Just pissing in the wind!

Lux
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Just pissing in the wind!

It seems that most atheists are atheists because of bad experiences. It seems less to do with rationality or reason, which I think is a cop-out. I read most of what the leaders of this here outfit wrote, and it seems they are just sick of religion in general. A lot has to do with Judgemental Chrisitans. Having spent half my life in Chicago and half in South Carolina, I see a huge difference in Christian mentality. Also, it isn't too easy being Catholic in South Carolina either, so on that note I understand where you all are coming from. Having said that, the difference is I Continue to believe in God because I have done alot of searches for meaning in life, and to me, this is the only thing that makes sense. I could have gone the other way like you guys did, but I found reason to keep my faith. I think a belief in God rests on a razors edge. But trust in general rests on a razors edge. We are fragile as humans and our emotions and beliefs reflect that. I can come across as a pompus asshole, so I apologize for that in light of my previous posts. Eye-wink

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." -CS Lewis


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BTW, I read that Rook was

BTW, I read that Rook was going to be a priest? believe me I know how demanding it is to grow up Catholic. I went through a period of time when I was going through my teen years that I hated going to mass and I hated everything about Christianity. I used to piss my mom off by wearing Danzig and Misfits t-shirts to mass, and I'm talking about the shirt with Glenn Danzig's face in side an up-side down cross. But then, as oppisite of you guys, as I got older I grew back into my faith in God. In fact, I don't really think it ever left me, for a while I just refused to see it.

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." -CS Lewis


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Hello Lux, Have you read

Hello Lux,

Have you read the introductions of most of the members of this site?  I cannot speak for all, but as for me I certainly did not have a bad experience which brought me to atheism.  Actually, my life has always been more positive than negative.  I was raised christian but so much of it never made sense to me.  Honestly, I could not care less about religion up to the point that it infringes on my life in the form of laws being made based on religious reasoning.  Yes, it annoys me that so much of our culture revolves around theism but I do not deny anyone's right to believe whatever they want.

 In my opinion, you have made a very vast and incorrect generalization about atheists.  I would not do the same to theists.  Some theists have stronger beliefs than others - so what?  Some atheists are more concerned about the effects of theism than others - so what?

The reason that I am here is to discuss issues and listen to different viewpoints in order to increase my understanding and knowledge so that I can make better informed decisions about issues that affect me.  I am glad you are here because you represent yet another voice to the mix. 


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thanks for the reply. I'm

thanks for the reply. I'm not trying to over-generalize. But from what I've read so far, it seems to be the case. I know this isn't the case for all of you. I thought I'd throw a little of my history into the mix

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." -CS Lewis


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Lux, you've been listening

Lux, you've been listening to preachers again, haven't you...

In my entire life, I've known maybe one person who left religion because of a bad experience.  Almost all of the atheists I know either left the church because they thought their way out, or simply grew up in a non-religious family and never got sucked in to begin with.

In fact, Lux, I've known lots of people who left the church because of bad experiences, but do you know where they went?  To another religion.

I admit that all of this is simply anecdotal evidence, but I think you'll find that if you actually asked atheists why they are atheists (instead of trusting what the theists say about it) you'd find that you're quite misinformed.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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so are you saying that those

so are you saying that those who have chosen to stay in the Chruch or reatain thier faith, are not thinkers? To me you're saying that athiests leave the church becuase they become "smart". This really isn't a fair statement either. I agree that not all atheists have bad experiences, but that has been MY experience with atheists.

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." -CS Lewis


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so are you saying that those

{Mod edit - double post}


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Lux wrote: thanks for the

Lux wrote:
thanks for the reply. I'm not trying to over-generalize. But from what I've read so far, it seems to be the case. I know this isn't the case for all of you. I thought I'd throw a little of my history into the mix

Understood and I am glad you did.  It helps knowing someone's background a little since religious beliefs cover a pretty wide range.

As far as my standpoint goes, I had had doubts for as long as I could remember.  I looked for answers and researched other beliefs, but nothing answered my questions.  As an adult I pretty much shelved god to the back of my mind as something I would never understand but atheism was not something I considered because of the negative connotations attached to it.  After being confronted by a very good friend about it, I examined my beliefs more closely and...here I am.  It wasn't an earth-shattering moment or anything, just an acceptance of what I had always known but denied. 

There are threads here that deal with politics and activism and I, for one, would like to see your input on any that catch your interest. 


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Actually, let me be

Actually, let me be clearer...

In general, I think it's safe to say that most of the atheists here would regard being religious as a "bad experience" in their life, but I think it's disengenuous to say that they left because of a bad experience.

Regarding aging and religious tendencies, it is true that a lot of people become more religious as they age. It's also true that people tend to become more Republican as they age, and I'm not sure you could call that a benefit at this time in history... But I get what you're saying.

And on a completely unrelated point, I'm thinking that I might use your sig quote as the basis of a blog soon. It's a deceptively seductive idea, and I can understand why it's appealing. Keep your eyes open.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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I grew up secular, so I

I grew up secular, so I didn't have any bad religious experiences.  It was a non-issue. 

The issue I do have with religion is that it is effecting our laws.  Other than that, I don't care what you believe.

If god takes life he's an indian giver


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Quote: so are you saying

Quote:
so are you saying that those who have chosen to stay in the Chruch or reatain thier faith, are not thinkers?

Not exactly.

Many very intelligent people stay in church. They just don't apply their critical thinking skills to one aspect of their life, namely religion.

There are also many non-intellectual reasons for staying in religion... peer pressure, family concerns, etc... I've known a great many church going intellectuals who, when cornered, would admit to a much more watered down deism than the dogma of their particular church.

Quote:
To me you're saying that athiests leave the church becuase they become "smart".

Well, to be more precise, I'd say that people who become atheists use their intelligence in a brave way, but yes, atheists do tend to be pretty smart folks, on the whole.

Quote:
This really isn't a fair statement either.

Since I'm an atheist, you wouldn't expect me to be particularly worried about fairness, right? People are born with the intellect they have, and it's just genetics at work.

Quote:
I agree that not all atheists have bad experiences, but that has been MY experience with atheists.

Fair enough. I'm curious, how many atheists do you know, and where have you normally met them? I honestly have not known many theists who kept atheists as friends... I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything. I'm genuinely interested because your experience seems so different from everything I've ever seen.

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Actually, since today seems

Actually, since today seems to be "Afterthought Day" for me, I'll keep it going...

