A word for the wise. Sapient owns this site and runs the chat room. Bitching about getting kicked in the chat room on the forum is not going to get you anywhere, even if you were improperly kicked. And frankly, it does not seem to me that such is the case.

Are you sure you said they can be, or did you perhaps say that they are?

This is a ludicrous suggestion. The fact that some people still believe in the completely and totally refuted suggestion of intelligent design shows our species still has a long way to go before we can even call ourselves intelligent.

Yes you are.

All religions are equally evil, and equally opposed here. That includes the wiccas, jewish, muslim, and christian religions, but is not limited to them.

So you're advertising a fundamentally opposed polar opposite of this site, on this site, and you don't see why you should have been kicked for it? And you actually think that group of idiots is capable or has accomplished proving an afterlife? Yes, you definately deserved to be kicked out.

Obviously you do. You're promoting a competitor of the RRS on the RRS's own boards.

There is no such thing, but I encourage you to give an attempt at it.

How do you know this?

And I have. There is no god.

Obviously you do. You keep saying you don't want to, followed by an attempt to do so immediately after. Pathetic that you think you are not transparent.

I'm sure Sapient would love to have you on his show. Just ask him. Don't bitch and whine and promote competitors of his business on his own site. That's just disrespectful.

All irrational and unproven concepts.

I am only speeking for myself I am not speeking on behalf of the board or it's mods. But as a privacy advocate and a former mod on other boards, here is my personal take on it: 

"Poor me" "I am persicuted because people wont put up with hocus pocus claims".

You were NOT persicuted. If you want to sell your comic book claims, start your own website and do it there. No one put a gun to your head and forced you to go into that chat room. No one forced you to make this post here.

Your persicution complex is underwhelming and not the slightest bit impressive. Take your pitty party elsewhere. The owners of this site dont hate people who believe what they dont. Atheists are concerned about one thing and one thing only, "Evidence" and they are not under any obligation to buy Harry Potter claims simply because you fanticise about "Weekly Word News" garbage.

The junk you sell has been debunked ad nausium over and over and no credible scientists buys it.

Atheists have been accused of being Nazis too. Get over yourself and grow up.

Atheists treat all claims the same and want "evidence". Yes, we do dismiss junk for what it is. That is being rational, not facist. We cant help you if you dont want help in facing that. But it does not make the board owners Nazis because they dont want people spamming the board with junk.

If someone were to start a post here claiming that vampires existed they would give it the weight it diserves. If the person continued they'd  be under no obligation to provide them with server space to store that junk. If they wanted to sell the idea of vampires they can start their own pro vampire website and not one atheist here would use goverment force to stop them from doing such.

"Poor me"........would you like some whine with cheese?

This site is under no obligation to provide anyone, be it you or me, with space. We are guests here invited by the owners.

Tell me, would you want me to bust down your door and force you to read "The God Delusion"? NO you wouldnt. So dont have the gaul to come in here at try to dictate to a private owned website what the owners can do. They own it, not you, not me. 

If you really believe you are being "rational", you need help. Maybe the people here cant help you, but you do need help. 

Let me add. I have been kicked out of Christian chat rooms merely based on the nick I was using. I may think it is stupid, but the fact is that the room is run by them, not me. I dont bitch about them doing what they want with things they own and run. If I dont like what they have to say I can start my own chat room or website. What I cant do is tell someone how to run something I dont own.

So you think sapient is a facist? If he had a nickle for every time.

Grow up, your rights were not violated and no one was being facist. I think what you should do insted of making silly and inmature accusations, mabe you should critically look at your own claims insted of clinging to fantacy and buying it as fact. I think you'll find that reality is much more liberating than buying superstition of any kind.

Sapient would never suggest forcable opression of anyone. But certainly YOU do not have the right to come into his chat room and bitch about something you dont own and try to dictate to him what he should do with what he owns.

BWHAHAHAHAHA!   yea love to see that nonsense. 

yes the jewish religion is worshipping evil, yup sure. You do realize they worship the same god without jesus? You probably couldn't care less though.

