INTRO TO HISTORY ENROLLMENT THREAD: 1st 'Semester'
Offline This is the thread in which you will enroll for the class, Introduction to Classical and Modern History, taught by Rook Hawkins. If you want to take this course, simply complete the following pre-course survey (should only take you a few minutes). Please be as honest as possible in answering these. Please submit your answers by replying to this thread. My suggestion is to quote the survey questions individually in one post.
Please note that after the first class starts on THURSDAY you can no longer ENROLL in the course, therefore you are ineligible to get the badge and the access to the private forum. However anybody is welcome to join in the class regardless.
ON THURSDAY, PLEASE GO HERE AT ONE OF THE CLASS TIMES: http://www.stickam.com/profile/sapient
THAT IS WHERE THE CLASS WILL BE HELD.
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME:
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
6. Why did you register for this course?
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
9. What are your expectations for this course?
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Enrollment will close (as will this thread) on THURSDAY, June 7th at 3:55pm EST.
ON THURSDAY, PLEASE GO HERE AT ONE OF THE CLASS TIMES:
http://www.stickam.com/profile/sapient
THAT IS WHERE THE CLASS WILL BE HELD.
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Please help me get my resources so I can finish my book more quickly.
My wish list.
Et suppositio nil ponit in esse.
"You act ridiculously," said Ion, "to doubt everything. For my part, I should like to ask you what you say to those who free possessed men from their terrors by exorcising the spirits so manifestly. I need not discuss this: everyone knows about the Syrian from Palestine, the adept in it, how many he takes in hand who fall down in the light of the moon and roll their eyes and fill their mouths with foam; nevertheless, he restores them to health and sends them away normal in mind, delivering them from their straits for a large fee. When he stands beside them as they lie there and asks : 'Whence came you into his body?' the patient himself is silent, but the spirit answers in Greek or in the language of whatever foreign country he comes from, telling how and whence he entered into the man; whereupon, by adjuring the spirit and if he does not obey, threatening him, he drives him out. Indeed, I actually saw one coming out, black and smoky in color." "It is nothing much," I remarked," for you, Ion, to see that kind of sight, when even the 'forms' that the father of your school, Plato, points out are plain to you, a hazy object of vision to the rest of us, whose eyes are weak." - Lucian, Lover of Lies
NAME: Voiderest or Stephen
1. Please complete the following statement: History is our past as far as we know it.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
I viewed as trying to define history. The 'as far as we know' part deals with the idea that the history books tend to be written by the winners/powers at be.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
School is probably the place where most of these ideas came from as that would have been the first time sat me down and told me what history is.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would ask them their views and try to figure out why our views differ while trying to figure out what it is about my views the person has a problem with.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Comical, Definitions, Quotes
6. Why did you register for this course?
To learn about how history is written or claimed and how we know it is "True."
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The Bible is not history because it includs myth that is trying to put forth an idea about life/existiance.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (6)?
