Welcome! You will do just fine here as long as you are honest and straightforward.

Welcome aboard! 

 

Huh?!

How can I hate something that doesn't exist?

Apparently I was worng about us needing a better PR guy...

Welcome, you are welcome to come and go at you leisure. Just make sure to read the forum rules and as a request, if someone asks you a question please respond (i don't know and I don't have time are valid answers). Peruse the our selection and make yourself heard. First lesson: not everyone on this site is an atheist (my gf Wishkah311 for one). Second, Do not make assumptions. If you have questions about peoples viewpoints, ask. Don't assume you know what happens to you and umption. Also, we don't hate god. That would be like me saying you hate Zeus. (Which I'm assuming you don't believe in...I know I'm breaking my own rules). Please not prosteltyzing, we know where a church is and most of us actually grew up in one (or several). We know where god is supposed to be if we want to find him. I like discussing religion and my lack there of with new people, it's the only way to grow and learn.

you probably want to start a second post since this one will probably be clogged here shortly with introductions, but once you do that I'll be glad to post.

[edited:for formatting] 

Thanks to all.
Ninja, please reread carefully what I wrote.  "Some of you..."
And again, I offer friendship and an ear to any young woman....
I am not a church; yes, I am part of one.  I do agree that you can find a church if you'd like to do that, but I was speaking about having online conversations with any young women who need a friend.
Thanks again and I'll be reading - good nite from here!

This is going to get weirder, I can feel it.

Excellent answer, Roisin Dubh.

heh. Imagine that.

I'm pretty confident when I say Everyone is welcome. After all, if it weren't for the theists then there wouldn't be a reason for a site such as this.

Can't hate that which is undefined. I'm an atheist simply because I lack a belief in any god(s). There are no other qualifying definitions no matter what you've been told.

Me too. However, I don't have to like their beliefs.

It's a lot of reading. I wouldn't recommend looking for things among the most recent posts. Try relevant forum topics with regard to your initial questions.

I think you'll find young women devoid of god belief are much stronger than they are given credit for being. It takes a brave person(any gender) to stand up for themselves in our society at a young age.

If you don't mind my asking, how old are you and would you prefer the freethinkingteens.com site instead?

Ditto. I'm often very shocked that people have this idea that atheists were 'manufactured' rather than starting out in much the same way that you are now.

Many of us come from a 'christian' background simply by virtue of being born into a nation full of christianity. For some of us, it took a long time to finally 'shrug off' the mental load of crap that is theism in general. If you've been told that atheism is something that one must be indoctrinated into then I'm afraid you have been lied to yet again.

It happens a lot. Most of the time we'll be able to link you to the relevant data or previous posts.

Yes. It could always be better, but happy is sometimes just freedom of mind.

Some of the same things that make you happy I'm sure. My children. My career. Occasionally, my spouse. lol.

I would be happier if people didn't try to tell me what they think would make me happy. If people used their minds for thinking rather than praying. If people could just for a few minutes analyze themselves and say, "Why do I really need to believe in god?" then I would be happier.

OR, if every televangelist sent ME money to do good works. I have no need for a jet or a limo or a mansion on the beach. I'd get a better feeling from providing medicine, education, jobs, and housing for the needy than I would slipping into my heated hot tub to prepare my sermon for the next day after smoking meth, getting a handjob from a masseuse, and beating my wife.

I wouldn't even force the needy to pray or go to church for help.

Give a person a fish and they'll eat for a day.Teach them how to fish and they'll eat for a lifetime.Tell them to pray and wait for the fish and they'll eventually STARVE.

Good deal. I'll check back.

YouTube is "damned"? Unless this is one of those anti-semitic churches that refers to is as "JewTube" I can't see how a church can call YouTube "damned".
One forum has a "No Theist" clause. The rest are open and welcoming. Be ready to defend your beliefs, though. If you check out my blog, I posted recently why I became atheist. That said, I don't hate the created god, or its followers. I hate the creators of the gods, for they used their creations to control the masses. I also hate the modern followers of these beings who have similar goals. I really don't see...wait a minute. Are you with the International Church of Christ? (or whatever it's been renamed)
You may be an incredible asset to the forum. Who knows?
No prob, bob More or less. More friends would make me happier, some lovin' would help, and a better job, maybe. And going back to school.
rock on!

