Vaccinations cause autism

MattShizzle
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Vaccinations cause autism

This extremely irrational belief has caused quite a few child deaths so far, and there is no real evidence. Seriously, this belief is on par with UFOs, psychics and religion. Discuss....

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where the hell did that even

where the hell did that even come from?  That's the nuttiest thing I've heard since Bush got re-elected.

Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.


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Which vaccination?   Look

Which vaccination?

 

Look it up at the CDC.


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Wishkah311 wrote: where the

Wishkah311 wrote:
where the hell did that even come from? That's the nuttiest thing I've heard since Bush got re-elected.

 

I mean this in the most gentle way but I am guessing you do not have children (?)  This has been quite an issue for the past few years.  I have discussed it with my pediatrician and she has explained the numbers, et. al. to support vaccinations as well as the information against having them.  I don't remember all of the details but when I looked at the evidence there was no real reason not to get them vaccinated.  I do know a woman who is struggling with her now autistic son.  The autism started after the vaccination...if I remember correctly he began running a fever, etc.  He was showing no signs of autism prior to the vaccination.  I cannot say for sure if the events are related because sometimes crap just happens.  As far as I can tell, there just isn't enough evidence to link them.  I know there are links to the info but I haven't checked them in a while so I don't know the most updated available.


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Matt, Robert Kennedy has

Matt, Robert Kennedy has made the rounds with information about a possible correlation between autism and the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine.  While it's great to get children vaccinated, it's not great to use mercury to get the job done.

 We've been exporting our vaccines to China, and the cases of autism there went from nearly zero in 1950 to almost the exact same percentage rate here in the US by 2003.

Vaccines, good.  Autism, bad.  Shouldn't have to play flip a coin to see if you get both.

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Family_Guy wrote: Matt,

Family_Guy wrote:

Matt, Robert Kennedy has made the rounds with information about a possible correlation between autism and the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine. While it's great to get children vaccinated, it's not great to use mercury to get the job done.

We've been exporting our vaccines to China, and the cases of autism there went from nearly zero in 1950 to almost the exact same percentage rate here in the US by 2003.

Vaccines, good. Autism, bad. Shouldn't have to play flip a coin to see if you get both.

Well, what else happened in China since 1950? Rapid and unchecked industrialization! What's another thing that causes  mercury to get into our food and water? Industrialization, especially if it's rapid and unchecked. So, there's another possibility.


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Also the ability to detect

Also the ability to detect autism has gone way up. By saying because a kid was diagnosed as autistic after getting a vaccination you are committing the same logical fallacy as the primitives who assume that their beating of drums caused the eclipse to end (post hoc ergo propter hoc.)

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jce wrote: Wishkah311

jce wrote:

Wishkah311 wrote:
where the hell did that even come from? That's the nuttiest thing I've heard since Bush got re-elected.

 

I mean this in the most gentle way but I am guessing you do not have children (?) This has been quite an issue for the past few years. I have discussed it with my pediatrician and she has explained the numbers, et. al. to support vaccinations as well as the information against having them. I don't remember all of the details but when I looked at the evidence there was no real reason not to get them vaccinated. I do know a woman who is struggling with her now autistic son. The autism started after the vaccination...if I remember correctly he began running a fever, etc. He was showing no signs of autism prior to the vaccination. I cannot say for sure if the events are related because sometimes crap just happens. As far as I can tell, there just isn't enough evidence to link them. I know there are links to the info but I haven't checked them in a while so I don't know the most updated available.

 I completely apologize... I had no idea this even was an issue... I've never heard of it... No I do not have kids... I just didn't realize this was a real problem.. I am very sorry.

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With no intent of

With no intent of disrespect, but this, coupled with the topic on pet food being poisoned by terrorists, really sounds like an "Only in America" kind of thing...

