Why procreate?

xkcd
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Why procreate?

Why do atheists procreate (keep in mind I am one)? I know that atheists are okay with their kids being worm food, and they want to experience the joy of parenthood and they want their kids to enjoy life with them, but still, why bother? The human race is going nowhere, so why bother continuing this hopeless tragic fucking species?

 

Our species is as good as dead, the only question is when the doomsday event will occur. And hey, if you have kids, they might be the lucky generation to experience said doomsday event! Yayyy!!!!! 


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I think it remains to be

I think it remains to be seen whether our species is as good as dead.

 I suppose an obvious answer is: if we (atheists) don't procreate, then who is going to carry on our fight? I absolutely intend to raise my two daughters as athiests.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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Love.  Just like anybody

Love.  Just like anybody else.

 I mean, what the hell?


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"I think it remains to be

"I think it remains to be seen whether our species is as good as dead."

 

Yes, all we have to do is cure biological death, then cure unnatural death, then find an infinite energy source, then invent a machine to use that infinite energy to maintain an environment forever, then invent a machine to prevent the universe from ever dying, and then prevent mankind from ever killing itself; oh, and prevent the next ice age, global warming, asteroids...

 

One day all life in the universe will die. And when it does, that'll be good in my mind- the tragedy of homo sapiens will be over. Never again will 'good' people suffer daily.  


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The Patrician wrote: Love.

The Patrician wrote:

Love. Just like anybody else.

I mean, what the hell?

 

There's no rational reason, in other words, just irrational emotion. Kids are just tamagotchi toys for adults.

 

ps: i'm not a troll, just a bitter young dude. 


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xkcd wrote: "I think it

xkcd wrote:

"I think it remains to be seen whether our species is as good as dead."

 

Yes, all we have to do is cure biological death, then cure unnatural death, then find an infinite energy source, then invent a machine to use that infinite energy to maintain an environment forever, then invent a machine to prevent the universe from ever dying, and then prevent mankind from ever killing itself; oh, and prevent the next ice age, global warming, asteroids...

 

One day all life in the universe will die. And when it does, that'll be good in my mind- the tragedy of homo sapiens will be over. Never again will 'good' people suffer daily.  

 

Wow, that is some serious nihilism there.  Considering the age of the planet and the amount of time that civilization has existed, I doubt that we are any great judge of what is to be.  Our biology tells us to procreate.  So, we do.  Regardless of what happens on the planet, people will continue in some form or another.  We are as infinitely adaptable as cockroaches.

As for the heat death of the universe, based on humanities learning curve to date, I should think that the species would surely have developed some greater understanding by then, should the species survive its infancy.  We are merely a species that has been too successful at first. 

Before we beat our breasts and gnash our teeth, let's see what astonishing developments will occur in the next century.  As for the suffering of people, I sincerely doubt that there are many who would take nonexistence over a bit of pain. 

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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Natural selection is the

Natural selection is the process by which favorable traits that are heritable become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable traits that are heritable become less common. Natural selection acts on the phenotype, or the observable characteristics of an organism, such that individuals with favorable phenotypes are more likely to survive and reproduce than those with less favorable phenotypes.

Apparently you weren't selected Tongue out.

Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs


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Nero wrote: xkcd

Nero wrote:
xkcd wrote:

"I think it remains to be seen whether our species is as good as dead."

 

Yes, all we have to do is cure biological death, then cure unnatural death, then find an infinite energy source, then invent a machine to use that infinite energy to maintain an environment forever, then invent a machine to prevent the universe from ever dying, and then prevent mankind from ever killing itself; oh, and prevent the next ice age, global warming, asteroids...

 

One day all life in the universe will die. And when it does, that'll be good in my mind- the tragedy of homo sapiens will be over. Never again will 'good' people suffer daily.

 

Wow, that is some serious nihilism there. Considering the age of the planet and the amount of time that civilization has existed, I doubt that we are any great judge of what is to be. Our biology tells us to procreate. So, we do. Regardless of what happens on the planet, people will continue in some form or another. We are as infinitely adaptable as cockroaches.

As for the heat death of the universe, based on humanities learning curve to date, I should think that the species would surely have developed some greater understanding by then, should the species survive its infancy. We are merely a species that has been too successful at first.

Before we beat our breasts and gnash our teeth, let's see what astonishing developments will occur in the next century. As for the suffering of people, I sincerely doubt that there are many who would take nonexistence over a bit of pain.

 

What many forget is that science has a 'cap' , a roof you hit and can't get any better. We'll hit it before we accomplish all that; not everything is possible with science, or ever will be.

