I'm a medical professional I agree with Kirk Cameron [YOU RESPOND]

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I'm a medical professional I agree with Kirk Cameron [YOU RESPOND]

From: brinlee04@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: [General Question] Debate With Kirk Cameron

Brian  sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

Hello. I watched your debate with Kirk Cameron and I must say I was not
impressed with your evidence and comments. As a medical professional I
must agree with Kirk that all you need is your eyes to see that life is
more complex than a design by done by chance. As a result of watching your
behavior and responses and from what I've seen of this website, I believe
your "think tank" (or whatever you call it) is running on empty. The
hostility and anger in your voices during the debate didn't help your case
either.  It just seemed to me that both of you ( along with the atheist
belief in general ) appear smug and hypocritical, especially towards
Christianity, other religions, or just people in general who do not share
your view of our existence. Actually, didn't Adolf Hitler and the Nazis
use Darwinism- inspired eugenics  to justify his extermination of Jewish
people? Wow, atheism and/or evolution really can serve a purpose.
Unfortunately, it has never been a good one.

Brian

 


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"Medical Professional" is a

"Medical Professional" is a euphemism for "Not a Doctor."

How much do you want to bet that Brian is one of those guys who disposes of medical waste... a medical janitor...

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

"Medical Professional" is a euphemism for "Not a Doctor."

How much do you want to bet that Brian is one of those guys who disposes of medical waste... a medical janitor...

 

I put my money on "Candy Striper"

(Poor college student schmuck who donates his free-time to do menial tasks in a hospital for free... "Hey! i need my bed pan changed in here&quotEye-wink

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That was cute.

That was cute.


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Fortunately, the "designs"

Fortunately, the "designs" implemented by the natural selection process aren't random and show provable benefits to the species involved. the view you advocate seems far more chaotic and arbitrary (God created everything from nothing and it's good because he says so)

Oh, and Hitler killed the Jews becaus he marked them as scapegoats, blaming them for all of Germany's problems at the time. A lot like what the Christians did to the Muslims  in the crusades and what they and the Israelis are doing to the Iraqis and the Palestinians currently. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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I think Hambydamnit is

I think Hambydamnit is right. A medical professional could be anything, but probably not a doctor. Even if he were, does that make them more qualified to judge the evidence of evolutionary theory than someone who does scientific research?

Ouch, comparing atheists to Hitler again. I never tire hearing that one because it shows how little people understand history. The jews have always been despised for one reason or another. I think it's because their god wanted them to kill so many innocent people, but that is my own opinion. Besides, I always thought Hitler was a theist according to his own words. Wait, he must not have been "real" christian whatever that means. I figure if we are judged by the least of our own (atheists), we have every right to judge christians by the likes of Jerry Falwell and Jim Baker. I am sure most christians are offended when judged along those lines, so why judge atheists with atrocities such as the holocaust? Personally, I try not to judge others based on generalizations, but if someone wants to judge me by them it's time for the gloves to come off. How can we judge all muslims based on 9/11 to be jihadists and how can we judge christians based on the Inquisition? I won't hate on you because you see something I don't see anymore, but if you say there was a global flood I want proof. If the bible could be proven to be true, would I become a christian? Not likely, I spent some time as one and didn't suit me. The god of the bible is an ass plain and simple. If you don't like me for stating what I see as the truth then fine. However, allah is no better ,so yahweh is in good company.    

I saw the debate and I thought both sides reined in emotion pretty well. It is always hard to leave emotions from debate because that is such a big part of being human. The purpose of the debate was to prove god's existence without resulting in the use of the bible. They could not do it. If anyone thinks that Kirk and Ray won the debate I would like to know how. They put up the challenge and they said that they could prove god's existence. What they accomplished just proved that yes, we are here and yes there is something we don't understand with how it happened. Can anyone say god of the gaps?   

Why does the universe need a creator? If it is complex, then wouldn't a creator be more complex? To me, if god is more complex then the universe then how come a simpler explanation can't be more plausible? If god can exist unto itself then why not the universe? 

It always goes back to not wanting to prove the existence of a god, but the existence of their god. Why must theists insist that they have faith, but need to prove it to themselves and others? If you have proof then you don't need faith. Of course moses left and came back and god's chosen people were worshipping idols after witnessing miracles by their alleged god. Why would I feel bad about no faith when others who "saw" miracles first hand lost theirs'? Didn't they have proof in seeing the Red Sea part or the plagues? Even if you have proof faith isn't enough it seems. 