 

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i honestly don't know much

i honestly don't know much about the link between vaccinations and autism, but i have heard some other questionable reports, lately.

one study group was using a test to find autism in children as young as 2-3 years old. they simply sat in a room with child and said it's name. if the child doesn't look up or react to it's name being said (by a stranger), they considered it highly likely that the child is autistic.

personally, i've seen many, many children of that age who won't react to a stranger calling their name, and the last thing i would associate it with is autism. 

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Wishkah311 wrote: I

Wishkah311 wrote:
I completely apologize... I had no idea this even was an issue... I've never heard of it... No I do not have kids... I just didn't realize this was a real problem.. I am very sorry.

No need to apologize!  I just did not know how to phrase the question...if I did not have children, I would have never known about it either.  It seems as though it is one of those situations in which there were some cases reported with inconclusive evidence so naturally the general public kneejerked and the next thing you know there are rumors running all of the schools and internet touting it up to epidemic proportions.  I certainly would not say it is at urban legend level, but similar.  Ya know?  If you do decide to have children some day, be thankful that you are a skeptical, rational person because you will be astounded at the "advice" you get.  Oh it is all well-intended, but the majority of it is not sound at all.  Here is an example:  Do not let your baby sleep on its back, side or stomach..various "studies" support each of these statements individually.  Um, so what was I supposed to do?  Hang my children from the ceiling?  LOL


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It's trash science in the

It's trash science in the UK that caused a very large drop in vaccination. The guy who came up with it has largely been discredited and has withdrawn his statements

 

But what is more interestingly is science is seen so differently in the world

 

Abortion,stem cell research is almost a total non isssue in the western world outside the US

 

But the most of the world does have a total ban on GM food. Now I'm having a fair guess here that most Americans dont even know what GM food is :

Look it up, it proves one thing either most the world is nuts or the US is Smiling

 


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jce wrote: Wishkah311

jce wrote:

Wishkah311 wrote:
where the hell did that even come from? That's the nuttiest thing I've heard since Bush got re-elected.

 

I mean this in the most gentle way but I am guessing you do not have children (?) This has been quite an issue for the past few years. I have discussed it with my pediatrician and she has explained the numbers, et. al. to support vaccinations as well as the information against having them. I don't remember all of the details but when I looked at the evidence there was no real reason not to get them vaccinated. I do know a woman who is struggling with her now autistic son. The autism started after the vaccination...if I remember correctly he began running a fever, etc. He was showing no signs of autism prior to the vaccination. 

I'll probably have to step out in a minute, and check my notes, but for now, let me say:

I'm of two minds on this issue.

First, autism often begins with a regression... a 'normal' child experiences a sudden shift backwards, developmentally, from say, a '2 year old' to infancy, so it's not abnormal for this to happen.

Second, it's simply not plausible that a child would aquire autism in a week. I will present the neurological basis for this claim when I consult my notes.

HOWEVER

There is a stress diathesis model for autism, that holds that a genetic weakness, combined with an environmental stresser, may cause autism. So a vaccination may be a factor.

Off the top of my head, here is strong evidence for this claim.

Vaccinations began around  1938.

The first cases of autism in the world were reported around 1943.

These reports would be based on children observed around 1941-1943.

Mercury was present in these vaccinations. mecury is known to cause neurological damage.

It seems clear that we have a good inductive grounds for holding that autism was created, in part by environmental stressors.

Another strong indicator: autism was rare in the 40s, 50s and 60s.... it has become increasingly more common, just as our enviroment has increasing been more polluted.

By the way, one of the problematic chemicals is in plastic, the type of plastic used for baby bottles and baby toys.

Yes, you read that right. Crazy, right? Women were told to use bottles and as we became more affluent, we bought plastic toys for our children.... and these may be behind autism as well.

 

Anyway, I will return with my notes in a bit, for more info.... but at present, I'd say, it's not likely that the vaccine 'caused' autism, but it may have been a stressor that 'broke the camel's back'..... 

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Being a member of Quack

Being a member of Quack Watch, this topic caught my attention.

Here's a link that explores and refutes this claim:

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html

 

or you can go to the begining article on Autism:

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/immu00.html

 

The link between autism and vaccines only exists in the mind of the believer, pretty much like ghosts, UFO's and Jesus.