 

And our species is getting dumber, not smarter and more scientific. Science is progressing, but mankind's smarts are not.

 

And any given day, a supervolcano could erupt and end the whole thing.

 

Face it folks- our species is just a brief tiny accident in a vast uncaring universe headed nowhere. Can we just admit that? Sheesh 


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xkcd wrote:   Yes, all we

xkcd wrote:

 

Yes, all we have to do is cure biological death, then cure unnatural death, then find an infinite energy source, then invent a machine to use that infinite energy to maintain an environment forever, then invent a machine to prevent the universe from ever dying, and then prevent mankind from ever killing itself; oh, and prevent the next ice age, global warming, asteroids...

 

One day all life in the universe will die. And when it does, that'll be good in my mind- the tragedy of homo sapiens will be over. Never again will 'good' people suffer daily.  

OK, bitter young dude. There's a difference between our species being "as good as dead" right now, and being as good as dead a billion years from now when our sun swells into a supergiant and swallows the planet, or 20 billion years from now when the universe collapses in on itself and consumes any other planets or galaxies we may have colonized by then. Your prognosis of the species seemed a bit more near-term.

Sounds like you just don't like kids. Which is fine.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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geirj wrote:

geirj wrote:
xkcd wrote:

 

Yes, all we have to do is cure biological death, then cure unnatural death, then find an infinite energy source, then invent a machine to use that infinite energy to maintain an environment forever, then invent a machine to prevent the universe from ever dying, and then prevent mankind from ever killing itself; oh, and prevent the next ice age, global warming, asteroids...

 

One day all life in the universe will die. And when it does, that'll be good in my mind- the tragedy of homo sapiens will be over. Never again will 'good' people suffer daily.

OK, bitter young dude. There's a difference between our species being "as good as dead" right now, and being as good as dead a billion years from now when our sun swells into a supergiant and swallows the planet, or 20 billion years from now when the universe collapses in on itself and consumes any other planets or galaxies we may have colonized by then. Your prognosis of the species seemed a bit more near-term.

Sounds like you just don't like kids. Which is fine.

 

Since our species will die eventually as you admit, why not let it die now? Less suffering that way. Not that that's gonna happen, but it would be best.


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xkcd wrote: Since our

xkcd wrote:
Since our species will die eventually as you admit, why not let it die now? Less suffering that way. Not that that's gonna happen, but it would be best.

You sound suicidal, see a doctor. I'm not joking I'm a bit worried about you.


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I agree that you sound

I agree that you sound really down, and that maybe you should see a doctor.

I'll answer your question, too, but please, if you're ever feeling really down, please see a doctor, ok?

As to kids, there are those of us (theist and atheist) who don't reproduce. I'm snipped, myself, so I won't be reproducing. There are a lot of reasons why I don't won't, but here are the main ones:

* There are way, way, way too many people already. If everyone thinks that they're smart enough, so their kids will be different, well, everyone will reproduce. So, somebody has to be the one to say, "I'm not going to. Thank you."

* Frankly, I have other things to do. I don't want to devote 20 years of my life to raising a kid. It just doesn't interest me.

* I really believe there's something to the global warming thing. I don't want to bring a child into the world who may have to live through that kind of nastiness.

* I'm really scared about the direction the U.S. is going politically, and I don't want to raise a child in a theocracy.

So, you see, there are ways to come up with logical reasons, and not reproduce, and still be happy. As a matter of fact, I'm a very happy person. Ask anyone who knows me. I don't feel less fulfilled because I'm childless. (I won't kid you... those yearly cruises to the Carribean just wouldn't be possible while raising a kid, and they're damn fulfilling!)

Anyway, try not to think that everyone sees life the same way, ok? There are atheists here who LOVE kids. (Darth Josh comes to mind) There are others like myself who nearly vomit at the thought of having one. We're all happy or unhappy depending on lots of different factors in our lives.

It sounds like it wouldn't hurt for you to try to find some things that make you happy, and stop worrying so much about what others think about it... that's just my opinion though.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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I've been hearing this kind

I've been hearing this kind of rhetoric for 20 years in the Punk Rock community so I simply took it as being "Anti", forgive me if there is anything beyond that being presented here. If so seek help..

In regards to the question posed, perhaps it's simply a matter of perspective. When you're born in a world of shit filled with drugs, hate, and violence, in your house. The outside world does not appear so bad, at least it didn't to me. I was happy to get out, fix myself and have a family that is not built on the domino principal.

Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs


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Cause fucking feels good.

Cause fucking feels good.


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wavefreak wrote: Cause

wavefreak wrote:
Cause fucking feels good.