Atheism doesn't take all that much intelligence, so I'm not saying that you have to be smart to be an atheist.   What it takes is good critical thinking skills, and a certain amount of willingness to accept what is real even if it's not the most comforting thing to believe.

Good critical thinking skills often show up in very smart people, but there are lots of people who aren't the sharpest tacks in the box, but have plenty of "common sense" -- another way of saying "good critical thinking skills."

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Lux, these kids are the

JCE - I am glad to see you say that, I too feel and see the "banging the head against the wall" within this community.  The community here certainly does provide a good source of frustration, almost in the same sense a stubborn 12 year old does not want to do his homework, or a 8 year old wants to stay out past 11.  They are like little children, and you can see it clearly in their stubborn refusal of all things that arent their very own. 

 

Lux, these kids are the most adamently, militant atheist kids I have ever seen in my life. This isnt a matter of them listening to you, they wont listen to anything you say. I gave them the golden and obvious truth of the matter with contradicting their staple argument and they shunned me lol. They really are that adament to stick with idiotic ways, and theres nothing you can do about it. You too have your idiotic tendencies, such as if you believe the bible is the innerent infallible word of god, or that there is such a thing as an outside authority, but at least you know of god, which is much more then what I can say about these group of little children.

Unfortunately, 1400 years of oppression and this is the result - your religion oppressed the masses and this is the cultural by-product of their resistence. They are here because of the oppression the Christians created. tisk tisk.. both of you, you could solve your differences like some grown gentlement, but instead, you are so ardent to convict each other to "does god exist?" "Yes he does" "no he doesnt" "yes he does" back and forth.

hopefully some of you will grow up - we cant have idiots like this continuing to spread their word of hate - what are we teaching our children? That people are divided into two groups? That everybody can be judged by wether they believe in something as arguable as "god"?

You guys are resisting the oppression of the christian community, and combatting it with further segregation and reverse oppression - youre seeking harmony and balance in the wrong way, with a closed narrow mind. I say this, so long as "Does god exist" remains the staple argument, so long as you continue to seperate and segregate people by "atheist" vs "theist".... your levels of condescent towards others is absolutely repulsive and its also self destructive. but far be it for me to show you guys what is clearly obvious to an unleaning mind.

you guys think, believe, and see things the way that you do not because youre critical thinkers or free thinkers or broad minded, but because your mind is leaning to, the opposite direction a christian fanatics mind leans....

 

 

 

by the way, kids - almost all religions say "you have always believed, you were born believing", and all people reach a point in the religion where they realize that, much iun the same way you have experiences with atheistic beliefs. Christianity - Eyes of a child, Buddhism - Buddha-to-be, Born a buddha, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

but my my my it must be because you guys are all so much better then everybody else, far be it for you to do the research with an open mind, noo no no no no! you found your convictions, no need to remain inquisitive about life, you know the answer now lets go to war!


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Hambydammit wrote: Many

Hambydammit wrote:
Many very intelligent people stay in church. They just don't apply their critical thinking skills to one aspect of their life, namely religion.

How do you encourage this?  I have tried and it seems like it is a damn lot of work and requires a ton of time to the point that I feel like it is a form of brainwashing.  Even on this site, sometimes I just feel like I am banging my head against a wall!  


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Anbesol wrote: but my my

Anbesol wrote:

but my my my it must be because you guys are all so much better then everybody else, far be it for you to do the research with an open mind, noo no no no no! you found your convictions, no need to remain inquisitive about life, you know the answer now lets go to war!

Do you not see you are doing the very thing you are criticizing. You are accusing others of being close minded because they think differently and were not presuaded by your 'awe inspiring' message. I don't think many atheists here claim to know for sure, but rather they withholding belief until evidence is presented. You on the other hand are believing without evidence and when we disagree you accuse us of being close minded. 


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Quote: Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:
Hambydammit wrote:
Many very intelligent people stay in church. They just don't apply their critical thinking skills to one aspect of their life, namely religion.

How do you encourage this? I have tried and it seems like it is a damn lot of work and requires a ton of time to the point that I feel like it is a form of brainwashing. Even on this site, sometimes I just feel like I am banging my head against a wall!

That's a damn good question, jce. I only know of a couple of things that have a remote chance of succeeding, and the chance is admittedly remote.

The first is to show them that their compassion is misplaced. In other words, to demonstrate to them that what they think of as a "mostly good, harmless belief" actually causes great harm. If they see that their complicity does measurable harm in the world, they are more likely to examine their beliefs more critically.

(Another way to look at it: People are extremely unlikely to buck against the standard social structure unless they have a really good reason.)

The second way is simply repetition. My group of friends are almost all atheist, and the fact is, if you're a theist and hang out with us, you're going to hear lots of non-theist conversations about science, philosophy, culture, etc... To most theists, atheists are just this bogey-man story that the church spreads, you know? It's like homosexuals. It's been proven over and over that people who are militantly anti-gay are often painfully insulated. They've never been friends with a gay person. Once they have their first gay friend, they realize gays are just people. It's the same with atheists.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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BGH wrote: Anbesol

BGH wrote:
Anbesol wrote:

but my my my it must be because you guys are all so much better then everybody else, far be it for you to do the research with an open mind, noo no no no no! you found your convictions, no need to remain inquisitive about life, you know the answer now lets go to war!

Do you not see you are doing the very thing you are criticizing. You are accusing others of being close minded because they think differently and were not presuaded by your 'awe inspiring' message. I don't think many atheists here claim to know for sure, but rather they withholding belief until evidence is presented. You on the other hand are believing without evidence and when we disagree you accuse us of being close minded.

you group of self-centered retard did not even assess my conjecture, you just quickly refuted it with "well, i dont believe that", even though its VERY scientifically sound.  You have not even begun to look at what I said, for as what I said goes against your preconceived convictions, you sought first to be understood, then to understand others.  You guys really are idiots, and I call you idiots out of compassion for you, because youre causing your own suffering through your very own bondage of mind.  You live in bondage and you live in slavery, and you think you are - but you are not.  You have been nothing more then a poor conditioned little kid, only diving deeper and deeper into your own illusions the older and older you get.  When you see your self for what you really are, you will see the christians for what they really are, and everybody else for what they really are.  And you will find that just as you have YOUR conditionings, they have theirs...   Also, sometimes a sharp word is a kind word, I call you idiots in the hopes to shock and disturb your dumbasses and welcome you back to reality, where there is no convictions and no assertions and no negations, ther eis just understanding...  You cannot even begin to understand, so long as you think "does god exist" is any kind of a relavent argument.  When you realize how absurd a dumbass question that is, then you may begin to see, till then, you idiots will keep your anti-god rhetoric close to your heart, where you live in bondage of your own self-deceptive egocentric assertions.   


