Karma

MattShizzle
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Karma

I find the concept of Karma to be another irrational precept that, unfortunately, it seems most people here believe in. It's pretty much wishful thinking - the idea that somehow good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. The only way this is true is if you are nice to others, you are more likely to be liked. If you are nasty to others, you will probably be disliked. And, of course, if you behave badly enough you are likely to go to prison or be killed. Nothing supernatural about it.

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I have to agree with you. 

I have to agree with you.  It just makes the process of cause and effect seem a little more supernatural.  I honestly don't know a whole lot on karma, but my understanding is that your deeds will follow you onto into the next life you inhabit, or something like that.  In some aspects, it's the idea that you're accepting the consequences of your actions, rather than having a higher deity reward or punish you. 

Has anyone ever done any studies on karma, like they've done on prayer?  I'm curious to know.  I'll have to do a little research on that later.

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I have to agree with you.

[MOD EDIT - duplicate post deleted]


sumra
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According to Hindu

According to Hindu philosophy there are 8.4 million births out of which one is human.When you dont do good deeds in the human birth you go to hell whose conditions are similar to biblical hell and then after punishment you have to again pass through the cycle of 8.4 million births which includes different movable species as well as plants before getting human birth again.

 

This is explained in Garuda Purana. 


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Attempt number 3 at posting

Attempt number 3 at posting this reply. First attempt the site was down from a DDOS attack when I tried posting the reply itself, second attempt re-writing took long enough that I had to run outside for my bus before I was finished.

---------------------------------------------

It all depends on the extent to which they believe in Karma. If they're akin to a fundamentalist who gets attacked and is happy because it means they'll get something good and nature/life will get revenge on the attacker, something is seriously screwed up with this person. There is also a much more rational way in which Karma can be perceived, in the way that happened to me in my teens.

I was your stereotypical depressed/angsty teenager. Never saw anything good happening, depressed, unhappy. I had already turned away from religion by this stage but that was for reasons of the illogic, irrationality and hypocricy that was ingrained in Christianity as well as the bastardisation of it over time and its highly corrupt and power-mongering usage. It had nothing to do with my becoming this way and more importantly it had nothing what so ever to bringing me out of it. My father passing away in the middle of my depressed stage didn't exactly help either and just solidified the lack in faith I already had.

One night I was in the city with some friends watching a movie. As we left the cinema one of them noticed a necklace on the ground. She picked it up and asked if anybody wanted it. I said I'd take it and threw it in my pocket. The next morning I washed it off (it had been on the footpath in the CBD after all), repaired the one broken link and started wearing it simply because I liked the look of it. The necklace was a yin/yang necklace. One side was labelled yin, the other side was labelled yang.

I wasn't used to wearing a necklace so I'd notice the cold metal of it quite regularly against my skin. Because it was yin/yang, every time I noticed the cold metal it would remind me of the basic philosophy of good and evil in a constant struggle, neither being greater than the other, and both having a little of the other inside. Quite similar to Karma really. Then something happened. Because of the necklace reminding me of this philosophy so regularly, I started actually noticing the good things happening in my life.

That is why I had been depressed. For a long time I had been noticing the bad things happening in my life and feeling the effects of it, but I hadn't been noticing the good and just took them for granted. I now was noticing the good things and enjoying them. Within a day my life had turned around and I was on a steep improve.

I still wear the necklace today, but more of a reminder of my teenage years and the change. I didn't believe in karma back then and I still don't today. It was similar philosophy or concept though and a constant reminder of it that made me notice good things happening, and this is a way in which the concept of Karma can be good.

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Vandalizing Wikipedia is bad

Vandalizing Wikipedia is bad karma...
Doing stupid stuff on Slashdot is usually bad karma (unless it is funny, then it is nothing).

"What right have you to condemn a murderer if you assume him necessary to "God's plan"? What logic can command the return of stolen property, or the branding of a thief, if the Almighty decreed it?"
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Doing a DOS attack on this

Doing a DOS attack on this site should be bad Karma - tired of it happening every fucking day. Wish whoever did it would get a disease where their balls shrivel up, turn grenn and fall off.

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Garuda Purana is directly

Garuda Purana is directly from the mouth of God Vishnu. God Vishnu told this to his vehicle  Garuda(a small bird,like vulture). Who wrote it down is not known, as a bird was only listening.

In the 4th chapter of Garuda Purana Lord Vishnu, tells what kind of people goes to hell. Garuda Purana is recited at the death of a person and it takes 1 year to reach hell after death.

I am only giving some characterstics:

Those who despise places of pilgrimage, good men, good actions, teachers and Shining Ones; those who disparage the Puraṇas, the Vedas, the Mimasa, the Nyaya and the Vedanta;

The shudra(low caste people) who studies the letter of the Vedas, who drinks the milk of the tawny cow, who wears the sacred thread or consorts with Brahmiṇ(highest caste,born from the mouth of Brahma) women;

Who did not make gifts of black cows to Brahmins, nor perform the ceremonies for those who are in the upper body; having suffered great misery in it, go to the tree standing on its bank.

Those who, self-indulgent, do not worship Shiva, Hari, Surya(Sun), Gaṇesha, the wise, and the good teachers,--these certainly go to hell.

Those who do not feed the Brahmiṇ guests, who have come full of hope to the house, even though food is cooked;--these certainly go to hell.

Being tortured thus, men and women by thousands are baked in dreadful hells until the coming of the deluge.

Having eaten there their undecaying fruits they are born again. By order of Yama they return to the earth and become unmoving and other creatures:

Trees, bushes, plants, creepers, rocks and grasses, these are spoken of as unmoving; enveloped in great delusion,--

Insects, birds, animals and fish;--it is said that there are eighty-four hundred thousands of fates of birth-fates.

 

 


 


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sumra wrote: Garuda Purana

sumra wrote:

Garuda Purana is directly from the mouth of God Vishnu. God Vishnu told this to his vehicle Garuda(a small bird,like vulture). Who wrote it down is not known, as a bird was only listening.

In the 4th chapter of Garuda Purana Lord Vishnu, tells what kind of people goes to hell. Garuda Purana is recited at the death of a person and it takes 1 year to reach hell after death.

I am only giving some characterstics:

Those who despise places of pilgrimage, good men, good actions, teachers and Shining Ones; those who disparage the Puraṇas, the Vedas, the Mimasa, the Nyaya and the Vedanta;

The shudra(low caste people) who studies the letter of the Vedas, who drinks the milk of the tawny cow, who wears the sacred thread or consorts with Brahmiṇ(highest caste,born from the mouth of Brahma) women;

Who did not make gifts of black cows to Brahmins, nor perform the ceremonies for those who are in the upper body; having suffered great misery in it, go to the tree standing on its bank.

Those who, self-indulgent, do not worship Shiva, Hari, Surya(Sun), Gaṇesha, the wise, and the good teachers,--these certainly go to hell.

Those who do not feed the Brahmiṇ guests, who have come full of hope to the house, even though food is cooked;--these certainly go to hell.

Being tortured thus, men and women by thousands are baked in dreadful hells until the coming of the deluge.

Having eaten there their undecaying fruits they are born again. By order of Yama they return to the earth and become unmoving and other creatures:

Trees, bushes, plants, creepers, rocks and grasses, these are spoken of as unmoving; enveloped in great delusion,--

Insects, birds, animals and fish;--it is said that there are eighty-four hundred thousands of fates of birth-fates.

 

WTF?? 


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BGH wrote: WTF?? BGH,

BGH wrote:

WTF??

BGH, you took the words right out of my mouth. 


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sumra wrote:

sumra wrote:
Garuda Purana is directly from the mouth of God Vishnu. God Vishnu told this to his vehicle Garuda(a small bird,like vulture). Who wrote it do.......

 

Dungeons and Dragons??? I've never played it myself I guess.

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Susan wrote: BGH

Susan wrote:
BGH wrote:

WTF??

BGH, you took the words right out of my mouth.

It was just an extension on his/her/its initial post.

sumra wrote:
According to Hindu philosophy there are 8.4 million births out of which one is human.When you dont do good deeds in the human birth you go to hell whose conditions are similar to biblical hell and then after punishment you have to again pass through the cycle of 8.4 million births which includes different movable species as well as plants before getting human birth again.

  This is explained in Garuda Purana.

Unfortunately his initial post wasn't on the mark.  It is talking about Hinduism where as the OP is just talking about one aspect of this, the basic concept of good things happening to good people and vice versa, the OP wasn't touching the rest of Hinduism in the slightest.  It has unfortunately lead this thread off topic. 

 

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MattShizzle wrote: I find

MattShizzle wrote:
I find the concept of Karma to be another irrational precept that, unfortunately, it seems most people here believe in. It's pretty much wishful thinking - the idea that somehow good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. The only way this is true is if you are nice to others, you are more likely to be liked. If you are nasty to others, you will probably be disliked. And, of course, if you behave badly enough you are likely to go to prison or be killed. Nothing supernatural about it.

i don't think you understand karma very well.  that's a very simplistic, misconceived understanding of the concept.  

 

karma is spiritual baggage that you bring with you to the afterlife, be it good or bad.  it's simply a way for people to better understand the perceived importance of detachment from worldly things.  some religious sects even describe it as a glue or putty-type substance.  it's just symbolic.

 

to equate karma with the saying "what goes around comes around" doesn't really capture its essence.  it's a matter of detachment, not action or morals. 


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The idea of karma, as I see

The idea of karma, as I see it, is just fine UNTIL it is used as religious fuel.

From what I know, karma as a concept originally came from the desire to quantify social relationships and to explain certain social balance mechanisms (which we know to exist). It would be the same as "How much sympathy do you want?" "12 kilograms, please... would you accept 13 ounces of hatred in exchange?".

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Karma makes lucky people all

Karma makes lucky people all cocky.


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http://www.buddhanet.net/e-l

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm

 

According to Buddhism, this inequality is due not only to heredity, environment, "nature and nurture", but also to Karma. In other words, it is the result of our own past actions and our own present doings.

 

Pretty hard to call the bolded part irrational, as long as you remember to consider the entire human population. The fact is, however, that everyone must choose to be "good" on their own, there is no supernatural force guiding the wicked to punishment or the righteous to reward.

 

Edit:

As for Sumra's posts, reading this might clarify;

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/garuda-purana.htm

 

Hindu philosophy has changed a lot over the years.  I believe for the worse.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gpu/index.htm   Says;

Since this was written during the medieval era, it is possible that the writer of this text had contact with Christianity. Earlier Hindu texts do not elaborate about 'hell' and 'heaven,' at least not to this extent, and the subject is completely absent in the oldest texts.

 

Without having had contact with many Hindu's to discuss their beliefs, I really don't know how literally this is believed by most.  Considering the amount of allegory present in Hindu scripture, it's really hard to say. 


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But when they say past

But when they say past actions, they also mean past lives, don't they?
If so, what a lovely way of justifying inequities. If you're poor, it's because you were rich once and an asshole. If you're rich and have a huge dong, you must have done something right in the past. It's just another philosophical kludge.


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pariahjane wrote: I have

pariahjane wrote:

I have to agree with you. It just makes the process of cause and effect seem a little more supernatural. I honestly don't know a whole lot on karma, but my understanding is that your deeds will follow you onto into the next life you inhabit, or something like that. In some aspects, it's the idea that you're accepting the consequences of your actions, rather than having a higher deity reward or punish you.

Has anyone ever done any studies on karma, like they've done on prayer? I'm curious to know. I'll have to do a little research on that later.

 

That is exactly what Karma is.  I will admit that my studies into Buddhism have been limited, but most westerner's understanding of a guided process(getting "bad karma" and having something bad happen to you because of it, vice versa) is not at all like what Karma is supposed to be.