The reasoning would most likly be different for each person, but it the bottem line would be everyone wants to learn. No one can say they have to take the course.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I will learn about the historians and what they added to the field of history.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
H G Wells
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Fiction
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758 My ROE: Defend when attacked. Attack when enemy becomes enemy. Enemy becomes enemy when they harm others. http://www.myspace.com/rrstx
NAME: Savage
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
Usually something that has been chronologically recorded of the past. History is probably the most important thing to get an understanding of because the more we know about our history the more we can accurately predict the future. An example of this would be plate tectonics. We know how large masses of land once were millions of years ago and we see where they have moved from then up until now. Knowing this we can see where these large masses of land will be in the future. History is recorded and being made continuously. Although it is always being recorded you cannot fully trust all of historical recordings because people do IN FACT lie. Such an example of a false record of history is one I’m sure many of the people answering this pre-course survey will mention called the Bible. Is the bible even history? This will be answered in number seven, but until then I will answer numbers two threw six.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
I wanted to keep my answer short and simple simply because it says “anybody is welcome to join in the class regardless.” and I WILL join the class regardless but I didn’t want my answer to just be one sentence and I wanted to show that I really want to be a part of the class. Another reason would be that I was notified at about 3 am the day before the pre-course survey was due. Because of this I didn’t want to make my first answer ten pages long because I would not get ANY sleep. Thanks Rook.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
I have picked up these facts and opinions on history from many different resources including history teachers, history books, encyclopedias, dictionaries, religious mythology such as the bible, and my favorite, the internet.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I am not the smartest person in the world but I DO think that I have common sense and I would say BRING IT ON because if I cannot give you a correct to something right away I assure you that I will get it for you. I would also ask people to challenge my understanding because by doing that I think I would gain more knowledge which is my goal in being the class.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Well I would expect that many people would have much longer, much short, more intelligent, less intelligent answers than mine. Or at least I would hope that they would because if everyone thought like me then I wouldn’t be able to learn anything from them, and I am hear to learn.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Although I know that anybody is welcome to join in the class regardless.
I would like to have access to the private forums, get the badge, and be able to really be apart of the rational response squad and help continue to historically show the inadequacies of the Bible and early Christians.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
According to Websters New World Dictionary history is a known or recorded past. Although I do not believe the bible has a correctly known recorded past, it tries. It is FALSE history and can be proven wrong is many ways and HAS been proven wrong time and time again. It tries to put forth the young earth creation theory which I cannot sum up with any word better than stupid.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (6)?
I’m sure many just flat out say that it is not history but it IS history. Is was written in the past and has, although not a correct, a recording of the past, which much of is not true. Some might disagree with that and say that the bible IS history and that it IS correct but I couldn’t sum my opinions of those people any better that I summed up the young earth creation theory in answer seven.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect to learn a great deal of what is true/not true about history from Rook. Although I denied his existence on youtube.com I have faith, for lack of a better word, that he will still be there to help out. I expect to have to read a lot and put some effort into the class but high school is out for the summer so I will have no problem at all in doing so. My expectations are high.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
No I have not but I would like to read Richard Carriers “Sense and Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism” and “The DaVinci Fraud: Why the Truth is Stranger than Fiction” by Robert M. Price.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Well this isn’t applicable so I guess this is the end of my pre-course survey. Peace.
You've been spoon fed belief and you don't even see it, You just absorbed the religion that's native to your region - Greydon Square
Mike
Anything that happened before now. More specifically, the scholarly study of such.
Partly to be curt and cute, but mostly, because that's what I've always seen it as and know I need to learn more about it, as I've concerned myself with other studies for much of my life and need to expand my horizons.
My own brain and interactions with my peers. Frankly, most scientists, including myself, don't have a very good handle of this sort of thing. History in my line of work are fossils and molecular clocks. I don't need to deal with opinions and biases and interpolations and conflicting accounts - I want to learn how historians do.
A swift kick in the nuts, followed by a willingness to consider what was said.
Well, I think I gave as generic an answer as possible, but I'd wager the answer will range from people saying history is written by the "winners" and is generally greatly biased by opinion and culture to those who say it is a tool for twisting and justifying current agendas to those who say it is simply a pure and noble pursuit of the truth.
To expand my understanding of a subject I'm not nearly as versed in as I should be.
It's both. There are some accurate historical accounts and places and figures in the Bible, but it is backset against a mythical, fictional tale - sort of like how Charles Dickens included actual people and places in his fictional stories.
Anywhere from literal truth to total fiction.
To be enlightened.
Carrier, Price, Wells.
Their books and online and magazine articles.
Looking forward to it, Rook. Ag1 !
