Look around you, God exists [YOU RESPOND]

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Look around you, God exists [YOU RESPOND]

 

From: mario_rom_555@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 1:13 AM 

Ricki  sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

I just came across an ad and stumbled on your website out of curiosity more
than anything. I come from a Christian Background and for a time mainly due
to personal circumstances and my own ignorance, I thought as you do, where
is God or who is he and especially where is he when I really needed him (I
belive personal situations play a big part in our lives). Cutting to the
chase and just to keep this short and sweet in answer to your confirmation
that God does not exist, I ask you to spare a moment and look around you
and then you will realise God does exist. We simply ignore him due to our
own ignorance, he will wait patiently until you need him.

I thought as you did but it took me a couple of life experiences to
realise without God all the things around us would not be possible.

I am just a friend, so please don't hate me Smiling

Rickki 

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I have hear this

I have hear this proposition expressed before. As seen, it relies on vague and meaningless statements that cannot be articulated and are usually incoherent. It is mockingly called the "look into the winds" arguments, and the mocking is not undeserved, given that it is woeful attempt at articulation of an idea. For one, it is not an argument. an argument is supposed to begin with a set of propositions, or premises, and link them to a logical set of beliefs, or conclusions. There is no such process going on here. It is most accurate to describe it as "a meaningless non sequitur". They (these arguments/propositions) are usually offered by the weak-willed who do not have the capacity to come up with a proper argument. It is a sign of idiocy on part of those who employ them, as well as being an indicator that the person using it has nothing to offer and is a dullard.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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Go into an active cow

Go into an active cow pasture.

Look around you - cow manure exists.

Should you start worshiping that now? 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote: Go into an

jcgadfly wrote:

Go into an active cow pasture.

Look around you - cow manure exists.

Should you start worshiping that now?

 

By his version of science and logic, all one would need to do would be to look at their keyboard, the cow manure is right there.  It's everywhere. Eye-wink 

- Brian Sapient


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Ok so I went outside and

Ok so I went outside and looked around...here is what I saw...maybe someone can correct me here, Snow...lots of it, I know that snow is caused by water drops freezing and then coming down to the earth as snowflakes (this is a natural phenomena in these parts of the world), a bunch of houses and a school.....these were built by men (I know for sure the school was because I saw the construction crew building it) a few cars, again manufactured in a plant, ford, chev, volkswagon and a Honda. I saw trees and shrubs, again natural plants of this planet, and more specifically this part of the world, they are evergreens and I don't know what the shurb is called but I know it's worth an arm and a leg to buy it. A blue sky and the sun, now these is because molecules in the atmosphere scatter blue light from the sun, and the sun well again...is natural phenomena of this universe, which I do not wish to bother again how sun's are formed.

    So.....where is the evidence for this god, specifically your god? 


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

 

From: mario_rom_555@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 1:13 AM

Ricki sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

I just came across an ad and stumbled on your website out of curiosity more
than anything. I come from a Christian Background and for a time mainly due
to personal circumstances and my own ignorance, I thought as you do, where
is God or who is he and especially where is he when I really needed him (I
belive personal situations play a big part in our lives). Cutting to the
chase and just to keep this short and sweet in answer to your confirmation
that God does not exist, I ask you to spare a moment and look around you
and then you will realise God does exist. We simply ignore him due to our
own ignorance, he will wait patiently until you need him.

I thought as you did but it took me a couple of life experiences to
realise without God all the things around us would not be possible.

I am just a friend, so please don't hate me Smiling

Rickki

ah, once again nature and human ingenuity get snubbed in the end credits. 

www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens


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I looked outside and

I looked outside and saw:

1. Buildings built by construction crews.

2. Trees and grass, which is evidence of seeds from... more trees and grass.   

3.  Cars build by machines and people.  

4. The blue sky, caused by how light passes through our atmosphere.

5. Everything's lit... coming from the sun.  Look through the hubble galleries, we've seen how stars are formed.  (Hint: there's no bearded man in the photos.  maybe you mistakening giant gas clouds for god?) 

I give up, nothing I've seen out my window requires a supernatural being.  Could you give us better directions? 

 


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Quote: We simply ignore him

Quote:
We simply ignore him due to our
own ignorance, he will wait patiently until you need him.