Dude... we need a forum for you.  "Ask Wavefreak."  We could save so much time just letting you give the simple answer.  So many of us get so damn verbose, and you have such a talent for the simple answer (so long as it's not about the existence of god!).

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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wavefreak wrote: Cause

wavefreak wrote:
Cause fucking feels good.

 

I couldnt have said that better myself. I was thinking the same thing but was unable to put it in words quite like that. Laughing


The Patrician
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xkcd wrote: The Patrician

xkcd wrote:
The Patrician wrote:

Love. Just like anybody else.

I mean, what the hell?

 

There's no rational reason, in other words, just irrational emotion. Kids are just tamagotchi toys for adults.

 

ps: i'm not a troll, just a bitter young dude.

 

Yeah?  And who's going to look after my sorry ass when I'm ninety then? 

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.


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xkcd wrote: Why do

xkcd wrote:

Why do atheists procreate (keep in mind I am one)? I know that atheists are okay with their kids being worm food, and they want to experience the joy of parenthood and they want their kids to enjoy life with them, but still, why bother? The human race is going nowhere, so why bother continuing this hopeless tragic fucking species?

 

Our species is as good as dead, the only question is when the doomsday event will occur. And hey, if you have kids, they might be the lucky generation to experience said doomsday event! Yayyy!!!!!

Congratulations xkcd, you have realized the pointlessness of our lives if there really is no god.  And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
xkcd wrote:

Why do atheists procreate (keep in mind I am one)? I know that atheists are okay with their kids being worm food, and they want to experience the joy of parenthood and they want their kids to enjoy life with them, but still, why bother? The human race is going nowhere, so why bother continuing this hopeless tragic fucking species?

 

Our species is as good as dead, the only question is when the doomsday event will occur. And hey, if you have kids, they might be the lucky generation to experience said doomsday event! Yayyy!!!!!

Congratulations xkcd, you have realized the pointlessness of our lives if there really is no god. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

I'm guessing you must be a theist. Yeah, that's why my fellow atheists don't like me- I go around saying 'life without god/afterlife is hopeless and pointless', and theists agree with me and look down on atheism because of my behavior.  Still, Dan, just b/c life without god/afterlife is pointless/hopeless doesn't mean that god/afterlife exists- it means reality is pointless/hopeless. Being a theist, you will naturally say 'no way! reality can't suck! it just can't! ergo, there must be a god. QED.'  The Argument by Inability to accept Crappiness is what we should call it.

 

"Cuz fucking feels good"

 

Fucking and procreation are too different things. Men and women have urges to have sex, but when it comes to babies, I believe it's a personal desire and a societal pressure rather than a biological instinct. Our instinct is to fuck; procreation is the outcome of said fucking.

 

Ever heard of birth control? Rubbers , pills- abortion?. Using a desire for sex as an excuse for having kids is the dumbest argument i've ever heard.


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The Patrician wrote: xkcd

The Patrician wrote:
xkcd wrote:
The Patrician wrote:

Love. Just like anybody else.

I mean, what the hell?

 

There's no rational reason, in other words, just irrational emotion. Kids are just tamagotchi toys for adults.

 

ps: i'm not a troll, just a bitter young dude.

 

Yeah? And who's going to look after my sorry ass when I'm ninety then?

 

The money you'd save from not having kid(s) would be enough to pay a maid to take care of you, or stay at a home, or whatever. With money left over for cruises and shit. 


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Voiderest wrote: xkcd

Voiderest wrote:

xkcd wrote:
Since our species will die eventually as you admit, why not let it die now? Less suffering that way. Not that that's gonna happen, but it would be best.

You sound suicidal, see a doctor. I'm not joking I'm a bit worried about you.

 

I don't plan on killing myself, but I wish that we as a species would 'kill ourselves' by ceasing procreation, thus allowing our species to die off. It's not suicide, it's species discontinuation. 


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xkcd wrote: Voiderest

xkcd wrote:
Voiderest wrote:

xkcd wrote:
Since our species will die eventually as you admit, why not let it die now? Less suffering that way. Not that that's gonna happen, but it would be best.

You sound suicidal, see a doctor. I'm not joking I'm a bit worried about you.

 

I don't plan on killing myself, but I wish that we as a species would 'kill ourselves' by ceasing procreation, thus allowing our species to die off. It's not suicide, it's species discontinuation. 

Good luck with that plan.

In the mean time, I'll fill in for your portion of the porking.

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien


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xkcd wrote:   Fucking and

xkcd wrote:
 

Fucking and procreation are too different things. Men and women have urges to have sex, but when it comes to babies, I believe it's a personal desire and a societal pressure rather than a biological instinct. Our instinct is to fuck; procreation is the outcome of said fucking. 

Um, why do you think humans have the urge to have sex?  The urge stems from the biological drive to procreate.  Baby making is the purpose, orgasms are the incentive to do so.

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


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Roisin Dubh wrote: xkcd

Roisin Dubh wrote:
xkcd wrote:

Fucking and procreation are too different things. Men and women have urges to have sex, but when it comes to babies, I believe it's a personal desire and a societal pressure rather than a biological instinct. Our instinct is to fuck; procreation is the outcome of said fucking.

Um, why do you think humans have the urge to have sex? The urge stems from the biological drive to procreate. Baby making is the purpose, orgasms are the incentive to do so.

 

*sigh*

 

Yes, the reason we have the fucking urges is b/c natural selection favors those urges b/c of course it leads to babies. However, in these modern times, we now know how to fuck w/o creating a baby. Thus, we can act out our sexual urges without creating babies. I don't believe there is a biological instinct to have kids- when women talk of their biol. clock ticking, I think they're hearing society and not their own instincts. 


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xkcd wrote: Roisin Dubh

xkcd wrote:
Roisin Dubh wrote:
xkcd wrote:

Fucking and procreation are too different things. Men and women have urges to have sex, but when it comes to babies, I believe it's a personal desire and a societal pressure rather than a biological instinct. Our instinct is to fuck; procreation is the outcome of said fucking.

Um, why do you think humans have the urge to have sex? The urge stems from the biological drive to procreate. Baby making is the purpose, orgasms are the incentive to do so.

 

*sigh*

 

Yes, the reason we have the fucking urges is b/c natural selection favors those urges b/c of course it leads to babies. However, in these modern times, we now know how to fuck w/o creating a baby. Thus, we can act out our sexual urges without creating babies. I don't believe there is a biological instinct to have kids- when women talk of their biol. clock ticking, I think they're hearing society and not their own instincts.

 

What do you care if I make babies or not? We're all gonna die anyway. 


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xkcd wrote: *sigh* Save

xkcd wrote:

*sigh*

Save the condescention, you're not impressing anyone.

 

Quote:
Yes, the reason we have the fucking urges is b/c natural selection favors those urges b/c of course it leads to babies. However, in these modern times, we now know how to fuck w/o creating a baby.

Irrelevant. The urge still stems from the inate drive to procreate.

Quote:
Thus, we can act out our sexual urges without creating babies. I don't believe there is a biological instinct to have kids-

And you're contradicting virtually every expert in the field with that statement. You'll have to forgive me if I side with the hundreds of people that have spent countless hours studying this topic, who have come to the conclusion that humans, like all animals, have 2 base urges-- survival, and passing on your genetic information.

Quote:
when women talk of their biol. clock ticking, I think they're hearing society and not their own instincts.

You'd be wrong. A woman's biological clock stems from the biological fact that, as a woman ages, the quantity and quality of her eggs declines. Hence, the "alarm" that goes off as she ages, compelling her to start working on procreating before it's too late.

"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."


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xkcd wrote: Why do

xkcd wrote:

Why do atheists procreate (keep in mind I am one)? I know that atheists are okay with their kids being worm food, and they want to experience the joy of parenthood and they want their kids to enjoy life with them, but still, why bother? The human race is going nowhere, so why bother continuing this hopeless tragic fucking species?

 

Our species is as good as dead, the only question is when the doomsday event will occur. And hey, if you have kids, they might be the lucky generation to experience said doomsday event! Yayyy!!!!!

 

 Dude, hopefully you can get past this existential angst you're having and make some meaning out of your life.  Yeah looking at our past it does seem like we're just going to blow ourselves up soon.  But it doesn't mean we will though.

"I, on the other hand, do not feel it necessary to construct a lofty meaning for myself. I prefer the style of the butterfly myself. I will eat what I want, flit about aimlessly, and enjoy the sunshine. Then, I will die. " - Nero, RRS Forum User


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Sometimes I feel like the

Sometimes I feel like the OP, but then I realize that there are a lot of things worth living through... even if life sometimes is shitty. These things can be as simple as watching a movie or smoking a hookah. I don't think there is a need to procreate, but I could give you a handful of reasons of why fucking is good. If you are not one of the lucky ones, you always have your hand ;D

 When I say there is no need to procreate, I mean that there are so many people having babies (and multiple per person) that our global population is growing too fast. On the other side, I wouldn't be contributing to the evolution of man or my genes. (at least I don't have any major hereditory disease).