Uh huh and someone has proved that the time is cubic

sure right good luck with that 

Read about a few, you know they can cause them by sticking electrodes into someone's brain in certain areas? 

Nero,

        He's just a crackmonkey sorry.
 

Grammar Girl would condemn him to literacy hell.

I know that the title of this thread stated that you were kicked out of a chat for being too rational.  I can only conclude, after reading the gibberish you wrote, that you have absolutely no idea what the word rational means. 

Are you sure you didn't mean to write 'I got kicked out of a chat for being a dumb asshole'? 

FYI: I haven't been in the chatroom in a week, it was probably Rook using my account.

Further, imagine the chatroom is a real room in the home of the Rational Response Squad, it is private property.  Sometimes morons, idiots, liars, and assholes get kicked out as the mods have simply had enough.  Not only is this within their rights, but also a suggestion directly from me.  Our site is a home specifically for atheists who are sick of people who act as stupid as the views you espoused in your post, occassionally the patience of our members wears thin, and lunacy isn't welcome.  We get enough lunacy in the real world and don't always want it in our living room.  

Those who bring ridiculous claims to our site don't realize they are insulting our intelligence by assuming they will convince us to hold their irrational positions.  These insults aren't always welcome, often we just deal with it.   

Clearly you are just here to spread your ignorance and arguments from incredulity. Seeing as you operate under the delusion that this is proof of intelligent design. Perhaps, then, you would be so kind as to remember that

a) As I have shown here and here:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/proteomics_and_its_applications_for_evolutionary_mechanisms_indisputable_proof_of_evolution_and_...

http://www.rationalresponders.com/reading_the_common_descent_endogenous_retrovirals_and_mitochondrial_dna_a_very_short_page

Evolutionary mechanisms are not random despite the lack of a conscious guider.

here I have shown that every a posteriori mechanism for attempting to prove God is intellectually bankrupt, perhaps you would care to respond to allegations that you are making a stolen concept fallacy with your argumentum ad ignoratium as shown here:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/noncognitivist_arguments_part_i_god_exists_is_mutually_contradictory

The rest is merely metaphysical garbage. You should do more study into QM, before citing it in your favor. Consciousness is not "energy" it is a neurological process. Please, you would do well to check out what I wrote in refuation to this here:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/fallacies_commonly_employed_against_materialism_refuted

You are attempting to refer to a QM interpretation known as Consciousness causes wavefunction collapse, which, firstly, does not imply what you are suggesting. I think you need some slight versing in standard QM information, as shown here:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/noncognitivist_arguments_part_ii_the_matter_information_conjecture_is_a_crisis_for_the_existence...

and here, where I wrote:

The one thing which really got me about the quantum paradoxes is how little they matter. Just because we cannot know the definite state of the cat in the box and have to draw a wavefunction does not mean the cat is in a definite state. I think that CCC is saying not that the cat is not in a definite state without an observer, but instead that there is no way to know the definite state without an observer. But that's obvious! I'm really confused too. I think I'll stick to the relatively safe (but still totally absurd) world of particle physics, instead of quantum paradoxes. Drop John Wheeler a message about it, see what he thinks. After all, he developed it.

I think Ill stick to It from Bit, which says the only predicate for WF collapse is information expressed in the particles, not an observed. This gets around the problem you posed. CCC is problematic because it leads to an infinite regress of conscious observers, possibly up to God himself. But that's just ridiculous in terms of parsimony. If you look up "breaking Occam's Razor", you'll find a picture of a person looking into a box with a cat.

For parsimony, put money on Wheeler's It from bit, since in that picture, there are no wavefunctions to collapse, since it is impossible to isolate a system of information (For example, in the box with the cat, a single air molecule entering or escaping would collapse the WF). Far from collapsing the wavefunctions, there are no wavefunctions to collapse. Since all bodies capable of existing in multiple quantum states emit information, wavefunctions do not exist, and this is the epitome of parsimony.

And you would do well to remember that no Quantum physicist takes this seriously, as I reminded:

They claim to have proof from quantum phyiscs? That's very interesting, since I did quantum physics in university and still study it, and I have never heard such a ridiculous claim in my entire life. What would they use to support it? Electrodynamics? Chrondodynamics? Entaglement? Boltzmann paramaters? Supersymmetry? Gauge theory? I cannot see a relationship between QED and this metaphysical garbage.

The quantum physicist John Wheeler, for his work on the nature of consciousness and its relevance to Wavefunction collapse, was hailed as a guru by New Age spiritual idiots. Wheeler hates them. He said of them "Where there's smoke, there's smoke".

I don't think quantum physicists take seriously the notion that their work has any relevance to New Age mysticism.

Also, perhaps you would care to respond to a set of questions I arrayed for vitalists here:

How do you explain the alteration effect produced on the conscious experience by drugs?

How do you solve the interaction problem?

At what point in the neuroelectrochemical feedback loop does the “soul” enter the equation?

How do you explain the debunking of the Cartesian Theatre hypothesis?

How do you explain split-brain experiments?

At what point during neurogenesis in human embryonic development does the soul enter the equation?

How do you explain the knock-on effect?

How do you account for the divisibility problem?

How do you account for neuroplasticity and synaptogenesis?

What say you regarding the relationship between blood flow and thought processing?

How do you explain PVS?

Do you mean to imply that you think you know more than me about biology, physics and QM despite the fact that I have engaged in formal study of all three?

Could you please not debate on issues on which you are fundamentally ignorant?

I used to have God talking into my ear.   I found that a tin foil hat works really well at shutting him up...

Deludedgod ... your brain kind of scares me.

 But it's good scared. Like getting flashed with boobies when you weren't expecting it. "GASP ... oh ... wow that was fun"

Do you have a link for this article? 

OK ,you win, your the smarter person & i cant answer all your  questions.

How do you explain the alteration effect produced on the conscious experience by drugs?
well,monkeys evolved side by side with plants,the drugs in the plants expanded or alter their cousciouness and they got smarter,brains got larger.and here we are now.Our brians are wired to use drugs,they activate the pineal gland which pumps DMT out,and that provides you with the mystical experience.we get to use a larger % of the brain when on drugs.more of the synapses are connected and more information can be processed.

The metaphysical and paranormal is not grabage.just becasue we cant see something doesnt mean it does not exist.same goes for experienceing "reality".

Nothing is not really physicaly solid.when you zoom into the atom there is nothing there, its like a shell.i guess thats where string theory comes in.

I know that the universe is intelligent,it might not be aware of itself yet.And evolution is evolution of consciouness,singel cell to animals over billions of years.No-one really knows where DNA comes from anywayz.DNA might be the code for consciouness.i think everything is alive and conscious even rocks or dirt.


Lets say its all in your brain.how do you explain this
"Born without a BRAIN!"

When Sheffield’s campus doctor was treating one of the mathematics students for a minor ailment, he noticed that the student’s head was a little larger than normal. The doctor referred the student to professor Lorber for further examination.

The student in question was academically bright, had a reported IQ of 126 and was expected to graduate. When he was examined by CAT-scan, however, Lorber discovered that he had virtually no brain at all.

Instead of two hemispheres filling the cranial cavity, some 4.5 centimetres deep, the student had less than 1 millimetre of cerebral tissue covering the top of his spinal column. The student was suffering from hydrocephalus, the condition in which the cerebrospinal fluid, instead of circulating around the brain and entering the bloodstream, becomes dammed up inside.
Normally, the condition is fatal in the first months of childhood. Even where an individual survives he or she is usually seriously handicapped. Somehow, though, the Sheffield student had lived a perfectly normal life and went on to gain an honours degree in mathematics. This case is by no means as rare as it seems. In 1970, a New Yorker died at the age of 35. He had left school with no academic achievements, but had worked at manual jobs such as building janitor, and was a popular figure in his neighbourhood. Tenants of the building where he worked described him as passing the days performing his routine chores, such as tending the boiler, and reading the tabloid newspapers. When an autopsy was performed to determine the cause of his premature death he, too, was found to have practically no brain at all. Professor Lorber has identified several hundred people who have very small cerebral hemispheres but who appear to be normal intelligent individuals. Some of them he describes as having ‘no detectable brain’, yet they have scored up to 120 on IQ tests. "