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Anbesol wrote: JCE - I am

Anbesol wrote:

JCE - I am glad to see you say that, I too feel and see the "banging the head against the wall" within this community. The community here certainly does provide a good source of frustration, almost in the same sense a stubborn 12 year old does not want to do his homework, or a 8 year old wants to stay out past 11. They are like little children, and you can see it clearly in their stubborn refusal of all things that arent their very own.

Because we don't accept what YOU say? I think most of us have had enough of being told what to think, thank you anyway. Sorry to burst your bubble, but most of us tried - and I mean TRIED - to believe. We spent years trying to swallow the bullshit fed to us and found ourselves gagging on the taste. Here I am free to disagree, ask questions and learn. The religious community encourages questions so long as the answer is accepted and never questioned again. Disagreement is generally frowned upon and learning...well that is only encouraged up to the extent that anything learned aligns with dogma.

 

Anbesol wrote:
Lux, these kids are the most adamently, militant atheist kids I have ever seen in my life.

Wow!! Thanks! At my age I am NEVER referred to as a kid. Not sure how old you are Mr. Anbesol but be careful making statements like this. Generalizations don't go over real well.

Anbesol wrote:
This isnt a matter of them listening to you, they wont listen to anything you say. I gave them the golden and obvious truth of the matter with contradicting their staple argument and they shunned me lol. They really are that adament to stick with idiotic ways, and theres nothing you can do about it. You too have your idiotic tendencies, such as if you believe the bible is the innerent infallible word of god, or that there is such a thing as an outside authority, but at least you know of god, which is much more then what I can say about these group of little children.

Do you hate everyone? Truly, sir, you are an asshole.

Anbesol wrote:
Unfortunately, 1400 years of oppression and this is the result - your religion oppressed the masses and this is the cultural by-product of their resistence. They are here because of the oppression the Christians created. tisk tisk.. both of you, you could solve your differences like some grown gentlement, but instead, you are so ardent to convict each other to "does god exist?" "Yes he does" "no he doesnt" "yes he does" back and forth.

Did you even read any of this thread or did you just post here to spew more garbage? In my opinion, Lux has started an open-minded thread and we were having a nice discussion until you showed up acting like a childish bully.

Anbesol wrote:
hopefully some of you will grow up - we cant have idiots like this continuing to spread their word of hate - what are we teaching our children? That people are divided into two groups? That everybody can be judged by wether they believe in something as arguable as "god"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Fuck you. I am teaching them to be rational thinkers.

Anbesol wrote:
by the way, kids - almost all religions say "you have always believed, you were born believing", and all people reach a point in the religion where they realize that, much iun the same way you have experiences with atheistic beliefs. Christianity - Eyes of a child, Buddhism - Buddha-to-be, Born a buddha, etc.

If that is true, then you were born believing in hate.

 

To be honest, I almost did not respond to this post because I know it will just encourage you to continue clogging up this thread with more crap but if you are so damn sure of yourself and your beliefs and feel that we are a hopeless group of idiots, then why do you stay? Are you hoping your guerrilla tactics will work? Is this what your faith has taught you?

I have been watching and reading your posts and so far the only thing you have managed to do is piss off a bunch of people and, for many, solidify a negative image of theists.  Way to "spread the good word".


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Anbesol wrote: you group of

Anbesol wrote:
you group of self-centered retard did not even assess my conjecture, you just quickly refuted it with "well, i dont believe that", even though its VERY scientifically sound. You have not even begun to look at what I said, for as what I said goes against your preconceived convictions, you sought first to be understood, then to understand others. You guys really are idiots, and I call you idiots out of compassion for you, because youre causing your own suffering through your very own bondage of mind. You live in bondage and you live in slavery, and you think you are - but you are not. You have been nothing more then a poor conditioned little kid, only diving deeper and deeper into your own illusions the older and older you get. When you see your self for what you really are, you will see the christians for what they really are, and everybody else for what they really are. And you will find that just as you have YOUR conditionings, they have theirs... Also, sometimes a sharp word is a kind word, I call you idiots in the hopes to shock and disturb your dumbasses and welcome you back to reality, where there is no convictions and no assertions and no negations, ther eis just understanding... You cannot even begin to understand, so long as you think "does god exist" is any kind of a relavent argument. When you realize how absurd a dumbass question that is, then you may begin to see, till then, you idiots will keep your anti-god rhetoric close to your heart, where you live in bondage of your own self-deceptive egocentric assertions.

Again, more "whaaa whaaa, my panties are in a twist because you disagree" or "whaaa whaaa, my proof is so solid only stupid retards(though when I cry like this I certainly am being childish) don't believe it". 

You are refusing to discuss because others disagree, rather you have resorted to ad hominems in almost every post over the last few days. Great way to get your point across... 


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Lux wrote: It seems that

Lux wrote:

It seems that most atheists are atheists because of bad experiences. It seems less to do with rationality or reason, which I think is a cop-out.

I've never really understood this viewpoint, when a theist promotes it or when an atheist states it.

 Here's why:

If someone believes that there is a supreme being that created the universe but has a bad experience in a church / religion they suddently stop believing in a supreme being? I doubt that.

Either they never believed in god in the first place and immediately stopped giving the idea any wieght once there was no longer a "need", or they stopped following blindly and began to look at theism on it's own merit. Once they were able to think more freely they discovered that the idea of god has no backing or logical feasability. 

I suspect that they never really believed in god in the first place and just stopped giving lip service once they had a "breakup" with the church. Though, I have known some that really did believe in god who just taught themselves out of it. Pretty rare, but it has happened. 


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jce wrote: To be honest, I

jce wrote:
To be honest, I almost did not respond to this post because I know it will just encourage you to continue clogging up this thread with more crap

Which is all it will do. I've been going back and forth with this guy and he's just getting more open about his hate mongering. Watch ... here he goes...  


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You're satisfied with fake

You're satisfied with fake answers. That's why you have faith.


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hate is love, suppressed by

hate is love, suppressed by the barriers and bondage of ego.

