Why do Theists care about atheists??

RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Why do Theists care about atheists??

If God has a planned and works in mysterious ways then he must have planned atheism, right??


Great Dane
Posts: 8
Joined: 2007-02-26
User is offlineOffline
Just to set a few things

Just to set a few things straight:

Dylan wrote:

BACK TO EVOLUTION:

Let me think... Hm... ok... Evolution... correct me if I'm wrong...

I will. You are.

Quote:

started with a BIG BANG... good words for scientists by the way...

The Big Bang theory is astrophysics, more specifically physical cosmology. No relation to evolution.

Quote:

everything settled into what it is now... a sun in the middle... planets orbiting it... an asteroid belt... and moons orbiting the planets... all by coincidence...

The theories concerning the formation of suns and planets involve both astronomy, physics and other scientific disciplines. What it most certainly does not involve is evolution.

Besides that, the coincidence you mention is the same sort of coincidence that causes an object you drop to fall downwards.

Quote:

On our own little planet... we evolved... from unliving matter...

We evolved from other species. The process of life evolving from unliving matter is called abiogenesis. It has nothing to do with evolution.

Quote:

somehow gaining a conscience... ok...

Some of us have one. Others have none. If, however, you are talking about having a consciousness, you are finally touching upon something at least related to the theory of evolution, namely the gradual development of a brain sufficient to cause a human being to be self-aware.

 

All of your faulty assumptions regarding what constitutes evolution come straight out of the creationist handbook. Apparently it has become a favorite technique of theirs to label everything that speaks against a 6000 year old earth as "evolution".

 

The theory of evolution only addresses how life has developed into its present-day variety from a common ancestor - through small incremental changes and natural selection. It has nothing to do with explaining the beginning of the universe, formation of celestial objects or anything of the sort.

 

Edit: Typo fixed

Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God.

-Martin Luther


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
RationalSchema wrote: You

RationalSchema wrote:

You are wrong. Evolution and the Big Bang theory, although somewhat related are totally two different theories. We did not evolve from unliving matter, we evolved from single cell organisms that do not have a conscience. In case you were wondering that is what we are made up of. LIVING cells. A plant is alive, Correct??? Second we are made up of unliving matter such as hydrogen and oxygen. What do you think water and protien are??

Third you can't make assumption and yes I would like you to say that you don't know, because you don't fucking know. I don't claim to know everything and niether should you or any other man (hmmmmm, priests, rabbis, clerics all those fucking assholes).  This is why your arguments are circular, because you make shit up when you don't have an answer. Does that answer your questions!!

Finally, there are many questions of mine that you have not answered and I did answer your questions. Why don't you have these same skeptical questions about religion? Why don't you learn about the scientific method? In science it is up to the people who support the theory to provide evidence, not the people who are against the theory to provide evidence to the contrary. This is not the legal system. We don't go by "It is true until proven otherwise". It is false until proven otherwise. So show me the evidence for God!!

 

I am really starting to hate your attitude.

And yes I do know about my own religion. That request sounds like a weak little attempt to go ahead and get your way.

And did you not look where I said I did not have an answer for everything? Pay attention!

Our "SHIT" comes from experience and the Bible.

I have answered ALL your questions. Why don't you have the same skeptical questions about religion? It goes both ways!

You can't have the evidence for God! For one, you aren't a Christian. So you aren't his. You don't get your toy until you behave.


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Dylan

Dylan wrote:
RationalSchema wrote:

You are wrong. Evolution and the Big Bang theory, although somewhat related are totally two different theories. We did not evolve from unliving matter, we evolved from single cell organisms that do not have a conscience. In case you were wondering that is what we are made up of. LIVING cells. A plant is alive, Correct??? Second we are made up of unliving matter such as hydrogen and oxygen. What do you think water and protien are??

Third you can't make assumption and yes I would like you to say that you don't know, because you don't fucking know. I don't claim to know everything and niether should you or any other man (hmmmmm, priests, rabbis, clerics all those fucking assholes).  This is why your arguments are circular, because you make shit up when you don't have an answer. Does that answer your questions!!

Finally, there are many questions of mine that you have not answered and I did answer your questions. Why don't you have these same skeptical questions about religion? Why don't you learn about the scientific method? In science it is up to the people who support the theory to provide evidence, not the people who are against the theory to provide evidence to the contrary. This is not the legal system. We don't go by "It is true until proven otherwise". It is false until proven otherwise. So show me the evidence for God!!

 

I am really starting to hate your attitude.

And yes I do know about my own religion. That request sounds like a weak little attempt to go ahead and get your way.

And did you not look where I said I did not have an answer for everything? Pay attention!

Our "SHIT" comes from experience and the Bible.

I have answered ALL your questions. Why don't you have the same skeptical questions about religion? It goes both ways!

You can't have the evidence for God! For one, you aren't a Christian. So you aren't his. You don't get your toy until you behave.

Wow!! That really says alot about your mentality!!

You need to read what I wrote!! I never said anything about you knowing about your own religion.

2. You asked the question about you saying "I don't know". You never said that you don't know everything. Again, I think it is you who need to read your responses.

3. Experience and the bible over controlled experiments. That is why religion is irrational. Why is your experience any better than mine???

4. I am glad I am no longer a Christian.

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Dylan

Edit: Double Post

~GlamourKat 


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
1. I believe when you said

1. I believe when you said "Third you can't make assumption and yes I would like you to say that you don't know, because you don't fucking know," it means you said I don't know. That really says a lot about your mentality...

2. I believe when I said "The atheists are the irrational ones because you think we have an answer for everything. We obviously DON'T considering we don't know why God does what he does," it meant that I said I didn't have an answer for everything. Again, I think it is you who needs to pay attention.

3. Any thinking person knows that experience beats experiments. Tell me when you experience evolution. Oh wait, you can't because you would just say it is happening right now and since you believe it happens over thousands of years, you can't exactly prove it in a matter of minutes.

4. I think there's a reason for that.

 

P.S. So you don't believe in the Big Bang Theory? My before post (can't remember which one) can only be wrong if you don't believe in it. I can't be wrong if your only statement is that they are two different theories. I never said they were as one.


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
You are really making this

You are really making this too easy. I contemplated not responding, since it is like talking down to a 2nd grader.

In response to your P.S., here is what you wrote before!!

Dylan wrote-

Let me think... Hm... ok... Evolution... correct me if I'm wrong... started with a BIG BANG... good words for scientists by the way... everything settled into what it is now... a sun in the middle... planets orbiting it... an asteroid belt... and moons orbiting the planets... all by coincidence...

On our own little planet... we evolved... from unliving matter... somehow gaining a conscience... ok...

 

My response: I never implied i did not believe in the big bang theory!! Again read my posts!! I told you that evolution and the big bang theory are different and you clearly stated here that you think evolution started with a big bang!!! ARe you reading the same words that I am??? You asked to be corrected if you are wrong and yes you are WRONG!!!

 

I have no idea what your first point is trying to say, but let me clarify my point.

Since you don't know what God does, wants, needs, or how he behaves everything you say about him is an assumption or implied by your own personal beliefs and experiences. I stated that I would rather you say "I don't know" since you really don't know, it is just your own opinion.

In your second point you are generalizing that all atheists think that way about theists. I am glad you don't realize you have an answer to everything, but you are picking and choosing when god applies (i.e. the Tsunami and weather) based on your own opinion and what suits you. Are there any Theists who believe that he does control the weather??

Your third point about experience over experimentation is so laughable I am having trouble responding. The explanations and evidence against this are so overwhelming it is ridiculous. Therefore, I will refer you to readings in Social Psychology that focus on the minds ability to distort reality throught biases, illusions, heuristics, false memories and so forth. It is your subjective experience vs. mine. How is that valid. Experimentation places things in objective terms that can be varified by multiple sources across multiple contexts. You can educate yourself on this by simply reading a book in Research methods and design. Your experience can only be validated by you. So again my QUESTION FOR YOU "HOW IS YOUR EXPERIENCE MORE VALID THAN MINE?"

 

P.S. We do experience evolution. Ever hear of breeding, different skin colors in humans, different eye colors in humans.

Oh sorry, I guess God must have willed that!!

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
I am not wrong. The big

I am not wrong. The big bang happened first... EVERYTHING, to you guys, started with a big bang.

