
However, I have a question:  Compared to Christian churches and associations or in the name of Jesus Christ, over the life span of Christianity or the world, you pick, how many hospitals, schools, community centers, planetariums, etc. have been commissioned, funded, founded, etc. in the name of atheism or by atheists?

By atheists? A lot. In the name of atheism? Almost none.

Thanks be to God wrote:
And a follow up question:  Why do you suppose that is?

Because atheism is not a religion. Atheists don't advertise their dogma on everything they pursue because there is no dogma. There are many atheists working in hospitals, schools, community centers, etc. You just assume they don't exist because you don't know they're atheist when you see them. When you meet someone nice, you automatically assume they're Christian.   

What's the point you're trying to make? That doing good things for the PR is more moral than just doing good things because they're good?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Thanks be to God wrote:Can

Thanks be to God wrote:

Can we at least agree that their either is or isn't a God, a Trinity or not?  That would make only one of us right, right?  If we agree on nothing else, can we at least agree on that?  Assuming we agree on that one issue, let's say you are right?  That there is no God!  Let's say everything can be explained by science, technologhy, medicine, evolution, etc. and nothing Divine exists.  So when I die, I go into the ground and decompose or am burned up, and the world goes on forever and forgets me.  Ok, pretty sad, but ok.  Than, what do I loose believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?  Nothing, right?  I know we agreed up front we would only agree on that one thing, but humor me.  I loose nothing. 

Now, let's say I'm right and God does exist and the Trinity is real and the only way to escape what has been foretold in the Bible, is salvation through Jesus Christ.  What happens to you when you die, then?    

When are Christians going to stop parroting this crap, you really don't see how fallacious Pascal's Wager is???  AAAHHHHHH!!!!!  

Please, save yourself from the cold murky depths of intellectual bankruptcy and find out for yourself why their are so many things wrong with what you have said that most won't even respond in depth, just point you in the direction of common knowledge and logic, your wager is BUNK sir!!!  Theirs so many ways to refute it it's hard to pick.

 

How's this genius:  I believe in a god named Dalius.  In the book of Daliusious  14:8  it says that god only accepts intelligent, rational, logical and reasonable people to be in heaven.  All people who involved themselves in silly superstitions, religious dogma, or took ANYTHING on faith are simply not allowed in, they don't make the cut.  Dalius only wants the most reasonable and mentally acute entities to accompany him in heaven, people who ask good questions and need good answers, people who think clearly.   All others will be sent to "hell" which in the case of Daliusionism is a place for the crazies to spend eternity in their own silly delusions.   Now genius, if my claims are untrue what do I loose by believing in Daliusianism (well besides respect from others, wasted life,  etc...) lol not much, right???  But now lets say I am right, what have you lost by not believing in Daliusianism, well eternal life in heaven of course.  Surely by this flawless logic you can see you would be CRAZY not to believe in Dalius and not become a Daliusian immediately and reject the concept of faith, silly superstitions and learn the ways of the rational skeptic.  I mean common, given the choice what would you pick, cooommmmmoooonn join my religion!!!!   PPPLease.

   

My 5 year old niece can debunk Pascal's Wager you baboon.

 


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RationalResponseSquad wrote:

 It is my objective to see your group gather with some of the major pentecostal
leaders of this nation, such as Rod Parsley, Bishop T.D. Jakes, and
others, and speak with them about your beleifs.

Rob Parsley:

Fraud, charlotten, liar, cheat, snake, thief, conman, bonified turd burgeler and piece of shit, SCUM!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GmyCJebU7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vZW1gX_9_U

 

Bishop T.D. Jakes:

Preacher pimp, business man, conman and turd burgular. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Sm2fWMccA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPbn2XXso8&playnext=1&list=PL693C7594B622C872&index=11

 

 It is unbelievable some grown adults such as yourself can't see the con taking place here, and can't sniff the BS on these men.  It is truly sad you are that loose in the head and gullible, amazing.  I don't know what to make of it to be honest, your simply not that bright.  My pitbull could smell the bullshit and sense the fraudulance in these men.  Relatively smart conman snakes like Rod Parsley love people like you, and such types will continue to prey on the weak minded for many years to come.   I think you should run head first into a brick wall, this might perhaps awaken you from your blind gullible slumber.  I don't even know what to say exactly to someone who can't see these frauds for who they are (especially Parsley, common man it's SO fucking obvious), I guess I'll end by saying here's a ball, go play with it quietly in the corner and please don't bother the adults.