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Good article.

Good article.


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MattShizzle wrote: Also the

MattShizzle wrote:
Also the ability to detect autism has gone way up. By saying because a kid was diagnosed as autistic after getting a vaccination you are committing the same logical fallacy as the primitives who assume that their beating of drums caused the eclipse to end (post hoc ergo propter hoc.)

 

100% incorrect.

She stated in logical terms

 After A, B occured.

 Maybe B is related to A, maybe not but it deserves to be looked into.

I think that is a very logical way to look at things and I think comparing research into this area akin to believe those who encounter UFOs is one of the dumbest things I have read in a long time.

 That being said I have no opinion either way because I have not done enough research. 

 

Either way just because something is most likely NOT the cause of something that is no reason not to research it.

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mrjonno wrote: It's trash

mrjonno wrote:

It's trash science in the UK that caused a very large drop in vaccination. The guy who came up with it has largely been discredited and has withdrawn his statements

But what is more interestingly is science is seen so differently in the world

Abortion,stem cell research is almost a total non isssue in the western world outside the US

But the most of the world does have a total ban on GM food. Now I'm having a fair guess here that most Americans dont even know what GM food is :

Look it up, it proves one thing either most the world is nuts or the US is Smiling

 

2 things...USA has more abortions per capita than many if not all other nations.  Just throwing that out there.  I dont think there should be a ban on GM food. Id eat it.  All food we eat is GM and has been since we began farming.

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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It's been researched and

It's been researched and refuted. Just like psychics, etc. And still people believe it - and the sort of radio shows and such that promote this idea are the same ones that promote UFO's and such.

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I dont doubt it was refuted...

I know you from the site and while I dont like the way you express yourself I never known you to be a liar...that being said Ill accept that it was researched and refuted.

 

I was merely defending the posters logical progression.  She was not using the same thought process as a primative. 

 

One reason I hate religion is because they pontificate.  "I'm right, you're wrong" and they look down on others who dont agree.  You seem to have the same stance...I dont care if what someone believes is refuted if they are not trying to push it on me. (In fact as logical as I like to think of things Im sure Ive done something for luck in the past, I know it makes no sense but who cares).  To me live and letting live is as important if not more important than being right. 

 

Being right or more logical doesnt make you better and believe it or not it doesnt make you smarter...if you think it does make you smarter go to a Mensa meeting...you will see the worlds dumbest people with 130+ IQs lol.

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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Actually by refusing to get

Actually by refusing to get vaccinations for their kids they are hurting others - causing the spread of diseases otherwise easily kept in check.

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again....

I am not really defending the parents here (though I believe it is someones right to vaccinate or not vaccinate thier child) I am defending the posters logical thought process.

 

Like the HPV vaccine if I had a daughter I wouldnt want her to get it.

 

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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iluvc2h5oh wrote: I am not

iluvc2h5oh wrote:

I am not really defending the parents here (though I believe it is someones right to vaccinate or not vaccinate thier child) I am defending the posters logical thought process.

Like the HPV vaccine if I had a daughter I wouldnt want her to get it.

That's a shame.  Not only would it probably protect your daughter, it would help stamp out the virus.

Massive vaccination campaigns is what helped stamp out smallpox.

Here's an article from the Mayo Clinic website.  Note the beginning of the third paragraph.

Smallpox is a contagious, disfiguring and often deadly disease caused by the variola virus. It's believed to have first appeared in northeastern Africa or south-central Asia nearly 12,000 years ago. Since then, few other illnesses have had such a profound effect on human health and history. In the 20th century alone, an estimated 300 million people died of smallpox.

The initial signs and symptoms of smallpox, which appear about two weeks after infection, resemble those of the flu: fever, fatigue and headache. Later, severe pus-filled blisters appear on the skin that eventually leave deep, pitted scars. Once symptoms develop, there's no effective treatment for smallpox and no known cure.