I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins
If you love God, burn a church! - Jello Biafra
“Fear is just another word for ignorance. - Hunter S. Thompson
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: Lunar Shadow
1. Please complete the following statement: History is the scholorly study of past events
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did? it seemed to best suit it
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History? in my dealings with various historians of one stripe or another
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding? I would be open to hearing any case granted it wasn't fallacious or circular
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given? there are few that come to mind like Past events writen by the victors of wars, the past, the study of past events. to name a few
6. Why did you register for this course? I have a passion for learning and want to add to my base of knowledge
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because... may have some historical elements but is not history
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)? I can only see 4 answers the one I gave the one opisite to what I gave and is or is not history
9. What are your expectations for this course? I am not certain but I do hope it will be a good experiance
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description? a bit but not too much just enought to know who a few of them are.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Thanks for this oppurtunity Rook you work in this manner is much appriciated
(now if only I could spell right or if this board has a spell check)
Operation Spread Eagle, Kent Hovind, Creation Science, Evange
Man is the only animal in all of nature that cannot accept its own mortality.
PRE-COURSE SURVEY - ANSWERS
NAME: Mjhavok
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
Answer: History is the study of the past.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Answer: Tried to put it simply. Commonly understood history is what has come before the present. It is also the study of what came before.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Answer: I can't think of where. Perhaps school. Things I have read.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
Answer: Depends what they where challenging it with.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
Answer: "The past"
Answer: Answer: "A quote like "history is written by the victor" lol
Answer: "Some joke about the teacher being really old"
Answer: Did you mean a school classroom?
6. Why did you register for this course?
Answer: It is one of my weaker subjects and I try and learn about everything, even a little, even if it isn't my area of interest.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
Answer: A bunch of the people who wrote it most likely had neurosyphilis or a tumour?
Answer: The bible is a big part of the study of histroy because it has influenced a lot.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
Answer: I like to make fun of peoples answers not think of them lol.
Answer: Seriously. Some people may point out inaccurices in the bible or contradictions or say It isn't written as a history textbook really.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
Answer: Minimal (that says nothing about you). I just hope to learn about something I know little of.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Answer: I have heard and read a little about Caesar and Josephus but for the most part no.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Answer: See answer 10.a.
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. "
- Carl Sagan
"Tantum eruditi sunt liberi"
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the
jasonhoblin (Jason Hoblin)
The record of people, places and events of the past.
Its my understanding of the definition of history.
School, people, the media.
Listen, evaluate, and respond.
a. study of the past;
b. repeatable;
c. boring;
d. how things came to be as they are.
To learn.
Trick question. The bible is has some historical data and genologies, while most of it is myth and folk lore.
a. is
b. is not
Learn about the study of history and its methods. Develop informed responces for historically inaccurate arguments.
No.
^jasonhoblin
PRE-COURSE SURVEY
NAME: jackal
1. Please complete the following statement:
History is... boring when it is just names, dates and locations of battles and reins. History is interesting when it examines the culture of different places and time periods, the "why"s of what happened instead of just the "what"s.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
It was the first thing that came to mind.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
I picked up the boring part in high school and the interesting part from the Art History class I took in college
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
Clearly, that person holds different interests than me.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
I think most people would give a more traditional, dictionary deffinition like, "History is the study of past events, people and places."
6. Why did you register for this course?
I hope to lean more about history relating to the claims of the Bible, Torah and Koran so that I may smite my idealogical enemies.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The parts of the Bible that are corroborated by other historic texts are history because they are supported by outside sources. The rest are not because they are not supported by outside sources.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
That depends on the setting of the classroom. In a school that is affiliated with fundamentalist Christians, the answer would be "yes, it's the word of God, so it must be true." In a school with a Communist affiliation, the answer would be "no, because it's just religious lies."