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silentseba

silentseba wrote:

Sometimes I feel like the OP, but then I realize that there are a lot of things worth living through... even if life sometimes is shitty. These things can be as simple as watching a movie or smoking a hookah. I don't think there is a need to procreate, but I could give you a handful of reasons of why fucking is good. If you are not one of the lucky ones, you always have your hand ;D

When I say there is no need to procreate, I mean that there are so many people having babies (and multiple per person) that our global population is growing too fast. On the other side, I wouldn't be contributing to the evolution of man or my genes. (at least I don't have any major hereditory disease).

Yeah sometime I feel that way to. I can see the ops point. As sad as that sounds. Sometimes I watch msn hoping someone launched a nuke so that everyone can start launching nukes and it would be complete chaos. I dont know why. But im interested in the idea of all that madness. 

Sometimes life fuckin pisses me off. But I try not to bother others with it by telling them to stop having babies.

I think my main problem with life in general is money. Someone always calling wanting more money! I think of money as a form of slavery. We have to have it or we probably wouldnt survive. Man that shit pisses me off!

But as much as it pisses me off I am overall happy with all the other things in my life. I urge you all to have or not have as many children as you would like. Dont let me bad attitude stop any of you. Tongue out

 

(oh yeah i also see the point of over population. I hate having alot of people around me most of the time.) 


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Damn. I have got to stop

Damn. I have got to stop killing thread around here. Tongue out


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Wavefreak answered it

Wavefreak answered it perfectly.

To the OP. Go see a doctor. Tell him everything you just told us.


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Quote: I'm guessing you

Quote:

I'm guessing you must be a theist. Yeah, that's why my fellow atheists don't like me- I go around saying 'life without god/afterlife is hopeless and pointless', and theists agree with me and look down on atheism because of my behavior.  Still, Dan, just b/c life without god/afterlife is pointless/hopeless doesn't mean that god/afterlife exists- it means reality is pointless/hopeless. Being a theist, you will naturally say 'no way! reality can't suck! it just can't! ergo, there must be a god. QED.'  The Argument by Inability to accept Crappiness is what we should call it.

No, I'm no theist.  If I was, I'd have a sorry little "theist" label on top of my picture.  I'm just an atheist who sees the world as it is.  Of course it doesn't mean that god or an afterlife exists.  It just means that all we do is futile if the human race is going to die someday.  But I have a question for all of you, isn't one of our main purposes to evolve into a higher species? 

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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I really don't see why we

I really don't see why we should view our species in such a negative way. We have the capability to be good. Of course something needs to change environmentally, economically, and politically, but humans are on the whole a fantastic species, with moral agency. We procreate because we want to continue our species, it's a natural urge, necessitated by natural selection. If we didn't have that urge, our species would die out. It is rational in a free-floating sense even if it is not rational to our own minds.


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Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

But I have a question for all of you, isn't one of our main purposes to evolve into a higher species?

You assume we have a purpose and that evolution is something we can guide =\.


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xkcd wrote: The money you'd

xkcd wrote:
The money you'd save from not having kid(s) would be enough to pay a maid to take care of you, or stay at a home, or whatever. With money left over for cruises and shit.

You can't beat a maid with your walking stick and not just have it put down to gramps beign cranky though. 

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.


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Basically, the reason

Basically, the reason atheists have kids is to serve as yet another distraction to them. Kids are tamagotchi toys for adults, just toys used to entertain you, no different than a dvd or video game. Fucking toys.

 

BTW, mindfreak was wrong, you can have all the sex you want, just use birth control and/or abortion. Sex /= procreation. 


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Look mate, you need to get

Look mate, you need to get some help. The world is not about to end. Now, I do not know what is going through your head, but my guess is that you are depressed. I've suffered from mild depression myself and survived. There is no great doomsday lurking on the horizon, the possibility of global warming is there yes, but that can be prevented. The possibility of all out nuclear war ended 17 years ago. The human species is alive and well. See a counsellor, sort out whatever it is. You say you are an atheist, and that may well be, hopefully one of the things this site can show you is that atheism doesn't have to be harsh and bleak at all. Most of us here are decent, happy people who live life as best as we can, for ourselves, for the ones we love and for the rest of the world. Hopefully some of our members can help you, but I would really advise that you see someone about this.


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Jacob Cordingley

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Look mate, you need to get some help. The world is not about to end. Now, I do not know what is going through your head, but my guess is that you are depressed. I've suffered from mild depression myself and survived. There is no great doomsday lurking on the horizon, the possibility of global warming is there yes, but that can be prevented. The possibility of all out nuclear war ended 17 years ago. The human species is alive and well. See a counsellor, sort out whatever it is. You say you are an atheist, and that may well be, hopefully one of the things this site can show you is that atheism doesn't have to be harsh and bleak at all. Most of us here are decent, happy people who live life as best as we can, for ourselves, for the ones we love and for the rest of the world. Hopefully some of our members can help you, but I would really advise that you see someone about this.