 

Oh and if you would like to send me a large donation in return for my false promises, I will send you my 4 cd set called "learning how to not be a gullible idiot," which contains no real information atall, it's pretty much just me rambling, telling stories, and fucking around.  Please call 1-800-IMADUMBASS and a nice pretty sounding lady will take your donation.  If you do buy my cd set you will be rewarded 10 times over with whatever it is you are looking for, money, women, cars, yeah, whatever you want.  Again that's 1-800-IMADUMBASS Don't hesitate, PLEDGE NOW!!!


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Thanks be to God wrote:Can

Thanks be to God wrote:

Can we at least agree that their either is or isn't a God, a Trinity or not?  That would make only one of us right, right?  If we agree on nothing else, can we at least agree on that? 

Nope, we can not even agree on that. As evidenced by all the various sects of Christianity alone that each believe they have the TRUE version and each have different interpretations. That's just Christianity. Not to mention Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wiccans and all the other belief systems that have ideas of an all powerful creator/spirit/entity.

Thanks be to God wrote:

Assuming we agree on that one issue, let's say you are right?  That there is no God!  Let's say everything can be explained by science, technologhy, medicine, evolution, etc. and nothing Divine exists.  So when I die, I go into the ground and decompose or am burned up, and the world goes on forever and forgets me.  Ok, pretty sad, but ok.  Than, what do I loose believing in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?  Nothing, right?  I know we agreed up front we would only agree on that one thing, but humor me.  I loose nothing. 

You wasted your whole life on a belief in the supernatural. You threw away all the chances and the opportunities to learn about truths and the real wonder of the universe by deliberately choosing to ignore all of the evidence and embrace superstition on  a mere gamble that there MIGHT be a spirit realm. You distorted life by thinking about eternity when you could have poured all the effort into this life. You based your whole existence off of an obscure text of twisted parables and let that be a determining factor in your view of reality.

Thanks be to God wrote:

Now, let's say I'm right and God does exist and the Trinity is real and the only way to escape what has been foretold in the Bible, is salvation through Jesus Christ.  What happens to you when you die, then?  When the believers are finally proven correct?  When Christ comes and judges the living and YES the DEAD too?  I don't know.  I think I will keep on believing and trying to glorify Him.  See in this situation, you do have something to loose.  What is the slang for that again?  Skin in the game?  Maybe that is why you choose to not beleive.  You have fear, so it is easier to denounce Him and become a slave for sin.

So your only believing for the selfish hope that you'll be able to get eternal Heaven ? The future of humanity and what you could do to make the world a better place or help those around you is solely motivated by the hope of a possible Heavenly Paradise ?

If the god of the bible is truly real, and is truly of the intolerant and condemning mindset that you think he is, I would not loose anything because I WOULD NOT worship something like that. I would rather reject him and go to hell. On the other hand, if there is a god and he judges actions, I still would not have lost anything because he would judge me by my character and not by my beliefs. How do you know the God of the Bible would not say to you : You truly did not believe in me, you only followed me for your own selfish reward and I cast you into hell ? 

By your idea, god creates people that he supposedly loves, hides all the evidence of his existence, gives people the natural curiousity to ask questions and draw their own conclusions, provides "miracles" that are easily explained by perfectly natural  phenomenon, refuses to confirm his reality, refuses to reveal himself to anyone, punishes people for their human nature, and at the very end is supposed to tell me that he only wants me to be with him so long as I praise and thank him for all of my existence ? I'll pass on that type of thinking.

Thanks be to God wrote:

Now many athiests will claim to live better and more moral lives than their Christian neighbors.  I can't speak for all Christians and I have definitely done my share of sinning.  However, I have a question:  Compared to Christian churches and associations or in the name of Jesus Christ, over the life span of Christianity or the world, you pick, how many hospitals, schools, community centers, planetariums, etc. have been commissioned, funded, founded, etc. in the name of atheism or by atheists?  And a follow up question:  Why do you suppose that is?     

I thought that Christians were supposed to humbly do their good works without advertising, yet it seems so many have to do so. Why do you suppose that  is ?

There are plenty of secular charities. Plus, think of all the countries that have grown largely non-religious and claim to have a high rate of atheists and agnostics, like in Europe. They function just fine, have humane practices and are not over run with total chaos. Why do you suppose that is ?

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno