why i find this site stupid.

thisisbart
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why i find this site stupid.

i have my own personal beliefs, they dont fit within 'christianity' or anything of that sort, mainly because i dont live a 'christ like lifestyle' by any means. i'm horribly annoyed by christians who push their beliefs on me. i'm horribly annoyed by close minded christians who dont listen to anyone else, or who target vulnerable people and flood them with propoganda to make them believe what they want them to believe.i'm also quite annoyed with aetheists who lower themselves to the standards of the modern day christian. in the sense of doing everything i just described, except shoving aetheism into ones face, instead of the bible. thats all this site is, lets make some trendy propoganda bullshit slogan such as "believe in  god? we'll fix that" thats just as stupid as a chrsitian saying "are you an aetheist?! we'll fix that". why does anyone need to fix anyone. promote independant thinking. if you believe in god, great. dont go creating websites encouraging people to upload videos of themselves proclaiming it everywhere. and if you dont believe in god, great. its still lame to try to get all this attention from it. and stop trying to end christmas. if you're an aetheist, why the fuck do you care? you get presents and the religous folk can do whatever the heck kinda ceremony they want, everyone ends up fine. besides, last i checked, most of these holidays, as religious as they seem, have serious pagan roots anyway. i dont remember the easter bunny or the easter basket, or the easter egg being mentioned in the bible. how about you take all the attention you're getting from this website, and donations and such, and go feed starving kids in africa. atleast thats a cause worth fighting for. let people believe what they wanna believe, and go do something good for the world.(and by good for the world, i dont mean create another you-tube challenge to get another spot on dateline.)


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How about you save the

How about you save the sermon,  brother bart? From my perspective, you're looking like everything that you claim to dislike.

Why not read some more of the site before judging? Why not put some money behind that keyboard of judgment and visit www.atheistvolunteers.org which is a site created by the Rational Response Squad?

After you get done with paypal, then you can come back here and apologize for your narrow-mindedness. We'll be waiting.

Also, could you tell me how valuable APATHY is since you obviously would rather let religious belief have its free reign over mankind? 

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thisisbart wrote: promote

thisisbart wrote:
promote independant thinking. if you believe in god, great. dont go creating websites encouraging people to upload videos of themselves proclaiming it everywhere.

Isn't one of the way to promote independent thought is to let people know there are other points of views they may want to consider? In the digital/computer age a website is the perfect way to get those ideas out there. 


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i must say, i like being

i must say, i like being called brother bart. and i dont 'let religous belief have its free reign over mankind'. its not my job to govern what people should or shouldnt believe. i just think  it'd be a better world if christians kept their mouth shuts more, and aetheists did the same. these beliefs should be personal and not pushed onto others.



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If you have such a problem

If you have such a problem with this forum, why did you create an account and go to the trouble of posting your diatribe?

Do you go to the same trouble with xian sites? 

Hang around the forums and read what people are writing.  Maybe you'll get a better idea of what's going on here and why. 

If one can get past the fussing and cussing in your post, it sounds like you might have interesting thoughts to add to some of the discussions here. 

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Tell me when Christians

Tell me when Christians have ever kept their mouths shut?  It isn't going to happen, so we must challenge.

For a very long time, I would have been happy to live and let live, but the Christians in my life never let that happen. They pushed and pushed and pushed.  I intend to push back.   

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so if one is doing wrong

so if one is doing wrong then it is good to do wrong back? great logic. for a brief second, remember the irratation you had with all the pushing coming from the christians that you speak of. i dont understand the point in participating in what you criticize. and notice that i did not use one curse word! hah i apologize, it is late here.
it just seems to me that alot of  irratation of aetheists comes from closeminded christians shoving their opinions down everyones throats. i, in no way condone this, and im afraid that i might become the defendant of christianity in this forum, which is not my intent.i just dont like the idea of shoving anything down anyones throat. i especially didnt like the part of that news article that talked about how this site is advertized on all the teen websites. it just doesnt make sense to me.


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So you think it's stupid

So you think it's stupid for people to shove their opinions in other people's faces and your reaction to this is to come to a public forum and shove your opinion into other people's faces.

Have you thought this through? Your argument defeats itself, if RRS is stupid for doing that then how stupid are you?

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i'm an indiot. ill admit

i'm an indiot.ill admit that.i was being more specific though, like shoving religon or the belief or non belief of god down ones throat.


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thisisbart wrote: i'm an

thisisbart wrote:
i'm an indiot.ill admit that.i was being more specific though, like shoving religon or the belief or non belief of god down ones throat.

What difference could that possibly make? You said this:

Quote:
i just dont like the idea of shoving anything down anyones throat.

Well that's exactly what you're doing right now. You're shoving your opinions down my throat. If you think this is wrong then why are you doing it?

Unless maybe you think it's ok to express some opinions and not others in which case I would ask on what basis do you decide what it's ok to talk about?

You're just not making any sense right now. I think that you should reexamine your position.

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H.P. Lovecraft


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thisisbart wrote: i'm an

thisisbart wrote:
i'm an indiot.ill admit that.i was being more specific though, like shoving religon or the belief or non belief of god down ones throat.

How many times have xians knocked on your door on Saturday morning?

You might also check out the thread that quotes Letter to the Editor where the author of the letter wants to throw all Atheists out of the country.

Do you really not think xianity isn't being shoved down our throats every day? Have you heard the Pledge of Allegiance? Have you looked at our currency?

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thisisbart wrote: i'm an

thisisbart wrote:
i'm an indiot. ill admit that.i was being more specific though, like shoving religon or the belief or non belief of god down ones throat.

 

You mean like how you used my dollar (I pay for the site) to shove your beliefs down my throat?

 

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Gauche wrote: Unless maybe

Gauche wrote:

Unless maybe you think it's ok to express some opinions and not others in which case I would ask on what basis do you decide what it's ok to talk about?

You're just not making any sense right now. I think that you should reexamine your position.

Damn, Gauche. Smiling  thisisbart got pwned. Smiling 

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theres a beautiful pattern

theres a beautiful pattern in this site where one person makes one point, and then a bunch of other people jump on and say the same exact thing and then a little guy at the end jumps in and says"damn, he got pwned. Smiling'point taken though.sweet pwnage d00ds that was 1337 hah


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You forgot to mention a

You forgot to mention a pattern that has evidence to show for it and that is this entire discussion and several others exactly like it.

You know what? We'll keep answering it the same way or better each and every time. 

Just out of curiosity. Do you go to baptisms and tell them not to dunk the kid in water? If not then why come into a site where people are trying to learn and have discussions and interfere with them?

Here's a computer secret for you. Whenever someone says something that you don't like then hold down CTRL and press 'W'. 

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Much of this noticeable

Much of this noticeable pattern is owed to theists who start or enter threads with the same arguments:  "Prove that god doesn't exist "; "What if you go to hell"; "The bible is true"; and on and on. 

If such exchanges conclude repeatedly with "pwnage", it is because these are non-arguments, which can only follow the same pattern towards refutation.   

If one were to provide a sound argument for god/religion (for a change), we might observe a break in the pattern. 

 

 

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thisisbart wrote:

thisisbart wrote:
theres a beautiful pattern in this site where one person makes one point, and then a bunch of other people jump on and say the same exact thing and then a little guy at the end jumps in and says"damn, he got pwned. Smiling'point taken though.sweet pwnage d00ds that was 1337 hah

Suggestion: why don't you refute Gauche's point? Oh that's right, you can't because he totally made you look like a fool.

Maybe I should start my own subthread: "why i find this poster stupid" (all smalls because the OP never learned how to hit the shift key)...or is that too much like stupid-ing to your level?

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thisisbart wrote: theres a

thisisbart wrote:
theres a beautiful pattern in this site where one person makes one point, and then a bunch of other people jump on and say the same exact thing...

 

There's also a pattern of people coming to our site and bringing the same argument to the table that has been addressed dozens and dozens of times on our site.  Check both mailbag forums.

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Sapient wrote:   There's

Sapient wrote:

 

There's also a pattern of people coming to our site and bringing the same argument to the table that has been addressed dozens and dozens of times on our site. Check both mailbag forums.

lol, pascal's wager. 

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You're right.  Atheists

You're right. 
Atheists shouldn't have to fight against indoctrination. Atheists shouldn't have to fight against religious extremism. And if we lived in an ideal world where theists didn't indoctrinate children, where theists didn't blow up buildings, where theists didn't impose their views on public school children and adults of all ages, where theists didn't have lobbyists in Washington fighting every day to take away our constitutional freedoms, I would be totally in agreement with you. Unfortunately, we don't live in Nirvana-land, where it's okay to just stay neutral and avoid a fight. We live in a world where religious fundamentalists are waging wars on those who don't share their values and  who don't believe their fairytales. 
What your suggesting would only further keep a minority down. This argument was made when the gays fought for their rights, when the blacks fought for their rights, when women fought for their rights, and it is sad that people need to relearn the lesson each and every time.   This behavior cannot be ignored, because without those annoying people who refuse to submit to accepting the world the way it is, there is no progess, and the consequences would be truly dire. 


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thisisbart wrote: i have my

thisisbart wrote:
i have my own personal beliefs, they dont fit within 'christianity' or anything of that sort, mainly because i dont live a 'christ like lifestyle' by any means. i'm horribly annoyed by christians who push their beliefs on me. i'm horribly annoyed by close minded christians who dont listen to anyone else, or who target vulnerable people and flood them with propoganda to make them believe what they want them to believe.i'm also quite annoyed with aetheists who lower themselves to the standards of the modern day christian. in the sense of doing everything i just described, except shoving aetheism into ones face, instead of the bible. thats all this site is, lets make some trendy propoganda bullshit slogan such as "believe in god? we'll fix that" thats just as stupid as a chrsitian saying "are you an aetheist?! we'll fix that". why does anyone need to fix anyone. promote independant thinking. if you believe in god, great. dont go creating websites encouraging people to upload videos of themselves proclaiming it everywhere. and if you dont believe in god, great. its still lame to try to get all this attention from it. and stop trying to end christmas. if you're an aetheist, why the fuck do you care? you get presents and the religous folk can do whatever the heck kinda ceremony they want, everyone ends up fine. besides, last i checked, most of these holidays, as religious as they seem, have serious pagan roots anyway. i dont remember the easter bunny or the easter basket, or the easter egg being mentioned in the bible. how about you take all the attention you're getting from this website, and donations and such, and go feed starving kids in africa. atleast thats a cause worth fighting for. let people believe what they wanna believe, and go do something good for the world.(and by good for the world, i dont mean create another you-tube challenge to get another spot on dateline.)

You have  a problem with thinking? Lets always walk on eggshells because someone else might get offended.

If that were the case we'd still be in the dark ages. I guess debunking the mythology of a flat earth never benifited humanity?

What if Galileo said to his objectors, "You know what, I wont print this because it offends you".

Quote:
Let people believe what they want to believe

In what context?

From a goverment standpoint absolutly. I have empathy for my species so I would not deny them freedom. I want freedom myself.

But that does not mean either side should create government laws banning competitive ideas. And certainly when goverment says "You cant bitch about this" that makes goverment thought police.

We are not advocating any kind of forcefull banning of religion. We are fostering a debate and diolouge without taboos. That way when it is all out in the open we can sort it out without all the violence and political power grabbing.

You silence one you might as well silence all. Why should we be pushed under the rug because we say, "Hey, thats not true"?

It used to be that a majority of people thought the heart did the thinking, and not the brain. Why does it always take kicking and screaming to come to reality? How about a little braveness in introspection and self examination? 

 

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Sapient wrote: thisisbart

Sapient wrote:
thisisbart wrote:
i'm an indiot. ill admit that.i was being more specific though, like shoving religon or the belief or non belief of god down ones throat.

 

You mean like how you used my dollar (I pay for the site) to shove your beliefs down my throat?

 

BINGO!  Excellent point.  (May I use it when necessary?) 

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Susan wrote: BINGO!

Susan wrote:

BINGO! Excellent point. (May I use it when necessary?)

Hmmm...as soon as I donate some bucks, I can use it, too...with permission, of course? Smiling 

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Susan wrote: Sapient

Susan wrote:
Sapient wrote:
thisisbart wrote:
i'm an indiot. ill admit that.i was being more specific though, like shoving religon or the belief or non belief of god down ones throat.