 

A counselor can't do shit for me. I want to live forever in a paradise with my loved ones and a 'god', not live for a short time in a shithole full of pain and tragedy on my way to eternal death. Nothing can help me. I don't want to live a finite life of bullshti like you guys.  I want to press a button and end the suffering of millions.

 

Fuck. 


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You might want to live

You might want to live forever, but you have to face up to the fact that you probably won't. It can be hard, but there is a simple choice you have: cherish the life you have, try to make it the best you can (and I know all too well that just doing that can be hard) or you can mope about, wallow in self-pity and end up driving yourself insane. Life can be extremely hard, I haven't had the easiest life in my 20 years existence on this planet and I'm kinda with you, death is fucking scary! But it is an irrational fear, a phobia, you were dead before you were born and you'll be dead again once you die. I wanna live as long as I possibly can, that I can tell you, I might even want to live forever, but I know that there is no reason for me to believe that this is going to happen. You have to come to grips with it. You aren't the only person in the world who has suffered.

 


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xkcd wrote: I want to press

xkcd wrote:
I want to press a button and end the suffering of millions.

 

How does one experience any level of joy without an equal level of suffering?


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Just to prove that there's

Just to prove that there's something productive you can do to give your life some meaning, here's an movement you should look into.  I bet if you got in contact with them, they'd be happy to have you help them distribute literature, help to create new content, spread awareness, etc...

VHEMT (Voluntary Human Extinction Movement)  pronounced "vehement"

I've given this site a good perusal, and I can't say that I have strong disagreements with anything they say, and they seem to advocate a lot of what you're saying, except without the early 20 something angst and bitterness.

Seriously, man.  There are things you can do to have some meaning, even if that meaning is encouraging everyone around you to get sterilized!  Trust me, I'm on board with you about the world probably being better off without us.  We are making things really suck for a lot of other inhabitants of earth.  Since there's no magic button, why don't you work on doing something positive?  Start encouraging people by pointing out how fulfilling life can be without kids?  Encourage people not to leave a "legacy."  Trust me, the old saying, "You catch more flies with honey" is true.  

You see, you're coming on here full of piss and vinegar, and what are you getting?  Piss and vinegar in return.  

Check out this website.  See if you think there's something to it, find another shrink because the one you found sucked, and then try to find something to do to make yourself feel useful and fulfilled.

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Since this thread is not

Since this thread is not entirely dedicated to xkcd, I'm going to post a chart from the aforementioned website, just to kick up a storm and see what kind of thoughts other posters have.

Why Breed?

Reasons given Real reasons Suggested alternatives

I can't help it, it's a biological urge.

Unexamined motivations.

Institutions await those who can't control their biological urges.

Want to give our parents grandchildren.

Still seeking parental approval.

Live your own life and encourage your parents to do the same.

I just love children.

Out of touch with inner child, and with existing children.

Adopt, step, and foster parenting.
Big Brother/Sister. Work with children, teach.

I have superior human genes.

Doesn't recognize an oxymoron.
Megalomania.

Do great things with your genes, rather than expecting the next cultured batch to do it.

Need help on farm or in family business.

Too cheap to hire help.
Child labor laws inconvenient.

Mechanization gives faster return on investment.

Want someone to care for me in my old age.

Fear of aging.
Exploitative personality.

Save money and prepare for retirement. Be nice to people so they will visit you in the home.

Pregnancy and childbirth are life experiences.

Life choices limited by social indoctrination.

Rent pregnancy simulator. Choose different life experiences.

A good family is essential to career advancement and strong standing in the community.

Social insecurity. Wants trophy children to improve social status.

Rent children from talent agency on special occasions. Have white picket fence installed.

We want to create a life which embodies our love for each other.

Ego, times two, minus imagination, equals three plus.

Garden. Adopt a stream, trail, or hiway. Rescue animals. Protect & restore ecosystems to embody love.

I want my kids (who don't exist yet) to have all the things I didn't have.

Unfulfilled childhood desires and fantasies.

Deal with regrets & make best of life. Provide for existing children.

To carry on family name.

Trying to please Dad.
Duped by bloodline superstition.

Create something enduring & give it family name. Donate blood to pass on bloodline.

Want to see a little me.

Self-absorption. Lack of ego gratification.

