The cancer lady. [locked]
Was it just me or was that lady in the audience who kept pushing Kirk to answer her question a complete moron? He was trying to answer her, and she kept interrupting him and accusing him of avoiding the question which he wasn't doing. What a retard. Why did God allow cancer? The answer to that question is the same answer to why God allows any and all suffering to befall us. And Kirk was trying to answer that broader question, when he kept being very rudely interrupted. God didn't create suffering. He didn't create cancer. He created people with free will, and those people's decisions have caused all the evil in the world, including cancer.
The bible says that the world itself was condemned because of man's sin.
Granted that was a Christian-biblical answer to the question, but that is what was being asked. That question was being asked assuming God was real and Christianity was real. If that is true, then the bible must be the source of the answer to that question.
One angel originally created evil. Then one man recreated it. Evil is nothing more than disobedience to God. For disobedience to God to exist there must be some created thing with the ability to choose whether or not to obey God. That is why sin did not exist prior to the creation of angels. God did not make the angel sin, nor did he make the man sin. He only told them what to do and gave them the free will to obey or not. They chose to not obey. They have suffered the consequences.
That just irked me a little. And then I think I saw somewhere on this website bragging about the fact that Kirk couldn't even answer an audience member's question. Please.....Maybe if she would've shut up long enough for him to answer he could have.
"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18
Why?
Because you are not a bunch of rational free-thinkers. You are believing what you are told to believe.
Did you just say you hope god doesn't exist?
I was being sarcastic.
Pascal's wager does not work. Claiming to believe in God doesn't work. You must actually beleive in God, and more specifically in Christ. You can't fake faith. You may fool some people, but you won't fool God. So there is not a chance of "playing it safe" just in case this whole God thing turns out to be right. You either believe it 100% or not at all. There is no middle-ground.
I said I was done, and I'm done. I leave you with these parting words.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
You will either take on God's righteousness by faith (Rom 3:22) or you will be judged according to your own righteousness (Rev 20:12). The later will not bode well for you. Not believing in reality does not make it any less real. And when you get there, you won't be able to say no one told you. I just told you, and I'm sure you've heard it before.
But if at any point you decide to give the gospel a hearing, it will still be there. Hopefully it will not be too late. But if so, you don't believe in Hell anyway, so what have you got to worry about? Hell is real, whether you believe in it or not. God is real whether you believe in Him or not.
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;Rom 10:10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 10:11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
But He did not force you to sin, therefore He cannot force you to repent. It's your choice. God didn't condemn anyone. They condemned themselves. And they have the option to have that condemnation removed, and all it takes is to humble yourself. Sadly, that is something many people just won't do. Their arrogance will cost them dearly.
Mods, please do not modify or edit this post. Delete it entirely if you must, but please don't edit it. I could care less if I get labeled a troll and banned, I'm done here anyway. This is my last post.
"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18
If we choose to not do evil, then yes, that retains free will but no one goes to Hell. But we won't choose that. History has proven it. It's not a single choice. It is a lifetime of choices between good and evil. We may choose correctly on some, but no one has ever chosen correctly on all of them, save Christ. The only way we could do that as pure humans is if God made us do it, and that would prove nothing to Satan. When we choose righteousness, that convicts Satan. If we were forced, it would prove nothing. And that is the purpose why we are here, as witnesses for the prosecution in the appeal trial of Satan.
"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18
I don't follow your analogy.
No one said that Adam and Eve introduced the concept of sin. They may have introduced it to humanity, since they were the first humans. But not the world. Satan had sinned way before they were ever created.
"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18
Musicdude has already denied logic, so I doubt your point will mean anything to him.
www.andyhanson.net
You didn't have to say anything about Adam and Eve, musicdude. Paul did (Romans 5:12)
This is very much an ad hoc rationalization that does not even go to the problem. The problem as presented has nothing to do with what we do choose but that it is possible for us to retain freewill and not choose evil. That we do choose evil does not remove the responsibility from a creator, if there is one, when it is possible for us to retain freewill without choosing to do evil.
This is about human freewill and the Christian's god being responsible, if he were to exist, for the existence of evil. Satan has nothing to do with it unless you are proposing that the only reason evil exists is as a means to convict Satan in which case human beings are nothing but pawns in some godly chess game and the god could not be said to be loving in any way that we might understand the term.
No one is saying anything about being forced. I am not forced to not commit murder. I do not because I freely choose not to. In the same way every being in your created existence could be created with the ability to choose evil but not the desire to do so. That they are not leaves the creator solely responsible for the fact that evil is done.
“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins
Do you think that is contributing anything at all to this discussion by making little snide comments like that? If so, what?
"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18
I really am enjoying this conversation, but it's time to leave work now, and I have a four day weekend this week, so I gotta run. I'll pick it back up on Monday.
Later people.
"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18
No. By "better" I did not mean "insanely arrogant". Do you think I'm speaking with an accent or something?
What do you mean IF it is true? If god you speak of exists, it must be true -- until you argue otherwise. The only alternative is that the god you speak of does not exist.
I think you're simply quibbling now on my choice of words, although you know very well what I'm saying. I only used "imperfect" since you previously said that god created us "perfect". To adopt your new terminology: god could have created us in whatever way desired (omnipotence), knew we would disobey when created such a way (omnisciene), decided that disobedience should warrant condemnation -- and went ahead and created us anyway; thus god is the primary cause of said disobedience.
but...once again...god knew we would choose to disobey. god could have created us differently, or not created us altogether.
OR... and this is the simple, elegant explanation - god just doesn't exist.
Of course not. The purpose was to have a heaven with 144,000 happy, smiling people holding hands, and tons of tormented wailing people suffering for all eternity in hell. A much nobler purpose by all accounts.
Does anybody?
You're not convinced, or you don't want to be convinced? If there's a flaw in my statement, point it out please. Otherwise, be convinced.
It means: Flawed, imperfect being that I am, I have a better sense of fairness and justice than god does.
Serve a tyrant who creates people just to torture them? I'd choose hell on general principle.
Nothing horrible about respecting your fellow man. The foregoing discussion should indicate that I respect people more than god does. I don't wish eternal suffering on anyone -- I certainly wouldn't create someone if I knew in advance they would end up suffering eternally.
As far as the bible: Yes, it really is that horrible.
Correct. A non-existent god beats an unfair, unjust god any day of the week (including the sabbath).
There are no theists on operating tables.
But you HAVE denied logic.
You have admitted:
God knows everything (future included)
God CHOSE to create man, knowing man would do evil
And then you absolve God of all responsibility of evil.
That my friend, is a text book case of a logical contradiction, yt you hold to it. Either you are denying logic, or you lack the capacity to understand logic. Can't think of a third option here...
www.andyhanson.net
You call that woman crazy when you spout delusional stupidity like this? What a moron. How the hell can an omniscient and omnipotent being have a cost to himself? You belong in grade school.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Again, this is a Mad World...
This is what happens when a religion tries to hold too many balls up at the same time. Since Christianity and all the other mainstream religions chose to include everything in their dogma, this is what they get.
Residential Swedish Moth
I have reconsidered my decision to post here.
For your sakes I hope you are all right, and this whole God thing is just a man-made psychological crutch and not reality. Because if I am wrong, I've lived a great life and have no regrets. If you're wrong, woe be unto you. So, like I said, I hope you're right for your sake. You'd better be damn sure.
See you rational thinkers later. Keep on being open-minded (those of you who actually have been open-minded.)
"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1Cor 1:18
Why?
Did you just say you hope god doesn't exist?
There are no theists on operating tables.