 

You mean like how you used my dollar (I pay for the site) to shove your beliefs down my throat?

 

BINGO! Excellent point. (May I use it when necessary?)

 

Of course.  I guess we should be prepared for someone to tell us they see a pattern on this site of someone saying something, and then someone else coming along and agreeing.

 

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I agree. :-)

I agree. Smiling


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thisisbart wrote: i'm

thisisbart wrote:
i'm horribly annoyed by christians who push their beliefs on me. i'm horribly annoyed by close minded christians who dont listen to anyone else, or who target vulnerable people and flood them with propoganda to make them believe what they want them to believe.i'm also quite annoyed with aetheists who lower themselves to the standards of the modern day christian. in the sense of doing everything i just described, except shoving aetheism into ones face, instead of the bible. thats all this site is, lets make some trendy propoganda bullshit slogan such as "believe in  god? we'll fix that" thats just as stupid as a chrsitian saying "are you an aetheist?! we'll fix that". why does anyone need to fix anyone. promote independant thinking. 

I would like to add something here. Maybe it is just what my atheistic opinion is, but I see these same points raised about outspoken atheists over and over again, and I never see atheists make this point in which I'm about to make (not right away at least).
We are not really pushing a set of "views or beliefs" on people because we don't abide by any. We just simply lack the ones that we are challenging. We are doing exactly what you are suggesting, PROMOTING INDEPDENDENT THINKING. We don't claim to know a certain "truth" or "ultimate explanation" of the universe besides explanations of which we can be intellectually honest about. We are simply pointing out that theists have a lack of evidence and good argument for their positions, and as a result of this, there is widespread harm. If we lived in a society of clashing views on beliefs in magic elves, then that's what we would be challenging. God's have just been more appealing to humans.
Does this clear that up at all? That's how I've always felt and I never see atheists point that out right away. Everyone buys into this stereotype that atheists are just as bad and it is a stereotype that must be shattered.

thisisbart wrote:
how about you take all the attention you're getting from this website, and donations and such, and go feed starving kids in africa. atleast thats a cause worth fighting for. 

Well, maybe if more people were not so heavily indoctrinated in our society (and not just from religion) and were capible of critical thinking then we could do more about it. We want an age of reason.
I encourage you to watch this video with Bill Maher, he says more that needs to be said:    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGNeNaf4G7Y&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmyspace%2Ecom%2F

"Every true faith is infallible -- It performs what the believing person hopes to find in it. But it does not offer the least support for the establishing of an objective truth. Here the ways of men divide. If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search." - Nietzsche


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Quote: theres a beautiful

Quote:

theres a beautiful pattern in this site where one person makes one point, and then a bunch of other people jump on and say the same exact thing and then a little guy at the end jumps in and says

"damn, he got pwned. Smiling' point taken though. sweet pwnage d00ds that was 1337 hah
  Despite what common sense dictates, personally attacking the people on this forum rather than making any kind of an attempt to refute their arguments is a great way to get everyone to accept your policy of apathy. 

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There really isn't much of

There really isn't much of a point left to make here-Bart's points have been defeated completely by the others here, but there was talk of noticing "patterns." I'm noticing another pattern: most of the people I've seen come on here and make arguments like this or otherwise trying to degrade the website or Atheism do not have a very strong grasp upon grammatical skills. Almost without fail, everyone who disagrees with Bart has good sentence and paragraph structure-or at the very least decent spelling and punctuation skills. This may be nitpicky, but I usually find it difficult to take an argument seriously when the person can't even properly spell the name of the group they oppose (I'm sure there are groups of people out there who accept "aetheist" as the proper spelling-but it's not in the dictionary. Atheist, however, is.).

I was going to say more but there's really nothing else I can think of-there's nowhere I can see this topic going.

Humanity needs compassion and knowledge-an end to bigotry and undue ignorance. Religion stands in the way of these and my other ideals so strongly that I can't think of a stance apart from atheism that will allow me to feel like a decent human being.


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thisisbart wrote: so if one

thisisbart wrote:
so if one is doing wrong then it is good to do wrong back? great logic. for a brief second, remember the irratation you had with all the pushing coming from the christians that you speak of. i dont understand the point in participating in what you criticize. and notice that i did not use one curse word! hah i apologize, it is late here.
it just seems to me that alot of  irratation of aetheists comes from closeminded christians shoving their opinions down everyones throats. i, in no way condone this, and im afraid that i might become the defendant of christianity in this forum, which is not my intent.i just dont like the idea of shoving anything down anyones throat. i especially didnt like the part of that news article that talked about how this site is advertized on all the teen websites. it just doesnt make sense to me.

Allow me to clear the clouds. This site is sitting right here. In order for it to affect anyone in any way, they must come here of their own free will and read what the site contains. Unlike theists, who go door to door and broadcast their views with megaphones and signs declaring the end of the world and claim an atheist has no right to be a citizen.

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Sapient wrote: thisisbart

Sapient wrote:
thisisbart wrote:
theres a beautiful pattern in this site where one person makes one point, and then a bunch of other people jump on and say the same exact thing...

There's also a pattern of people coming to our site and bringing the same argument to the table that has been addressed dozens and dozens of times on our site.  Check both mailbag forums.

 

There seems to be a new pattern emerging where you avoid real arguments and relegate those whom you fear to dialogue with to troll status even when they post Scientific news. Sapient doesn't even answer my e-mail when I ask him the most simple question and theres no rational excuse for it. Rook won't debate me. I feel like a boxer being avoided out of fear of hurting his opponent.

 

I've asked to debate your whole crew and instead you continuously debate those who you think are easy wins. Come'on get some guts and debate me, please!!!! I'm begging you!

 

 

Then he is of those who believe and charge one another to show patience, and charge one another to show compassion.


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Bodhitharta wrote: There

Bodhitharta wrote:

There seems to be a new pattern emerging where you avoid real arguments and relegate those whom you fear to dialogue with to troll status even when they post Scientific news. Sapient doesn't even answer my e-mail when I ask him the most simple question and theres no rational excuse for it. Rook won't debate me. I feel like a boxer being avoided out of fear of hurting his opponent.

 

People avoide debating you becuase you are dishonest and you dodge like neo. 

 

Bodhitharta wrote:
I've asked to debate your whole crew and instead you continuously debate those who you think are easy wins. Come'on get some guts and debate me, please!!!! I'm begging you!

 You already have several dabets in the troll section of the boards.

Why don't you respond to questions already brought out against you instead of ignoring them and jumping in here and asking for a debate! 

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Bodhitharta wrote: There

Bodhitharta wrote:
There seems to be a new pattern emerging where you avoid real arguments and relegate those whom you fear to dialogue with to troll status even when they post Scientific news. Sapient doesn't even answer my e-mail when I ask him the most simple question and theres no rational excuse for it. Rook won't debate me. I feel like a boxer being avoided out of fear of hurting his opponent.

I'm not going to compare myself and other posters with Rook and Sapient in general except to say why the hell would they want to take time out of their learning and administrative efforts to defeat someone in "debate" who can't make it past the standard memberships arguments? I personally have destroyed everything you've said on more than a dozen seperate occassions. With almost no effort at all. At least 5 or 6 other board posters with no direct attachment to the RRS have done the same. You have no points left. You merely dodge and ignore and are the perfect definition of intellectual dishonesty. You don't know the meaning of the word debate. Debate and Bodhitharta in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

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Bodhitharta wrote: There

Bodhitharta wrote:

There seems to be a new pattern emerging where you avoid real arguments and relegate those whom you fear to dialogue with to troll status even when they post Scientific news. Sapient doesn't even answer my e-mail when I ask him the most simple question and theres no rational excuse for it. Rook won't debate me. I feel like a boxer being avoided out of fear of hurting his opponent.

I've asked to debate your whole crew and instead you continuously debate those who you think are easy wins. Come'on get some guts and debate me, please!!!! I'm begging you!

 

Bod, plenty of people respond to your posts.  Please quit complaining about not getting special attention from the core members.

