Christians Won Court Case: Now Upset About Aftermath

healthy.addictions
Bronze Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 2007-01-16
User is offlineOffline
Christians Won Court Case: Now Upset About Aftermath

Stolen from the friendlyathiest's blog... (http://www.friendlyatheist.com/)

    06.14.07

Christians Won Court Case; Now Upset About Aftermath

Posted in Friendly Atheist at 5:16 pm by FriendlyAtheist

Ed Brayton gives you the backstory about what’s happening in the Albemarle School District in Virginia:

… Most schools have a system for sending home flyers to parents informing them of school events. Most schools also allow outside groups, like the Scouts or the YMCA, use that system to get the word out about summer camps and the like.

In 2001, a Christian group tried to use a school’s system to inform parents of one of their events and they were refused. They filed suit and the 4th Circuit ruled in their favor, saying that if a school is going to allow some community groups to use that system, they cannot engage in viewpoint discrimination in choosing which groups to allow in. This was not unexpected; it fits with a long line of rulings on limited public fora that say, in essence, “allow one, allow all.”

So everyone involved should have been happy, right?

They weren’t when they learned other groups were going to take advantage of this ruling.

The uproar began last winter when a flyer urging students to go to a “Pagan ritual” was distributed.

Now, another handout is causing some Christian groups to rethink the ruling. This one is from the atheist summer camp, Camp Quest.

“Do I have to send this out?” Diane Behrens says she asked the county attorney. Behrens, who decides what can go home in backpack mail, says she was advised that unless county policy limits distribution to local events, the schools had to send it home.

Not everyone passed out the brochure, though:

The teachers’ representative told [World Net Daily] several teachers simply didn’t hand out the latest promotion, and of course now fear retaliation if their supervisors find out.

“They do put a disclaimer there, that the school doesn’t support it,” the [anonymous teachers’] representative said. “But we are expected to send this stuff home in childrens’ backpacks. It’s still coming from me and my classroom.”

“I took a stand and did not send it home,” the representative said. “Other teachers did the same thing.”

And the teachers who suppressed the brochure are clearly wrong. Mat Staver, the Christian Liberty Counsel founder, agrees. “He sees it as a freedom of speech issue: parents are free to read the fliers– or throw them away.”

Camp Quest’s president feels she might as well use the ruling as a way to get word about the camp to the public:

Amanda Metskas, president of the Camp Quest board, defends spreading the word about the Ohio and Michigan camps because children can fly there directly from Charlottesville.

“I don’t know if public schools should be sending home fliers for outside organizations,” says Metskas. “But if they can, it makes sense for us to take advantage of that opportunity. We have a small budget for promotion.”

School officials are finally going to meet over this issue. Behrens said that the policy would be revisited today.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State has a good posting on this issue as well.


Jacob Cordingley
SuperfanBronze Member
Jacob Cordingley's picture
Posts: 1484
Joined: 2007-03-18
User is offlineOffline
It just shows the hypocrisy

It just shows the hypocrisy and double standards of Christians. It's ok for them to try and spread their lies, but when it comes to other, probably more benign groups, pagans and non-religious groups, atheists then it's an abomination! WTF!


LeftofLarry
RRS local affiliateScientist
LeftofLarry's picture
Posts: 1199
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
Jacob Cordingley wrote: It

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
It just shows the hypocrisy and double standards of Christians. It's ok for them to try and spread their lies, but when it comes to other, probably more benign groups, pagans and non-religious groups, atheists then it's an abomination! WTF!

 

This underscores their undying hunger for theocracy.  They use the constitution to pursue their causes but then wipe their asses with it when it comes to dissenting or alternate viewpoints.  Personally, I think the teacher who did not send the fliers out about the atheist camp should be fired.  Plain and simple.  Education is a wonderful thing when not clouded through the goggles of theism.  If they are not willing to abide by their own rules, what other rules are they breaking?  What are they teaching in the classrooms?

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
They really are hypocrites.

They really are hypocrites.


Bigg
Bigg's picture
Posts: 130
Joined: 2007-06-10
User is offlineOffline
MattShizzle wrote: They

MattShizzle wrote:
They really are hypocrites.

Of course they are,its one of the requirements of becoming a
True Christian™

"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions."--Frater Ravus


zntneo
Superfan
Posts: 565
Joined: 2007-01-25
User is offlineOffline
You know this makes me

You know this makes me angry. but at least this post helped me find out about one thing - camp quest. Sounds awesome.  
Reminds me of something that happened when i was a pagan at my university.  We have this display cases in one of our buildings. Christians put things in there ALL the time. The pagan community decided they wanted to put something in there. We did. They had protests! People where standing outside with signs. I don't remember what they said but boy did it piss me off.
OH and i should say i go to a Public instituion. For anyone that knows it i go to Iowa State University. 


jcgadfly
Superfan
Posts: 6791
Joined: 2006-07-18
User is offlineOffline
They really didn't expect

They really didn't expect this to bite them in the ass?

Amazing what delusions the God belief brings... 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


stillmatic
stillmatic's picture
Posts: 288
Joined: 2007-03-29
User is offlineOffline
LeftofLarry wrote: Jacob

LeftofLarry wrote:

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
It just shows the hypocrisy and double standards of Christians. It's ok for them to try and spread their lies, but when it comes to other, probably more benign groups, pagans and non-religious groups, atheists then it's an abomination! WTF!

 

This underscores their undying hunger for theocracy.  They use the constitution to pursue their causes but then wipe their asses with it when it comes to dissenting or alternate viewpoints.  Personally, I think the teacher who did not send the fliers out about the atheist camp should be fired.  Plain and simple.  Education is a wonderful thing when not clouded through the goggles of theism.  If they are not willing to abide by their own rules, what other rules are they breaking?  What are they teaching in the classrooms?

QFT

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien


BGH
BGH's picture
Posts: 2772
Joined: 2006-09-28
User is offlineOffline
I heard about this on the

I heard about this on the "Dogma Free America" podcast, it is a pretty interesting and ironic story.


Piper2000ca
Piper2000ca's picture
Posts: 138
Joined: 2006-12-27
User is offlineOffline
This is so typical, they

This is so typical, they want freedom and rights for themselves, but want to deny it to those they don't agree with.  Just one of the many reasons that I am an atheist.


Vastet
atheistBloggerSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13234
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
On the bright side, it's a

On the bright side, it's a nice thing to be able to point to when christians whine about being discriminated against.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 16424
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is onlineOnline
healthy.addictions

healthy.addictions wrote:
Stolen from the friendlyathiest's blog... (http://www.friendlyatheist.com/)

06.14.07

Christians Won Court Case; Now Upset About Aftermath

Posted in Friendly Atheist at 5:16 pm by FriendlyAtheist

Ed Brayton gives you the backstory about what’s happening in the Albemarle School District in Virginia:

… Most schools have a system for sending home flyers to parents informing them of school events. Most schools also allow outside groups, like the Scouts or the YMCA, use that system to get the word out about summer camps and the like.

In 2001, a Christian group tried to use a school’s system to inform parents of one of their events and they were refused. They filed suit and the 4th Circuit ruled in their favor, saying that if a school is going to allow some community groups to use that system, they cannot engage in viewpoint discrimination in choosing which groups to allow in. This was not unexpected; it fits with a long line of rulings on limited public fora that say, in essence, “allow one, allow all.”

So everyone involved should have been happy, right?

They weren’t when they learned other groups were going to take advantage of this ruling.

The uproar began last winter when a flyer urging students to go to a “Pagan ritual” was distributed.

Now, another handout is causing some Christian groups to rethink the ruling. This one is from the atheist summer camp, Camp Quest.

“Do I have to send this out?” Diane Behrens says she asked the county attorney. Behrens, who decides what can go home in backpack mail, says she was advised that unless county policy limits distribution to local events, the schools had to send it home.

Not everyone passed out the brochure, though:

The teachers’ representative told [World Net Daily] several teachers simply didn’t hand out the latest promotion, and of course now fear retaliation if their supervisors find out.

“They do put a disclaimer there, that the school doesn’t support it,” the [anonymous teachers’] representative said. “But we are expected to send this stuff home in childrens’ backpacks. It’s still coming from me and my classroom.”

“I took a stand and did not send it home,” the representative said. “Other teachers did the same thing.”

And the teachers who suppressed the brochure are clearly wrong. Mat Staver, the Christian Liberty Counsel founder, agrees. “He sees it as a freedom of speech issue: parents are free to read the fliers– or throw them away.”

Camp Quest’s president feels she might as well use the ruling as a way to get word about the camp to the public:

Amanda Metskas, president of the Camp Quest board, defends spreading the word about the Ohio and Michigan camps because children can fly there directly from Charlottesville.

“I don’t know if public schools should be sending home fliers for outside organizations,” says Metskas. “But if they can, it makes sense for us to take advantage of that opportunity. We have a small budget for promotion.”

School officials are finally going to meet over this issue. Behrens said that the policy would be revisited today.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State has a good posting on this issue as well.

In regards of theist mentality, which is far from "E-Pluribus Unum, this reminds me of  Metallica lyric:

"You can do it your own way, just as it's how I say".

What these morons dont want to face is that they dont understand that the Constitution protects them as well.

Everything is all nice and  neat untill someone pipes up and says, "Hey, if you can do that then I can too".

Now, here are the options.

1. Let one in, let all in.

2. Keep one out, keep all out.

I do think it is a case by case bassis. But that is predicated on the community. If a Baptist were to object to a Jewish reading of the Torrah, then that same Baptist should refrain from using the same property for the usage of their sectarian club.

My solution is quite simple and Thomas Jefferson got it. His attituded was quite simple. Believe whatever you want, fine by him. BUT, what has been lost in history has been hijacked by propagandists. Their attitude is, "Ok believe what you want, but know your place, and it is at the back of the bus".

My attitude is the same. "Believe what you want", thats fine. But dont presume govement law should be based on that narrow sectarian view.

It is much better when people of different opinions seek overlap and recoginize their neighbor as an individual, rather than a potential party or religious member.

This is not new to American history. "More" is the rally cry by Christians. But what ends up happening is "who's version" should be that "more" for everyone. Thats when the shit hits the fan.

Not suprised in the least, but very happy that reality has come home to roost. If you dont want to fund your neighbor's beliefs then dont ask govement to fund yours. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog


The Patrician
The Patrician's picture
Posts: 474
Joined: 2007-05-09
User is offlineOffline
Quite an amusing tale.  A

Quite an amusing tale.  A case of 'be careful what you wish for' if ever there was one.


Ophios
Ophios's picture
Posts: 905
Joined: 2006-09-19
User is offlineOffline
I would help if many

I would help if many christians here would get past the thinking of "Any color but black"


Apokalipse
Apokalipse's picture
Posts: 210
Joined: 2006-08-27
User is offlineOffline
Ophios wrote: I would help

Ophios wrote:
I would help if many christians here would get past the thinking of "Any color but black"
more like "any colour, as long as it's ours"