 

Karma is cause and effect.  Belief in rebirth or reincarnation has little to do with Karma, if only because there are no "rules" or "guidelines" or even beliefs about how reincarnation "works".  That is to say, believing that doing good things in this life will cause good things to happen to you in your next(or in any subsequent life), or that it will cause you to reincarnate as a certain kind of creature etc, is an irrational belief and completely baseless.

 If you wish to learn more, I encourage you to read  http://www.buddhanet.net

Monastic lifestyles of Buddhism are the only places where you will find rules and punishments.  The tenets of Buddhism do not state "Thou shalt not", but rather encourage one to say "I choose not to", not because there is a reward or a punishment, but simply because it is right.

 

There's a lot I could say on the subject, but you're better off reading online and in-fact trying to speak to local Buddhists(if you can find any).  Buddhists are not intolerant of any belief, and will encourage you to learn as much as you can about their beliefs.  They will not be interested in "converting" you to Buddhism, as there is no such thing. 


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magilum wrote: But when

magilum wrote:
But when they say past actions, they also mean past lives, don't they?
If so, what a lovely way of justifying inequities. If you're poor, it's because you were rich once and an asshole. If you're rich and have a huge dong, you must have done something right in the past. It's just another philosophical kludge.

 

It may be that past actions refers to past lives, but it also definately refers to the actions of ones current life.  If you do not believe in reincarnation, that does not make the concept of Karma invalid;  If it were, how do you explain simple things like being in a bad mood because you had a bad day at work and causing people around you to also be in a bad mood?

 

I'll say this as many times as I can;  Karma is not a guided supernatural process.  You don't get good things for being good, and bad things for being bad. 


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It may be that past actions

It may be that past actions refers to past lives, but it also definately refers to the actions of ones current life.  If you do not believe in reincarnation, that does not make the concept of Karma invalid;  If it were, how do you explain simple things like being in a bad mood because you had a bad day at work and causing people around you to also be in a bad mood?

Cause and effect, assuming I've expressed by mood in some perceptible way.

I'll say this as many times as I can;  Karma is not a guided supernatural process.  You don't get good things for being good, and bad things for being bad. 

Then is it still karma, or simply cause and effect without a need for loaded synonym to muck things up?


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MattShizzle wrote: I find

MattShizzle wrote:
I find the concept of Karma to be another irrational precept that, unfortunately, it seems most people here believe in. It's pretty much wishful thinking - the idea that somehow good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. The only way this is true is if you are nice to others, you are more likely to be liked. If you are nasty to others, you will probably be disliked. And, of course, if you behave badly enough you are likely to go to prison or be killed. Nothing supernatural about it.

I didn't think karma was necessarily supernatural, more of a moral philosophy. It's a kind of "you reap what you sow" idea. If you don't water the plants then consequently they won't grow and you won't have a crop. When people say "that's good karma" or "if you do that you'll have bad karma" they're not necessarily positing supernaturalism, more of a "even if you are too shortsighted to forsee the consequences of this action, it will catch up on you. It always does!"


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There is no such word as

There is no such word as "hindu" in any of the hindu scriptures. Hindu word is a recent invention and was given by the invaders. In persian it means chor/thief.

 

Hinduism is based on caste syatem.Thats what all the hindu scriptures glorify.Basically the inhabitants of Indian penisula are Aryans and the original inhabitants were Dravidians who are darker in color. Aryan invasion pushed them towards the southern part of India and also Sri Lanka.

 These Dravidians were made slaves and refered to as low caste people called Dalits.

The entire society is divided into four groups/varnas :

1)Brahmans(highest caste/priestly class, these are the ones who wrote all these scriptures, and it was not allowed for low caste people to read these scriptures, they are born from the mouth of Lord Brahma) 

2)Kshatriyas(ruling class/kings/warriors, born from the chest of Lord Brahma)

3)Vaishyas(business class, who earn their livelihood,born from the thigh of Lord Brahma)

4)Shudras(lowest class/untouchables, whose job is to serve all the above three classes). Now a days they are also known as Dalits.

In order to know how shudra/untouchables should be treated the holy hindu scripture  "Manu Smriti" said to be written by son of Lord Brahma should be read.

 Gandhi, father of Indian Nation gave Dalits more fancy name "Harijans", He was a staunch believer in Caste system and said it is for the betterment of society.

Gautam Buddha was born as Prince Siddartha in a Hindu family, in the second category Kshatriya and was a King. But he gave up everything and left his house.

Buddhism preached equality of all and it was a direct threat to hinduism's caste system. Buddhism was specially embraced by low caste people.

It spread far and wide, but when Shakaracharya became the head priest during ??(i can confirm the date), he massacred thousands of budhhist monks and their monastries, and they were forced to fled India. this is the reason that Buddhism born and flourished in India but now it is found in the neighbouring countries like Japan,Tibet,China.It is usually said that in India you wont find any old statue of Buddha that is not disfigured.

There is somewhat similar cult like Budhhism started by Mahavira known as Jainism.

In the Indian Constitution article 25 states "All jain,buddhists are Hindus".

 


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Lenin is a good example. He

Lenin is a good example. He mercilessly killed so many innocent people. But right after that... right when he let millions of people starve in an intentionally caused famine, he suddenly became crippled. He had all the money and all the power, but he couldn't enjoy it for long. He was bound to a wheel chair almost immediatly after the revolution (and he was totaly healthy before the revolution). He died an extremly slow and painfull death. And actually... if you look at any dictatator or mass murderer in the world, they all had similar faiths. Now you could say that's a coincidence or whatever. And that's fine... i respect whatever you may believe. But so should you. You shouldn't make fun of other peoples believe. You shouldn't say they are stuppid and stuff. I think it was Isaac Assimov who said "Violence and cursing is the last resort of the incapable" (or something to that)


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What do you say about

What do you say about Stepehen Hawkins?


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magilum wrote: It may be

magilum wrote:

It may be that past actions refers to past lives, but it also definately refers to the actions of ones current life. If you do not believe in reincarnation, that does not make the concept of Karma invalid; If it were, how do you explain simple things like being in a bad mood because you had a bad day at work and causing people around you to also be in a bad mood?

Cause and effect, assuming I've expressed by mood in some perceptible way.

I'll say this as many times as I can; Karma is not a guided supernatural process. You don't get good things for being good, and bad things for being bad.

Then is it still karma, or simply cause and effect without a need for loaded synonym to muck things up?

look up the etymology and definition of karma. it's really western society and wester ideas of punishment and reward which have "mucked things up"

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sumra wrote: There is no

sumra wrote:

There is no such word as "hindu" in any of the hindu scriptures. Hindu word is a recent invention and was given by the invaders. In persian it means chor/thief.

 

Hinduism is based on caste syatem.Thats what all the hindu scriptures glorify.Basically the inhabitants of Indian penisula are Aryans and the original inhabitants were Dravidians who are darker in color. Aryan invasion pushed them towards the southern part of India and also Sri Lanka.

These Dravidians were made slaves and refered to as low caste people called Dalits.

The entire society is divided into four groups/varnas :

1)Brahmans(highest caste/priestly class, these are the ones who wrote all these scriptures, and it was not allowed for low caste people to read these scriptures, they are born from the mouth of Lord Brahma)

2)Kshatriyas(ruling class/kings/warriors, born from the chest of Lord Brahma)

3)Vaishyas(business class, who earn their livelihood,born from the thigh of Lord Brahma)

4)Shudras(lowest class/untouchables, whose job is to serve all the above three classes). Now a days they are also known as Dalits.

In order to know how shudra/untouchables should be treated the holy hindu scripture "Manu Smriti" said to be written by son of Lord Brahma should be read.

Gandhi, father of Indian Nation gave Dalits more fancy name "Harijans", He was a staunch believer in Caste system and said it is for the betterment of society.

Gautam Buddha was born as Prince Siddartha in a Hindu family, in the second category Kshatriya and was a King. But he gave up everything and left his house.

Buddhism preached equality of all and it was a direct threat to hinduism's caste system. Buddhism was specially embraced by low caste people.

It spread far and wide, but when Shakaracharya became the head priest during ??(i can confirm the date), he massacred thousands of budhhist monks and their monastries, and they were forced to fled India. this is the reason that Buddhism born and flourished in India but now it is found in the neighbouring countries like Japan,Tibet,China.It is usually said that in India you wont find any old statue of Buddha that is not disfigured.

There is somewhat similar cult like Budhhism started by Mahavira known as Jainism.

In the Indian Constitution article 25 states "All jain,buddhists are Hindus".

 

the bhagavad gita is a good entry into 'hindu' metaphysics. when i think of hinduism, i think of it's intellectual history, and its most unifying aspect is not any deity, but of dharma and searching for truth. 

Ethics and aesthetics are one
-Wittgenstein


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Karma as it's original

Karma as it's original conception is definately flawed. I mean it's practically just heaven/limbo/hell but on earth.

I hear a lot of non-hindu everyday people use "karma" in a rather different way. As a "what goes around comes around", cosmic force that does good/bad things depending on your behaviour. Like the whole wiccan "3 times back" thing. I'm amazed at how many intelligent people I know believe this. i'm sure it makes it easier to cope, but quite honestly it's just wishful thinking. So Lenin died a long slow painful death? So, so did a baby last week. So did millions of not evil people. ANd I know a lot of really shitty people who have GREAT stuff happen to them.

It's just the feeling of "that person was mean to me so something bad will eventually happen to them", and "i did a good thing today, so something good will happen to me". It's comforting.

On that note, if you are nice to people, they will usually be nice back, and if you are mean to people, someone will eventually do something rotten right back at ya. Maybe that's where tha belief originally came from...  

 


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GlamourKat wrote: Karma as

GlamourKat wrote:

Karma as it's original conception is definately flawed. I mean it's practically just heaven/limbo/hell but on earth.

source? 

GlamourKat wrote:

 

On that note, if you are nice to people, they will usually be nice back, and if you are mean to people, someone will eventually do something rotten right back at ya. Maybe that's where tha belief originally came from...

 

?? do you know or not?

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Bhagwad Gita is a part of

Bhagwad Gita is a part of entire hindu epic Mahabharat.

 Bhagvad Gita is the sermon that Lord Krishna gave to Pandavs(whose charoteer Krishna was) in the battle field of Kurushetra to make them fight against their brothers kauravs.

It contains some good verses but its main character is Krishna who says I am the incarnation of Vishnu and when sins start taking place in abundance then Vishnu takes birth. 


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essentially, the gita 

essentially, the gita  outlines dharma ethics. the circumstances and characters,  even who krishna is, are secondary.

Ethics and aesthetics are one
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mouse wrote: source? A

mouse wrote:

source?

A random source...... http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/lexicon/#karma

karma


"Action," "deed." One of the most important principles in Hindu thought, karma refers to 1) any act or deed; 2) the principle of cause and effect; 3) a consequence or "fruit of action" (karmaphala) or "after effect" (uttaraphala), which sooner or later returns upon the doer. What we sow, we shall reap in this or future lives. Selfish, hateful acts (papakarma or kukarma) will bring suffering. Benevolent actions (punyakarma or sukarma) will bring loving reactions. Karma is a neutral, self-perpetuating law of the inner cosmos, much as gravity is an impersonal law of the outer cosmos. In fact, it has been said that gravity is a small, external expression of the greater law of karma.

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http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/karma.html

Our present existence is the result of deeds performed by ourselves in previous existences. The body is an 'old deed'(S 12, 37, 3 II p. 65 - [1]), and to suffer means to endure kammic [karmic] effects, that is to lie on the bed one has made. Our future forms of existence are determined by our actions of today; we are now laying the foundations of our future 'fate'. Kamma [karma] in the view of Hinayana is a neutral law that admits no exception or interference, but of which, by acting accordingly, man can avail himself in order to obtain the rebirth wished for. No need to mention that even the happiest rebirth is not yet liberation.

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Pick any one, they all say much the same.

Christian: Bad=hell, neutral=limbo/purgatory, good=heaven

Hindu/Buddhist: Bad=badness/bad reincarnation, neutral=reincarnation AGAIN til you get it right, good=goodness/nirvana

mouse wrote:

?? do you know or not?

Do I know that when you're nice to people you get niceness back usually?

YES.

Do I know that when you're mean to people you get meaness back usually?

YES.

Do I know that these are the reason's people came up with the karma concept.

Nope, not a clue. And the reincarnation thing is wacked.


mouse
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the word karma is as

the word karma is as innocuous as Newton's third law of motion. It is descriptive, not proscriptive.

Ethics and aesthetics are one
-Wittgenstein


FreeThoughtMake...
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I've sat here and thought a

I've sat here and thought a bit before I responded and on gut feeling mostly I think thee is a thing as karma and it just seems like a natural thing to me but that als kind of conflict with another line of thought I have where w/e happens to you is going to anyway or is meant to know matter what, but what goes around comes around just doesn't seem irrational at or at least not much.

Quote:
Religion at BEST - is like a lift in your shoe. If you need it for a while, and it makes you walk straight and feel better - fine. But you don't need it forever, or you can become permanently disabled.

---George Carlin---


Largo
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I can't say I ever believed

I can't say I ever believed in karma (or my conception as a westerner of what that word meant), but I always liked the idea that there was some kind of universal justice. Wishful thinking? Of course. But it's easy to see why some people go from wishing to believing. When you look about you and see bad things happening to good people, and good things coming to bad people it's a bitter pill to swallow. Of course it's just how things are, but it would be nice to believe that things worked out for the best "somehow."
Possibly from my reading of Shogun long ago, in which the term "karma" appears frequently described in context as "fate," I took that to be its meaning generally. Looks like I was mistaken. But since I never accepted the idea of karma as rational in the first place, I don't suppose it matters. .
This life hasn't been all bad, but there have been periods of deep suffering for me, as I suppose there have for most people at some point in their lives.  I haven't been physically hurt, unless you consider obesity and its consequences a kind of physical suffering. Mostly my pain (happily now largely in the past) has come in the form of depression. But even at my lowest point, when I might have welcomed the relief of a view like karma or any other kind of universal justice, I realized that wishing just doesn't make it so. Anyway, if you did accept a karmic "system" you would still have the problem of "god." After all, doesn't a system presuppose a designer of the system? No point in going back to that old canard, especially since it took me so damned long to accept that I was an atheist.


kalachakra
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Karma

the supernatural view of Karma comes from "Hinduism" and Fad-Buddhism, not real Buddhism.
In real Buddhism "Karma" means "Consequences", that causes have effects and actions have consequences.
The two most frequent false assumptions made about real Buddhism are that we believe in supernatural karma and that we believe in a Buddha as a god.
actually, Buddhism explicitly teaches "Anatman" which means no-god. Buddhism teaches that there is no God, no creator, no supreme being, no supernatural beings or things of any kind.
People generally get the wrong impression from all the critters we use in our art. There are no gods so we feel free to use any kind of fictional form in our religious art that we fancy, and give them multiple arms to show multiple activity (we didn't have video back then!) and animal heads to make a visual point (like brave-as-a-lion or crazy-like-a-monkey or angry-as-an-ox). We also borrow characters from Hinduism which the "Hindu"s do belive in but we know aren't real.

often our Buddhist Karma runs over the Hindu's Dogma!


Mike Seth
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Just a quick factual

Just a quick factual correction.

Lenin didn't "suddenly" fall sick. He was shot (soviet propaganda liked to add with poisoned bullets, too), and the bullets in his body finished him soon after.