Naturally occurring smallpox was finally eradicated worldwide in the 1970s — the result of an unprecedented immunization campaign. But the virus didn't disappear entirely. Stocks of smallpox virus, set aside for research purposes, are officially stored in two high-security labs — one in the United States and one in Siberia. This has lead to concerns that smallpox someday may be used as a biological warfare agent.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/smallpox/DS00424 

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Susan wrote: iluvc2h5oh

Susan wrote:
iluvc2h5oh wrote:

I am not really defending the parents here (though I believe it is someones right to vaccinate or not vaccinate thier child) I am defending the posters logical thought process.

Like the HPV vaccine if I had a daughter I wouldnt want her to get it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a shame.  Not only would it probably protect your daughter, it would help stamp out the virus.

Massive vaccination campaigns is what helped stamp out smallpox.

Here's an article from the Mayo Clinic website.  Note the beginning of the third paragraph.

Smallpox is a contagious, disfiguring and often deadly disease caused by the variola virus. It's believed to have first appeared in northeastern Africa or south-central Asia nearly 12,000 years ago. Since then, few other illnesses have had such a profound effect on human health and history. In the 20th century alone, an estimated 300 million people died of smallpox.

The initial signs and symptoms of smallpox, which appear about two weeks after infection, resemble those of the flu: fever, fatigue and headache. Later, severe pus-filled blisters appear on the skin that eventually leave deep, pitted scars. Once symptoms develop, there's no effective treatment for smallpox and no known cure.

Naturally occurring smallpox was finally eradicated worldwide in the 1970s — the result of an unprecedented immunization campaign. But the virus didn't disappear entirely. Stocks of smallpox virus, set aside for research purposes, are officially stored in two high-security labs — one in the United States and one in Siberia. This has lead to concerns that smallpox someday may be used as a biological warfare agent.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/smallpox/DS00424 

 

I dont think it is a shame. 

 First and foremost they dont know the long term effects of the vaccine.

Most likely there are none but just makeing one point.

Also people die from reactions to vaccines often.

Again this is unlikely but still may happen.

Next, they are not vaccinating worldwide so there is 0% chance to stamp out a virus by vaccinating one country.

 Next 95% of HPV strains are not vaccinated for with the vaccine.

Next HPV is rarely deadly if properly screened for.

 

And smallpox was never as widespread at HPV is, I hear many different #s but everyone has the majority of adult women being infected.

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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iluvc2h5oh wrote: Like the

iluvc2h5oh wrote:

Like the HPV vaccine if I had a daughter I wouldnt want her to get it.

First and foremost they dont know the long term effects of the vaccine.

Most likely there are none but just makeing one point.

Also people die from reactions to vaccines often.

Again this is unlikely but still may happen.

Next, they are not vaccinating worldwide so there is 0% chance to stamp out a virus by vaccinating one country.

Next 95% of HPV strains are not vaccinated for with the vaccine.

Next HPV is rarely deadly if properly screened for.

 

And smallpox was never as widespread at HPV is, I hear many different #s but everyone has the majority of adult women being infected.

Just some information here.  I have HPV - the cancer causing kind.  I have to get tested every six months for abnormal cell growth.  When they found some, I got a biopsy.  Then I had a leep procedure.  Biopsies and LEEP procedures are extremely painful. (well they were for me).  While you are correct in that the vaccine doesn't get all strains of HPV.  It does get two that cause cancer.  While this HPV won't kill me, it will cause me to have cancer one day.  While the cancer won't necessarily kill me, it will cause me to have a hysterectomy.  I know women in their early twenties that are having hysterectomys because of HPV.  This vaccine can help prevent a woman from getting the virus.  Nothing else will.  It may not kill, but it will harm.  I wish I could have gotten the vaccine.  It might have prevented all this for me.

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iluvc2h5oh wrote: Also

iluvc2h5oh wrote:

Also people die from reactions to vaccines often.

 

Often?  Where are your sources with numbers for this? 

 

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Honestly here's what I

Honestly here's what I heard caused the hubub about the autism concern. I heard that in some states they were bringing back the use of Mercury as a preservative in some childhood vaccines. This caused an outpouring of fear due to the Autism it had cause before. But the FDA approved the new one because it had less concentrated doses and were regarded as safe, there were still worries because Mercury in large concentrations DOES cause neurological problems. and people did not want to risk it even if chances were minute; They wanted a different preservative so they protested.

 As for the HPV virus, there have been issues mainly by zealots concerning state enforced vaccinations, but the other issue is the age it should be administered because it is most effective when administered to a child ages 6-9 and it loses its effectiveness when a person becomes an adult, thus they can't take it later. It's an STD and we'll never know whether our 6 year old child will grow up to have safe sex practices and to give them the vaccine (at least in my opinion) voices our own mistrust of our kids. It also, to a lot of parents, is seen as intrusive. Those are some arguements, but if it means a possible crippling disease for my kids, I'm more than willing to throw these idiotic assumptions aside because like I said, you never know what your kid'll grow up to become.

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There are other negative

There are other negative reactions that can occur after vaccinating--autism isn't the only issue. Particularly when babies are given multiple vaccines right after birth, there can be other long lasting effects. Essentially, there just isn't enough data on some of the newer vaccines or the lumping together of multiple vaccinations and the effect on the immune system to completely disparage everybody who chooses to do things differently or attempt to research it on their own. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to do that in this particular area because it is so highly charged and often ridiculed. All in all, I wouldn't just go along with the status quo because somebody said it was stupid or akin to alien conspiracy theories. I would research it and do what I am comfortable with, especially considering that it is my child and not anybody else's.


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Here are some numbers...

http://prorev.com/2007/05/fda-files-reveal-three-deaths-371.htm

 

1 death would be too often for me to risk something I really dont see much benefit in.  This is being pushed to become a law so companies can force States to mass purchase the vaccine.  I stand by all my previous statements.

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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It is unfortunate that the

It is unfortunate that the vaccine has hurt people. But to say that one death is too many for you to risk seems to be a bit of a strong statement. Any drug can have adverse effects on anyone. How many people died because of an allergic reaction to penicillin or codeine? Everyone is allergic to something. I'm sure if you looked it up even tylenol has killed someone (and I'm not talking about the kind with aluminum in it). I'm just saying not to count it out right out of the box. Sure, do more research and pay attention to developments in the drug, but don't just count it out. Women deserve every chance to beat this disease. If that chance requires that I vaccinate my child (if I had one) then so be it. It is hard to watch a woman have to go through all this at 22 or younger. However, it is still the parents' decision. If the decision is informed and rationally come to, then that is the best we can do. Glad to see that people are at least interested enough in their child's well-being to do the research.

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Good point. If one person

Good point. If one person dies from the vaccine, but 50,000 survive who would have died without it because of the vaccine, obviously it makes sense to get it.

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kellym78 wrote: There are

kellym78 wrote:
There are other negative reactions that can occur after vaccinating--autism isn't the only issue. Particularly when babies are given multiple vaccines right after birth, there can be other long lasting effects. Essentially, there just isn't enough data on some of the newer vaccines or the lumping together of multiple vaccinations and the effect on the immune system to completely disparage everybody who chooses to do things differently or attempt to research it on their own. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to do that in this particular area because it is so highly charged and often ridiculed. All in all, I wouldn't just go along with the status quo because somebody said it was stupid or akin to alien conspiracy theories. I would research it and do what I am comfortable with, especially considering that it is my child and not anybody else's.

Yep, excellent points, Kelly. There are nearly as many reasons for parents to decide not to vaccinate as there are parents. My daughter is almost 16, and hasn't had any vaccinations since the last series they get when they're about 2. Since she was diagnosed with an autoimmune related disorder when she was three, I made a conscious (if not entirely rational) decision to refuse any further vaccinations because although there's no uncontestable evidence that introducing vaccines into her system are what tripped her immune system into hyperdrive and caused it to attack her muscle tissue as though it were an invader, there's also no evidence that it didn't.