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Bodhitharta wrote: There

Bodhitharta wrote:

There seems to be a new pattern emerging where you avoid real arguments and relegate those whom you fear to dialogue with to troll status even when they post Scientific news. Sapient doesn't even answer my e-mail when I ask him the most simple question and theres no rational excuse for it. Rook won't debate me. I feel like a boxer being avoided out of fear of hurting his opponent.

Listen to me. Trolls are not labelled Trolls until they become Trolls. I will not say that again. You're pushing the limits of some of the calmest people that I have ever known.

Bodhitharta wrote:
I've asked to debate your whole crew and instead you continuously debate those who you think are easy wins. Come'on get some guts and debate me, please!!!! I'm begging you!

Attempts have been made to establish discussions with you by members of the site. Obviously, humility is not well-covered in your brand of theism as evidenced by those discourses. The sheer level of egotism on your part is astounding.

It isn't exclusively the squad that really doesn't want to hear you assert, deny, deny, deny, assert, assert, change topic, assert, deny, cry, assert, assert, declare yourself unanswered, attack RRS motivations, assert, cry, troll, troll, assert, change topic, assert, troll, declare yourself unanswered, troll. (just a subjective assessment of one thread you've posted in)

Please. Don't beg. That is so unbecoming and unnecessary.

 

I've warned you before about this behavior:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/4630

 

That was given as kindness for the delusional. I will be registering my opinion on the issue of Bodhitharta in one minute.

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Religious belief ought to be

Religious belief ought to be replaced with that of (at least) methodological naturalism. Religion irritates me because it prizes the intensity of belief over the reasoning for holding that belief. This view is plainly wrong. It has an unfortunate impact on the social and intellectual aspects of a country.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.


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Patterns and such aside, we

Patterns and such aside, we need to confront theists because history has proven they can be dangerous.  Throughout history Christians and their belief in their version of God has resulted in countless murders in the name of religion.  The scholar Hypatia hacked to death by monks in the 4th century because she presumed to teach men, against God's will is an example of the narrow-minded dogma evident in the beginnings of Christianity. 

Orthodox Christians were in part responsible for the downfall of the Western Roman Empire and largely responsible for the decline of civilization in the dark ages after coming to power and sytematically eliminating science, art, literature, technology, history, medicine, etc. 

The plague of the 5th century and the great bubonic plague were helped in no small part by the Church's claim that the plagues were brought about by God to punish the people for not adhering to the word according to the Church.  More than 100 million people died during the plagues.

The Crusades, Salem witch trials, countless wars in the name of God, all the result of Christians gaining control or influence within governments.

The current pope was a nazi sympethizer who assisted in the naming of Jews on the Church rolls knowing what the result would be.  The Catholic Church early on sought a treaty with the Nazi government prior to the war and ordered priests in France and other countries to cooperate with the nazi regime.  Before you even think it, Hitler was not an atheist, he was a card carrying Catholic who often invoked God in his speeches.

Christian fundamentalists need to be confronted now before they gain any more control or influence in our government than they already have with the great pissant Bush. 

It would be greatly beneficial to the world and humanity if we could stamp out all religion as irrational thought, but I doubt that will ever happen.  At least, probably not before societies destroy themselves. 

Dogma of one's religion is a dangerous thing.  Atheism is not a religion, it is more a rational examination of the mythology of religion and freedom of thought.  There are no rules, rituals, holy texts, threats of burning in hell, or any of the other trappings of religion, including close-mindedness and ignorance.

You will not find Atheists attempting to take over the government in order to thrust our beliefs (or lack therof) onto society.  We will try to show theists the folly of their belief systems and the inherent dangers as we must if our society, indeed, the society of humankind is to survive intact.

Just as an aside; a recent study showed that you are more likely to find atheist doctors donating their time and skills to the treatment of the poor in our own country and other countries than Christian doctors.  That should say something.

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
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thank you bulldog!   i

thank you bulldog!

 

i just looked up my way to random to memorize password just to post that this 'live and let live' attitude can not be accepted when religion has resulted in such damaging effects... of course, before i got around to that you said it much better than i would have.


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Bulldog wrote: The current

Bulldog wrote:

The current pope was a nazi sympethizer who assisted in the naming of Jews on the Church rolls knowing what the result would be.

 

Whilst there is indeed evidence of papal colusion with the Nazis, I'm pretty sure that isn't true.  He turned 14 in 1941 an was enrolled in Hitler Youth, as was manditory for kids that age.  I have no idea where that other bit could have come from.

 

Let's attribute the correct stupid shit to the guy. 

 


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Bulldog wrote: The current

Bulldog wrote:

The current pope was a nazi sympethizer who assisted in the naming of Jews on the Church rolls knowing what the result would be. The Catholic Church early on sought a treaty with the Nazi government prior to the war and ordered priests in France and other countries to cooperate with the nazi regime. Before you even think it, Hitler was not an atheist, he was a card carrying Catholic who often invoked God in his speeches.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

 

You will not find Atheists attempting to take over the government in order to thrust our beliefs (or lack therof) onto society.  We will try to show theists the folly of their belief systems and the inherent dangers as we must if our society, indeed, the society of humankind is to survive intact.

Hoxha? Stalin?  

 


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Bulldog wrote: The

Bulldog wrote:

The Catholic Church early on sought a treaty with the Nazi government prior to the war and ordered priests in France and other countries to cooperate with the nazi regime.

 

 

France Cooperate? Then why did Germany invade them?

 

French resistance anyone? Didn't they compare themselves to Joan of Arc and say they were called on by God to drive out the Nazis?

Why, I believe they did! 

 

 

 


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Wait, god was the best

Wait, god was the best reason they could come up with?  Thats lame.

 

And are you saying there were no French Nazi collaborators? 

 Also if we can create an internet meme like Goodwin's law onlt replacing Hitler with Stalin or Mao or whoever, can we use that to disregard what you have to say about them?

 

 And those guys promoted a cult of personality that was similar to, and as bad as religion.


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BizarroAzrael wrote: Wait,

BizarroAzrael wrote:

Wait, god was the best reason they could come up with? Thats lame.

No, that wasn't my point.

 

 

Quote:

And are you saying there were no French Nazi collaborators?

I'm sure there were French Nazi collaborators. That wasn't my point.

 

Are you (Or the person who posted that message) saying there were no non-Christian Nazis?

 

Quote:
 

Also if we can create an internet meme like Goodwin's law onlt replacing Hitler with Stalin or Mao or whoever, can we use that to disregard what you have to say about them?

I posted them because the poster said no atheist attempted to 'thrust' their beliefss (or lack there of) onto society.

Hoxha sure did. 

Did he do it because he was atheist? No. Did Hitler do his action because he was Christian? No.

Both were merely taking by their political ideaologies, the actual driving force behind their actions. 

 

Quote:
 

And those guys promoted a cult of personality that was similar to, and as bad as religion.

No, they (Hitler, Stalin, Hoxha) all promoted their political agendas. 


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Vichy France was a fascist

Vichy France was a fascist hull through which the German overlords ruled the French coutryside.  The government put an aging, senile Marshal Petain forth as the president.  In the meanwhile, the Frenchmen of the countryside revelled in their new, jewless country.

*Spits*  Les Francais sont les chiens sales qui fouent ses meres eux-memes!

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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My apologies.  I was up at

My apologies.  I was up at 3 a.m. for work the morning before I wrote this and 21 hrs later was not thinking clearly.  My unfortunate comment about the current pope was based on a foggy recall of something I'd read somewhere else.  The Catholic Church had negotiated with the Nazi's to receive favorable status before the Nazi's established a presence in Italy.  As to France; I had meant to say Germany as the Catholic Clergy there and in other countries such as Poland and Hungary did assist the Nazi's.  The Church opened its books of geneology to the Nazis revealing those of Jewish descent. The Church in Rome, while publicly standing against the persecution of Jews was complicit in that no one in the Nazi party and none of the clergy in those nations were ever ex-communicated or even threatened with ex-communication, even after the war. 

And, yes; the Vichy government in France cooperated fully with the Nazis.

Again, I apologize for my statement regarding the current pope.  However, he is quite orthodox in his views as recently demonstrated when he issued a paper reiterating the Church's stand that they are the only way to salvation.  He continually decries the secularism of the West and is trying to reassert the influence of the Church with governments in small but potentially dangerous ways.  Shades of the Dark Ages. 

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
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Nero wrote: Vichy France

Nero wrote:

Vichy France was a fascist hull through which the German overlords ruled the French coutryside. The government put an aging, senile Marshal Petain forth as the president. In the meanwhile, the Frenchmen of the countryside revelled in their new, jewless country.

*Spits* Les Francais sont les chiens sales qui fouent ses meres eux-memes!

 

1) Petain was executed for treason.  

2) He surrendered to the Nazis because they were about to level France.

 

Hitler also signed a treaty with Stalin, so I don't see how this is relevant.

 


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I was not saying atheists

I was not saying atheists would not attempt to take control of a government or push their beliefs on others in a historical context.  And I really can't say absolutely that it could not occur today.  From a philosophical viewpoint, I don't believe you would find any atheist today who would try to do this in the context of an attempt to force everyone to renounce their belief in God or ban churches and religions.  Not the same can be said about the Fundies.

I really am going to have to stay off these things late night.  I only mentioned Hitler was a Catholic because Theists often make the claim that he was an atheist when his name is brought up.  My point is not about Hitler's motives, rather it is about the motives of theists.

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Both facts stated are

Both facts stated are untrue, sir.  I would advise you to start checking your history before typing.

1.) Philippe Petain died of old age in 1951.  He was sentenced to death, but the sentence was commuted by the pig, DeGaulle.

2.) Petain welcomed the Nazis.  The Third Republic was in flames, and the doddering old man was placed as a strawman at its helm. 

Si tu voudrais, nous pourrions continuer ce discussion en privee.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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I think it's worth noting

I think it's worth noting that atheism, unlike things like communism, nationalism or religions, is not something that can unite people on a wide range of topics.  Just because we can unite for a cause like free speach or the promotion of rationality and an end to the things that inhibit "free-thought", does not mean we could unite in the interest of any kind of coup.  On it's own, atheism can't do that, but religions can and have.


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Nero wrote: Both facts

Nero wrote:

Both facts stated are untrue, sir. I would advise you to start checking your history before typing.

1.) Philippe Petain died of old age in 1951. He was sentenced to death, but the sentence was commuted by the pig, DeGaulle.

He was still charged with treason. I thought he was acutally executed, but apparently not, and I didn't know it was commuted.

 

 

Quote:

2.) Petain welcomed the Nazis. The Third Republic was in flames, and the doddering old man was placed as a strawman at its helm.


Main point: France surrendered. 

 

Quote:

Si tu voudrais, nous pourrions continuer ce discussion en privee.

 

No, because all this is a red herring anyway. I never said no French person supported the Nazis. I'm sure some did. But the point is, they probably did so for political, not religious reasons.

And I'm not as up to snuff on my French history. I read history  as a hobby/pastime, not for scholary value. 

 

 


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Bulldog wrote: I was not

Bulldog wrote:

I was not saying atheists would not attempt to take control of a government or push their beliefs on others in a historical context. And I really can't say absolutely that it could not occur today. From a philosophical viewpoint, I don't believe you would find any atheist today who would try to do this in the context of an attempt to force everyone to renounce their belief in God or ban churches and religions. Not the same can be said about the Fundies.

 

Of course the Fundies are forcing their beliefs on others. My point is that not all religious people are like that.

 

 

Quote:
 

I really am going to have to stay off these things late night. I only mentioned Hitler was a Catholic because Theists often make the claim that he was an atheist when his name is brought up. My point is not about Hitler's motives, rather it is about the motives of theists.

 

It's actually nice to see someone say something like this. 

 


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Thank you.  I realize not

Thank you.  I realize not all Christians are dogmatic enough to be a danger.  However, It's a little difficult sometimes to tell a psycopathic personality from a normal one.  Although the diatribes some of them write on this site are evidence enough.  These are the people who need to be confronted wherever and whenever possible.  Likely as not they will never come to their senses but it needs to be attempted.  Especially in a public forum.  And taking a live and let live attitude is what has always allowed the demented ones to take power.

"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." Thomas Jefferson
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