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect to get a critical look at what is history and what is not, with some examples that touch on events depicted in the Bible/Torah.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Not yet, but I have heard some of them speak in The God Who Wasn't There.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Philosophy and Politics
My Foster Kittens
Math/Science help: in Pittsburgh PA or Online
NAME:Helly.K
1. Please complete the following statement:
History is...information about any event from the past.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Because I think it's a good answer for your question.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
The definition of "history" is not an opinion. Did you mean something like, what influenced me to come up with the definition that I have for what history means? If that's what you meant to say, then my answer is "the dictionary" and logic.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would make sure that we are talking about the same thing, and then I would try to find out why we disagree.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
No idea, I guess something similar to what I answered.
6. Why did you register for this course?
I'm curious to see how the class works, plus the fact that I'm intrested in educating myself on the subject.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The bible is not history, instead I would say that the bible is part of history.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
I don't know, I would like to think is something along the lines of what I said, or better.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
I expect the class to be worth my time.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Not yet.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Now I have a couple of questions for you Rook, if that's ok.
a. If I don't want to take the test(s) that you mentioned in the description of the course, would I be kicked out of the class?
b. If I happen to miss a class, would I be allowed to attend the rest of the classes? and If the answer is yes, would I be able to get some sort of online summary of the class I missed, so that I can catch up and be prepared for the next class?
Thanks !
Helly
"Jesus -- the other white Moses" - Me.
Supergravity
...the study of past people, places, and events.
I answered Question 1 as I did because it is a simple explanation of what history is, without getting into details about the differences between what people assume happened in the past, what acutally happened in the past, and what we can deduce from available preserved sources.
Exposure to history courses in college, recreational reading.
I am open to new ways to look at history, whether to challenge the definition I have or to expand it.
Many people would refuse to believe that what they had been taught previously might be incorrect, or that there may be more to a historical situation than they were previously aware of. Some would accept the challenge as a means for growth.
I have had an interest in ancient history for most of my life, though I have not explored this area as much as I would have liked. This seems like an excellent opportunity to expand my knowledge in this area.
...though it is old, and hence 'historical', it is not an actual history. Too much of it's contents are obviously non-historical to make it in any way a reliable book of 'history'.
Some students would claim that the bible was a complete true history. Some would claim that it had historical aspects. Some would claim it was largely a-historical, but had historical events inserted to make it more believeable.
I expect to come away with a much deeper and more through understanding of the classical world.
Ceasar, Wells, Carrier
Ceasar - part of a Latin IV project in High School was to translate portions of the Gallic Wars.
Wells - only his fiction
Carrier - I read his blog
1. Please complete the following statement: History is an account by an individual or group of past events. History is also the events that have happened that not only drove these individuals or groups to chronicle them, but have formed our current lives : cause and effect.
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
Because that is what I see as the illustration of history
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
No where in particular. The conclusion was drawn by observation and analyzing.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
I would appreciate the opinion and challenge myself to see their perspective.
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
History:
#1 Something that happened in the past
#2 Something that through a specific individuals eyes can't possibly be true as everyone sees in a different perspective
6. Why did you register for this course?
I feel that I am lacking a sufficient understanding of the history of the world.
7. Answer the following question:
The Bible IS history because it depicts certain cultural methods and customs.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
#1 No because the bible is gods word, the living word, not in the past in the now.
#2 No because if you accept parts of the bible as truth then the other parts must be true too.
#3 Yes because the bible is gods word and accounts for all the history of that that time.
#4 No because there have been so many re-writes over the years it couldn't possibly be accurate as a historic text.
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To help make connections with bits and pieces of historical information that I have gathered over the years. I want to create a timeline in my head to gain better understanding and clarity on those bits and pieces.
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Richard Carrier.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
Only a very small report regarding the cannonization of the new testament.
Enrollment will close (as will this thread) on Tuesday, June 5th at 3:55pm EST.
"Tell you once you had better listen because tell you twice and I have spent one more breath closer to death. ."
[mod edit: extra posting]
"Tell you once you had better listen because tell you twice and I have spent one more breath closer to death. ."
