Other than rational thinking do you have proof that God does not exist? [YOU RESPOND]

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Other than rational thinking do you have proof that God does not exist? [YOU RESPOND]

From: ljamar_blair@verizon.net

Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 2:43 PM
Subject: [General Question] God

 

 

Jesus Only sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

Hello to everyone that will read this, I am 19 years old and I have a
question for the Founders of the Rational Responds Squad, Sapient and all
others being Atheist which means you don't believe in any God,what proff
other than your rational thinking do you have to prove that God does not
exist?? And where do you get the information from which you say proves
that a God does not exist?? And why do you focuse so much on the Christian
Faith than any other Religion??? Because I heard Sapient I believe say that
he would not stop until the Religion of the Christian Faith was ended and
was no longer,so those are my questions and I hope to hear from you via
email or to speak with you via phone or with some other form of
communication.                                                           
                                                                    

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.


Nordmann
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A much safer ploy! Allow me

A much safer ploy! Allow me to join you ...

 

 

              

               

               

                

 

 

(It's a new Olympic sport for the rapturites - synchronised ascending)

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Renee Obsidianwords
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aiia wrote:CHRISTINE H.

aiia wrote:

CHRISTINE H. wrote:

ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS. YOU CALL YOURSELVES "RATIONAL THINKERS"! IF YOU ONLY FIND COMFORT IN KNOWING WHAT YOU CAN ONLY SEE IS TRUE. THEN TAKE THE TIME TO EDUCATE YOURSELVES. AND READ YOUR SCIENCE BOOKS, THAT YOU HAVE TRIED TO USE FOR YOUR SORRY CASES. DOES YOUR SCIENCE BOOKS STATE THAT...WOW THERE REALLY WAS A FLOOD DURING THE TIME OF CHRIST. WELL THAT'S NOT IMAGINARY IS IS. OR MAYBE THE SCIENCE BOOKS ARE LYING TO YOU, AND THERE IS A BIG CONSPIRICY GOIN ON. ALERT THE PRESS. LOOK INTO YOUR SCIENCE BOOKS AND NOT EVEN THAT CAN PROVE THERE IS NO GOD.  NOT EVEN YOUR SCIENCE BOOK CAN NOT DEBUNK THE EVENTS THAT THE BIBLE STATED HAPPENED

LOOK IN YOUR PRESCIOUS SCIENCE BOOKS AND SEE IF THAT WILL GIVE YOU PEACE IN YOUR MEANINGLESS EXISTENCE. AND MAYBE YOU CAN FIND SOME MORE CONSPIRICY THEORIES

My font is bigger therefore I am righter

 

lol

I call this the fallacy of all caps.

[edit]or an appear to emotions

aiia, you owe me a new shirt as I just drooled coffee onto it in an attempt to swallow before I laughed  Smiling   

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Renee Obsidianwords
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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

From: ljamar_blair@verizon.net

Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 2:43 PM
Subject: [General Question] God

 

 

Jesus Only sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

Hello to everyone that will read this, I am 19 years old and I have a
question for the Founders of the Rational Responds Squad, Sapient and all
others being Atheist which means you don't believe in any God,what proff
other than your rational thinking do you have to prove that God does not
exist?? And where do you get the information from which you say proves
that a God does not exist?? And why do you focuse so much on the Christian
Faith than any other Religion??? Because I heard Sapient I believe say that
he would not stop until the Religion of the Christian Faith was ended and
was no longer,so those are my questions and I hope to hear from you via
email or to speak with you via phone or with some other form of
communication.                                                           
                                                                    

I believe god exists....in a theists mind. It is a concept - an explanation to fill in gaps of understanding. Nothing more nothing less. Read a book, learn to think.