found here http://www.alternativescience.com/no_brainer.htm


http://www.wintersteel.com/Life_Without_Brain.html

There is, however, a term for what happens when unusual amounts of the brain are activated simultaneously; it's called an "epileptic seizure".

Nothing looks the same when you zoom in enough. Look at a building closely enough and it's nothing but a pile of bricks, wood, and/or metal.

Since you cut and pasted this, I think it's safe to assume you already know this, which leads me to believe that you have resorted to lies to make your point. That pretty well destroys any credibility that's left after your obvious linguistic retardation.

 I laughed so hard reading what you wrote.

I've already read the wintersteel page on numerous occasions, and all of it is utterly ridiculous.

Maybe, instead of ripping articls off the web and sputtering incoherencies, you could try, just try, having an original thought. Douchebag.

Now, where were we?

Oh yes.

I actually felt vomit in the corners of my mouth rereading wintersteel.

It's utter lunacy.

The cardioregulatory center in the brain controls the beating of the heart. Without a brain, the heart would not beat. Nearly all of the unconscious functions of the body are controlled by the brain. The Vagus nerve, the Vestibulocochlear nerve, the oculomotor nerve. Since there is no sensory processing, all organs are vestigial, the body is totally worthless.

A body without a brain is dead. It cannot move or function. No motor coordination, since there is no CNS. No organs, no movement, no senses, no nothing. It will start decomposing within days since there is no axon-stimulus for the organization of the cellular colonies. (This was shown when experiments with Sensory Deprivation proved that vestigial use of organ functions related to certain brain signals would die when unused) If you cover the eye of a kitten from birth for an extended period of time, say a year, it will be blind since the neurons controlling the VSC will unravel. Same principle, except there are no neurons as there is no brain making the situation ever more utterly absurd,

Its just a vegetable. If I unplugg my computer's Hard Disk, BIOS, GPU, motherboard and CPU, I'll switch it on and pray that it will just "adapt" to no longer existing! What a great idea.

The notion that a body could survive or "adapt" without a brain is totally and utterly ridiculous. The body cannot function without the brain for more than a few moments. There are stories of chickens surviving for a while without heads, that is more plausible since chickens have primitive axon-feedback control systems, with a more decentralized nervous system, but if we are taking a human being. It's so utterly ludicrous. It is total nonsense. Without a brain, there can be no body, since the cells will undergo PCD or apoptosis in minutes, no electrical signals to stimulate unconscious functions of the organs, which means no heart, no lungs, no stomach, no nothing. And definitely no movement, seeing as that requires axon-firing, which requires a brain. You might as well suggest that I can use my computer without using my computer. The brain is the body. Without it, all the other functions are useless, vestigial. The heart cannot pump. The stomach cannot contract. The endocrine system cannot produce hormones, the exocrine system cannot undergo glandular secretions, the myosin ion gradients in the muscles die, the sensory organs are not connected to anything. The whole body becomes a useless vegetable without a brain.

Actually, the baby cannot properly develop in utero without developing a brain, since the baby's heart starts to beat in utero, and that requires electrical signals from the hypothalamus. If the baby did not develop a brain, it would come out stillborn, without a heart.

If I'm not mistaken, babies born without brains are anencephaleptic. These babies, when not stillborn, die within a few days of being born. Autistic people are generally not anencephaleptic.

In any event, I'm pretty sure anencephaly and autism wouldn't exist if we were intelligently designed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocephalus 

Look who's talking.