This wasn't an issue until she was in 6th grade and the school district wanted proof that she'd been vaccinated against Hepatitis B. Hep B is spread through intimate contact and since I was quite sure she wasn't at risk, there was no way in hell I was going to take a chance that this one shot could put her into a flareup when her disease had been in remission for 3 years after the last year-long flareup. What annoyed the crap out of me was that in order to opt out, if I didn't claim a "philosophical" (i.e. religious) exemption, I'd have to get a doctor's note for a medical exemption, which would have to be renewed every year.

Isn't it interesting that "because the bible says so" is a more acceptable answer than "because there's evidence indicating that vaccinations may adversely affect those with autoimmune related disorders, and I don't want to take the chance with my child's health"? As luck would have it we live in California, where "philosophical" objections are enough... while researching my options, I found that in some states, opt-outs must be "religious" or medical, (and most often require documentation), period.

I'm still on the fence about vaccinations, mercury and the rise in autism diagnoses. I'm not entirely sure that it's not being overdiagnosed when I see kids that are really just, as we called them in the old days, BRATS - but their parents have gotten a diagnosis of "mild autism" so allow their little cretins to run amok. The difference between such children and the autistic kids I've known and cared for is vast. However, I think the same can be said for diagnoses of ADD and ADHD, or any number of physical/mental health issues these days. On the other hand, our exposure to chemicals and evidence that some of them are dangerous has also risen, so it's important to keep studying immunology and our responses to all of these new chemical and biological agents.

Good discussion Smiling

 


 

 

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On a bit of a tangent: I

On a bit of a tangent: I don't understand why a diagnosis of an illness isn't enough for some people.  My mother is 100% disabled because of mutliple sclerosis and a number of other illnesses.  As you know, MS is incurable.  Yet, the disability board gives her ten kinds of hell every year because she might not be disabled any more.  They need proof.  For her to be capable of not being on disability anymore would take a miracle or an advance in medicine that just isn't here yet.  You should be able to say to a school, "my kid has ____ and vaccines will hurt her."  That should be enough.  People piss me off.

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What I was saying isnt that...

1 death is too many in light of all the lives being saved. Im saying there is no proof that 1 life has been saved but there is proof of 1 death.

 

My son has vaccinations for M/M/R.  But he doesnt get the Flu vaccine and I wouldnt get my daughter an HPV vaccine.  There just isnt enough on the pro side for me with those.

 

And another side note to the other side notes, I dont think ADD and ADHD even exist.  Another ploy to sell drugs to kids.  ADD and ADHD (and if you have not heard of the newer one Adult Defiance Disorder) are due to numerous factors that include a fast paced society and bad parenting.  I dont think Drugs are really the answer to that...there is no long term study on the effects of those drugs on a still developing brain.  I think any parent that puts their child on drugs for these "mild" behavior disorders need to have their head examined.

 

But like you all should know, I am huge on individual rights soo.....until they are proved to be dangerous I dont think it should be illegal.

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I would say ADD and ADHD

I would say ADD and ADHD certainly do exist, though they are definitely overdiagnosed.


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I am pretty sure...

USA is the only country who recognizes ADD and ADHD...does anyone have proof or can condradict this?

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It's in the DSM IV - the

It's in the DSM IV - the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for mental illness, which is for the entire world. I have a degree in Psychology.

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BenfromCanada
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iluvc2h5oh wrote: USA is

iluvc2h5oh wrote:
USA is the only country who recognizes ADD and ADHD...does anyone have proof or can condradict this?
You're talking out of your arse. Canada diagnoses it.


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BenfromCanada

BenfromCanada wrote:
iluvc2h5oh wrote:
USA is the only country who recognizes ADD and ADHD...does anyone have proof or can condradict this?
You're talking out of your arse. Canada diagnoses it.

