Good logic or bad logic in this post? Help with logical fallacies.
I'm having a debate with a theist friend from another forum. I asked him how someone, who is now in the highest place in Heaven ruling over the Heavens and the Earth, can be called a "victim" (I even said I wouldn't mind being tortured and dead for a few days if I knew I was going to the best place ever for eternity after that)...
I also asked if God is all-powerful, why did he have to do the whole procedure - "to save humans from Himself, He used Himself to impregnate Mary so she can give birth to Himself. When He was baptised, He used Himself to point out Himself as His beloved son. In the end, He sacrifised Himself to Himself so He can save humans from Himself", if he could've produced the exact same effect on people by snapping his fingers (if he's all-powerful, he should be able to do that, right?).
He also said "My God is no skydaddy, some celestial Santa Claus. My God is a scary God, mighty and terrifying, but also good. And there's no kidding with him". So I said that definition describes a TYRANT better than a benevolent God.
I also accused him of having poor logical skills, so when he responded with this post, he also asked if he's being logical (in a post before he said that his posts are logical, because God is logical - that has to bring a smile to anyone's face). - Here is where you come in. I want you to expose his "logic" in this post below. To me his logic seems as one of a 14 year old and I already started writing a reply to him, but I saw some of you guys know all logical fallacies by name, that would help me to illustrate some things to him better. THANKS!
PS: This is a translation, so expect some linguistic mistakes:
"A" cannot be "notA" at the same time in the same context.
So, a car cannot be an ameba at the same time in the same context, otherwise our communication would have no meaning.
What does that have to do with God? You said that if he's all-powerful, or if he's all-loving, he could (or would have to) simply snap his fingers and everyone would be forgiven. Of course those things don't happen anywhere. And when they do happen, we get angry at the injustice. Because of that, for God to forgive everyone, he wouldn't be just - if he didn't punish someone.
That's the catch. Because God is not just all-loving, but also perfect justice, He forgave us, but someone had to pay instead of us. Maybe this helps as an illustration... One day, during play and running around the house your kid runs into a table and brakes a vase. Of course you'll forgive him, right? But someone still has to pay for the vase.
Beacuse God is perfect love and perfect justice, he couldn't "simply" forgive everyone, but someone had to pay for the "damage". The Bible says that the "punishment for sin is death" (Rom 6,23), and that "everyone sinned" (Rom 3,23) - by that, we all deserve death.
That's why God, in his love, to spare us, sent his Son to die instead of us, to take the punishment for us. That's what Rom 5,7,8 says:Quote:Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Why did God have to take the long way and sacrifice his Son etc., instead of simply snapping his fingers and making everything right? That's an interesting question. God didn't want to create robots, but creatures with free will. Even though he knew that it will make many reject him, he decided to do that. Why? Well, imagine this situation: you meet a great girl and call her over to watch a movie. She has no idea, that the movie is actually made to send subconcious message that say "Your friend is great. He's the best. You love him with all your heart. You can't wait to become his wife". And at the end she throws herself in your arms and says: "I love you with all my heart. When will we get married?"
I know there are many sick people who would love to have such a video, but I believe that it would leave them empty at the end, because the women wouldn't really love them, they would be manipulated to love them! That's why God didn't want to create robots, but people who will freely love him.
This freedom lead to problems, because people decided to do evil and reject God (Rom 1,18 and forward), so God had to intervene to save them. He knew from the beginning that people would reject him, yet he didn't leave them, but gave his only Son to take the punishment for them.
That's what says John 3,16:Quote:For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
Let's go back to the beginning. Because God is perfect love and perfect justice, he couldn't "simply" forgive people, someone had to "pay" for it. Not to punish the people, He took ALL the sins of the world (if someone thinks that's easy as LovE-RicH thinks, and going to hell after that, than we can really kiss logic goodbye). Because God is also omniscient, he knew that if he created humans with free will, they will sin, so he knew that he will have to save them.
But, to show you that our God is not a tyrant, He doesn't force anyone to believe in Him. He gives us the choice. That eternal life and forgivness he gives as a GIFT, that's not something you can earn (Ephesians 2,8-9).
If you don't believe, you earn what you deserve, he didn't make you do it.
Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you, and I know you don't want to believe it, but no matter if you believe it or not, that's the truth. If it's not, then neither is sin, nor justice, nor love, but they are just concepts thought of by man and which don't mean anything.
If you don't agree with that, then it's a matter of your lack of philosophy.
Oh yes, tell me above all, are any of my answers I offered logical (you don't have to believe in them, just tell me if they're logical). Thanks.