 

Slowly building a blog at ~

http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/


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Sleep paralysis

New believer wrote:
I don't have scientific proof God exists- but I do have pictures of a demonic entity. My daughter and I were attacked for two years. We experienced being woke up and then held down unable to move or scream, unexplained bruises, my daughters hand was cut in front of me drawing blood. A picture was taken the night of one attack by another person. In the picture are dozens of transparent circles commonly known as "orbs". Enlarging some of them revealed faces. One in particular is very evident of what it is- it has a distorted face with horns. I challenge anyone to debunk my pictures if interested. I was not a believer before but have been shown in so many ways that God does exist, and what's even more frightening is that demons do exist also. It makes me sad to see all of the misinformed people out there that don't believe there is another realm. We only experienced a small taste of what hell is. To believe the Bible- that is where non believers are going. Satan is alive and well and would love nothing more than for people to believe he doesn't exist- fooling many and taking them right with him in the last days.

 

It's called sleep Paralysis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

 

As a sunday school attending kid, I used to have demons "hold me down" when I suddenly woke up in the middle of the night;I was told demons/spirits were the reason.

What could be more comforting than telling a young child that an invisible and evil supernatural force was holding him down in the middle of the night? What did I ever do? Oh yeah. Original sin. What is possibly fair or just or omniscient about that?

To close the story. I started reading and stopped believing. Changed my diet and eating habits and ZAP! The demons were gone. Sans holy water, sans prayer [I tried, it didn't work].

 

 

 

 

 


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Sleep paralysis II

Oh and as a "side-note" when I experienced these paralyses, I experienced the feeling that there was an "evil force" in the room with me. In ingnorance I blamed demons, in knowledge I realized that is was just bad diet and sleep patterns.


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Sleep paralyisis happens all

Sleep paralyisis happens all the time, to many people... I really don't have anything to add besides that...

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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Mirror, mirror...

They really don't need to prove that God doesn't exist.  They aren't open to the possibility of his existence, and they have no concrete reason to be.  But don't let that shake your personal beliefs, because they are far more important than a petty debate like this.  You should simply agree to disagree with these folks, even if they aren't respectful enough to do the same for you.  Don't argue with them, because you'll lose every argument, every time, if you try to prove the logical existence of God.  It simply isn't possible, and if faith is your cup of tea, that really shouldn't matter to you.

Don't stray from the core of your belief system.  If it's based on logic, you have no choice but to side with the atheists.  If it's based on faith, stick with what you've got.  They're like oil and water-- one has to rise to the top.  It's up to you to decide if it's logic or faith, and personally I don't find anything wrong with either of them.

I consider myself a logical person, but I hold faith just a little bit higher than logic.


Nordmann
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Quote:but I hold faith just

Quote:

but I hold faith just a little bit higher than logic

 

Which, if your outlook is common, just goes to show how lucky the species has been to survive so long.

 

Or else perhaps you and your ilk are but selectively insane and in fact apply logic in the important areas of your life, even while you claim at the same time to favour belief without factual fundament?

 

It would explain your unlikely survival in the face of your assertion. It also explains beautifully why religion harbours so many frauds and liars. The religious person cannot be honest with himself.

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy


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Mirror, mirror... take 2

Which, if your outlook is common, just goes to show how lucky the species has been to survive so long.

 

Or else perhaps you and your ilk are but selectively insane and in fact apply logic in the important areas of your life, even while you claim at the same time to favour belief without factual fundament?

 

It would explain your unlikely survival in the face of your assertion. It also explains beautifully why religion harbours so many frauds and liars. The religious person cannot be honest with himself.

 

Actually, mankind wouldn't be half as far along as we are today without those of us who allow faith to guide our hard, logical core.  It's the basis of being a visionary, knowing that more is possible that what the facts we presently have might lead us to believe.  I'm not talking about God or religion, of course, simply the mindset in which faith powers logic like gasoline in a combustion engine.  Based only on the post you've just made, you and your ilk would be the "if it ain't broked, don't fix it" bunch, who'd still have us running around with sharp metal sticks and animal-based transportation, persecuting anyone with different beliefs.

There's a well-defined line between religious zealots and those of us who choose to have faith that something beyond our sensual and intellectual perception, even though we may not be able to define it, exists.  This view in and of itself does not conflict with logic, so long as you aren't arrogant enough to believe you know what this something is.  If there's anything science has taught us, it's that there is always another layer of the onion waiting to be peeled away if you have the right instruments and an open mind.