If the third point is so laughable, let me try to explain. The person who actually gets hit by a truck (experience) has a better knowledge of getting hit by a truck than a person who studies how a person gets hit by a truck (experiments.) Even if they have a dummy get hit with a safety padded car.

The fact that we have different eyes and skin colors does not justify your point of experience of evolution. This is called natural selection, which I believe does happen.

Also, as experience can be distorted, so can experiments. Experiments aren't proven right. They can only go with what they have.

You have no experience. You just go with what you think you know.


mouse
Posts: 129
Joined: 2007-02-21
User is offlineOffline
hi dylan, why do you think

hi dylan,

why do you think your experience is right, and others' is wrong? 


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Who the F are you to assume

Who the F are you to assume anything about me??? You know nothing of my experience and I don't assume to know anything about yours. What the F does going with what you think you know mean?? That makes no sense. How do you know God?? How do you know God exists?? How do you know anything?? I go somewhat on my experience of the world, but also on sound scientific knowledge and fact??

Question? Jane was once involved in anti-war protests during the vietnam war and was a strong advocate for women's rights. Jane is now a bank teller. Is Jane more likely to be a bank teller or a feminist bank teller??

Yes experiments are flawed, but they are far more objective than your personal experience. In regards to the gentlemen getting hit by a truck- He has knowledge of his experience of getting hit by that truck at that particular moment, not trucks in general. BTW that is the worst analogy to the argument between experimentation and experience. Just because you experience something does not make it valid (i.e., your experience of god does not make it generally valid to me, to everybody else, or the universe as a whole). The person who experiences cancer knows what that is like and will be somewhat educated on what cancer is and does. I am willing to bet the doctors and scientists know more about cancer than that person.

Again, in your mind's distortions you continue to generalize all atheists and scientists. "you guys" First, you should at least get the generalization and the theories right. BIG BANG and evolution are two different theories. Go read a fuckin book besides the bible and educate yourself. The world was not created in seven days. NOTE to Dylan: By indicating that someone else is wrong or incorrect does not mean that you are correct. THAT IS ILLOGICAL!! If you did read a book you would know that natural selection is part of evolutionary theory. I am just amazed at the crap that comes out of your mouth.

You still have not answered my question!!

WHY IS YOU EXPERIENCE ANY MORE VALID THAN MINE????????

WHY IS YOUR EXPERIENCE ANY MORE VALID THAN SOMEONE FROM ANOTHER RELIGION????

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Does someone who

Does someone who "experiences" that they are Napoleon understand the situation better than the Psychologists and psychiatrists dealing with them? What about someone who "experiences" alien abduction? Have you ever heard just how unreliable eyewitness testimony actually is?

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


BGH
BGH's picture
Posts: 2772
Joined: 2006-09-28
User is offlineOffline
Dylan, you just seem to be

Dylan, you just seem to be digging deeper and deeper into your misunderstanding of science, atheism, the world around you and even your own faith. As this discussion goes on you appear to be taking every counter point that someone makes as a personal affront to your character.

Trying reading what others have written and just responding, don't take it personal, and just respond to the arguements.


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
MY EXPERIENCE IS MORE VALID

MY EXPERIENCE IS MORE VALID BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO FUCKING EXPERIENCE. LOOK!!! AN ANSWER!

NATURAL SELECTION IS NOT EVOLUTION. THEY ARE SIMILAR AND GO WITH EACH OTHER, BUT THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME!

I FUCKING KNOW THAT THE BIG BANG THEORY AND EVOLUTION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THEORIES. HOWEVER, YOU BELIEVE IN THEM BOTH! BOTH! BOTH! BOTH!

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT THING ABOUT JANE?!?!?!

I RELY ON EXPERIENCE MORE THAN EXPERIMENTS. THINK ABOUT IT!!! ASK A PERSON WHO ACTUALLY GOT HIT BY A CAR. UH.... THEY WOULD GENERALLY NOT ADVISE IT. ASK SOME SCIENTIST WITH A FALSE EXPERIMENT. OH, YOU'LL BE FINE. NOTE: THAT IS A FAKE SCIENTIST. I KNOW YOU'RE NOT ALL THAT DUMB.

THE PERSON WHO EXPERIENCES CANCER KNOWS WHAT ITS LIKE TO GO THROUGH CANCER MORE THAN THE PERSON WHO STUDIES IT.

The person who is himself often knows himself better because he can dwell in his own mind. Other people can't.

You can't experience what you're talking about! ITS NOT POSSIBLE. You'd HAVE TO BE ALIVE FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS.

I'm GNOSTIC... THATS WHY I HAVE EXPERIENCE. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY, LOOK IT UP. I EXPERIENCE THE SPIRITUAL THROUGH ASTRAL TRAVEL.

TO RATIONALSCHEMA, I AM AMAZED AT THE CRAP THAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH.


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
According to you logic, How

According to you logic, How would you know anything about my experience?? Do you walk in my shoes? Do you think my thoughts??

That has to be the worst answer to my question. "Because you have no experience." You have to be kidding me. Give me your address so I can send you a dunce cap!! You come nowhere near answering my question and haven't explained why your experience is more valid than the 6 billion other people in the world.

Answer the question Jane??

I never said that doctors would know better the experience of cancer, I said that they know a hell of alot more about cancer!! Again, READ MY WORDS!!!

Dwelling in your own mind?? A mind that consistently fills in the blanks, has selective attention (you being a great case example!!), distorts information, and forms false memories. Great your relying on that!!

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


BGH
BGH's picture
Posts: 2772
Joined: 2006-09-28
User is offlineOffline
WOW, DYLAN!!! YOUR RESPONSE

WOW, DYLAN!!!

YOUR RESPONSE IN ALL CAPS SURE MADE YOUR POINTS WELL! I AM INFINETLY CONVINCED NOW!! I AM SURPRISED YOU DID NOT BOLD THE TEXT ALSO JUST MAKE IT AN IRREFUTABLE ARGUMENT. 

 Seriously Dylan, get over yourself. You are attacking others as if you are the only authority the topic of discussion. 

Astral travel??? That is your so-called experience? Really? That is what you want to base your life on? Give me a break... 

You are not the only one who has a position on this argument, state your points, give your reasons and quit getting so damned offended.

 


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
Ok, fine. I'll bold the

Ok, fine. I'll bold the letters this time.

I'll go with you RationalSchema, if you can tell me where your experience is. Have you lived for a million years? That's the only way you can gain actual experience. Well, experience that can prove anything. Sure, you can say it is happening right now, but I can't believe you. I don't see it happening. I answered your question. You just don't like my answer.

Oh and BGH, I'll try to realize RationalSchema is not insulting me when he says stuff like "give me your address so I can send you a dunce cap!" Or his last paragraph of his last post. I'll try to realize that what he's trying to say paints a bigger picture...

Did I say I base my life on Astral Travel? No.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Were you part of the moon

Were you part of the moon landing? Guess you don't believe it happened. Ever been to China? If not, I guess you don't believe it actually exists. Have you ever been to another galaxy? Do you believe they exist?

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Dylan, You still have not

Dylan, You still have not answered my questions!!!

There is the question about Jane.

You have not answered why your experience is any better or why experience is somehow better than objective evidence. Just because I don't experience evolution does not mean it is not true!! If you can't recognize that then I will have to send you a second dunce cap.

In regards to my insults, I think you insulted yourself more with your answer about your experience being more valid because somehow you know about my experience. Really, go back and read what you wrote.

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
Ok. I'm going to say this

Ok. I'm going to say this one more time. You have no experience. That's my answer. About evidence, you really don't have enough of that either. I'll say this right now so you don't go insane. Christians don't really have any. So I respect your decision with Atheism. Just learn to respect mine with Christianity.

Jane is whoever the hell she wants to be.

Regarding what you said, that is not an insult to myself. Tell me about your experience. Tell me how you lived for a million years and saw evolution take its process.

Of course it doesn't mean its fake. But it definitely doesn't help.

To MattShizzle:

What you are doing is asking random questions about completely unrelated topics. Moon landing? I personally don't know. China? Of course it exists. I can actually go to China. Another galaxy? I believe in those too. However, that could be Gnostic Christianity talking for me. Either way, I believe in aliens too. And?


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
I think we get your

I think we get your answer!! What you haven't answered is our questions about your answer!! We are saying your answer is terrible, makes no sense, and is downright awful. So, I asked you to elaborate on your answer and you can't. You can't tell me why your experience is better.

If you are implying that I have no experience of evolution because I have not lived for millions of years I agree with you. However, I need to remind you that you are the one who is making the argument that experience is more important that the scientific method, not me. I am saying that it doesn't matter that I don't experience it. That does not mean it is not supported by scientific evidence.

In regards to us not having evidence I am wondering what you mean. No evidence for what? If you mean no evidence for evolution you seriously need to do a reality check. If you believe this then you certainly are irrational and illogical.

If you are implying that atheists have as much evidence for the non-existance of God as you do for the existance of God you have a point. This is why we call it faith. Logically, faith is irrational. This is why creationism cannot be a science. It does not satisfy the criteria for falsifiability. It cannot be tested. You can't prove God exists and can't prove he doesn't. Therefore, it is not a valid theory because it is impossible to test. Given this, the most logical and reasonable thing to assume is that it does not exist. The same applies for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

Again, you have not answered any of my questions!! Not even the one about poor old Jane!

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
What is there to elaborate?

What is there to elaborate? You ask why my experience is better. I say its because you have no experience. You may have the scientific method, but no experience. You want me to reply to you saying that it makes no sense and is downright awful? I think it makes perfect sense. I don't think its awful. There, that's my elaboration.

You even agree with me in your second paragraph that you do not have experience.

State your evidence for evolution. You have good ideas and theories, but that's pretty much it. I want to hear it from you, where is the proof? I understand you have a lot of backing facts and experiments, though.

We do have Faith, and the last thing we want Christianity to be is a science. I, however, am also trying to experience the spiritual through my religion which is Gnostic Christianity. Though, as you might have noticed, I am trying to help Mainstream Christianity out on this part.

Seriously though, stop saying how I'm not answering your questions and ask them again. I already answered the one about Jane. If she still wants to be feminist, she can if she wants. She is who she wants to be.  


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Wow, wow and more

Wow, wow and more wow. You really believe that saying that I have no experience is a good answer?? My mind is really spinning.

I will stop saying that your not answering my questions when you answer them. Again, How do you know that I have no experience?? How the Fuck would you know anything about my life??? You have got to be kidding me with that response. Are you locked away in a shed somewhere?? Please tell me how your experience is so much better and how I can be educated with all the wisdom and knowledge you have gained by your experiences. Seriously, there must be something about your experience that I need to know!!

In regards to my response about agreeing with you: In this paragraph I am referring to me not being able to experience the major (because minor changes in evolution occur in my lifetime) evolutionary changes because the likelihood of me living past 100 is very slim. Of course I guess you have been living forever and have all the greatest experiences in the world.

Question? How do I have no experience? Am I alive? Obviously I exist so don't I have some type of experience??

You already answered your question about evolution. Yes, facts and scientific experiments. I will elaborate for you when you actually give me a decent response to my questions.

Please go back and read my question about Jane? Your missing the entire point to the question. Based on your previous posts, that is par for the course.

 

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
1. Yes, I believe that

1. Yes, I believe that saying you have no experience is a good answer. From your answer, I'm guessing a list of the answers you'd accept is a short one.

2. I know you have no experience because everybody has the inability to experience evolution through their lives that they can see going on.

3. I know only what is obvious to everyone about you. So I know you have no experience of evolution. Just as nobody does.

4. No, I am not locked away in a shed.

5. My experience is better than yours because you have none. You want to experience what I experience? Go to www.gnosticweb.com. They are starting courses soon teaching you how you can astral project.

6. I have not lived forever and I do not experience the greatest experiences in the world and of the world.

7. What you are referring to is Natural Selection. The minor changes an animal takes from birth to adapt to its environment.

8. If evolution was real, then you would have experience, but none that you could prove. The experience would be, of course, just you living.

9. And since you do not believe I can give you a decent answer to your questions, I'm guessing that means you will never elaborate.

10. Jane Jane Jane... she is more likely to be a bank teller that is feminist. However, she could still change her thinking. I don't know why she would, but its possible.

 

P.S. I have answered every single one of your questions. Even the one about the shed. Its your turn to elaborate about evolution. Tell me what the actual evidence is.

Tell me where I miss the point in previous points. I didn't miss the point about Jane. It was just a bad question.


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Boy is this going to be

Boy is this going to be fun.

Let me first remind you of our previous discussions with this little disclaimer: You believe that experience is the path to more truth where I believe that objective evidence (scientific evidence) is a better indicator of what is true.

I do not believe that my or your experience is any more valid or better than anyone elses. It is you that make these claims. Judging from the website, I am assuming that your practice the teachings and have had out of body experiences and may have had astral projections. I am also assuming that through practice of these exercises you believe that you coming closer to the divine and too god and that these are real experiences for you. Please correct me if these assumptions are incorrect.

In response to your assumption of me having no experience. By no experience I assume that you mean that I have not experienced what I mentioned above. You are assuming that I have not had deep levels of concentration, attention, connection, awareness, and consciousness. You assume that I have not had an inner experience of self-knowledge. My first rebuttul to this is that even if I have not, this does not make your experiences better, more truthful, or more valid. Only you can validate your experience, nobody else can do that for you.

However, I am amazed that somebody who claims to practice what is on your website is able to make so many assumptions and claims about somebody. I thought the whole idea behind the mantras, meditations and the concentration was to get rid of you human fallacies. These would include your biases, prejudices, stereotypes, and ASSUMPTIONS!!

Here is the kicker: I practice mindfulness meditation. Sometimes I meditate and other times I do Yoga. I focus my awareness in the present moment without judgement or bias. I experience what is going on in my world right know without the influence of my past experiences. I attempt not to label or name that experience, but just to let it be. I attempt to live my daily life in this manner making each experience fuller and richer. At times I have had moments of what felt like out of body experiences and what felt like I was in another room or place of existence. However, I did not label this experience. I do not claim it to be divine, heavenly, or transcendent. I feel the experience for the experience. To label this experience I am putting my human fallicies onto something. The gentleman on your website suggests that scientists cannot apply the rules of the third dimension to other dimensions. So why are you applying you human learned words, labels, and experiences to that dimension??

Also, I do not look down on others because they do not experience what I have experienced.  I recognize that each human experience is valid in it's own right, but may not actually be what is true or objective. I recognize that we are flawed beings. For example, you answered the question about Jane incorrectly because you were unable to get rid of your prior experience. You prior experience was reading about Jane being an activist and feminist in the 60's. This influenced your answer. You answer was biased. If I took away those words and asked the question "Is Jane more likely to be a bank teller or a feminist bank teller?" Obviously the answer is bank teller. Why?? Because the probability of somebody being a bank teller is larger than the number of already bank tellers who happen to be feminist. Feminist bank tellers are a small proportion of the larger group of bank tellers. Even if she was feminist you would still be right by choosing bank teller. Here your experience inhibited your logical and objective faculties. This was even an immediate experience, imagine what the experiences you have had that have been ingrained into your mind over time. For instance, Buddhists and HIndus practice something similar to what I am assuming your practice. However, you have different labels, terminology, and meaning behind what your practice. Why? Because you grew up in different cultures and learned these methods of relating to the world. Is your experience better then theirs?? Is it better because you claim to label it God, the divine? Who says it is God?? You, Dylan does. The same Dylan who let his prior experience influence his answer to a simple question. You are using your human imperfection, and past human experiences to label something that you claim scientists and others can't begin to understand.

If you read and follow quantum physics I think you may have some more scientific explanations for what you are experiencing. Yes, it does not completely point to what you are saying, but I think is is a more objective and verifiable of saying these experiences exist. I think it is better to let us be skeptical of the answers and work towards more objective and logical conclusions then just outright labeling these experiences something. Aside from lableling, what even makes it better? It sounds like you have not learned much since you think you are better and claim that those who have not had these experiences have not valid experiences.

As far as your evidence for evolution, do you want me to provide experiential evidence or objective evidence?

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
I am not saying you do not

I am not saying you do not have experience of deep levels of concentration, attention, connection, awareness, and consciousness. I am saying you do not have experience of evolution. Read what I wrote.

When you say that only I can validate my experience, you are correct.

I have not made one claim about you. Nobody can experience evolution. Therefore, you can't. Is saying the sky is blue an assumption? No, because its a fact. And its a fact that you can't experience evolution. Read what I wrote.

My biases, prejudices, stereotypes, and assumptions are none. I have not made a single assumption about you. I have just stated a fact that for some reason, you are taking personally. Read what I wrote.

Your kicker is nothing but a statement that you practice yoga and meditation. Of course, if you have noticed early on, that paragraph is useless because I never said you didn't experience that. Read what I wrote.

Why am I applying my human words, labels, and experiences to that dimension? Because I am human.

I do not look down on others because they don't experience what I experience, either. Did I ever say, "You're retarded because you don't get to do what I do!"? No, I have said "You don't." That is not looking down on anybody. Your thinking is irrational.

My answer was not biased about Jane. I took the information you gave me and gave you an answer. If you only asked "Is Jane more likely to be a bank teller or a feminist bank teller" I would in fact say Jane is more likely to be a bank teller. That answer would be in ignorance because I do not have the prior knowledge of her having been a feminist in the 60's. Your thinking is, yet again, irrational.

Let's talk about John. John was a republican in the 60's. Is John more likely to be a republican or something else?

Answer with the given knowledge: A republican.

Answer with ignorance about it saying he was a republican in the 60's: Something else.

Gee, I see some similarities with Jane!

Our terminology is different to the Buddhists and Hindus, but the meaning is the same. We all have our own versions of reality about the dimensions and Divine, but they all revolve around the same base. Its what we interpret them as. For instance, some Gnostics name our Higher Selves our Divine Fathers and Divine Mothers. Some call our Higher Selves just that. Higher Selves. They do the same thing.

Hahaha. My experience is probably the same as theirs. I call God the Most High. But God is what some people call Him. Look in the Bible, for instance. Other people can call Him whatever the hell they want. Like I said, I just like to call him the Most High. It really doesn't matter what you call him as long as its not insulting.

I used my human thought process to determine the question about Jane. Not human imperfections and fallacies. Its better to have all the information before you answer the question. It would have even been better if you said Jane was, at the current time, feminist. If I said she was a feminist bank teller then, would that be because of my imperfections and fallacies? I guess, according to you, it would.

You can only prove astral travel and OBEs for yourself. There is no point in trying to prove it scientifically. Did I ever say they couldn't understand it? You are putting words into my mouth. Read what I wrote. Not what you think I wrote.

I do not think I am better. I never said anybody didn't have experience of OBEs or the Divine. I said the experiences you can't experience are about evolution. Read what I wrote.

For the evidence on evolution, surprise me.


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Yes, Go back and read what

Yes, Go back and read what you wrote!! Read the question on Jane. It is exactly how you put yours about the republican. You were biased by the previous information about Jane that I presented. Then I asked the same question you did about John. You consistently said that your experience was better then mine and that it was better because you have no experience. You just said no experience and not until recently did you add evolution into the mix. You need to be more clear about what you are talking about when you write!! I cannot read your mind. When you just tell somebody they have no experience how the fuck would you take it??? Seriously man, you come back and say you don't say something and say you meant something else after your arguements are squashed.

How is reading what you wrote irrational. You said that your experience is better then mine!!! How would you not take that personally??

READ What I wrote!! When talking about the science of astral travel I referred to the gentleman on the website not YOU!!! My God, does somebody have to walk you through it!!

 

Let me re-explain the question about Jane so you get.

I present information about her being an activist and feminist in the sixties. I then ask you is she more likely to be a feminist bank teller or a bank teller. If you take away the previous information the clear answer, as you indicate, would be bank teller. You said feminist bank teller because you were influenced by the previous presented information that had nothing to do with the question. Therefore, your mind and experience baised you into the wrong answer. Similarly, your previous human experiences lends you to call your new astral experiences as being closer to God. If you were never taught about a God is this what you would call your experience??

I can't wait to see how you twist this one around??

I have to call it quits with you, because you obviously don't know how to communicate. You have consistently not stated your positions clearly and say you meant something after the fact.

 

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Dylan's Response!!MY

Dylan's Response!!

MY EXPERIENCE IS MORE VALID BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO FUCKING EXPERIENCE. LOOK!!! AN ANSWER!

Your words not mine??

How does this imply anything about evolution? Although I am assuming it does imply that your experience is better and greater!!

Look back over my response before your previous response. I consistently qualified with assumptions and then you come back at me as if I didn't know that I was making some assumptions.  

Please, I can't wait to hear your spin on this one.

Either your a master of spin or you don't know how to communicate.

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."


Dylan
Theist
Posts: 122
Joined: 2007-02-19
User is offlineOffline
Hahahaha!!! This is rich.

Hahahaha!!! This is rich. Oh my God, I had no idea that your persistence was because you don't pay attention! Do I really have to explain every single bit of information to you?

You need to pay attention! Over and over again, I have said that you have no experience because you can't experience evolution. I'm saying you have no experience on your beliefs! Do you get it now? I hope so, because I can't really explain it any better. Read what I wrote. No, wait. Read it again. Now read it again. Hopefully you get it now!

If you think my arguments are squashed, you are sorely mistaken. You just don't understand what you read!

You take this personally because you act rashly.

Your logic about Jane is, dare I say it, dumb. She IS more likely to be a feminist later if she was a feminist in the 60's. People rarely change those things. If you would rather have the wrong answer by not having all the information, be my guest. It sure hasn't stopped you in the rest of your comments.

Well, I reckon that when you astral, they will teach you about God. That's why people astral, RationalSchema. To learn.

On your second post. What happened to calling it quits? Hm... ?

The reason I did that in a yelling manner is because I stated it repeatedly before that, with the thing about evolution. You just didn't get it.

But you're right. I'm tired of listening to your dumb answers. Just like you're probably tired of stating them. This'll probably be my last post on this thread.


RationalSchema
RationalSchema's picture
Posts: 358
Joined: 2007-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Dylan wrote:     5. My

Dylan wrote:

 

 

5. My experience is better than yours because you have none. You want to experience what I experience? Go to www.gnosticweb.com. They are starting courses soon teaching you how you can astral project.

8. If evolution was real, then you would have experience, but none that you could prove. The experience would be, of course, just you living.

 

 

OH MY GOD. Above is what you wrote. You said your experience is better then mine becaus I have none and then you proceed to tell me where you get your experience. Any RATIONAL person would take what you said to mean that your experience is better then mine because your practice what is on the website. Where would I get the idea that you are saying yours is better then mine because I don't experience my own beliefs? (Which is a terrible argument and just has not relation to anything we discussed whatsoever). How would my nonexperience of evolution make yours better?? This does not make any fucking sense. This is the worst arguement and completely breakes all the basic rules of sensible logic. Again, you fail to recognize that I believe that objective evidence is closer to the truth then my or your experience.

 You did not make mention of the idea that yours is better better because I don't experience what I believe, evolution, until this last post. So how the Fuck would I know what your dumbass is talking about?? You only mentioned that yours is better and that I don't experience evolution. You mentioned these in different sentences. Why couldn't you come out and say what you said in the last entry? Answer: because you make shit up as you go along, which is called circular reasoning.

Again read what you wrote. Read how you said it. REad what sentences came after the other.

I will elaborate on Jane one more time:

This is a mathematical and logical question. This question is a basic psychology 101 principle that has been confirmed in numerous objective studies. I hope you agree that the feminist bank tellers are a very small portion of all the bank tellers in the world. I hope you agree with this, or else you need to recognize thos voices in your head aren't real. Therefore, the likelihood that jane is just a bank teller is more likely then her being a feminist bank teller. Why? because there are more fucking bank teller and feminist bank tellers are also bank tellers. How hard is this concept to grasp?? So by answering bank tellers you are always right 100% because there are more and feminist bank tellers are bank tellers. The prinicple hear is that the previous information you learned about Jane distorted your answer. The majority of humans do this, so you are not alone. If you did not know this previous, or experience the previous, information you would have answered logically. The reason I bring it up is to support my arguement that when you rely in your experience you have distortions and flaws in objective thinking. Another example. You learning about God and higher powers your entire life have influenced your perception of your astral experiences. If you never had a concept of a God or a supernatural being, you would not be labeling your experiences as such. Therefore, your previous experiences in life have caused you to be unobjective about your astral experiences. 

"Those who think they know don't know. Those that know they don't know, know."