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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Quote: As a medical

Quote:

As a medical professional I
must agree with Kirk that all you need is your eyes to see that life is
more complex than a design by done by chance

Hence indicating you are not a "medical professional" or at least not a Doctor. To earn an MD requires one to grind through numerous prerequisite courses, one of which is biology. In the same way that Doctors crucially need to understand Bayesian analysis for using statistics in medical tests, they also need to understand evolutionary biology, especially in epidemiology and immunology, because of vector-based diseases and widespread use of antibiotics. And the first thing one learns about biological evolution in these classes is that evolution is a process by which variations under selection cause changes in gene frequencies. Again, this one-line fact underpins two entire disciplines in medical science. To say that evolution is "design by chance" (a contradiction) is to say that one is ignorant of the above fact (evolution is not chance) which means that our interlocutor most likely did not attend the necessary prerequisite courses in Biology to attend Medical School, indeed, most likely did not complete Biology in high school, since they teach you that fact there as well. I am familiar with this system since I actually did attend Medical School and I wish our writer luck if he ever plans on going.

 

Quote:

. Actually, didn't Adolf Hitler and the Nazis
use Darwinism- inspired eugenics  to justify his extermination of Jewish people?

No. The Nazi policy of genocide towards Lebensunswertes Leben was a highly irrational policy that, with respect to the Jews, sprung from propoganda-based fantasies about how the Jews controlled the world and were trying to destroy Germany. In addition, during the passing of the Nuremberg Laws, the Nazis employed a psuedoscientific basis for determing whether or not someone was a Juden or a Mischling. In addition, when the Nazis were carrying out their policies of Vernichtung against Jews, Homosexuals, political opponents, gypsies, Slavs and those with mental retardation or physical deformity, (anyone who did not fit into the Volksgemeinschaft) their primary justifications were based on an ideology that life was a race struggle in which the Herrenvolk would triumph. In other words, the Nazis employed a teleological idea about an absolute conception of "Master races" (Ubermenschen) and "Lesser races" (Untermenschen) innate to nature that would be meaningless to Darwinian evolution, since evolution does not have a direction. It would more accurately be described as an ideological form of the "Great Chain of Being" which was refuted by Darwinian evolution and then refuted again by genetics (which demonstrates that the concept of "race" as was once understood is meaningless).

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Quote: I put my money on

Quote:

I put my money on "Candy Striper"

I dont know how old your are, but when I hear those two words "Candy Striper" I think of a 1980s, drop trow and go to town, adult film.

 

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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

From: brinlee04@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: [General Question] Debate With Kirk Cameron

Brian sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

Hello. I watched your debate with Kirk Cameron and I must say I was not
impressed with your evidence and comments. As a medical professional I
must agree with Kirk that all you need is your eyes to see that life is
more complex than a design by done by chance. As a result of watching your
behavior and responses and from what I've seen of this website, I believe
your "think tank" (or whatever you call it) is running on empty. The
hostility and anger in your voices during the debate didn't help your case
either. It just seemed to me that both of you ( along with the atheist
belief in general ) appear smug and hypocritical, especially towards
Christianity, other religions, or just people in general who do not share
your view of our existence. Actually, didn't Adolf Hitler and the Nazis
use Darwinism- inspired eugenics to justify his extermination of Jewish
people? Wow, atheism and/or evolution really can serve a purpose.
Unfortunately, it has never been a good one.

Brian

 

 

Even if Brian's a surgeon, that doesn't make him qualified to speak on human origins, just medical practice. Sorry B. You could be the Surgeon General and I wouldn't accept your subjective experience as proof of God.

And the Hitler argument? Please... that doesn't fly here.

“It is true that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. It is equally true that in the land of the blind, the two-eyed man is an enemy of the state, the people, and domestic tranquility… and necessarily so. Someone has to rearrange the furniture.”


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

 

Actually, didn't Adolf Hitler and the Nazis
use Darwinism- inspired eugenics  to justify his extermination of Jewish
people?
 

 

No. Hitler was just a mass-mudering fuckhead. I defer to Eddie Izzard to fill you in on the knowledge of history you're lacking.

 

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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Quote:Actually, didn't Adolf

Quote:
Actually, didn't Adolf Hitler and the Nazis
use Darwinism- inspired eugenics  to justify his extermination of Jewish
people?
 NO. You are committing a grievous error by attempting to connect the dots to Charles Darwin in order to place blame for Hitler's atrocities.  Hitler fulfilled the goals of a vindictive Martin Luther.   