Science also tells us that there's a realm in physics that is inherently immeasurable to us, namely the planck length, meaning we're quite free to dream about what might lay beyond.  I have faith that somewhere in that mess, there exists a consciousness that transcends our own, but only because logic allows it.  There's nothing ludicrous about such a belief, there's simply nothing to directly support it-- yet.  I'm not talking about resurrected men, talking snakes, burning bushes, psychics, or levitation.

Do you realize that the vast majority of these Christians won't be converted through intolerance?  Blatant insults and overtly hostile responses will show these people that you are exactly as "evil" and immoral as their churches tell them you are.  By following this course of action, you, my friend, are being extremely irrational, letting your emotions and personal convictions cloud your judgment and harm your cause.  Personally, I think this type of behavior should be banned from the "rational" response as they are anything but rational.  It reminds me of a member of one religion telling another how stupid and horrible he is for believing in some other God, which is something I believe 'you and your ilk' are trying to do away with, no?  Lead by example.


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Pergatorius wrote:They

Pergatorius wrote:

They really don't need to prove that God doesn't exist.

Of course not, the burden of proof isn't on us.

Quote:
They aren't open to the possibility of his existence, and they have no concrete reason to be.

You dropped the term "reason," but from where I'm sitting, it sounds like you meant "personal gain."

Quote:
But don't let that shake your personal beliefs, because they are far more important than a petty debate like this. You should simply agree to disagree with these folks, even if they aren't respectful enough to do the same for you.

Ah, yes, just keep pushing that eon-old, insecurity, compartmentalized crap; your beliefs are too valuable to question.

Quote:
Don't argue with them, because you'll lose every argument, every time, if you try to prove the logical existence of God.

Can't take a hint?

Quote:
It simply isn't possible, and if faith is your cup of tea, that really shouldn't matter to you.

...


Don't stray from the core of your belief system.  If it's based on logic, you have no choice but to side with the atheists.  If it's based on faith, stick with what you've got.  They're like oil and water-- one has to rise to the top.  It's up to you to decide if it's logic or faith, and personally I don't find anything wrong with either of them.

I consider myself a logical person, but I hold faith just a little bit higher than logic.

I have to compliment your honesty here.

However, personally, I cannot give faith ANY credit since if your beliefs have adequate evidence to support them, then you don't need faith; faith begins where knowledge ends. Thus, a belief based on faith is simply a belief based on nothing, i.e., blind obedience. It necessarily follows that if the rational justification for your beliefs don't matter to you, then you can believe in anything. If faith is your cup of tea, you can go blow yourself up in a crowd of children thinking that you'll instantly transcend to heaven.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Mirror, mirror... pt 3

Butterbattle:

Faith is simply a different way of thinking about the world.  It doesn't require obedience or violence any more than logic demands that you exterminate the weak and crippled for the good of the gene pool.  Either way of thinking can be used wisely or abused, depending the brain doing the work.  If you skew the facts, you've got the rational under your thumb, fully convinced that he's right.  It's not much different from distorting a religion, and it's not much harder.  All you have to do in either case is gain the person's trust, lie to them, and then make sure your lies aren't discovered.

You're quite correct when you say that faith begins where knowledge ends, and that's part of its strength.  While logic has the luxury of always leading to a more correct answer, so long as your facts are correct, faith has the power to move the race forward in imprecise leaps and bounds.

Both are essential to the advancement of our species, and waging war on either is quite foolish.

Individual belief systems, sure.  They're easily corrupted.  But so is any culture, cause, or movement.

People are stupid.

 

But don't let me shake your faith that this course of action, insulting and belittling people because they believe differently from you, is the right thing to do.  Don't let me shake your faith that some day you'll put religion in its place.  Enjoy the power, confidence, and energy it gives you to come back to this site and talk down on the next wave of emailers.

Don't let anybody tell you that you're blindly following a cause that does more harm than good.  People need some bashing every now and then, don't you think?  It's the logical thing to do.


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Quote:Faith is simply a

Quote:

Faith is simply a different way of thinking about the world.

 

So is fantasising. You've missed the point.

 

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy


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 Quote:Faith is simply a

 

Quote:

Faith is simply a different way of thinking about the world.

 

I think you're confusing faith with optimism.

Eden had a 25% murder rate and incest was rampant.


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Pergatorius

Pergatorius wrote:

Butterbattle:

Faith is simply a different way of thinking about the world.

Interesting. How does it work?

Quote:
It doesn't require obedience or violence any more than logic demands that you exterminate the weak and crippled for the good of the gene pool.

What does it require?

Quote:
Either way of thinking can be used wisely or abused, depending the brain doing the work.  If you skew the facts, you've got the rational under your thumb, fully convinced that he's right.  It's not much different from distorting a religion, and it's not much harder.  All you have to do in either case is gain the person's trust, lie to them, and then make sure your lies aren't discovered.

Get to the point.

Quote:
You're quite correct when you say that faith begins where knowledge ends, and that's part of its strength.

Please explain how lack of knowledge is a strength.

Quote:
While logic has the luxury of always leading to a more correct answer, so long as your facts are correct, faith has the power to move the race forward in imprecise leaps and bounds.

Is the middle dependent clause, "so long as your fact are correct," referring to the first clause or the last clause? 

- If it is referring to the first, then please explain what faith is, exactly how it moves the race forward, and how it can do this without relying on logic.

- Likewise, if the middle clause is referring to the last clause, then why would you need faith? What possible purpose could it hold? 

Quote:
Both are essential to the advancement of our species, and waging war on either is quite foolish.

I disagree.

Quote:
Individual belief systems, sure.  They're easily corrupted.  But so is any culture, cause, or movement.

People are stupid.

I agree with you on this.

Quote:
But don't let me shake your faith that this course of action, insulting and belittling people because they believe differently from you, is the right thing to do. Don't let me shake your faith that some day you'll put religion in its place.  Enjoy the power, confidence, and energy it gives you to come back to this site and talk down on the next wave of emailers.

Don't let anybody tell you that you're blindly following a cause that does more harm than good.  People need some bashing every now and then, don't you think?  It's the logical thing to do.

Aw, thank you so much. Your meekness, honesty, and intellectual prowess (psh, only a couple logical fallacies) is so refreshing and humbling...really.  


 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Butterbattle:1 & 2:  I'll

Butterbattle:

1 & 2:  I'll refer to the second definition of faith.

"2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact."

Logic demands that your beliefs should be based on proof and probability.  However, the probability of accomplishing extremely difficult tasks severely diminishes if the group of people undertaking them don't believe in the cause.  There's a certain energy that belief can provide which knowing that "if we all work together we have a better chance of succeeding" just doesn't.

 

3:  The point is that the evils ascribed to faith, the reasons it should be abolished, have their roots in the people rather than faith as a whole.  Faith is just one of a great many different ways those people could have brought them about.  Websites like this, or anything else where people come together for a common purpose, are another.  It's part of human nature.

 

4: Refers to the first, and you can't do it without relying on logic.  Faith and logic work side by side in varying degrees, depending on who you are.  That's why I say it's foolish to wage war on either.  The example used on dictionary.com which I posted above is an excellent example of faith and science working hand-in-hand.  It may lead the scientist down the wrong path until he loses faith, but it may also lead him to a discovery that would've taken other scientists decades to make working from the ground up.

 

5: Glory, glory, hallelujah!  You've been saved!  Glad I could be of service. Eye-wink

 

To the guy above him:

Yes, faith is closely tied to optimism, see excerpt from dictionary.com above.

 

To the guy above him:

Grow up and enlighten me.


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I'll just ignore all of your

I'll just focus on the definition. 

This is the definition from Merriam-Webster. 

1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions

2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs 

Can your faith be described by 2 b (1)?

Pergatorius wrote:

"2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact."

Are you a Christian? Do you have "faith" that your belief in God will be "substantiated by fact" after you die?

Quote:
Logic demands that your beliefs should be based on proof and probability.  However, the probability of accomplishing extremely difficult tasks severely diminishes if the group of people undertaking them don't believe in the cause.  There's a certain energy that belief can provide which knowing that "if we all work together we have a better chance of succeeding" just doesn't. 

3:  The point is that the evils ascribed to faith, the reasons it should be abolished, have their roots in the people rather than faith as a whole.  Faith is just one of a great many different ways those people could have brought them about.  Websites like this, or anything else where people come together for a common purpose, are another.  It's part of human nature. 

4: Refers to the first, and you can't do it without relying on logic.  Faith and logic work side by side in varying degrees, depending on who you are.  That's why I say it's foolish to wage war on either.  The example used on dictionary.com which I posted above is an excellent example of faith and science working hand-in-hand.

 

Bla bla bla.

Are your beliefs based on logic and evidence or faith........or both? If your answer is both, what logic and evidence do you apply to justify your beliefs?

Quote:
It may lead the scientist down the wrong path until he loses faith, but it may also lead him to a discovery that would've taken other scientists decades to make working from the ground up.

You need to stop equivocating different definitions of faith.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Hear, Hear! If I had a

Hear, Hear!

 

If I had a dollar for every theist who in conversation failed to distinguish between reasonable presumption and blind faith ...

 

Personally when I hear it I think of the drowning man clutching despairingly at his last straw - the re-invention of semantics in religion's favour.

 

Inexact use of language indicates either ignorance or intention to deceive. If religious people persist in resorting to it as a defense then they must take into account that they will be justifiably regarded as either stupid or deceitful by clear-thinking honest people.

 

Not a place I'd like to be myself ....

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:


Hello to everyone that will read this, I am 19 years old and I have a
question for the Founders of the Rational Responds Squad, Sapient and all
others being Atheist which means you don't believe in any God,what proff
other than your rational thinking do you have to prove that God does not
exist?? And where do you get the information from which you say proves
that a God does not exist?? And why do you focuse so much on the Christian
Faith than any other Religion??? Because I heard Sapient I believe say that
he would not stop until the Religion of the Christian Faith was ended and
was no longer,so those are my questions and I hope to hear from you via
email or to speak with you via phone or with some other form of
communication.                                                           
                                                                    

Rational thinking is not the proof for the non existence of your God. It is just the tool used in order to show the proof.

Now unlike most, I believe that there is proof and the proof has been expressed a million times over. I could write a series of novels showing those proofs, but I'm sure you could more wisely spend your time looking into it yourself.

Now if you'd ask that we do not use rational thinking to show you proof of the lack of existence of  your God, but some other method, then you're dumb.


SevenScarletSharks
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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

 

Hello to everyone that will read this. I am 19 years old and I have a question for the founders of the Rational Response Squad, Sapient and all other atheists. You don't believe in any God. What proof do you have (other than your rational thinking) that God does not exist? And where/what are your sources? Why do you focus so much on Christianity than any other religion? I heard Sapient say that he would not stop until the religion of Christianity was no longer. Those are all my questions. I hope to hear from you via email, phone, or with some other form of communication.                                                           
                                                                    

The burden of proof lies on you to prove the existence of God. Since you can't prove that (or maybe you can, but don't show us any conclusive evidence), that is enough reason for me to be an atheist. 

Asking someone to prove or disprove something without rational thinking is like asking someone to hear without functioning ears. Rational thinking (which many Christians believe God gave to humans) is the reason for the success of the human species. If you're expecting to "prove" something with mere faith, you can douse yourself with cold water right now. 

You've got a mighty fine brain in that cranium of yours. It's the best database of all our experiences in the known universe. Laws of logic need no source. 

The reason we focus on Christianity more than other religions is because people are more familiar with it than other religions, there are many atheists on these forums who are ex-Christian (I am ex-Jewish), and because Christian fundamentalists are pervasive in the politics and culture of a supposedly secular American society. 

Sincerely, 

SevenScarletSharks

SevenScarletSharks reserves the right to be better than you.