 

you are teaching them then? Have you told them that "does god exist?" is the argument that has been fought over for 5000 years? Have you let them know that in all that 5000 years demanding either god existing or not has led to war and famine? Have you let them know that nobody has ever been able to solidly answer the question, and that so long as you keep asking the question expecting an answer, you remain a slave to it?

 

Also - have you ever thought that maturity has very little to do with age? Often times, the older people get the more deluded they become, the deeper they dive into the shallow pit of their own ego, and the more circumnavigated their mind becomes and the more they justify their stupidity.

 

JCE - if you are teaching these kids, you arent doing a very good job. I repeat, "does god exist" will, always has been, always will be, and will constantly remain to be a dumbass question when looking for an answer. Socrates teaches you guys to shut the fuck up with your answers, and just pursue questions, but you are so convicted by your grand answer of the universe that you cant even see past your self. AGAIN, I dont give a flying fuck how old you are and it matters not how old I am, if you look at this question and demand you have an all-knowing answer, youre a fucking flaming idiot. If you truly think that your wormy little self-serving brains are capable of articulating the 5000 year old question in your apex of cognition, then you are fucking idiots. So long as you divide people into two people, theists and atheists, you are idiots.

 

and hey idiots - i never disagreed with you, the only things i disagree with is your dismissal of allr eligion as being the same.  you guys really are idiots. 

 

Hate is love, by the way, and one day you kids may come to realize this.  Hate is negatively charged love..... 


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I would be someone who did

I would be someone who did have a bad religious experience during childhood- not any one thing in particular, just the whole thing. I honestly believed I was going to die come armageddon, because I could not find it in me to love such a bastard of a god. It was hard to see the whole picture back then, being raised in it it's all I knew, but I knew that I'd rather have died than think of gays and women as less than equal. I thought that was disgusting.

Now I'm out of it I've gotten a much better view of every side of the argument and I see no reason to believe in God. I hate to see religion have any influence on politics and my daily life, but one of my main reasons for wanting it gone is to prevent other kids having to go through the same kind of shit I did. It sickens me to know of children being raised in their parents' religion- it's something that's forced on them. If they're adults and they choose it, that's fine. But the children don't have a say, and when they reach adulthood it's hard for them to shake off all the brainwashing.


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Anbesol wrote: hate is

Anbesol wrote:

hate is love, suppressed by the barriers and bondage of ego.

 

you are teaching them then? Have you told them that "does god exist?" is the argument that has been fought over for 5000 years? Have you let them know that in all that 5000 years demanding either god existing or not has led to war and famine? Have you let them know that nobody has ever been able to solidly answer the question, and that so long as you keep asking the question expecting an answer, you remain a slave to it?

 

Also - have you ever thought that maturity has very little to do with age? Often times, the older people get the more deluded they become, the deeper they dive into the shallow pit of their own ego, and the more circumnavigated their mind becomes and the more they justify their stupidity.

 

JCE - if you are teaching these kids, you arent doing a very good job. I repeat, "does god exist" will, always has been, always will be, and will constantly remain to be a dumbass question when looking for an answer. Socrates teaches you guys to shut the fuck up with your answers, and just pursue questions, but you are so convicted by your grand answer of the universe that you cant even see past your self. AGAIN, I dont give a flying fuck how old you are and it matters not how old I am, if you look at this question and demand you have an all-knowing answer, youre a fucking flaming idiot. If you truly think that your wormy little self-serving brains are capable of articulating the 5000 year old question in your apex of cognition, then you are fucking idiots. So long as you divide people into two people, theists and atheists, you are idiots.

 

and hey idiots - i never disagreed with you, the only things i disagree with is your dismissal of allr eligion as being the same. you guys really are idiots.

 

Hate is love, by the way, and one day you kids may come to realize this. Hate is negatively charged love.....

Wow, you must be REALLY full of love because you are spouting hate like a geyser just because we don't see god like you do.

No one here has claimed to have all the answers except you. Again, PROJECTION!!!

You are a FUCKING IDIOT if you are here to tell us how to think because you have the answers, BULLSHIT you have not presented any RELEVENT answers or questions. 

 


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I do not CARE how you see

I do not CARE how you see god for your self, I just want you to accept others for how THEY SEE god, which is NOT as absurd as you egocentric little kids like to believe.

 

I am very anguished byt his community because I KNOW the deep intent for the movement is rooted in good intentions, and that is to spread truth of the equality of man, but when you COUNTER CONDEMN others, you do not help bring about peace, you perpetuate WAR. I dont care how you see god, I care that you have some fucking respect for others for seeing god, and realize that not everybody has the same stupid perception of god as high-dogma christians.

 I do not have answers I had conjectures to solidify other thoughts and beliefs.  the only answer i have imposed to you to having is, that "Does God Exist", again, remaining your staple argument, is stupid and self-destructive.  ITs the question thats 5000 years old and you guys think youre so high and mighty and have reached such an apex of perfect intelligence that you finally figured it out with your high knowledge, now you show no respect for others who DO believ in it, because without even gtting to KNOW a person, you have judged them as idiots for believing in god, even if you rationalize it with your compartmentalization theory, you are still condemning them.

 

idiots.  I have only condemned your very own condemnation.  I am trying to reverse this outward condemnation you show towards others and show it to you..  but youre idiots, and you cannot see very well.     


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pariahjane wrote: I grew

pariahjane wrote:

I grew up secular, so I didn't have any bad religious experiences. It was a non-issue.

The issue I do have with religion is that it is effecting our laws. Other than that, I don't care what you believe.

 Same here. I grew up in what I would describe as a religiously indifferent household. I was for many years an ignorrant intuative Atheist. It's only after I grew up that I aqquired enough knowledge to call myself an informed atheist.

I agree pariahjane I don't care what anyone else believes as long as they don't try and push their theology on me.


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Lux wrote: But then, as

Lux wrote:
But then, as oppisite of you guys, as I got older I grew back into my faith in God. In fact, I don't really think it ever left me, for a while I just refused to see it.

This is interesting...how faithful do you see yourself now?  Do you agree with the bible in it's entirety?  Do you accept church doctrine without question?  If you have answered these questions already, I apologize but I have not seen the answers.


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Anbesol, you act like your

Anbesol, you act like your viewpoint is so ultimately superior to everyone elses that if anyone disagrees with you they are automatically an idiotic, close-minded idiot. The whole point of these boards are to debate, question, learn, and have intelligent conversations. Not just be sitting here, watch some guy come onto the forums, preach about how his viewpoint is so superior to everyone elses, and automatically agree with him and follow him to victory. No. We have the right to disagree with you. We have the right to try and refute you. We have the right to question you. Just as you have the right to do the same. What you don't have the right to do, is to come on here and attack people who disagree with you.