NAME: Teresa Nichols
1. Please complete the following statement: History is...
. . . mostly a lot of political propaganda about the past with facts, dates, and some real or mythological intrigue thrown in. It's only that which has been recorded about the past. We can make only some very educated guesses about pre-history (unless Sky Daddy "inspires" someone to write an addition to the Bible).
2. Why did you answer (1) like you did?
The history lessons that I have personally observed and recall from my own forty-some years tell me this. Also, I recall a university English prof who reminded us that history is all lies, and that's why he changed his major to Literature, which is often more truthful than history.
Speaking of Literature, I think Biblical history certainly demonstrates a good deal of bias, if not outright racism against various "out" groups. Much historical information, including the Bible, derives from the interpretations of the writers/storytellers; or from the mood of the emperor or king or high priest of the moment, which severely limited how information about then-current events would have been transmitted. This still applies to history-writing, even in democratic cultures.
Thankfully, there is more than one account of some historical events. The information is usually slanted towards the "winners" or cultural heroes or based on the patriotic, nationalistic status quo/zeitgeist, but not always. Sometimes, I suppose, the losers are lucky enough to be literate and to be able to write something down that is not destroyed by the "winners" of cultural or other wars, and/or the history is handed down through oral tradition until it's recorded. I think that's also how many historical legends are created - first by word of mouth, then in writing.
I specifically recall that a pharaoh had all records of a rival or of a defeat (or such) erased and/or destroyed. I don't recall how this has been verified by modern historians, but I remember reflecting how extremely time-consuming and exacting a task it must have been to remove carved, engraved cuneiform records from buildings and tablets all over Egypt.
Surely this kind of thing has been practiced more than a few times in the history of the world. Politicians and textbook writers can frame certain events in a more flattering, or even neutral, or just plain biased way than might be helpful to one's learning process.
3. Where have you picked up these opinions on History?
Literature, humanities and social science classes, history classes at the community college, public t.v., Public Radio; and definitely, blame the Unitarians
.
4. What would be your response if somebody were to challenge that understanding?
"Show me evidence that it's not so; show me how recorded history is all absolute truth." I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen, but I'm here to learn . . .
5. In the setting of a classroom, what would some of the range of answers to (1) that would be given?
It would depend on the maturity and knowledge level of the students. Everything from "boring" to what I said.
6. Why did you register for this course?
Because I am fairly ignorant and would like to change that.
7. Answer the following question: The Bible (is / is not) history because...
The Bible is history because much of history is lies, and because it meets a bit of the criteria that I unwittingly outlined for it above.
8. What sort of wide range of answers would be given in a classroom setting for (7)?
"The Bible is the absolute word of God and everything it says is true, so, of course its history is true."
"The Bible is complete balderdash. I won't even look at it for historical information."
"The Bible has some legitimate and important insights for historians about the ancient world, despite its bias, racism, genocidal instructives and crazy-quilt writing. In fact, perhaps because of those features, we can learn a great deal from it about the ancient world. . ."
9. What are your expectations for this course?
To learn something new, meet some like-minded people, open my mind to history; much of it has bored me; I hope not to be bored by it, but to come away thinking, "Wow! I wish I knew that before. Why did I find it so boring before?"
10a. Have you ever read any of the Historians in the course description?
Only excerpts here and there over the years; no in depth reading that I can recall.
10b. If so, what context (answer only if applicable):
God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist.
[mod edit: extra posting]
"Tell you once you had better listen because tell you twice and I have spent one more breath closer to death. ."
[mod edit: extra posting]
God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist.
[mod edit: extra posting]
God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist.
In regards to some of those questions:
If you miss a class or two, you're not going to get kicked out, nor will you get kicked out if you choose not to take the tests. However, the quizes guage your grade, and your grade guages whether you 'pass' or 'fail.' In other words, if you fail the course, you don't get the badge or the access to the private forum. It's a meritocracy basically, those who do the work get the bonuses. Anybody can listen to the classes, but if you don't enroll you won't have the opporunity to gain access to those features.
To Summarize: