Man, that's fucked up.  

Lots of weird shit like that happened in churches where I grew up, particularly in Full Gospel churches.  They had some sort of weird monarchy set up within the congregation, and they ended up locking some folks in the church and flogging them.   

They should be in prison. That's so fucked up. I heard about this on the non-prophets podcast last night.

Obviously, this poor creature was sent to the wrong Bible camp. When I was fourteen, my Mother insisted I attend such a camp.  It was great!  It was a week long orgiastic, alcoholic saturnalia.  I learned more about how to sin in one week than I had previously ever imagined.  So, you roll the dice on these things.  LOL

Its weird that FOX News doesn't cover this kind of stuff.

Yeah the camp employees who participated in this dispicalbe act.  That's a high percentage of earnings going in their pockets.  Makes me wonder what possilb deplorable conditions the children are living in other than the obvious abuse.

You bring up a good point about their possibly claiming we won't understand, since we are atheists,   it's what they consider to be christian tough love.  Spare the rod spoil the child crap.  That scripture doesn't even fit into this since the girl didn't do anything wrong and even if she did this type of discipline is unacceptable.  They will most likely say the law is secular and doens't understand their biblical laws.  I bet the girl grows up to hate christianity now, at least I hope she does.

Without any kind of government oversight (thanks for that word couldn't think of it) these homegrown, faith based camps are a breeding ground for pedophiles and sadistic bastards IMO. 

I think it was abuse of authority and sadistic.  He chose ropes for a reason (Flowers)IMO.  They could use their religion as the excuse except it doesn't fly.  The girl just simply couldn't keep up during a running exercise and that has nothing to do with discipline, morality, unity and integrity.  I hope that is brought up in court.

 (bold I agree)

You remind me of those good little cathoic girls I have been told about LOL.  You were lucky there wasn't abusive authority figures there to torture you. 

If that is their excuse then I think the gov't or dyfs, child protection agencies should demand 24/7 video surveillance, surprise inspections, oversight and licensed regardless of how long the camp (course) operates.  The course for each individual child may be 11 weeks but the camp is still open for business that in itself should constitute regulation, oversight, licensing, inspected or whatever you want to call it. 

    No, i don't think people would say that unless it was some how justified in the bible, the disciple in the bible does state spare the rod spoil the child, and some take it to the next level of abuse. how much is to much and how much is to little? Doesn't really state it in the bible when it comes to this does it?

     So it is it much it's own fault as it is the person committing the horrendous acts. Christianity itself the religion which is founded on the bible, which uses the bible for it's moral compass, is at fault as well, as it is up to interpretation in these regards.

I get your point.  There are   fu*ked up asshats in any sect.  atheists and theists, etc.  Some people are just fuc**ed up.  But the fact is that this man is a pastor and I'm have no doubt the employee is a christian.  The article didn't say why the girl couldn't keep up during the running exercise, could be she was goofing off and they may have decided punishment was justified as the the old saying in the bible goes - spare the rod spoil the child. 

 I'm not sure if I am saying this analogy right but I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say.

Take two young boys one is disciplined by father by having favorite (whatever) taken away and grounded.

The other is disciplined with a strap and hit two -three times and then grounded. 

The two boys grow up the first disciplines his boy by taking away more of his favorite (whatever) and grounded longer - why because every generation of children become more braver than the generation before them so he reasons he must apply more strict punishment than was given to him.

The second boy grows up to use a strap but this time he figures two-three hits isn't enough he wasn't as bad as his son is now and grounds him longer than he was. 

Then it goes on from their grand children to the next generation and the next. Over time each (sparing the rod) becomes less and less spared and kind of morphs into something worse like oh say severe beating, dragging a child on the belly with a car, locking them up for days, months like animals, abuse - uncontrolled abuse.

See where I'm going with this?  That friggin scripture spare the rod spoil the child never indicated at what point the rod should stop.  It also never took into consideration the mentality of the parent - is the parent mentally ill, alcoholic, or just a cruel sadistic bastard or is the child mentally ill, behavior becoming worse from abuse in the first place, etc.  Christian people tell me common sense should let people know where to stop.  But it is the christians who don't really know where to stop, it is the christian biblical teachings that led to using physical punishment as a form of punishment instead of communication with the child in the first place.  So yes to some degree it is religion that has led people to believe this form of punishment is acceptable.  Also the fact that these religious camps are not placed under any guidelines whatsoever they are more likely to go to extremes.

Hmm why didn't the god protect the girl?  Why did the god say in the bible to stone a child to death when rebelling against parents? - a normal process of growing up.  Why did the god say to spare the rod and fail to set guidlines to the exact meaning of how much to spare so each generation wouldn't add on to it?

I'm sorry, this has what to do with some nutter abusing a child exactly? 

really? or would you use the opportunity to say "look, atheists are just as crazy as theists!" ? i believe this line of reasoning has come up, before. hmmmm.

 the god has as much to do with it as the fu**ing nutter.  This is a christian camp, a religous camp.  The nut case who did this and the Pastor run the camp according to the rules of their believed god.  You said you didn't think it has much to do with the god.  I think it does.  The god is real to them in their minds and has everything to do with how they choose to discipline children.  Had there not been any belief in a god they would use common sense and be properly educated as to how to properly discipline the children if/when needed.  Not pick and choose certain behavior from a book of babble to decide what is the best course of action.  They run the camp according to their religious beliefs, those beliefs come from their bible.  Had they asked questions about thier god they would know better.  It's not a god, it's the belief and blindly following the guidelines of the bible babble that make the god, that exists in thier mind, wrong.

No my assertion is that in their minds they are more rightly justified in their actions because of the approval from their bible. 

Your grasping at straws here.  The point is, and you should already know this, it's the violent chastisement they are taught from the bible.  The bible practically mandates abusive discipline.  Off the top of my head I suggest you read Psalms 137:9; Proverbs 20:30; 19:18; 22:15; 234:13-14; 13:24.  the point is that it doesn't have to literally be a rod, the rod is and or can be substituted with what is available or a preferred type of instrument used for what they call discipline.   I'm not saying atheist organizations/groups in the care of children are or would be lilly white but sheesh c'mon there sure as sheet would be much more oversight than there is with religious organizations/groups.  Without that oversight, regulations and the law watching over them - the sky is the limit (no pun intended) for them. 

I can think of a few that would give these people the idea that abuse was necessary.

Genesis 38:24And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

It's not dragging her behind a pickup or a chariot, but whoredom is punishable by burning.

This girl got off lightly. She got sent to a camp.:

Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Ooops. This one is reiterated in Leviticus

Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Hmmm. Just boys?

How to do it?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Hmmm. Still boys. It's hard out there for a pimp.

Ahhhh. Here we go. It is the parent's fault for being a sinner. This is just one of the godly bestowed curses for not doing the 'lord's' will:

Deuteronomy 28:32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine hand.

There's more child abuse in the old testament, but I know what you're thinking: "That's the OT. That's not jeeezzzuusss."

So be it. Let's see what the alleged saviour says:

Matthew 10:35-37 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Megalomaniacal much?

jesus gets mad at the Pharisees and scribes for not following the commandments including putting disobedient children to death.

Mark 7:9-10 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

BUT WAIT A MINUTE! The little fucker at 12 was disobedient to his earth parents and he didn't get dragged to the elders. jesus the hypocrite.

Luke 2:41 on. I'm not pasting that one.

Of course, we also learn the depth of this messiah's delusion when he recants all of those things and says:

Matthew 18:5-6 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Soooooo, what have we learned today?

1. Stone disobedient children.

2. Love jesus more than your family. There is some disagreement among experts about this because he says 'HATE' not 'LOVE LESS', but oh well you get the point. Right?

3. If you're a sinning parent then your kids get taken away. Regardless of whether or not your sin was against the children.

4. If you hurt a jesus freak kid then you'll wish a heavy rock was put on you and you were dropped in the ocean rather than facing punishment for it. (Is this another guaranteed way into hell? Beat up a christian brat? Nahhh. I'll stick with blasphemy.)

NOW, you may still be saying to yourselves that "christianity doesn't teach these things" and you'd be half right(in other words WRONG).

You can rationalize it all away by cherry-picking and I'm sure that is the going trend. However, the premise is there. People quote this book and use it as mantras for their everyday lives to be good little christians.

BTW

From: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/18992/love-demonstrated-ministries

"The trainees are taught Christian principles, leadership skills, discipline, teamwork and love for the community. To ensure that they don’t fall back into their old ways, each student is assigned a volunteer mentor who meets with the families three times in the next year."

"Some asked permission to accompany the last runners through the final 200 yards. Grabbing the panting runners by the hands, they pulled them to the finish.

In the early light of morning, a small smile crossed Flowers’ face, proud, no doubt, that the teamwork he’d been preaching had led to this."

WTF?

"During lunch, Blanca approached Flowers to ask about that afternoon’s duty. After a second’s glance, Flowers asked what was wrong. When she said she felt weak and dizzy, Flowers and other leaders laid hands on Blanca in prayer.

“He always knows when something is wrong,” Blanca later said of Flowers, as she ate chicken fried steak, green beans and corn. “Every time one of us feels bad, he prays for us. I know the Lord will heal me.”

Just in case we're curious(Me? No way. Curious? Skeptical? Nahh)

For more information about the Christian Boot Camp, call (210) 433-2740 or (210) 431-3CBC.

You're the one that's cherry picking.

Didn't Christ also say forgive? Let he without sin cast the first stone?

 I think the 'he without sin cast the first stone' pertains to discipline.

The guy deserves a swift kick in the teeth, hell I'll even start it off, but the point is he didn't do it because of Christianity.

If you think I condrticted myself with the phrase and the part where I kick him in the teeth, note I'm not Christian. 

Amen.

Pray for it or go hungry.

Patrician,

YOU asked for the "bit in the bible" concerning treatment of children and the christian ideal of 'justified' violence in the name of their 'god'.

It was given to you by brights and me.

In your signature, the first sentence is "Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right."

In the instance of the dragged girl, was her freedom of religious belief compromised in your opinion? 

I now must disagree with brights that you are 'grasping at straws' but rather SLAPPING them from the hand presenting them.

These people are sick! They should be put in mental institutes.

Patrician

Whatever. jesus must have left that out about the whole 'mutilation by van' thing. Oh well, another piece of christianity to despise is its lack of contemporaneous relevance.

Have you read any of the links posted? Did you read the story that I posted?

You're blaming a mental illness for Flowers' behavior and so am I. However, you seem more willing to blame the person than the cause for the man's apparent mental problems.

brights and I brought evidence to the discussion and you have summarily ignored it without anything more than base assertions that we're wrong.

I stand by my signature. I hate theism. I fully understand why as well. By evidence, witnessed, verified, or anecdotal, there are too many things wrong with it to justify any manufactured goodness worth tolerance.

People who plead for tolerance for religions seem to be the ones more willing to blame it on the person rather than look for the cause of the person's actions.

Earlier in this thread, I said that more arrests were needed. Included in that list are people that think these 'discipline camps' are good ideas and count themselves in the number who would defend the reprobates programmed by their religion to start them up to instill 'christian values' in unwilling children with miserable fucking parents supporting them.

(Edit for a spelling 'errer' lol) 

I find it ironic and nauseating that the Boot Camp was called "Love Demonstrated Ministries".

Try reading what is posted above, I didn't say secular camps haven't had abuse, no I asked a question see the bold.   The reason I pin pointed christianity and the christian boot camp is becuase the news is about a christian boot camp.  Noticed you didn't answer my question.

FIne I'll answer your question. Since there are very little atheist camps, I would say no.