 

Now, on to the actual topic of the thread.  I was never raised in a religious home. And, I had always really just accepted that God existed because.. well that's what everyone believed and what everyone told me so it must be true right? Nah. Now that I look back, the idea that a God exists always seemed like a fairy tale to me. Not till I actually started questioning it and thinking about it for years and researching and doing all these things did I actually come to the conclusion that I didn't believe in God. What I think the difference between the Atheist's and the Theist's is that. Atheist's are curious. They question. They keep questioning. And they don't stop questioning. They think critically about things and they don't take anything face-value. They want evidence for what they are being taught and they want facts to back it up. Theist's, from what I've observed.. don't question. Or if they do, they are quick to accept. Theist's don't question as much as Atheist's, and I think that the questioning of Atheist's is what leads many people to become Atheist. Because, Theist's from what I've seen and heard about [ trying not to generalize ] don't critically question that much.

"Why would God send his only son to die an agonizing death to redeem an insignificant bit of carbon?"-Victor J. Stenger.


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Lux wrote:

Lux wrote:

It seems that most atheists are atheists because of bad experiences.

 

 

A variation on the "atheists hate Jesus" argument, eh?

 

No. Atheists don't believe in supernatural gods. Each has their own reason, but for better understanding I would ask you if you believe poseidon is a real supernatural being in charge of the ocean.

 

No you say?

 

Bingo. That is how we feel about your god.

 

 


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Lux wrote: It seems that

Lux wrote:
It seems that most atheists are atheists because of bad experiences. It seems less to do with rationality or reason, which I think is a cop-out. I read most of what the leaders of this here outfit wrote, and it seems they are just sick of religion in general. A lot has to do with Judgemental Chrisitans.

I grew up in a mild-moderately religious, but non-Christian household. And I've always been somewhat agnostic-atheist, so it wasn't a "bad experience" that led me to atheism.

A friend of mine had a rather bad experience with religion, which didn't lead him to atheism, but deism.


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Klarky wrote: pariahjane

Klarky wrote:
pariahjane wrote:

I grew up secular, so I didn't have any bad religious experiences. It was a non-issue.

The issue I do have with religion is that it is effecting our laws. Other than that, I don't care what you believe.

 Same here. I grew up in what I would describe as a religiously indifferent household. I was for many years an ignorrant intuative Atheist. It's only after I grew up that I aqquired enough knowledge to call myself an informed atheist.

I agree pariahjane I don't care what anyone else believes as long as they don't try and push their theology on me.

I felt the same way about calling myself an atheist.  It didn't occur to me for a very long time that I was one until I actually really started to research religion and god(s).

If god takes life he's an indian giver


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Quote: t seems that most

Quote:
t seems that most atheists are atheists because of bad experiences. It seems less to do with rationality or reason, which I think is a cop-out. I read most of what the leaders of this here outfit wrote, and it seems they are just sick of religion in general.

Yea, you got me dead to rights. One night Jesus crept into my bedroom when I was a kid and asked me if I wanted to play a game.

WTF are you talking about? Dont try to make us out to be emotional despots. It is about one thing and one thing only. EVIDENCE!

I guess Thor molested you as a kid so thats why you reject him?

You dont see bad in religion? That must mean you dont own a TV set. The 3 big kids on the block want to beat the crap out of each other. So forgive me if I am "sick" of people using religion to justify political gain and justify agression or self defence.

Dont these three ever consider that maybe, just maybe, they are doing something in the name of fiction?

Would you follow me if I told you Thor had the right to kill the inhabitants of a land and take it over as yours? 

Would you vote for a believer in Thor because he promised to give you lower taxes? People do that all the time, but somehow you got it right, so if people would just follow you, everything would be nice and cozey.

The problem isnt that people believe in anything I find to be false. That is human nature. The problem with the species is that they still have an Alpha Male mentality, not an Advise and Consent mutuall agreement goal.

If humanity is to not self distruct it is not based on atheism or theism. It is about finding universal tests that minimize harm and maximize benifit, while still maintaining a majority degree of individuality.

The problem with political and religious compitition is that it goes beyond debate which is where it should stay. Since that is the case, the best course I see is to seek common ground without expectation that the other should worship your position. 

Unless you like seeing Jews and Muslims in body bags all day. Unless you like seeing soldiers die every day. I am so sick of political and religious death when most of it could be handled with a good bitch fest and a beer afterword.

The reality is that no matter your political or religious or national origin, we all want the same thing. We all want love, we all want a means to make a living, and we all want to feel like we make a differance and what we do means something.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Anbesol wrote: if you look

Anbesol wrote:
if you look at this question and demand you have an all-knowing answer, youre a fucking flaming idiot...your wormy little self-serving brains are capable of articulating the 5000 year old question in your apex of cognition, then you are fucking idiots... So long as you divide people into two people, theists and atheists, you are idiots... hey idiots...you guys really are idiots...you kids ..

Golly, thank goodness you chimed in. Otherwise we might have avoided being called idiots by you ... again.  


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I was going to write a

I was going to write a reasoned response then I saw who the topic creator was so instead I'll settle for this:

 

Y halo thar subjective comment LOL!1!!1!  

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.


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Brian37 wrote: Quote: t

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
t seems that most atheists are atheists because of bad experiences. It seems less to do with rationality or reason, which I think is a cop-out. I read most of what the leaders of this here outfit wrote, and it seems they are just sick of religion in general.

Yea, you got me dead to rights. One night Jesus crept into my bedroom when I was a kid and asked me if I wanted to play a game.

WTF are you talking about? Dont try to make us out to be emotional despots. It is about one thing and one thing only. EVIDENCE!

I guess Thor molested you as a kid so thats why you reject him?

You dont see bad in religion? That must mean you dont own a TV set. The 3 big kids on the block want to beat the crap out of each other. So forgive me if I am "sick" of people using religion to justify political gain and justify agression or self defence.

Dont these three ever consider that maybe, just maybe, they are doing something in the name of fiction?

Would you follow me if I told you Thor had the right to kill the inhabitants of a land and take it over as yours?

Would you vote for a believer in Thor because he promised to give you lower taxes? People do that all the time, but somehow you got it right, so if people would just follow you, everything would be nice and cozey.

The problem isnt that people believe in anything I find to be false. That is human nature. The problem with the species is that they still have an Alpha Male mentality, not an Advise and Consent mutuall agreement goal.

If humanity is to not self distruct it is not based on atheism or theism. It is about finding universal tests that minimize harm and maximize benifit, while still maintaining a majority degree of individuality.

The problem with political and religious compitition is that it goes beyond debate which is where it should stay. Since that is the case, the best course I see is to seek common ground without expectation that the other should worship your position.

Unless you like seeing Jews and Muslims in body bags all day. Unless you like seeing soldiers die every day. I am so sick of political and religious death when most of it could be handled with a good bitch fest and a beer afterword.

The reality is that no matter your political or religious or national origin, we all want the same thing. We all want love, we all want a means to make a living, and we all want to feel like we make a differance and what we do means something.

 

 

THAT is called PEOPLE ABUSING RELIGION, NOT RELIGION ABUSING PEOPLE.  youre an idiot.  I will say it as the glove fits.  Open your mind, kiddo. 


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jce wrote: Lux wrote: But

jce wrote:

Lux wrote:
But then, as oppisite of you guys, as I got older I grew back into my faith in God. In fact, I don't really think it ever left me, for a while I just refused to see it.

This is interesting...how faithful do you see yourself now?  Do you agree with the bible in it's entirety?  Do you accept church doctrine without question?  If you have answered these questions already, I apologize but I have not seen the answers.

 

I am very faithful to God. Chruch doctrine, on the other hand,  has always been a confusing subject. I believe the bible is inspired by men who were inspired by God. DO I think the bible is infallible? No. But I do think that the bible does provide some good parables and a moral compass. It provides a structure from which to find the nature of God. I don't believe that revelations is to be taken litterally. My preist went into this whole thing about how, in those days being a Christian was a punishable offense, so the writter of this book of revelations was actually writing in code. There is meaning of some kinds, but not the litter message contained within it.

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning..." -CS Lewis


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marcusfish wrote: Anbesol

marcusfish wrote:

Anbesol wrote:
if you look at this question and demand you have an all-knowing answer, youre a fucking flaming idiot...your wormy little self-serving brains are capable of articulating the 5000 year old question in your apex of cognition, then you are fucking idiots... So long as you divide people into two people, theists and atheists, you are idiots... hey idiots...you guys really are idiots...you kids ..

Golly, thank goodness you chimed in. Otherwise we might have avoided being called idiots by you ... again.

We are called idots because that is easyer than introspection. 

Dont count Ambesol out yet. At least I'd like to think there is honesty in, "Where did I ever". Unfortunatly may be deluding myself in wishfull thinking that somehow Ambesol can overcome that fear of being wrong.

If Ambesol can give up on spirit sperm and surviving rigor mortis, certainly no one could sell Ambesol invisable pink unicorn. I would love to see that.

The stats on that, well, you'd like to think you pick the right horse in the Kentucky Derby, but most of the time it is a longshot and you wallet is much lighter. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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The book of revelations is

The book of revelations is divisive and spiritually destructive no matter how you chock it up.  If it was used for a time that time has passed.  The book of revelations remaining in the bible is to contradict and go against the very lessons of christ.

I too agree that the bible provides good moral direction, and I too believe it was written by men.  Problem is, the only real purity in the new testament is Jesus himself.  Though some bits of good seeped through corinthians and acts and romans and the sort, everything pretty much fell short of the brilliance of christ and his synoptic and gnostic gospels.  He was simply way too ahead of his time...  I like to think that he was able to dissolve the toxins of the fruit, and that his teachings are his hands that are reaching out for us, to pull us back into the garden of eden and out of the forbidden fruits toxins.  And yes thats a metaphor so for fucks sake dont butcher it with "There is no such thing as forbidden fruit dumbass", Im aware of this, god forbid I speak in metaphor.  oh shit, bad word there, huh.


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Brian37 wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
marcusfish wrote:

Anbesol wrote:
if you look at this question and demand you have an all-knowing answer, youre a fucking flaming idiot...your wormy little self-serving brains are capable of articulating the 5000 year old question in your apex of cognition, then you are fucking idiots... So long as you divide people into two people, theists and atheists, you are idiots... hey idiots...you guys really are idiots...you kids ..

Golly, thank goodness you chimed in. Otherwise we might have avoided being called idiots by you ... again.

We are called idots because that is easyer than introspection.

Dont count Ambesol out yet. At least I'd like to think there is honesty in, "Where did I ever". Unfortunatly may be deluding myself in wishfull thinking that somehow Ambesol can overcome that fear of being wrong.

If Ambesol can give up on spirit sperm and surviving rigor mortis, certainly no one could sell Ambesol invisable pink unicorn. I would love to see that.

The stats on that, well, you'd like to think you pick the right horse in the Kentucky Derby, but most of the time it is a longshot and you wallet is much lighter.

Wow, 3 times and you still havent gotten it. I never said jesus was immaculately conceived, I think that he had a biological mom and dad. In fact, I never said otherwise, why do I keep correcting you on this? you that thick it hadnt seeped in yet? or do you just like putting words into my mouth to make your shallow and weak argument seem stronger. certainly theres a reason you keep deluding your self into believing I said something i did not. what is it?

 

and you have not the first or last clue about deep introspection, you have not known and you show this in your fruits, little dude. I call a spade a spade, and you are an idiot.

 

please cite where it was I said that and I will very humbly leave...  I will not say another word...

 

lol, youre an idiot.  you really are.....  I really try very hard to crack open that barrier of mind in you and you just so desperately cling to it, like a baby girl attached to a doll... 


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Ok, so we agree, spirits


Ok, so we agree, spirits dont knock up girls, and flesh doesnt rise from the dead after 3 days.

So, other than, "I like what this guy said", what do you have to convince me that I should take your position?

If anyone is not paying atttention it is you,

My point is and I have repeted in prior posts is "so what"

Just because you are blown away by the words in a book is irrelevent. I find lots of liturature that "blows me away".

But it doesnt mean that because it "blows me away" that it is no more or no less metaphorical than other things that "blow" others away.

What makes the differance is EVIDENCE!

Warm fuzzies is what you have a case of. I'd suggest you go beyond "I like it" and find some way to demonstrate it. 


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i do not wish you to take

i do not wish you to take any other position then what you your self wants.  I have not wanted to strip you of any position you take, I only wished to strip you of the position you take against.  a position against another begets more condemnation, and they will reverse your antagonism, and its a self-perpetuated problem.  If you had some respect for christs teachings, perhaps you could better have respect for his christians, even if they arent in very good accordance to his words.  and perhaps you can better understand what they mean when they say "the holy spirit" or "the kingdom of god".  Rather then seeing them superficially as hocus pocus nonsense, realizing the depths to the truths of those teachings, not because htey are RIGHT, but because they are experienced.  right can only exist if there is a wrong to define it, by this, all claims of "right" must condemn another "wrong".   I submit to you that seperating people as right and wrong is selfish and short-sighted. 

 

This is also why I submit to you that instead of attacking their beliefs on god, inquire them more about the book of revelations, encourage dialogue, and seek first to understand them, before you are so quick to have them understand you.

 

alas, i am afraid that whatever i say will be picked apart and butchered and twisted... 


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Lux wrote: It seems that

Lux wrote:
It seems that most atheists are atheists because of bad experiences. It seems less to do with rationality or reason, which I think is a cop-out.

Some atheists turned away from their former god(s) because of bad experiences, and found atheism through rational thinking. Some atheists became atheists because of bad experiences and never did so rationally. Still other atheists(myself included), were simply always an atheist.

Lux wrote:

I read most of what the leaders of this here outfit wrote, and it seems they are just sick of religion in general.

As am I.

Lux wrote:
A lot has to do with Judgemental Chrisitans.

If that's all it was then this site would be a waste of time. You don't have to be a christian to be judgemental. Christian terrorists bomb abortion clinics and foster hate against moslems, moslem terrorists bomb jewish and american targets and foster hate against the same. Jewish terrorists also bomb moslem targets though aren't so much into the hate propoganda(which is not to say none of them participate in it).
A religious war for control of the world is going on. I'm not sure the start of the war can be pinpointed. It's probably been going on since before the crusades. We want that war to end. We want to stop being a target of all three of the major monotheistic religions, and every other religion as well.

Lux wrote:
Having spent half my life in Chicago and half in South Carolina, I see a huge difference in Christian mentality. Also, it isn't too easy being Catholic in South Carolina either, so on that note I understand where you all are coming from. Having said that, the difference is I Continue to believe in God because I have done alot of searches for meaning in life, and to me, this is the only thing that makes sense.

I too have sought meaning in life, only to find that the only meaning that exists is that which you make for yourself. If you choose the bible as your meaning that's fine, but I don't think you should go around saying there's a god when you don't know that there is one.

Lux wrote:
I could have gone the other way like you guys did, but I found reason to keep my faith. I think a belief in God rests on a razors edge. But trust in general rests on a razors edge. We are fragile as humans and our emotions and beliefs reflect that. I can come across as a pompus asshole, so I apologize for that in light of my previous posts. Eye-wink

You came across much better than most theists do.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Lux wrote: I am very

Lux wrote:
I am very faithful to God. Chruch doctrine, on the other hand, has always been a confusing subject. I believe the bible is inspired by men who were inspired by God. DO I think the bible is infallible? No. But I do think that the bible does provide some good parables and a moral compass. It provides a structure from which to find the nature of God. I don't believe that revelations is to be taken litterally. My preist went into this whole thing about how, in those days being a Christian was a punishable offense, so the writter of this book of revelations was actually writing in code. There is meaning of some kinds, but not the litter message contained within it.

Thank you!  I understand about church doctrine.  I was never comfortable with being told how to vote, what to think, etc.  Also, being female, I have a whole list of issues with doctrine - LOL.  

Yes, the bible can provide good parables and moral compass, but to me the lessons I thought were good were the same lessons being taught by my parents and society in general.  My parents were not bible-thumpers so good and bad was taught from the standpoint of "treat others as you want to be treated" but the bible was never mentioned.  I guess my question to you is, do you think you would be less moral without the bible and why?

I was taught that the bible was written by men that were divinely inspired by god, but again as I got older and looked into the translation and formulation of that book, I began to see more and more errors.  Naturally, I justified these as best I could until I just could not justify them anymore and realized it was just a book.  Have you done much independent research of the history of the bible?  I have done some, but not enough so I am curious to know if there are any specific resources you used.

Revelations always seemed like something they threw in at the end to scare the shit out of people.   


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Anbesol wrote: JCE - I am

Anbesol wrote:
JCE - I am glad to see you say that, I too feel and see the "banging the head against the wall" within this community.  The community here certainly does provide a good source of frustration, almost in the same sense a stubborn 12 year old does not want to do his homework, or a 8 year old wants to stay out past 11.  They are like little children, and you can see it clearly in their stubborn refusal of all things that arent their very own.

Poor child. You really don't get it.

Anbesol wrote:
Lux, these kids are the most adamently, militant atheist kids I have ever seen in my life. This isnt a matter of them listening to you, they wont listen to anything you say. I gave them the golden and obvious truth of the matter with contradicting their staple argument and they shunned me lol.

Uh huh. Listen kid, on the off chance that I haven't already ripped your so-called "obvious truth of the matter" apart already, feel free to repost it so I can. I don't feel like digging up every one of your posts to locate it.

Anbesol wrote:
They really are that adament to stick with idiotic ways, and theres nothing you can do about it. You too have your idiotic tendencies, such as if you believe the bible is the innerent infallible word of god, or that there is such a thing as an outside authority, but at least you know of god, which is much more then what I can say about these group of little children.

You must really hate being shown as a dumb ass to post 8+ ad hominem attacks without anything of substance. But then that's the quality of a young child, which I'm sure you are. 6 years old maybe?

Anbesol wrote:
Unfortunately, 1400 years of oppression and this is the result - your religion oppressed the masses and this is the cultural by-product of their resistence. They are here because of the oppression the Christians created.

I'm here because theists in general are war mongering hate machines. Not because of christians and only christians.

Anbesol wrote:
tisk tisk.. both of you, you could solve your differences like some grown gentlement, but instead, you are so ardent to convict each other to "does god exist?&

Such a hypocrite. Call everyone names and then suggest that others act like adults. Take your own advice kid.

Anbesol wrote:
hopefully some of you will grow up - we cant have idiots like this continuing to spread their word of hate - what are we teaching our children?

Again, take your own advice and grow up. Learn a few things too.

Anbesol wrote:
That people are divided into two groups? That everybody can be judged by wether they believe in something as arguable as "god"?

Maybe if theists hadn't forced the issue it wouldn't be an issue.