Are you reading the same holy book I am? Seems to me anyone who rejects the Abrahamic god(incert label here|) gets squashed by his cheerleaders and burned in hell for eternity for not kissing his ass. 

We dont ignore him because of our ignorance, we as atheists reject the absurd hocus pokus claims because they are fiction invented by humans.

Do you "ignore" Vishnu because of your "ignorance|"? Or do you reject the claim because it is absurd?

Do you ignore "Thor" because of your ignorance? Or, do you reject the claim rightfully because Thor doesnt make lighting, but rather positive and negitive charges in the atmosphere? 

Why are you so desperate to let a work of fiction rule you? If you think that it is absurd that people believe in the absurdity of getting 72 virgins in a fictional afterlife......If you think it is absurd to claim that throwing a virgin in a volcano will make the volcano less agrey, what makes you think I would buy the absurdity  of a bodyless being knocking up a girl without a penis or sperm?

God doesnt wait patiently or impatiently for anything anymore than Micky Mouse or Superman or Isis does. You defend an absurd claim, and you can be as patient as you want, but absurd is absurd and fiction is fiction. I am sorry you cant face reality, but that is your fault, not mine. I have outgrown Santa for adults. I hope for your sake you do as well. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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   Poor fella;  Looking

   Poor fella;  Looking into the mirror is indeed scary, but with courage and practice you can actually learn to laugh.

Please Google "Condemned to be Free", yeah reality can feel very lonely. So sorry god of abe ain't.

Let's hold hands with Carl Sagan and tell no more lies .... http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=carl+sagan&hl=en&sitesearch=


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stuntgibbon wrote: I

stuntgibbon wrote:

I looked outside and saw:

1. Buildings built by construction crews.

2. Trees and grass, which is evidence of seeds from... more trees and grass.

3. Cars build by machines and people.

4. The blue sky, caused by how light passes through our atmosphere.

5. Everything's lit... coming from the sun. Look through the hubble galleries, we've seen how stars are formed. (Hint: there's no bearded man in the photos. maybe you mistakening giant gas clouds for god?)

I give up, nothing I've seen out my window requires a supernatural being. Could you give us better directions?

You have it wrong. That's not how people "experience God" from the natural world. It makes intuitional sense to think that such complex, beautiful things derive from an equally beautiful, complex thing like God. I have to say that the existence of God makes more sense than a naturalistic explanation for anything.

The only problem with that is that God is not supported by evidence or logic, and science does not submit to intuition or "common sense". Making God nothing but an unnecessary abstraction.

Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.


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"Look around you" I do. But

"Look around you"

I do. But unlike you I dont get warm fuzzy feelings when I think about how cockroaches have been around longer than humans or that they will outsurvive us. I dont get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that eagles have better eyesight than humans.

I see nature, not superstition. If it stands to reason that Thor did not make lightning, and that we know that lighting is caused by positive and negitive charges in the atmosphere, what makes you think I am going to buy some story about a ghost knocking up a girl or a zombie god surviving rigor mortis after 3 days?

Yes I do look around me. And I dont need Superman vs Kriptonite stories of hocus pokus to explain life. 

Do you really think that there are magical foes, one a bearded man in a white robe vs a man with a pitchfork messing around with the neurons in your brain? 

Not a suprise that you believe it, anymore than it is a suprise that Tom Cruise popularized a religion that started by the insane writings of a science fiction writer.

PT Barnum got it right, "There is a sucker born every minute". 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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the 'you can't see the

the 'you can't see the wind' argument it a pet peeve of mind.

sure you can't see the wind, but climb to the top of a mountain and strip down to nothing but socks  -- you'll freeze your ass off.

birds didn't see that pane of glass there either but when they fly straight from the tree to your living room -- bam! 

 


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Brian37 wrote: "Look around

Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
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Look at the natural world

Look at the natural world for evidence of God ?

Let's see, I observe tsunamis that claim the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in a single day, ....I observe new forms of tuberculosis that are resistant to antibiotics,.... I read in the obituaries of young children whose lives were cut short by various forms of cancer for which their is still no cure, ....I recently read of flesh eating bacteria ( ie, necrotizing fasciitus ) .... children born with Downs Syndrome, ....people who suffer the slow agonizing death of Lou Gherig's Disease which produces muscle deterioration, paralysis and death..all the while leaving the mind completely functional.