Order custom-made, life-like doll.
Create a gratifying life of your own.

God wants us to.

Mindless obedience to dogma peddlers who want larger flocks.

Seek true nature of God, whatever you perceive God to be.

My wife/husband wants a baby.

Giving in out of fear of losing partner.

Communicate true desires. Spouse may feel you're the one who wants to breed. Rent baby simulator doll.

Want a child with our bloodline.

Ego extention. Racial identity.

Recognize value of people with different genetic makeups.

It's a spiritual thing for me.

Other reasons too easily refuted.

Find truly spiritual experiences.

I've always wanted to have children, it's what people do.

Unquestioned cultural conditioning.

Consider alternatives. Question expectations. Adopt.

To cement our relationship.

Fear of failed marriage.

Communicate to strengthen relationship. Attend retreats for bonding couples.

I love babies.

Short-sighted view of reality.

Babies soon turn into children, then adults. Infant care work is available.

Being a mother is a woman's highest calling.

Beguiled into believing compliance is noble free choice.

Motherhood, and fatherhood, may be achieved without breeding. Many children wait for good homes.

My child could find a way to save the world.

"Mother of God" complex. (Also applies to men).

If you want something done right, do it yourself.

We'd like to try for a boy/girl this time.

Ego extention. Gender identity insecurity. Dissatisfaction with existing offspring.

Appreciate who you have, they might resent their sibling whose gender is preferred.

I just want to.

Just wants to.

Choosing to breed precludes most other things you'll just want to do.

I want someone who will love me and not leave me.

Fear of rejection. Unresolved relationship issues.

Give love to get love. Accept change and deal with loss.

Our economy needs young workers to replace retired workers.

Willing to sacrifice offspring to gods of National Economy.

Automation reduces need for wage slaves. Consider rights of unconceived to stay that way.

The world needs more of us or we'll be outnumbered.

Elitism. Xenophobia. Eugenics easier to conceal than genocide.

Convert others to your views so there'll be one more of your kind and one less of Them.

We may as well, the planet is doomed anyway.

Nihilistic natalism.

Consider ethics of sentencing an innocent person to life, and death, in ecological collapse.

I'd like to achieve a sense of immortality.

Fear of death and non-existence.

Accept mortality. Spread memes not genes. Socrates' heirs are not apparent, but his ideas linger strong.

My biological clock has gone off.

Women's normal heightened sexual desire in 30s & 40s difficult to accept in puritanical societies.

Disarm that culturally-implanted mental time bomb. It's okay to make love and not babies.

I don't know.

Never thought about it. Unthinking conformity.

Think before you breed, and you might not.

I might regret not having had the experience later, when it's too late.

Fear of future worries and life passing too fast.

We can't experience everything. Far better to regret not breeding than to regret breeding

I do not want to deny my kids (who do not exist yet) the joy of existence.

Ignoring lack of joy in existing children.

Promote existence of joy rather than imagining joy in mere existence.

Procreation has traditionally been a source of personal empowerment for women.

Feels powerless. Desires power and respect society appears to give to mothers and withholds from others.

Mothers get more lip service than respect. Picking up family's slack is not empowering. Seek self-defined sources of power.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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For me I think people have

For me I think people have kids mostly out of biology, but I think that little chart under estimates the power of biology. Now there is something to the idea to carry on a stable population and the existence of humans. With the idea of carrying on there is an aspect of carrying on ideas, but no more humans no more ideas.

Personally I think there are better ways to fix the planet then stop having babies and its going to end anyway isn't good enough to end something now. I know I don't start playing a video game and throw the controller down because I know the game ends.

Honestly that meme isn't a very fit one... most of the people you convince won't have children to keep the idea around :/

 

Is biology a good reason to have kids? I don't know is there a good reason to think food taste good? 


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Well, truthfully, I don't

Well, truthfully, I don't think the chart is too far off on a lot of the "reasons given" and "real reasons" but it definitely makes the mistake of saying that everybody who procreates is doing so for one of those bad reasons...

I'm torn, actually, because I really do think there about 3 billion too many people on the planet to sustain the natural resources, and we could stand for about 3 generations of people to cut reproduction by about 9/10ths.

I am of the opinion that most people who procreate really didn't want to, at least not when they did...  I also think that biology creates a pervasive cultural bias towards reproduction, regardless of population problems, but to say that human extinction is a good thing, I dunno.  I'd much rather see us reduce our population by 1/2 and live comfortably without destroying our resources and killing half the species on the planet.

Very complicated issue, to be sure.