 

No goof, I asked if anyone could prove or disprove.  That being said I meant outside of North America (like Canada counts as a country).  But either way it is recognized worldwide though 90% of drugs sales to treat it are sold in the USA alone.  And I knew it was in the DSM IV but I didnt know if that was a global referance.

 

 I know many people recognize ADHD/ADD as real but there are also some PHDs who do not.

 

http://www.docdiller.com/article.php?sid=59

 http://www.giulemanidaibambini.org/consensus/consensus_en.html

Therefore, the thesis for the disease remains a mere hypothesis, and the use of terms like “disease” and “mental illness” are scientifically illegitimate at present. In the best of hypotheses, ADHD is a simple list of dysfunctional behaviours, and this is too little to identify a disease. The inadequate definition of these behaviour-symptoms from an operational point of view even makes it impossible to categorise ADHD clearly as a psychopathology. Based on the scientific results currently available, the diagnosis of ADHD risks being sustained mainly on economic grounds and not aimed at the real benefit of the child/patient.

 

Im leary about things that cant be proven but someone makes money off the sale of a cure.  They really dont know the long term effects of these drugs and I would not give them to my son based on a diagnosis from a teacher or school staff. Which happens in nearly all non-parent reported cases.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/461776_4

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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iluvc2h5oh wrote:   And

iluvc2h5oh wrote:
 

And another side note to the other side notes, I dont think ADD and ADHD even exist. Another ploy to sell drugs to kids. ADD and ADHD (and if you have not heard of the newer one Adult Defiance Disorder) are due to numerous factors that include a fast paced society and bad parenting.

Oh, they exist alright (although I agree with MattShizzle that they're being overdiagnosed). Until you've seen the difference in the behavior in a kid with ADHD between when he's medicated and when he's not, it's hard to imagine the difference it can make. I will add, however, that any parent who accepts a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD and then does nothing beyond giving their child drugs is heading for trouble; you have to be prepared to stay on top of things and work on the behavioral changes necessary to keep an affected kid on track. 

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I see it all day.   I

I see it all day.

 

I work with LD and ED children. I see children who need medication, that is a fact.  I am just saying just because you show all the symtoms of ADD/ADHD that does not mean you have ADD/ADHD there are a hundred other illnesses that have the same symtoms.

But it is possible to have symtoms of ADD/ADHD and it NOT be from biological reasons.  It could be do to improper teaching techniques in the school, Lack of home training, poor structure of program, or most common I would guess no expirience with proper behavior.

 

I have a 3 1/2 year old.  We never went through terrible 2's.  When we are out, he doent need to have his hand held to keep him from wandering off.  People are always amazed, "why isnt he touching stuff or throwing a fit when asking for candy" ect.  It is because I make sure I take the time to raise my child, I dont plop him in front of a TV when I have things to do...I wait until he is in bed to do those things.  I have never given in to a demand of his, I am the parent I make the rules and that is it.  There is no reason for a child to pout or throw a tantrum if he is 100% sure there is no chance the situation will change, but if you give in or weaken your stance just once they will remember that forever.  On top of that, I never yell at or strike my child...I think parents have to do these to things, that do more harm than good IMO, only when they have let the child have so much control over the situation that the parent only has these two tools left.  Nature has made you child eager to please you and fearful of you in a good way. My son is scared to death when I have to redirect his behavior, not because I will yell or hit him though...honestly I dont know what he is afraid of...maybe he has never seen me angry and wants to keep it that way, but I never remember having to tell him something 3 times.

 

Ok that is my ADD/ADHD parenting rant.

"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta


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I see it all day.

{mod edit: double post}


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safe

From what I've heard it was the lead in the vacines that was suppose to cause autism.  They eliminated it but autism has not dropped. Steve from the Skeptic's Guide to the universe has talked about it a few times. I believe it was in his last podcast. I would give that a listen to.

 

                 Thank's the Cap'n

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Welcome CaptSharkey! I see

Welcome CaptSharkey!

I see you've been a member for a little over a month and we're just now starting to hear from you.  Terrific!

When you get a minute, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversation, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourself.

 

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