I'm an atheist, RRS is the most ridiculous group I've ever heard of

RationalRespons...
Moderator
RationalResponseSquad's picture
Posts: 556
Joined: 2006-08-17
User is offlineOffline
I'm an atheist, RRS is the most ridiculous group I've ever heard of

Quote:
...I must say that your values are pretty screwed up. Yes, I'm atheist, but that, by no means, means that I want to push my beliefs on to other people.

Fine by me.

Quote:
Do you like when religions push their beliefs on you?

1. If they're right, yes I do. 2. Our problem with religion is not that they try to convince others of their point of view.

Quote:
If religion gives people hope, why take that away from them?

Heroin gives people hope too.

Quote:
If it makes them feel safe, what can be so wrong with it?

It breeds ignorance, intolerance, hate, and things like 9-11 and the crusades. Do you find anything wrong with any of that?

Quote:
Leave religious folks be, they deserve a little peace, just as people who don't believe in anything do.

We're not taking away their peace, we're giving them more.

Quote:
This is the most ridiculous group I've ever heard of.

This isn't more ridiculous? www.godhatesfags.com

If you choose to hear more answers to emails similar to yours feel free to read our mailbag sections. Here and here. I've posted this mail in there as well.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.


todangst
atheistRational VIP!
todangst's picture
Posts: 2811
Joined: 2006-03-10
User is offlineOffline
Same old mistakes - that

Same old mistakes - that giving people a chance to think critically is 'pushing atheism' onto them and that there's nothing wrong with delusional thinking as long as it makes you happy.

We've dealt with both of these errors before, we should get a standard reply for them.

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7530
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
RationalResponseSquad

RationalResponseSquad wrote:
Quote:
...I must say that your values are pretty screwed up. Yes, I'm atheist, but that, by no means, means that I want to push my beliefs on to other people.

Fine by me.

In the sense that she uses the word "pushing," she's "pushing" her beliefs on us by trying to convince us to be like her.

I agree we need a standard response. We need a standard response for much of what we get.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
I wonder how many of the

I wonder how many of the people that send this sort f thing are really atheists. You should make them prove it by denying the holy spirit! Laughing out loud

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


Joshua
Silver Member
Joshua's picture
Posts: 8
Joined: 2006-08-13
User is offlineOffline
A Responce!

If one understands the right of freedome of speech and the right to peasably protest in public. Than, how is the RRS forcing there beleafs on others? The internet is public domane, Myspace is a public comunity, and holding a walk, march, or protest in downtown NJ speeking out agenst religon if they so wished is there right. So who the hell is one to sugjest another does'nt have that right just becas one does'nt compleatly agree with the words or openyans of the speech. Is that not a hipocritical atitude, stating, "I have the right to speech but you don't." Everyone in this country has the right to peasably debate in public, and the public openyans of others have no protection for respect frome the openyan of one who would publicly debate anothers openyan, and to destane frome excersising thoes rights invites social stagnation. If you decide to contribute little to nothing at all to the social and/or political develipment of the sociaty you live in, thus choosing complasency over action, than you are asking for your rights to be trampeld on by thoes that take advantige of the rights to freedome of speech and the right to peasably protest in public. So maby you should choos the option you like the least.

"Keep Fighting The Good Fight"
Joshua D. Jones


heBREW Coffee
Posts: 7
Joined: 2006-09-23
User is offlineOffline
Religious hope in comparison

Religious hope in comparison to Herion hope?
I dont think so. I'm not going to even try to refute this by arguement. This is probably the worst analogy I have ever seen. I don't know much about herion, and I be willing to bet you don't either, But from what lyrics I do know from the late Layne Staley, it doesnt sound that pleasent, or hopeful. In addition you project herion with a negative connotation, a connotation denoted by mainstream culture - thats not very objective.

"It breeds ignorance, intolerance, hate, and things like 9-11 and the crusades. Do you find anything wrong with any of that?"

Hmm, I think thats Extremism or fundamentalism. Thats like saying Government breeds corruption and graft, therefore down with government. Please, provide me with an incident when your local parish flew their cropduster into your garage. If all relgion breeds what you mentioned this should be fairly common no? This also applies to GodHatesFags (if you think thats good, go check out God Hates America.com!)

As for your idea of giving theist peace I (surprise) disagree. You are attacking their culture. Christianity is a part of culture. Cultural Relativism is what you should keep in mind when looking at it. Im sure you don't go around attacking the beliefs of the Kalhari Bushmen, calling them irrational. You emit a strong sense of ethnocentrism when you argue. I am not attacking your theological standpoint, but the authoratative nature in which you speak it. Why not just be content and respectful? Nay, we must tote the banner of reason and convert others. Yes convert, not deconvert. Deconvert is not a word, despite what your wikipedia says.


todangst
atheistRational VIP!
todangst's picture
Posts: 2811
Joined: 2006-03-10
User is offlineOffline
heBREW Coffee

heBREW Coffee wrote:
Religious hope in comparison to Herion hope?
I dont think so. I'm not going to even try to refute this by arguement.

Then you're just asserting an opinion....