 


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define good one?

in the immortal words of Dogbert bah. Hitler / Nazis you have got to be kidding. Your bating technique is weak. Just because a group of people think your philosophical ideals are based on nonsense does not make them "smug" only different.

bodhi


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

From: brinlee04@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: [General Question] Debate With Kirk Cameron

Brian  sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

Hello. I watched your debate with Kirk Cameron and I must say I was not
impressed with your evidence and comments. As a medical professional I
must agree with Kirk that all you need is your eyes to see that life is
more complex than a design by done by chance. As a result of watching your
behavior and responses and from what I've seen of this website, I believe
your "think tank" (or whatever you call it) is running on empty. The
hostility and anger in your voices during the debate didn't help your case
either.  It just seemed to me that both of you ( along with the atheist
belief in general ) appear smug and hypocritical, especially towards
Christianity, other religions, or just people in general who do not share
your view of our existence. Actually, didn't Adolf Hitler and the Nazis
use Darwinism- inspired eugenics  to justify his extermination of Jewish
people? Wow, atheism and/or evolution really can serve a purpose.
Unfortunately, it has never been a good one.

Brian

 

Actually, Hitler was a member of the Catholic Church but used, I believe, the Protestant religion as the official religion of Germany and enlisted both them and the Catholic Church to ferret out Jews.

The only "think tank" running on empty is your brainpan, thank you.  You need to pick up a few good books (no, not the bible) on Atheist philosophy.  Also, rationality does serve a good purpose, it's christianity that has been of very little value.  Can you say Dark Ages and the Inquisition?

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
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i simply like Kirk Cameron

i simply like Kirk Cameron and what he say is right.  past is past we must not look back at Nazi but at present time.

 

kirk cameron

 

 


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mycarolina666 wrote:i simply

mycarolina666 wrote:

i simply like Kirk Cameron and what he say is right.  past is past we must not look back at Nazi but at present time.

 

kirk cameron

Yes, because anyone with this fashion sense is automatically correct.

"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers


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Quote:Wow, atheism and/or

Quote:

Wow, atheism and/or evolution really can serve a purpose.
Unfortunately, it has never been a good one.

Brian

 

Meh. If it weren't for atheists to poke at, you Christians would eat your own.


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Kirk and Ray are liars

Kirk and Ray promised to bring proof of the existence of god.  He did not do so.  Kelly and Sapien were asking what happened to his promise.  I thought they did a good job of staying nice asking for the proof they were promised.

Hitler killed the Jews because he wanted scapegoats to kill.  The whole eugenics b.s. was a way to try and come up with justification after the fact. 

"I am that I am." - Proof that the writers of the bible were beyond stoned.


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anniet wrote:Kirk and Ray

anniet wrote:

Kirk and Ray promised to bring proof of the existence of god.  He did not do so.  Kelly and Sapien were asking what happened to his promise.  I thought they did a good job of staying nice asking for the proof they were promised.

Hitler killed the Jews because he wanted scapegoats to kill.  The whole eugenics b.s. was a way to try and come up with justification after the fact. 

Considering they asked for the debate and did not follow the guidelines they agreed to, I think they were more than kind to them. For the uninformed masses of christians watching, it appeared that the debate was at least a draw, but when the rules were violated the win clearly went to the RRS.... sorry christians you lost by technicality.

Yes, but Hitler also had an axe to grind with jews for many reasons besides the humiliation of Germany after WWI. Martin Luther was very anti-semitic and I believe Hitler modeled much of his views from Luther.

The view of Darwinism based on a tautology of might makes right is not something that Darwin prescribed in on any level. Perhaps, for a time, but his cousin Herbert Spence was the one that coined the phrase "survival of the fittest" and Darwin later thought eugenics was flawed from a naturalistic stand point. The whole Darwin connection is just way too hyped up by theists, yet when you show them the evidence it does little to change their minds. Welcome aboard btw anniet.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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Hmac wrote:Quote:Wow,

Hmac wrote:

Quote:

Wow, atheism and/or evolution really can serve a purpose.
Unfortunately, it has never been a good one.

Brian

 

Meh. If it weren't for atheists to poke at, you Christians would eat your own.

Well they already do. Perhaps you've heard the hate from both catholics against protestants and vice-versa. I say arm both sides and let em fight it out...... sit back and watch.

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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Note he didn't say he was a

Note he didn't say he was a doctro - he said "medical professional." He could be the guy who cleans the blood and puke up in the ER or something similar. If a doctor thinks Ray and Kirk make good arguments I want to know so that I never go to that doctor. He'd probably use bloodletting or mercury or something.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


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Random Antagonism: (Or Scientific Investigation)

Hypothesis:  Kelly is part of Rational Response Squad not as an informative source but as a decoy to keep opponents from responding rationally.  Her weapon: Cleavage and lots of it.  (She also memorized some lines...this can be validated by turning up the volume and looking up apporxamately 4 degrees)

 

More investigation is required...please help

 

Sincerely, Old Man Valley Gazer