Vaccinations cause autism
Posted on: April 25, 2007 - 10:42am
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Vaccinations cause autism
This extremely irrational belief has caused quite a few child deaths so far, and there is no real evidence. Seriously, this belief is on par with UFOs, psychics and religion. Discuss....
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where the hell did that even come from? That's the nuttiest thing I've heard since Bush got re-elected.
Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.
Which vaccination?
Look it up at the CDC.
I mean this in the most gentle way but I am guessing you do not have children (?) This has been quite an issue for the past few years. I have discussed it with my pediatrician and she has explained the numbers, et. al. to support vaccinations as well as the information against having them. I don't remember all of the details but when I looked at the evidence there was no real reason not to get them vaccinated. I do know a woman who is struggling with her now autistic son. The autism started after the vaccination...if I remember correctly he began running a fever, etc. He was showing no signs of autism prior to the vaccination. I cannot say for sure if the events are related because sometimes crap just happens. As far as I can tell, there just isn't enough evidence to link them. I know there are links to the info but I haven't checked them in a while so I don't know the most updated available.
Matt, Robert Kennedy has made the rounds with information about a possible correlation between autism and the Measles, Mumps and Rubella vaccine. While it's great to get children vaccinated, it's not great to use mercury to get the job done.
We've been exporting our vaccines to China, and the cases of autism there went from nearly zero in 1950 to almost the exact same percentage rate here in the US by 2003.
Vaccines, good. Autism, bad. Shouldn't have to play flip a coin to see if you get both.
"Like Fingerpainting 101, gimme no credit for having class; one thumb on the pulse of the nation, one thumb in your girlfriend's ass; written on, written off, some calling me a joke, I don't think that I'm a sellout but I do enjoy Coke."
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Also the ability to detect autism has gone way up. By saying because a kid was diagnosed as autistic after getting a vaccination you are committing the same logical fallacy as the primitives who assume that their beating of drums caused the eclipse to end (post hoc ergo propter hoc.)
I completely apologize... I had no idea this even was an issue... I've never heard of it... No I do not have kids... I just didn't realize this was a real problem.. I am very sorry.
Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.
With no intent of disrespect, but this, coupled with the topic on pet food being poisoned by terrorists, really sounds like an "Only in America" kind of thing...
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/
i honestly don't know much about the link between vaccinations and autism, but i have heard some other questionable reports, lately.
one study group was using a test to find autism in children as young as 2-3 years old. they simply sat in a room with child and said it's name. if the child doesn't look up or react to it's name being said (by a stranger), they considered it highly likely that the child is autistic.
personally, i've seen many, many children of that age who won't react to a stranger calling their name, and the last thing i would associate it with is autism.
www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens
No need to apologize! I just did not know how to phrase the question...if I did not have children, I would have never known about it either. It seems as though it is one of those situations in which there were some cases reported with inconclusive evidence so naturally the general public kneejerked and the next thing you know there are rumors running all of the schools and internet touting it up to epidemic proportions. I certainly would not say it is at urban legend level, but similar. Ya know? If you do decide to have children some day, be thankful that you are a skeptical, rational person because you will be astounded at the "advice" you get. Oh it is all well-intended, but the majority of it is not sound at all. Here is an example: Do not let your baby sleep on its back, side or stomach..various "studies" support each of these statements individually. Um, so what was I supposed to do? Hang my children from the ceiling? LOL
It's trash science in the UK that caused a very large drop in vaccination. The guy who came up with it has largely been discredited and has withdrawn his statements
But what is more interestingly is science is seen so differently in the world
Abortion,stem cell research is almost a total non isssue in the western world outside the US
But the most of the world does have a total ban on GM food. Now I'm having a fair guess here that most Americans dont even know what GM food is :
Look it up, it proves one thing either most the world is nuts or the US is
I'll probably have to step out in a minute, and check my notes, but for now, let me say:
I'm of two minds on this issue.
First, autism often begins with a regression... a 'normal' child experiences a sudden shift backwards, developmentally, from say, a '2 year old' to infancy, so it's not abnormal for this to happen.
Second, it's simply not plausible that a child would aquire autism in a week. I will present the neurological basis for this claim when I consult my notes.
HOWEVER
There is a stress diathesis model for autism, that holds that a genetic weakness, combined with an environmental stresser, may cause autism. So a vaccination may be a factor.
Off the top of my head, here is strong evidence for this claim.
Vaccinations began around 1938.
The first cases of autism in the world were reported around 1943.
These reports would be based on children observed around 1941-1943.
Mercury was present in these vaccinations. mecury is known to cause neurological damage.
It seems clear that we have a good inductive grounds for holding that autism was created, in part by environmental stressors.
Another strong indicator: autism was rare in the 40s, 50s and 60s.... it has become increasingly more common, just as our enviroment has increasing been more polluted.
By the way, one of the problematic chemicals is in plastic, the type of plastic used for baby bottles and baby toys.
Yes, you read that right. Crazy, right? Women were told to use bottles and as we became more affluent, we bought plastic toys for our children.... and these may be behind autism as well.
Anyway, I will return with my notes in a bit, for more info.... but at present, I'd say, it's not likely that the vaccine 'caused' autism, but it may have been a stressor that 'broke the camel's back'.....
Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates
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Being a member of Quack Watch, this topic caught my attention.
Here's a link that explores and refutes this claim:
http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html
or you can go to the begining article on Autism:
http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/immu00.html
The link between autism and vaccines only exists in the mind of the believer, pretty much like ghosts, UFO's and Jesus.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca
Good article.
100% incorrect.
She stated in logical terms
After A, B occured.
Maybe B is related to A, maybe not but it deserves to be looked into.
I think that is a very logical way to look at things and I think comparing research into this area akin to believe those who encounter UFOs is one of the dumbest things I have read in a long time.
That being said I have no opinion either way because I have not done enough research.
Either way just because something is most likely NOT the cause of something that is no reason not to research it.
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta
2 things...USA has more abortions per capita than many if not all other nations. Just throwing that out there. I dont think there should be a ban on GM food. Id eat it. All food we eat is GM and has been since we began farming.
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta
It's been researched and refuted. Just like psychics, etc. And still people believe it - and the sort of radio shows and such that promote this idea are the same ones that promote UFO's and such.
I know you from the site and while I dont like the way you express yourself I never known you to be a liar...that being said Ill accept that it was researched and refuted.
I was merely defending the posters logical progression. She was not using the same thought process as a primative.
One reason I hate religion is because they pontificate. "I'm right, you're wrong" and they look down on others who dont agree. You seem to have the same stance...I dont care if what someone believes is refuted if they are not trying to push it on me. (In fact as logical as I like to think of things Im sure Ive done something for luck in the past, I know it makes no sense but who cares). To me live and letting live is as important if not more important than being right.
Being right or more logical doesnt make you better and believe it or not it doesnt make you smarter...if you think it does make you smarter go to a Mensa meeting...you will see the worlds dumbest people with 130+ IQs lol.
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta
Actually by refusing to get vaccinations for their kids they are hurting others - causing the spread of diseases otherwise easily kept in check.
I am not really defending the parents here (though I believe it is someones right to vaccinate or not vaccinate thier child) I am defending the posters logical thought process.
Like the HPV vaccine if I had a daughter I wouldnt want her to get it.
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta
That's a shame. Not only would it probably protect your daughter, it would help stamp out the virus.
Massive vaccination campaigns is what helped stamp out smallpox.
Here's an article from the Mayo Clinic website. Note the beginning of the third paragraph.
Smallpox is a contagious, disfiguring and often deadly disease caused by the variola virus. It's believed to have first appeared in northeastern Africa or south-central Asia nearly 12,000 years ago. Since then, few other illnesses have had such a profound effect on human health and history. In the 20th century alone, an estimated 300 million people died of smallpox.
The initial signs and symptoms of smallpox, which appear about two weeks after infection, resemble those of the flu: fever, fatigue and headache. Later, severe pus-filled blisters appear on the skin that eventually leave deep, pitted scars. Once symptoms develop, there's no effective treatment for smallpox and no known cure.
Naturally occurring smallpox was finally eradicated worldwide in the 1970s — the result of an unprecedented immunization campaign. But the virus didn't disappear entirely. Stocks of smallpox virus, set aside for research purposes, are officially stored in two high-security labs — one in the United States and one in Siberia. This has lead to concerns that smallpox someday may be used as a biological warfare agent.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/smallpox/DS00424
Rational Responders - atheist, atheism, agnostic.
I dont think it is a shame.
First and foremost they dont know the long term effects of the vaccine.
Most likely there are none but just makeing one point.
Also people die from reactions to vaccines often.
Again this is unlikely but still may happen.
Next, they are not vaccinating worldwide so there is 0% chance to stamp out a virus by vaccinating one country.
Next 95% of HPV strains are not vaccinated for with the vaccine.
Next HPV is rarely deadly if properly screened for.
And smallpox was never as widespread at HPV is, I hear many different #s but everyone has the majority of adult women being infected.
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta
Just some information here. I have HPV - the cancer causing kind. I have to get tested every six months for abnormal cell growth. When they found some, I got a biopsy. Then I had a leep procedure. Biopsies and LEEP procedures are extremely painful. (well they were for me). While you are correct in that the vaccine doesn't get all strains of HPV. It does get two that cause cancer. While this HPV won't kill me, it will cause me to have cancer one day. While the cancer won't necessarily kill me, it will cause me to have a hysterectomy. I know women in their early twenties that are having hysterectomys because of HPV. This vaccine can help prevent a woman from getting the virus. Nothing else will. It may not kill, but it will harm. I wish I could have gotten the vaccine. It might have prevented all this for me.
Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots.
Often? Where are your sources with numbers for this?
Rational Responders - atheist, atheism, agnostic.
Honestly here's what I heard caused the hubub about the autism concern. I heard that in some states they were bringing back the use of Mercury as a preservative in some childhood vaccines. This caused an outpouring of fear due to the Autism it had cause before. But the FDA approved the new one because it had less concentrated doses and were regarded as safe, there were still worries because Mercury in large concentrations DOES cause neurological problems. and people did not want to risk it even if chances were minute; They wanted a different preservative so they protested.
As for the HPV virus, there have been issues mainly by zealots concerning state enforced vaccinations, but the other issue is the age it should be administered because it is most effective when administered to a child ages 6-9 and it loses its effectiveness when a person becomes an adult, thus they can't take it later. It's an STD and we'll never know whether our 6 year old child will grow up to have safe sex practices and to give them the vaccine (at least in my opinion) voices our own mistrust of our kids. It also, to a lot of parents, is seen as intrusive. Those are some arguements, but if it means a possible crippling disease for my kids, I'm more than willing to throw these idiotic assumptions aside because like I said, you never know what your kid'll grow up to become.
Just a thought.
Peace._____
There are other negative reactions that can occur after vaccinating--autism isn't the only issue. Particularly when babies are given multiple vaccines right after birth, there can be other long lasting effects. Essentially, there just isn't enough data on some of the newer vaccines or the lumping together of multiple vaccinations and the effect on the immune system to completely disparage everybody who chooses to do things differently or attempt to research it on their own. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to do that in this particular area because it is so highly charged and often ridiculed. All in all, I wouldn't just go along with the status quo because somebody said it was stupid or akin to alien conspiracy theories. I would research it and do what I am comfortable with, especially considering that it is my child and not anybody else's.
I've gots ta git B-to-tha-izzack ta plott'n mah nefarious pizzle ta destroy tha public image of atheists n bitchez.http://prorev.com/2007/05/fda-files-reveal-three-deaths-371.htm
1 death would be too often for me to risk something I really dont see much benefit in. This is being pushed to become a law so companies can force States to mass purchase the vaccine. I stand by all my previous statements.
"When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible, They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the Land and we had the Bible." - Jomo Kenyatta