Not really much of a difference between the two, except a 17 year old is even more cocky yet doesn't know anything significant more than a 14 year old does.

As long as you get your point across and don't be a dick in the process most people will ignore this....

Quite the contrary.

Uh huh. Now perhaps you should go learn what evolution actually is, instead of arguing against the typically dumb ass theist falsehood of what evolution is.

And since evolution isn't random, that is what we would expect to see.

You're projecting human qualities onto a system which obviously has these patterns because of the way matter and energy interact with spacetime and gravity, amongst other mechanisms. There's nothing intelligent about it.

Nature is not an entity. And it obviously isn't random, otherwise we wouldn't have laws of physics.

You're deluding yourself into thinking that a proves b, when all a proves is a.

Nope.

More delusions. Conciousness is the result of chemical and kinetic energy interactions within matter. It is not some free floating piece of energy that sustains itself and keeps itself intact, regardless of how much you might wish otherwise.

What the bleep do we know proved that the makers didn't even know bleep, let alone quantum physics or anything else of a realistic nature.

I already have a pretty good idea, and I'd suggest due to your previous suggestions that you don't.

You're the one ignoring facts. And even worse, you're presenting fiction and delusion as fact.

What do UFO's have to do with the topic? Ah well, if aliens really are watching us, I'm sure they're getting a hell of a laugh out of people like you.

Seriously, what drugs are you on? The Mayan calendar resets back at square one at the point it ends. There's no continuity problem, because the damn thing lasts for so long. So what if you have two seemingly identical dates? One of them was before the gun and the other was in the midst of the space age. Pretty easy to figure out which one you're talking about...
And seriously, it's more like the y2k bug. Were you perhaps one of those who thought the world would end simply because a few programmers were lazy and used 2 digits instead of 4? Did you think that god made those programmers decide to make it a two digit date instead of a four digit date, and that he was telling people when the world would end? What about when we get to the year 10,000? Our computers will be fucked yet again.

You don't even know what a fifth dimension is it would seem. The idea that your 4 dimensional mind would be able to comprehend let alone percieve it is ludicrous. Perhaps if you were a physics major, but you obviously aren't, since you disbelieve in the facts of evolution.

Shrooms and weed aren't nearly powerful enough to make someone believe in this crap. You must already be half wacked naturally, or be doing a lot stronger drugs than the ones you mention.

Prove it then. Show me your god.

Nope.
*Google search*
You mean the self proclaimed psychic? Rofl. Scam artist. Like they all are. Can't say I'm surprised you fall for that crap.

Yes, you definately are on drugs. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

So? Some people even older than that used to throw virgins into volcanoes thinking the volcano wouldn't be mad at them anymore. I guess they were even more right, since they were more ancient. At least, according to your fucked up way of thinking.

They knew less than we know today. By an order of magnitude beyond your comprehension.

Quite laughable. Holograms are very recent concepts. They are certainly not 3000 years old.

Possibly, which would show a god isn't needed, and probably doesn't exist.

Highly unlikely. There'd have to be forces of nature we haven't percieved for that to even be possible, not to mention that we would have had to come from nothing in order for it to work.

The bible is all fiction, not alchemy. Do you even know what alchemy is? Since when did the bible turn or tell others how to turn lead into gold?

How and why, in that order.

The fact that we exist is proof that there is intelligence in the universe. Our intelligence.

Your magic is more valid than there's? WRONG

You really are on the very edge of sanity. I suggest you check yourself into a clinic fast, before you go postal.

Some people might. Not all do. And spirituality does not require one to bow down to fictional gods and magical claptrap.

This is one of the only true things I've seen so far in your post.

Your self refuting stupidity is truly astounding.

Not really no.

I know my history thank you very much. Well enough at least.

Idiots.

No, you want us to be raving lunatics thrown in an asylum with others like yourself. No thanks.

I really do not feel any inclination to do so.

Delusions.

Say what?

And we've come full circle to the 17 year old know it all who really knows less than my 6 year old neice.

I'm going to skip your next post because it was really to sad to bother with.

Links are not necessarily evidence.

Unfortunately for you I learned about this condition a month or two ago. And you are quite wrong. Every person who has been diagnosed with that disease has a brain. Every single one of them. They're just smaller than other peoples. Mostly due to compression, but some poor development as well. In plain and simple english, if you don't have at least enough of a brain to pump your heart and expand your lungs and motivate your body's systems then you'll be dead in a heartbeat.

Wrong on both counts. I've seen both radio waves and the air. I just needed help, since my eyes don't see in the complete spectrum on their own.

Not even remotely accurate. Are you perhaps working with a science textbook from the 1930s?

A computer is not intelligent. Not yet anyway. It's merely a storage device capable of performing mathematical equations. Nothing more.

Sure it does. All the time. I tell it to jump, it just sits there. Ah but maybe I expect too much. I tell it to run a program, it crashes. Again, maybe I expect too much.

No it isn't. Unless you want to equate the terms evolve and change, in which case your earlier statement about evolution not happening has just been refuted in your own words. Either way, you're kind of screwed on this one.

That would require a goal, which evolution is incapable of having, making this assertion quite laughable.

As much luck and circumstance as anything. Actually strike that. Luck and circumstance is all there was to it.

Prove it.

Prove it.

I bet you're a Star Wars fan. So am I. I just know what's real and what's fiction.

False. Having a "reciever" to a storehouse of all knowledge would require super powerful processors to distinguish and sort such information. It would require even more techniques to restrict the information recieved to that which was experienced. And it would go completely off line as the signal was blocked for periods of time. Strangely enough, there has never been recordings of the entire species sitting on it's collective ass drooling until the next download arrives.

Ironically, they're about to loose control of people for very different reasons than those you imagine.

It is.

You have yet to show any evidence of such. As has everyone who has come before you. I'm not holding my breath.

That is not necessarily conciousness, though I agree they respond to stimulai far better than the average vegan would like you to believe in their misguided and irrational quest against vegetation.

Sure it does. Makes a remarkable excuse for war, poverty, and a number of other horrors we inflict upon ourselves.

Not necessarily.

Why not? There's a lot more hope in a universe where our species can grow and grow instead of one where some asshole god says a word and everything ends.

Your argument seems more hollow to me than atheism can possibly be to you.

Why? You need some kind of bullshit mystical crap in order for your life to be worth living? You have no friends? You have no family? You have noone and nothing that you care about? Then you should just kill yourself anyway.

Quote: Masterjoe

Paralyzed People Use Mind Control
30-May-2003

German neuroscientist Niels Birbaumer is teaching 11 paralyzed patients who can't even blink their eyes how to use their brain waves to control a computer. They've learned to change the electrical signals coming from their brains by visualizing an arrow about to be shot from a bow or a runner crouched at the starting line. The electrical brain waves generated by these types of thoughts can used to control a cursor that selects letters to spell words, meaning these formerly mute people can now communicate

I think I heard about this.  I saw this on some TV program but can't, for the life of me, remember the name of the program.  I remember the narrator was Alan Alda.

I agree.  If he/she were honest then he/she would have done this:

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/PTO-20030724-000002.html

Note in the article Birbaumer uses a device/machine not telepathy.

 As far as being born without a brain.  Well I remember a few years back there was a girl born without a brain.  The medical professionals did say they thought it was because the mother didn't get enough folic acid.  That's what I remember but don't quote me on it LOL.  The baby died within hours.  I expected that because I truly think the body cannot live without a brain.

Hydrocephalus , at least as i have it, is an enlargment of the ventricles of the brain. These are inside the brain and are filled with csv. There is 2 types of hydro, communicating and non-communicating. I have communcating and it is when you just produce to much csv. Non-communcating is when you have a blockage.

The above picture is copied from emedicine.com.

The arrow points to the ventricles i speak of. This image is basically exaclty how mine looks. I thought mine might be worse.