I see street people whose potential for being productive happy citizens was robbed from them because many of them were born with a genetic predisposition to develop schizophrenia and other serious forms of mental illnesses.

I see predation in nature in which prey animals are usually the very young, even newborn, because predators choose victims that are the easiest to kill. Heck, in nature there are even flesh eating
plants.

Yes, nature is very good evidence for the existence of God as they are both examples of mindless and destructive forces, completely without mercy and oblivious to the suffering of mankind.

 


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Look at the natural world for evidence of God ?

[A list of awful things in the nature here]

Yes, nature is very good evidence for the existence of God as they are both examples of mindless and destructive forces, completely without mercy and oblivious to the suffering of mankind.

For someone who has never pondered the existence of God, intuitionally, seeing such suffering doesn't really point to anything. It just means that there are bad things, but there also are good things. The idea that the world has more good than bad is born because of the illusion that the people themselves don't have to deal with suffering every day. It's complete, mindless ignorance.

For someone who believes in God, thinking about the existence of evil and suffering feels bad, it feels terrible. Giving up God would mean to give up the only thing they feel is good and beautiful. So the only option is to submit to ignorance, and create a strange rationalisation to explain suffering along the existence of God.

For an Atheist, the existence of suffering is proof that there i no God. A good God wouldn't create a world of suffering for his creation to live in. I think this is the most logical conclusion.

Trust and believe in no god, but trust and believe in yourself.


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I think, Rickki's right.

I think, Rickki's right. It's a pity he doesn't say it clearly enough to pass through a blind faith that something is "natural". What is natural? If I build a house, and a child borns in there, the house will be natural for the child, though it didn't stand there a year ago.
You mean that something natural is non-causal? Everything is causal. Even causes have their causes. And where's the primordial cause?

Theists says, that God exist, because world is good, or something like that.
Atheists says, that God doesn't exist, because world is bad, or something like that.
But there's only one certain fact - the world is.
Look around you! All these things you see consists of atoms. They were not made by anything or anyone, no construction worker had ever made anything, everything just had been transformed. These particles of matter were created long ago and somehow, they ended up in a shape of your body, participating in reactions to form the world as you know it.

We know that in the beginning, there was a point in about a size of proton, which probably wasn't quite a comfortable state for a matter, because it exploded into such a big universe. Who pushed it all into such a small point?
If you keep your step even just with a popular science, you know a fact, that sub-atomary particles are unpredictable. They can just disappear from our universe, or appear, and yet, they SOMEHOW form together all things we can touch. If this is true, then all matter, that our known universe consists of, is re-created every single second. Well, this gives really new meaning to the question 'where it all came from?' Where it all is coming every moment?
No end with that, the speed of expansion of our universe doesn't decrease, it still gets faster, some force pulls the matter apart.
We still don't know, what the energy, gravity, matter and many other things REALLY are, we just watch what they do, but we have no idea why.
Let me give an example - a matter is not atoms, the atoms consists of e-, p+, and n's. But they consists of quarks. Is the world made of quarks? Nope, the quarks can be split too. And the results of it as well. In the end, these particles just disappears in vacuum, in nothing, and yet everything (vacuum is extremely filled with energy, whatever it is). Only 5% of the universe is a matter and energy as we know it. Remaining 95% is unknown, scientists calls it "dark matter and energy", but not because it's black, just so far, impossible to find.
In this world, the only logical state of mind is a constant awe. If you do think you know or understand something, you actually don't.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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  Thanks  Luminon/Buddha

  Thanks  Luminon/Buddha rising, and welcome to RRS.


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I look around and see child

I look around and see child abuse and molestation, rape, murder, war over religious differences, war for oil, a pious little bastard lying to the citizens of the country he leads (or is destroying) about everything so the rich can get richer and the poor can get poorer (the rich gotta have a service class, after all), famine, pestilence, torture, natural catastophries of huge proportions, the human race destroying the planet out of ignorance and greed.  If this is god's works then he can take and shove it right up his pious ass.  And if you believe that shit....

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You can see a lot of things

You can see a lot of things if you look around. A lot of people before me have made good points, so I won't repeat.

Looking around I am amazed at how clever humans are that we now understand so much, and amazed at how ignorant the majority of humans are that they still let superstitions rule their lives.