I have been a Christian for many years, and I realize I will likely not be welcomed here in this forum.

That's not true. Only annoying people are not welcome. And there are plenty of annoying atheists and theists.

 I would like to learn more about some of you individually, why you are atheists,

I am an atheist because there is no rational ontology or epistemology to beleif in God. Classical theism is totally incoherent and based on circular reasoning and wishful thinking fallacy. Non-materialist (ie vitalist) philosophy has no coherency because it has no sane definition.

 what makes you hate God, and such.

Excuse me. This is complete nonsense. If you look up atheist in the dictionary you will find "someome who does not believe in a deity". Last time I checked, it is a logical contradiction to hate something which does not exist.

I HATE 2+2=5

I HATE SQUARE CIRCLES

I HATE SANTA!

see?

  I LOVE people.

Well. Yes, it would be rather disconcerting if you did not.

  would love to learn from you and study some of what you are saying here.

Good.

 I would also like to put myself out there to be a friend to any young woman/women (sorry guys) who is hurting, depressed, angry, or just needing a friend to talk to.

We aren't atheists because we are depressed. What a silly thing to say.

 I don't think I'm this incredible asset to your forum or anything, but I feel confident in who I am and how I can empathize with what some of you may be experiencing in your lives.

See above. What leads you to this absurd non sequiter? Atheism is not the result of depression or emotional trauma in one's life that causes one to "abandon God". It is a rational conclusion about the nature of the cosmos.

 I apologize if I post something that has already been discussed elsewhere.

No. I think this is a first...

  Are you truly happy?  If so, what defines your happiness?

Lets see. Great life. Awesome job. A career that I love (same thing), everything I could ever want in life. My health, loving family etc etc.

 

Your smile scares me.

 

Other then that welcome to RRS. You are as welcome as we are, if we ever do make fun of you it will be pointing out a grammer mistake, or a contridiction you said, or a falacy. Which in reality is not making fun of you, just pointing something out.

 

However, you won't be here long most likely, in my expierence most theists stay, post a few threads and when they keep getting proven wrong eventually end up either spaming nonsense then leaving, or just fading away. 

 

I do not hate god, I guess you could say I hate the idea of a god. I just simply do not lean on belief, if there is no proof for something, rationally it does not exist. Even though it may still exist, the rational thing is to not believe until such proof is supplied. Same stance on god for me.

 

Again, welcome to RRS. 

The answer to all of these thoughts is yes. I can't tell you who each is personally, but I have no doubt that there is someone on these boards who is adopted(and not in contact with his/her bio. parents), we have all endured pain and suffering(do you seriously think all atheists have skirted pain and suffering all of our collective lives?! Come on.) , and I speak from experience on the near-death thing. There are a few mothers on the site as well. You have much to learn. Of course atheist parents dont view their children as meaningless. That's a horrible misconception. Atheists, for that matter, dont view life in general as meaningless, despite our lack of a belief in heavenly rewards. OK, you claim to have had 10-15 friends who are atheists, correct? Are they all miserable? Do they view their children as meaningless? Atheists have as much or as little dignity as anybody else, and we view our purpose(in general, not all atheists will agree with me here) as to do the best we can to make the world a better place. You do not need god to accomplish this, and if you disagree, read up on the essays on the fallacy of religion-dependent morality before you respond.

This is an illogical argument. I am humbled all the time by things that are so far unexplainable, and I am sure there are things out there that I cannot yet "see." The argument that god is the thing out there that I cannot see has nothing to support it.
That's because you, like many theist visitors that came before you, assume that we must be sad, pathetic lonely people because we dont dump our responsibility to be good people on to a fictional father figure. Most people here have very healthy and active social lives, and if you keep this condescending attitude up(as much as you may believe you're just being nice) you will no doubt be sent to sleep with the sugarless one.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but I'll see. 

My biological parents are one of the greatest influences on my life. They both happen to be theists, but religion was never an underlying factor in my upbringing. They simply encouraged my learning.

My 16 year old cousin died in a car accident. My father was once an a verbally abusive alchoholic. I live in a country where theism is continually bombarded at me and assimilates itself where it doesn't belong. That's a lot of emotional pain.

Physical pain? Hmmm.. Broke an arm, wisdom teeth, almost died as a baby, but I can't recall that.