Anbesol wrote:
You guys are resisting the oppression of the christian community, and combatting it with further segregation and reverse oppression - youre seeking harmony and balance in the wrong way, with a closed narrow mind.

Lies. We resist the oppression of religion entire. And your self modeled projections of narrow minds are amusing.

Anbesol wrote:
I say this, so long as "Does god exist" remains the staple argument, so long as you continue to seperate and segregate people by "atheist" vs "theist".... your levels of condescent towards others is absolutely repulsive and its also self destructive.

You're looking at the wrong group. Go to a church and say that.

Anbesol wrote:

but far be it for me to show you guys what is clearly obvious to an unleaning mind.

Far be it from allowing me to prove you a pompous asshole with nothing to back up your assertions, since you won't back up your assertions.

Anbesol wrote:
you guys think, believe, and see things the way that you do not because youre critical thinkers or free thinkers or broad minded, but because your mind is leaning to, the opposite direction a christian fanatics mind leans....

If you really believe that then perhaps you can demonstrate why it's rational to believe in a god.

Anbesol wrote:
by the way, kids - almost all religions say "you have always believed, you were born believing", and all people reach a point in the religion where they realize that, much iun the same way you have experiences with atheistic beliefs.

Hey kid, I wonder why every religion claims that everyone believes in it whether it's true or not.

Anbesol wrote:
but my my my it must be because you guys are all so much better then everybody else, far be it for you to do the research with an open mind, noo no no no no! you found your convictions, no need to remain inquisitive about life, you know the answer now lets go to war!

Nice. One paragraph and you completely destroy all your credibility and throw yourself into the fires of stupidity. Have fun there kid. We'll have fun in the real world.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Anbesol wrote: i do not

Anbesol wrote:

i do not wish you to take any other position then what you your self wants. I have not wanted to strip you of any position you take, I only wished to strip you of the position you take against. a position against another begets more condemnation, and they will reverse your antagonism, and its a self-perpetuated problem. If you had some respect for christs teachings, perhaps you could better have respect for his christians, even if they arent in very good accordance to his words. and perhaps you can better understand what they mean when they say "the holy spirit" or "the kingdom of god". Rather then seeing them superficially as hocus pocus nonsense, realizing the depths to the truths of those teachings, not because htey are RIGHT, but because they are experienced. right can only exist if there is a wrong to define it, by this, all claims of "right" must condemn another "wrong". I submit to you that seperating people as right and wrong is selfish and short-sighted.

 

This is also why I submit to you that instead of attacking their beliefs on god, inquire them more about the book of revelations, encourage dialogue, and seek first to understand them, before you are so quick to have them understand you.

 

alas, i am afraid that whatever i say will be picked apart and butchered and twisted...

Quote:
I have not wanted to strip you of any position you take, I only wished to strip you of the position you take against.  a position against another begets more condemnation,

If one is sold metaphore without prior fact then they turn around and sell metaphore that may make them feel good, but may just be sugar. If one is using metaphore to illistrate established fact, they dont sell metaphore but illistrate fact without confusing sugar with fact. 

Here is what is going on.

You say potato, I say patato. Ok, we've established that. Now can we get to the evidence? 

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Anbesol wrote: i do not

Anbesol wrote:

i do not wish you to take any other position then what you your self wants. I have not wanted to strip you of any position you take, I only wished to strip you of the position you take against.

Anbesol, we are here to discuss, not bend to your wishes.

As I stated in my previous warning to you, some people are quite assertive and some prefer a more gentle approach.  On these forums (other than the Kill 'Em With Kindness forum), either choice is within the rules of this site.

Your name-calling and insults are certainly not going to bring anyone to your way of thinking.

Your posts are inflammatory and are clearly in violation of Rule 2.1 Antagonism.  If you continue to post in this manner, you will be banned.

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Quote: Do I think the bible

Quote:
Do I think the bible is infallible? No. But I do think that the bible does provide some good parables and a moral compass. It provides a structure from which to find the nature of God. I don't believe that revelations is to be taken litterally.

 

And what would you call the commissioner of said book?

I wonder if Dr Sues, would have been printed if the author had spelled "C.A.T"  "bdfbeerrererere". Would that make sense?

If it is falable, why would a perfect being want that?

The bible was written over a 1,000 year period, by over 40 authors with books left out. That is not a sign of an "all powefull" being. That is a sign that humans wrote things down because they like it. 

Quote:
I don't believe that revelations is to be taken litterally.

The violent parts never do get taken litterally, that would make dad look bad. 

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Vastet wrote: Anbesol

Vastet wrote:
Anbesol wrote:
Lux, these kids are the most adamently, militant atheist kids I have ever seen in my life. This isnt a matter of them listening to you, they wont listen to anything you say. I gave them the golden and obvious truth of the matter with contradicting their staple argument and they shunned me lol.
Uh huh. Listen kid, on the off chance that I haven't already ripped your so-called "obvious truth of the matter" apart already, feel free to repost it so I can. I don't feel like digging up every one of your posts to locate it.

Here is the original argument / first post


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I am an atheist and I was

I am an atheist and I was raised in a Christian church. I also had some bad experiences with the church as a teenager, but I was raised in a very strange church. I don’t believe that is why I am an atheist now but I think it did affect my eventual decision to leave the Christian religion. I had bad experiences and that lead me to be unhappy with my religious life. Because I was unhappy I started to think things like –if this religion is supposed to be truth then why does it feel so wrong. This lead me to question if it was truth and helped me develop critical thinking skills by trying to think outside the box of religion.


However it does sounds like I am a minority. It seems like I read somewhere that most atheists are born atheists. Maybe it was a Dawkins book.

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Jessica0 wrote: I also

Jessica0 wrote:

I also had some bad experiences with the church as a teenager, but I was raised in a very strange church. I don’t believe that is why I am an atheist now but I think it did affect my eventual decision to leave the Christian religion. I had bad experiences and that lead me to be unhappy with my religious life. Because I was unhappy I started to think things like –if this religion is supposed to be truth then why does it feel so wrong. This lead me to question if it was truth and helped me develop critical thinking skills by trying to think outside the box of religion.


However it does sounds like I am a minority. It seems like I read somewhere that most atheists are born atheists. Maybe it was a Dawkins book.

I suspect you are not alone in this revelation. As most of us can see, it is easy to question the existance of god and the rationale behind following doctrine. However, it is only when we are free from the threat of eternal violence that we have the courage to look at this reality.  

I think bad experiences turn people away from religion, not away from god. It is rational deduction that I believe turns people from god.