 "he will wait patiently until you need him": My uncle was one of the most religious and nice people that I have known. He was struck down with an inopperable brain tumour (in church ironically enough). He prayed and waited patiently for God, he definately needed him, then he died.

Zen-atheist wielding Occam's katana.

Jesus said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51


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People have so-called free

People have so-called free will. They always do what they think is best. You must keep in mind, that our bodies are basically animal. Our senses are directly connected to our back brain, this is why it reacts much faster than our civilized intellect (the big front brain) and gains control over body. Every time anyone is in stress, there is produced an adrenaline and most of blood flows away from our front brain, so we stop thinking and start the ancient scheme - run or fight. Even if we have a spirit, this spirit anyway must operate through this body, so there's always an inner conflict, and this conflict causes wars and violence, but is also our guarantee of hope, that once the matter and spirit will merge together in harmony...well, there's something about doing this literally, on sub-atomary level, but these are just technical details and they work automatically. The most important is to work on it, to do something, instead of chatting about it on the internetSmiling

Most of spiritual development is about gaining a control over this unfortunate shortcut in our brains, to take a control of the process before our animal heritage can. Because modern issues can never be solved by fighting or running. You can't defeat yourself and you can't run away from your shadow. Of course I don't wish anyone to believe in biblic idea of Old-testament God, it's a contradictional and absurd mix of several different things and beings, spiced up by a lot of misunderstanding and a bit of uncorrect translation from sumerian language, packed in solid, bulletproof faith. It would have to be made clear, which god is who and what exactly, before anyone reasonable can take it seriously. Some of biblic people who were in contact with "god", described what they saw and how they could. They described rather a hi-tech entity worshipped by desert tribes, than an intelligent being behind the creation of the vast universe.

You see a lot of bad things, but there is also a rise in people's good will, as an appropriate reaction, it's necessary to see both these sides of situation. This reaction comes from ordinary people, who will together form a greater force than politics, armies, international corporations, or global market. This is a great revolution and as such, is quite violent, when old structures try to hold in their places, though they won't be able to exist in new circumstances. This is no reason to complain, but to see the good side and to help. There's a lot of technical details in this process, they usually don't give much sense to a person who isn't deeply interested in it, but they're not necessary to know. The knowledge of technical details is like the joke, "You don't have to be insane to work here, but sure it helps." People can have their good life paths without an additional ideology (this is what I like on atheism).

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

"I just came across an ad and stumbled on your website out of curiosity more
than anything."

- Are you trying to convince us, or yourself?

RationalResponseSquad wrote:

I ask you to spare a moment and look around you and then you will realise God does exist. We simply ignore him due to our own ignorance, he will wait patiently until you need him. I thought as you did but it took me a couple of life experiences to realise without God all the things around us would not be possible.

- Thats so great, because all the years I was looking around before I must not have really been doing that.  I'll let you know when I see God and then you tell me when you here from the Great Ju-Ju Monster from Mt. Jackoff, I bet we will tie.

Maybe if everyone could just have some life experiences to let them figure out reality!  Thats the answer everyone!  Just HAVE life experiences, and then there will be God!

The whole idea that there is a God just waiting like fucking Hulk Hogan with his hand cupped to his ear, holding out for the crowd to cheer to him enough so he can leg drop sin is sooooo last dispensation.  Get a grip.

So no I wont hate you.  Atheists dont hate the christian, we hate the ignorance.

HisFattness 

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -Christopher Hitchens


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I have a feeling that I will

I have a feeling that I will need to resist the urge to bang my head against the monitor a lot. To me, the fact God has remained aloof and invisible is proof there is no God. If my kids had never seen me and all I left to prove I existed was a vague and contradictory book and some spacey ideas that could be interpreted a million ways by a million people, I would prove myself to be a terrible father.

 

I spent half my life praying and doing all the "right" things. It got me guilt, pressure to be perfect and I lost all track of science. You can't really study science objectively with a deity on your back.


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I don't hate you as a rule.

I don't hate you as a rule. I just don't give two fucks as to your personal delusions.

Your life experiences mean little to me, unless it drives you to try and force your views on others. That's when the hate kicks in. Even then, it's not so much hate, as it is trying to keep you in check. If you can't keep yourself in line, we'll be more than happy to do it for you.