No, I have a penis. 

 

Are you trying to imply that atheists lack the ability to have human emotion? I argue that life is MORE precious to an atheist than to a theist. We believe that after you are dead, that's it. (At least I do) Each and every life then becomes that much more important on a human level.

No. And whoever told you this is a liar.

You discipline them, because causing harm upon others is wrong.

STOP!! (Run and try to save them if you can),

When another human you have feelings toward is shamed, you say comforting words. They don't have to be about some imaginary man in the sky.

Yes. I have a lot of dignity and a sense of purpose. But my purpose and morality come from within. Not because I'm afraid of making a supernatural being angry, but because I hold myself accountable for my actions. If I make nothing out of myself, then I wasted away the small amount of time I had on a small spec floating in a vast universe that I can most likely never fully comprehend. 

I also take offense to the idea that atheists place no value on life. My belief in evolution and the "accident" of the events that lead to life have made me appreciate every living organism on this planet all the more. It's much more beautiful to me when I look at life for what it is, an evolutionary pattern of mutation and gradual change that eventually produced a variety of organisms on this planet.

 Let me ask you. Why do you think atheists are depressed or angry, or emotionally traumatized? I feel that it's quite the opposite. I feel like I have a much happier life without the need for an imaginary friend or ficticious ideals to guide me. I'm having trouble finding the words to explain myself further today, so I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry if it seemed rude or condescending.  The reason I asked is because I see a lot of Richard Dawkins promo here, and just a few days ago I listened to a speaker talk about how he was asked recently in Washington DC at a conference how he can live with a dualistic view of truth when human nature and experience seems to contradict it... and he said he "just does... otherwise life would be intolerable."  I thought to myself, "If most atheists would only believe in what their human experience shows them, then would they agree with him that you just live with it?"   Can you still be happy if you don't live with it? 
If you say you are perfectly happy in your life, who am I to doubt that?    
My questions did not come from an arrogant spirit.  My beliefs about truth and the nature of the world and God would possibly be perceived as arrogance, but the questions about your personal exprerience were just that - questions.

Why would morality scare you? You have the same morality do you not? Does your actions not come from within you? I get my morality from the simple thought of "I do not like getting X done to me, so why should I do X to you". Also, if it takes a punishment to make someone good, that scares me. Becuase if you have to be threatened by hell to be a good person, you are not a good person. You may do good things, however you would never do them without hell. Without hell, or a punishment after death for religions, everyone would be horrible people. The only reason you follow those "moral" guide lines, which were stolen from other religions, and ideas by the way, is because you fear hell. There is no other reason in your religion to be good unless you fear hell, or you have good coming from within you.

christianty has such a misanthropic loathing of humanity.... You really can't imagine that a person couldn't be moral on his own?

 

And yet you 'love' people? You love them, but you see them as worthless.... methinks there's a contradiction there somewhere.... 

 

I personally feel proud that my morality comes from within.  It means much more to be kind when you are doing it for kindness sake, and not for fear of punishment. 

Remember, morality is subjective.  It differs from culture to culture. 

Your posts are coming across as very arrogant and smug. With this type of attitude there are bound to be many irritated posters.

Initially I was mistaken when reading your first post. I honestly thought you might be a theist who would give fellow humans a little more credit even though we do not hold the same religious beliefs. I was wrong.

Glad you are learning.

No. Yes, three times. Menengitis, being hit by a car as a pedestrian, kidney infection. All three times doctors who worked hard and studied helped me, not prayer. No, I am male. My son means everything to me and to infer otherwise because of lack of religious belief is ignorant. This question is going to piss off many people here, you have a very smug attitude in this inquiry. No! To ASSume so is highly prideful. Yes! Do not do that, that hurts the other child and you would not like it if someone did that to you. Do not do that because the cars are travelling at such speeds you will likely be very hurt. Shamed how? I talk to him about people, and things people say. Yes, you do not need magic friends to have dignity and purpose. You had a magic friend once I am sure, when you quit believing in him I am sure you didn't lose your dignity or purpose. The magic friend... Santa Clause. I do not hold to this definition. I am a agnostic atheist, I do not know if there is a god out there somewhere, but until I have been shown valid evidence I am not going to invoke one either. I can tell you though... the christian god certainly does not exist.

 

Yet you hold that people are in fact worthless on their own...

That's not loving people. That's pitying them.

 

 I did not know that, I figured it was more of an envriomental factor. Thanks, deludedgod! Awesome post!

Bingo. External morality is really just obedience, and obedience is often nothing more than mere prudence.

Obey me, or be punished.

Obey me, and be rewarded.

If the punishment is dangerous enough, you'll give in. How is that praiseworthy?

If the reward is powerful enough, you'll follow my bidding.

How is that praiseworthy?

The psychologist Kohlberg demonstrates that action taken for the sake of punishment or reward (external morality) is the most immature of all possible moral sytems. It is the morality of young children, incapable of moral reasoning on their own.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/christians_must_steal_from_secular_morality

 Christians, in order to actually be moral, must steal their morals from secular sytems. My essay above demonstrates that.

Quite true, my essay above demonstrates that. In fact, the bible can only undermine actual morality. Here's a brief excerpt:

The bible actually undermines the concept of morality. It holds that

1) All 'sins' are equivalent. (Do you think stealing a pencil is the same as rape? Both are sins worthy of hell in christianity)

2) All positive moral behavior is immaterial, because works cannot save a person.

3) There is an infinite reward for blind obedience (heaven) which undermines any intrinsic motivations for behavior. If you are doing something 'good' for an infinite reward, well then, you're receiving far more back than you're giving!

4) There is an infinite punishment for disobedience, which is a mockery of justice, seeing as a) an omnipotent creator and sustainer must be perfectly, ultimately responsible for all actions (See my entry on the incoherence of god and the problem of evil) and b) no finite act by a finite being can logically incur 'infinite punishment', seeing as 'punishment' itself is necessarily finite in nature (i.e. punishment is defined as the addition of an aversive stimuli, or removal of a pleasant stimuli, that alters future behavior).

5) Finally, the bible claims that all people are damned from birth simply by being born, meaning that man is thoroughly invalidated as a moral agent. This is a mockery of justice and reason itself.

 

 

This presents a real philosophical dilemma... I do think that we are more than the sum total of our evolutionary drives... however, there's no doubt that this plays a fundamental role in our moral systems.... 

Your concept of what atheism, as well as theism, actually are is wrong. If you want to know why, read some of the articles and FAQs here and on other sites. Watch some explanations on YouTube. That is, if you are sincere about wanting to understand. If, however, you think asking questions is the thin side to a wedge of proselytizing to a captive audience, you are deeply mistaken.

I find her posts to be a projection of what she thinks about theism and atheism. She's focused almost entirely on emotions, on how a belief makes one feel, what matters is whether one is happy or sad.

So she's let us know that for her, these decisions are based on emotions... religion makes you happy! Atheism is sad! If you are angry, you'll 'hate god'... if you are happy, you'll love god. We can call it the 'god of circumstance': It's the 'god' of Elie Wiesel - when you're in the concentration camp, there is no god. If you survive the camp - thank god!

Another way to see it: as we all remember from childhood, 'make believe' is fun; the real world is sad.

 

 

 

wonder if any of them have ever looked into the beautiful eyes of their son or daughter and been able to live with the notion that this person doesn't really mean anything at all.

What a crass debasement of the human experience. Humanity is the most intelligent and creative species on the entire planet. No other species has been able to build upon its knowledge so thoroughly generation after generation. We are able to empathize and learn how to cooperate in sophisticated ways. We are working toward our own betterment, more tolerant attitudes, more humane practices. I see meaning in the thing in itself. The human experience, human improvement, fulfilling our potential. You would attribute all of this to something external, unproven and unnecessary. I would not. That is the difference between you and I.

Magilum, I am sincere.  I wanted to know more about individuals and how you are happy as atheists in your own experience.   Todangst, I will take time to read your essay.  My quick response about obedience is that for me my efforts to try to be a good person come from the gratitude I have for waking up and breathing every day and not getting what I deserve.  And my gratitude comes from receiving pure mercy with no strings attached (yes, this could seem to mock justice but in a totally different sense) from the one who could punish me but decided not to.  I realize this is a foreign concept to someone who dismisses the notion that we are accountable to someone other than ourselves.    How does rescuing someone without a life jacket from a sinking ship prove them to be worthless?
I'm not trying to cop-out, but I have some little children that need my attention now.  Have a nice day all.