Wiccan wife, suggestions for raising rational, non woo woo, kids

Mechanical Atheist
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Wiccan wife, suggestions for raising rational, non woo woo, kids

I am happily married to a Wiccan woman, wicked when pissed though.  Our oldest child, 10 y/o, has aspirations of being a Wiccan as he grows up, but our youngest child is 2 y/o and I would like to raise him in such a way that he will approach the natural world rationally and scientifically.  My wife is a strong beleiver in woo woo, she "knows" that homeopathy works, that ghosts exist, that psychic powers exist, and that magick works.  How can I try to keep my children rational; I even want to avoid teaching the youngest about the "reality" of Santa Claus, etc.

Suggestions?

Jerry the Mechanical Atheist

"Fundamentalists do not create; they destroy." Brian Trent.


Fish
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I think that practical

I think that practical examples are one of the most effective means of learning, especially for children.  Show them somehow that whatever spells your wife casts have no effect on reality whatsoever.

I think that the hardest part would be to show the irrationality of her beliefs without undermining her authority as a parent, which is equally important.

 That is to say, children often want to imitate their parents, so the fact that your older child says she wants to be a wiccan doesn't mean that she actually will be when she's an adult.

I guess what it all boils down to is that the best idea is just to make sure that both of your children have the best education that they possibly can.  That seems to be the most effective preventative for developing superstitious tendancies. 


inspectormustard
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Actually, the best thing I

Actually, the best thing I think you could do for them is get some books on illusion. A lot of the effects I learned in magic books and on dvds are a lot more interesting than all that ritual mumbojumbo. Let 'em get to know Derren Brown, P&T, James Randi, and all the other great magician/skeptics.

 

Derren Brown has done a lot of really interesting bits on homeopathic psychic junk. Here's one:

 

uU"


LosingStreak06
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I think you've already made

I think you've already made a big mistake: you put too much stock into the aspirations of a 10-year-old. I think I can safely say that none of my 10-year-old self's aspirations have come to fruition. Rationality isn't something that is kept, it is something that is grown. As for how to do that, the easiest answer is show them the world. Tell them how it works, to the best of your ability. Make them interested. The very best fuel for rationality and a scientific mind (as far as I can tell) is curiosity about the world. Also, a good idea would be to teach them about as many religions as possible. Don't teach them that any particular religion is wrong (or in your case, that all of them are), let them figure things out on their own.

The most important thing you have to remember is that rationality isn't something that can be indoctrinated - because rationality must inherently reject all indoctrination.


lester ballard
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By tone/example more than

By tone/example more than by argument.  Most of us (I suspect) have survived some not-fully-rational parental experience.

For children that young it's more important to have a nuturing & supportive home environment.  With or without myth is less critical; they'll become able to sort things out in due course.


CrimsonEdge
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The first thing you HAVE to

The first thing you HAVE to do, and I DO mean HAVE TO DO, is show her how absolutely obsurd homepathy is. This is ABSOLUTELY crucial to your childrens health and well being. In case you aren't sure on how absurd it all is... here's an example that is pretty freaking accurate.

In most homepathic medicine, it is 'distilled' so much that finding a molecule of aspirin, or any other kind of medication, is much like finding one specific single molecule of something in all the matter in the universe. In other words, all you are getting in that homeopathic cure is water. 


Mechanical Atheist
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But what happens, when a

But what happens, when a homeopathic "medicine" is purchased for my child, I chided her at the time, for a rash my son had developed.  He receives the "medicine" and it "works."  Of course, we had identified the source of the rash, the elastic on the diapers, but a post hoc rationalization happens.  He got the "medicine" (and stopped using the diapers) and the rash went away.  The "medicine" is credited and she says something to the effect that it doesn't matter that it is mostly water and other inane ingredients, but the medicine cleared the rash.  I tried reading the ingredients to her, but in spite of everything, except the water, being in the ppm range, she credits it as a success.

 A great podcast on homeopathy is done by the Quackcast by Marc Crislip, covering the scientific evidence, truly the lack thereof.

Jerry the Mechanical Atheist

"Fundamentalists do not create; they destroy." Brian Trent.


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I don't think I could deal

I don't think I could deal with a wife that believed in that stuff. I think you just need to keep in mind that parents have only so much of an effect on what a child might believe later in life.

What I suggest you do or any parent for that matter is to teach the child critical thinking in general. You don't need to apply it to the woo woo, doing so might backfire. The child could see the whole process of thinking critically as made to be against woo woo and thus they reject it. Also your wife would probably have an adverse reaction to the idea.

The idea is to give them the skills to think critically giving them the option of doing so. Later on they may or may not apply them, but that is the case for everyone on every subject.

 

The only negative I can see about this idea is your child openly arguing with those who act as though they have authority over the child. This could apply to you and your wife. I'm not a parent, but I know that parents need the child to accept their view point from time to time without much argument.

Your wife would probably have a bigger problem with this then you as the reward of putting out a critical mind out would probably seem more needed then the short term obedience.

 

I don't think this idea needs to be in student teacher format, but I don't think there are many books on it so I could be wrong. You could start off by when the child ask you why ask them why they are asking. I'd think the kid will either say "I don't know" or avoid it knowing that the why are you asking why is an old playground trick to get them to stop asking and keep answering.

If they say I don't know you could act confused about how they don't know the reasons for their actions. I'd think that would be an important component of using critical thinking. Know why you should use and that without know that you don't have reasons for actions something is probably wrong with the picture. Also it doesn't sound like you are really teaching them anything.

 

You could also do a reward approach. Say give them a couple of fallacies to memorize and test them on it rewarding them for correct answers.

 

These are just a few ideas I'm throwing around I'm not too sure how advanced a child could get or how advanced you'd want them to get.

Here is a thread about teaching logic in schools, kinda close. The problem I'm seeing is that people keep saying "They should be teaching logic and the world would be a better place." Well who is they? If they don't do it you should.