Quote:

This is probably the worst analogy I have ever seen. I don't know much about herion,

... based an a professed ignorance of the subject of heroin.

Quote:

"It breeds ignorance, intolerance, hate, and things like 9-11 and the crusades. Do you find anything wrong with any of that?"

Hmm, I think that's Extremism or fundamentalism.

Thats like saying Government breeds corruption and graft, therefore down with government.

Your analogy fails, because the reason that religion leads to the problems Sapient identified is because it inculcates belief through faith. Government does not necessarily work through inculcating faith.

Quote:

Please, provide me with an incident when your local parish flew their cropduster into your garage. If all relgion breeds what you mentioned this should be fairly common no?

Sapient is not saying that all religious groups endorse events like 9/11, so your argument is a strawman.

What he is saying is that basing beliefs on desire alone could lead to all sorts of danger, because it allows people to justify their hatreds as the commands of a god.

Quote:

As for your idea of giving theist peace I (surprise) disagree. You are attacking their culture. Christianity is a part of culture.
Cultural Relativism is what you should keep in mind when looking at it. Im sure you don't go around attacking the beliefs of the Kalhari Bushmen, calling them irrational. You emit a strong sense of ethnocentrism when you argue.

Every human is capable of being rational. It's not ethnocentrism to want people to think rationally. Your attempt to make this an attack on culture is silly.

Quote:

I am not attacking your theological standpoint, but the authoratative nature in which you speak it. Why not just be content and respectful? Nay, we must tote the banner of reason and convert others. Yes convert, not deconvert.

No, it would be deconvert, as atheism is a return to the natural state. Religion must be inculcated, and the inculcation takes place in youth.

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7530
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Wow... I can really see why

Wow... I can really see why this Hebrew Coffee kid gets confused for a theist. sheesh, he said on the FreethinkingTeens myspace page:

Quote:

I rarely comment on any atheist boards anymore because discourse usually tends to be just about as free as Christian Fundy boards - as in "You don't think like I do? Your an idiot." I will stop by these boards though, and probably be condemned as a "theist" (a label that is falsely imbued with notions of ignorance) despite the fact, that I hold no set beliefs on such issues.

As Wittgestien said : "Whereof one does not know; Thereof one cannot speak"

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


heBREW Coffee
Posts: 7
Joined: 2006-09-23
User is offlineOffline
I shall defend my assertion

I shall defend my assertion that a heroine/religion analogy is a bad one. First, I appreciate the selective quoting that you have done Todangst. I said "I don't know much about herion, and I be willing to bet you don't either." You included only the former element not the latter. According to your precepts (at least those implied), one must have experience with the topic in order to make a comparison. Well then Sapient (and you too todangst) I would like to see a more explained comparison between the hope drawn from heroine and the hope drawn from religion - based off of personal expierience and knowledge. You cannot simply state something as you did without defending it. Furthermore, from what knowledge I do have of both herion and relgion, I find the comparison unfit, being that herion is a chemically dependant substance with negative physical effects. People take herione to escape pain, but succumb to an addiction that can be life threatening. Religion also may be an escape from pain, however, when practiced moderately it is not lifethreatning or physically delbiltating. However moderatley practicing herione can kill you and phsycially debilitate you.

As for your idea that government does not inculcates (good word, I had to look it up) faith or belief, I don't agree. Governement does enforces beliefs through repetition in many ways. The pledge of Alliegiance, phrases such as "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", various holidays are all forced upon us since birth, in an effort to produce order. These are very similiar (in nature not content) to the Christian maxims (the ten Commandments) and holidays.

"Sapient is not saying that all religious groups endorse events like 9/11, so your argument is a strawman.
What he is saying is that basing beliefs on desire alone could lead to all sorts of danger, because it allows people to justify their hatreds as the commands of a god."

Actually in context, he was saying that religion (therefore all groups) endorse these events. "It" through the preceeding arguements was religion, and he connected "it" with acts of extremism, not specifying that the "it" was extremism itself. Its a grammar thing.

I wholeheartedly agree with you point that desire alone breeds all sorts of danger. However, throughout history people have justified hatred on more than God, particularly in the current era with regards to racism. The predominant justification of racism is biological infierioity rather than God. Since hatred is not always justified on God, it can not be because of religion. There must be another factor in humans that compels them to justify hatred. In other words God is just a means, rather than the act.

"Every human is capable of being rational. It's not ethnocentrism to want people to think rationally. Your attempt to make this an attack on culture is silly."

As for every human being capable of being rational, yes I agree, however I feel this is a deep question and should be discussed seperately. Now, I disagree that it is not ethnocentrism to want people to think rationally. The want for logic is a part of Western Culture. Your culture has made rationale the highest of highs, and you are compelled to spread it, since you have been told it is the absolute so to speak. So yes you are forcing your subconcious mantras on other cultures.

Finally, this atheism as the natural state is an interesting idea, which i disagree with, but that is a different topic. Also deconvert is not a word. Please go to a dictionary - a real dicitionary not wikipedia and guess what its non-existant. It is just a unique term developed from atheist activism, a term only exsistant in relation to this forum and not indepentaly exsistant in a umm... dictionary