In any case, no babies for me, and I'm an only child, so one bloodline is ending.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Well controling a

Well controlling a population is reasonable as we only have one planet (right now). The bigger problem is that the people smart enough to realize a problem aren't the ones having too many babies. Most of the developed world is lowering their population and in the US the only reason its going up is because on immigration. Its the developing world that is having too many kids and they don't have the tech to deal with it. Now if everyone in the developed world stops having kids whats going to happen? Well that part of the world will crash and the developing world will still be having kids.

I'm under the opinion if I had kids that I should have less then 3 (kids less then or equal to 2) in that way the only impact I have is replacement. The said part is that the dumb have a better chance of reproducing because they are more likely to try a birth control method that won't work. In other words dumb is becoming more genetically fit...

 

On a lighter note...

Fry: We're all gonna die, aren't we?

Farnsworth: Oh, I should think so. Although last time aliens invaded all they did was force the most intelligent of us to pair off and mate continuously. Oh, yes!


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Well, yeah, I wasn't really

Well, yeah, I wasn't really proposing a method to reduce population, just pointing out that I think it's necessary.

Unfortunately, I don't see a way around the less intelligent people breeding more worldwide. The sad reality is that modern medicine, boon that it has been to human happiness, might also be its downfall. When infant mortality was 50% it was a lot more difficult to increase the population, particularly when the mother died in 1 out of 10 childbirths.

I'm not saying I want to go back to there. It's just a fact. There are a lot of people alive who *shouldn't* be alive, but for artificial means. While you could counter this by saying that medicine could be considered an evolutionary adaptation, I would point out that most species also have built in population controls, with the exception of deer, which are the bane of my existence, and eat my goddamned tomatoes and parsley...

Hmm... somewhere I think I've gotten off track.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit wrote: Well,

Hambydammit wrote:

Well, yeah, I wasn't really proposing a method to reduce population, just pointing out that I think it's necessary.

Unfortunately, I don't see a way around the less intelligent people breeding more worldwide. The sad reality is that modern medicine, boon that it has been to human happiness, might also be its downfall. When infant mortality was 50% it was a lot more difficult to increase the population, particularly when the mother died in 1 out of 10 childbirths.

I'm not saying I want to go back to there. It's just a fact. There are a lot of people alive who *shouldn't* be alive, but for artificial means. While you could counter this by saying that medicine could be considered an evolutionary adaptation, I would point out that most species also have built in population controls, with the exception of deer, which are the bane of my existence, and eat my goddamned tomatoes and parsley...

Hmm... somewhere I think I've gotten off track.

Yeah after the word deer it went down hill Sticking out tongue

I get what you're saying. It wouldn't be too bad if we can get technology to keep up with the population, but thats not exactly fool proof. The over population doesn't really have a whole lot to do with space but if it did thats easy to over come, build up or float. The problem is food and air. For both we need photosynthesis which needs space or higher yields.

With genetic modification we are starting to solve that issue, but I don't know if we can keep up.


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xkcd wrote: A counselor

xkcd wrote:
A counselor can't do shit for me. I want to live forever in a paradise with my loved ones and a 'god', not live for a short time in a shithole full of pain and tragedy on my way to eternal death. Nothing can help me. I don't want to live a finite life of bullshti like you guys. I want to press a button and end the suffering of millions.

 

Fuck.

 

Turn off the Fallout Boy and get out into the sunshine.  Seriously. 

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.


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xkcd wrote: A counselor

xkcd wrote:

A counselor can't do shit for me. I want to live forever in a paradise with my loved ones and a 'god', not live for a short time in a shithole full of pain and tragedy on my way to eternal death. Nothing can help me. I don't want to live a finite life of bullshti like you guys. I want to press a button and end the suffering of millions.

 

Fuck.

xkcd, your ride's here:

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Hambydammit wrote: I'm not

Hambydammit wrote:

I'm not saying I want to go back to there. It's just a fact. There are a lot of people alive who *shouldn't* be alive, but for artificial means. While you could counter this by saying that medicine could be considered an evolutionary adaptation, I would point out that most species also have built in population controls, with the exception of deer, which are the bane of my existence, and eat my goddamned tomatoes and parsley...

Hmm... somewhere I think I've gotten off track.

I've been told the answer is rosemary; it's natural deer repellant. Plant rosemary around anything you want them to stop eating.

My theory is that it works because deer know they're delicious with rosemary, and don't want to season themselves. Sort of the same reason fish don't eat tartar sauce, breading, fries and vinegar.

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Human hair works as well.

Human hair works as well. Use nylon leggings to make little bags, put the hair in it and throw them in the garden. Keeps them out of my parents tulips.

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien