I have class tonight and I can't wait to hear what everyone will have to say about this.  Rutgers is a pretty diversified University.

Anyway, I think the difference between Imus and Dave Chappelle, for example, is that Dave Chappelle is using racism in a comedic context.  He uses racism to point out stereotypes.  Have you ever seen The Boondocks?  I would even venture to say that others get away with it because of 'artistic license'. Imus, on the other hand, is supposed to be a commentator of sorts, a reporter in a broad sense.  At least, that's my understanding of it. Plus, the comment was a bit inflammatory. 

Disliking someone based soley on the color of their skin is stupid.  It just doesn't make sense.  Everyone has their prejudices, but to flat out despise a group of people purely because of their race, gender, sexual orientation or religion (or lack therof) is just plain dumb.

Background for those who may not know what's going on:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/18035749/ 

I find it ironic that the usual suspects (Jackson and Sharpton) are the leaders of the charge to have him fired when they both have made far more outrageous racial remarks.

I would have to agree with you.

There are several factors to this.

1. Imus grew up in a time period where such comments had no consequences. This isn't an excuse but nearly every person I have ever met in this age bracket tends to just say it without thinking. Here in Indiana where the KKK has deep roots, it's hard to get away from. It's everything I can do not to fly off the handle. 

2. Children nowadays aren't taught of their ancestorial history, let alone much of any OTHER history. When they're using such phrases with little to no correction it eventually becomes "popular."

3. Pop culture in the 80's and 90's had a lot to do with the "ho" attitudes spurring from music that came from an angry culture of young men tired of the system and their environments and a number of other factors. Women weren't the cause of the problem, just an easy target. Dr. Dre, Easy-E, Ghetto Boys all come to mind. 

4.  Women have attempted for centuries to be considered equal to men but the Judeo-Christian view of submissive femininity is a stereotype that I still see today in women even in their 20's and even recent reality television shows (i.e. the wife swap with Jinxie comes to mind) show how religion still encourages such behavior in women. As long as society and religion portrays them in a weak light it will always be a factor...just take a look at the early suffragettes and read some of the writings by the Grimke sisters who questioned the very foundations of Christianity and it's continual oppression of women. Mary Daly quite aptly points out that until the paternalistic and masculine ideology of "god" and a "male" savior is removed, it will never cease. The more I learn the more I believe this view is very much on target. 

5. Students need to be taught both civics and humanities. I've attempted to address the situation with every representative in the state of Indiana and every attempt was thrown back in my face. The ex pro tem said that I should "visit other countries to see what racism is..." when I told him of a friend who was told just last year that her little boy wasn't allowed to play with another because their races were different.  How's that for addressing the issue? The only two individuals who responded was a black representative from Merriville and my own rep who is Jewish and both agreed with me but said they have, too, tried without luck. No one else thought it was important. Until we take action to teach our children proper behavior when our adults show such callous behavior of their own and likewise teach it, it's pointless.  

I tottally dissagree. If we are going to go after Imus or anyone who ever "offended" anyone, we'd all be silenced. If you understand the context of the history of his show, and others like him, such as Howard Stern, or shows like South Park, you'd understand that it was just a joke. Maybe a bad joke, maybe not well delivered or explained.

If Imus were a truely hatefull person such as say a Fred Phelps I doubt seriously he would have survived in corperate media as long as he has. 

The same sensorship crap was aimed at people like Larry Flint about indencency. The creators of "Married with Children" were attacked and accused of being "offensive" toward women.

Where has this country gone? Are that sensitive that we cant take a joke? Atheists are demonized constantly by mass media, and those who truely hate us should be faught. But I am damn sure not going to demand a boycot or removal of South Park because they dipicted atheists as pooping out of their mouths. I am not going to demand that that Comedy Central remove South Park because they depicted Richard Dawkins as screwing Mrs. Garrison.

Badly deliverd joke? Maybe. But Iso what. How much do we here crack on religion left and right? Who the fuck is anyone here to decide what is truely hatefull vs a merely "offensive " joke.

Being offensive does not make one hatefull. It merely means someone didnt like what you said. I do get tired of people in general, be they atheist or theist demanding that we never fart in public. If we ourselves value the freedom to say controversal things ourselves, and we do, then we must afford the same rights to those who might offend us.

If there is anything that I truely hate, it is the idea that the silence of others who might offend you is a solution to solving social division.

"I may vehemetly dissagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltair.

With freedom comes responsibility. Being a baby about life is not responsibility. Wanting people to get along should not come at the cost of telling others that taboos must exist in order to maintain peace.

Imus is a coward in my eyes. I would rather lose my job than bow to anyone who tells me that I sould be fired for a joke merely because it offended them when they are too insecure to take the time to understand the context of what was said.

I have had and still have Christian friends who joke about my atheism. I dont demand every time they make a joke about it, that they be fired. If they truely hated me, that would be different.

I do worry about this growing culture of creating taboos because people cant take a joke. It seems that only media like Comedy Central still has the balls to make fun of life without fear. 

Manciea makes fun of Hispanics. John Stewart makes fun of Jews.  "This Week In God" has made fun of every religion. They even have fake Arab reporter. No one would accuse those writers or John Stewart of being racist.  

Imus was not being racist. He merely told a joke that offended someone else. SO THE FUCK WHAT! Life goes on. 

If anyone here honestly thinks taboos are the way to solve social problems just think about how much we criticise and make fun of Christianity here. Do  you hate all Christians because you joke about what they believe?

I say stop worring about being offended. There is always someone or something that will eventually "offend". The way to handle it is to adress weither someone really hates you, or see if it merely is your own insecurities that cause you to react.

There is a huge differance between a Christian who really hates me, and a friend or co-worker who says, "Brian you are going to burn in hell". CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!

I fear for any country who makes walking on eggshells manditory. 

 

 

 

 

Brian you do make a good point and I agree with part of what you say in that today's society looks to be offended; many are far too sensitive.  But let me repeat the question then for you...how do you define racism today?

Racism is blind hatred out of ignorance. Fred Phelps is a racist and a bigot. Imus merely said something that offended some.

I see racism(bigotry) as hate fueled by needless fear. Some Christians are "racist" toward atheist. By "racist" I dont mean skin color but it still fits the same catigory of "hate" for the sake of "hate".

There are atheists as well who "hate" for the sake of hate and aim that hate blindly at ALL theists. NOT ALL ATHEISTS, mind you. Just a handfull.

And Muslims do it to Jews and Christians as well.

So "racism" to me merely means hate out of fear of the unknown. An irrational fear of the unknown.

I noticed that you are a theist. Now. I hope I can be blunt with you, for example and give you an example of context to demonstrate  "I wish you would die" hate. And the non hatefull context of "I'm going to give you a wedgie".

 

EXAMPLE ONLY!

"I hate all Christians"(and really mean it)

Is different than saying.

"Why cant Jesus hold M&Ms? Because they fall through the holes in his hands".

Is the same to me as the differance between.

"I hate all atheists"(and really mean it)

VS

"What do atheists talk about at meetings? Nothing?"

Or, "What is our favorite holiday? April Fool's day".

 

It depends who is saying it and the context of why they are saying it as well. 

There was an extreemly funny comedy movie back in the 70s called "Kentucky Fried Movie". One of the spoofs in it was making fun of Evil Kanevil(sp) the motor cycle dardevil.

In the spoof, insted of jumping something. The daredevil went into an ally were some blacks were playing craps. He disrupted the circle by stepping into the middle of the game and shouted the "N" word. He was in full motorcycle protection gear and helmet as the blacks chased him down the ally.

It also made fun of Bruce Lee movies with a spoof called, "A fist full of Yen".

One of the sceens had a government agent begging the asian spoof character to become a spy again.

Goverment agent, "Please, we really need you."

Bruce Lee spoof, " No, I dont do that anymore"

Goverment agent, "You'll have the oportunity to kill 50 or 60 men"

Bruce Lee spoof, "Ok".

My point is that a racist(bigot) has malicious intent in their words based on irrational fear. But the jokes above and the like in society dont automatically mean the people making them are racist. Most of the time when we poke fun like this as a pluralistic society we are marginalizing hatefull people by poking fun at their bigotry.

I hope that explains thing more. I just wish people could RELAX and know the difference between someone "offending " and actually "hating".

 

 

 

 

Racism is about one RACE considering themselves superior to another RACE.  It has nothing to do with lifestyle, opionions (bigotry), or gender trash talk.  We are talking about race here, not belief as well.

If what Chappelle says when he calls a white person "cracka" or a white person calls a black person "nappy headed", those aren't considered racist, well say that.  I don't care if it's a joke or not, why must we as a society say it's ok to say it here but not there?

And you make your point eloquently regarding the sensitivity of people and what they are offended by.  But that's not what I'm asking...I'm asking about racism and racism ONLY.  I'm Latino and even if someone said they were joking, calling me a "wetback" is not something I appreciate.  That's a racist remark.  As is "craka" when regarding someone Caucasian, and so is "nappy headed" when regarding someone afro-american.  That make sense?  Now why should we allow it, even in a joking tone?  Is it right to insult a race even as a joke?

No you got it wrong.  Carlos Mencia just as Chris Rock and Larry the Cable Guy crack jokes because that's their profession.  But even they take it too far.  We condone racism but let it exist and call it "jokes"?  Is that right?

Brian I understand the difference but I'm asking, is...it...right?  Should you joke about that and give an idiot like Imus the out to say it was "joking"....

You don't joke about certain subjects and I'm asking you...do you think this is one of those.

Humour is too subjective to be an adequate argument against or for racial comments. What one finds hysterical another can find absolutely disgusting and unfunny. I personally think Chapelle saying cracker is just as bad as KKK members saying nigger. You can make fun of something without sinking to it's level.

I think you can make fun of racism without using racist slurs. That is stooping to their level. Except in the context of character portrayal, there's no valid use for such terms. Propogating them simply increases their use. It doesn't help anything.

No one is bashing your freedom to say or do what you want.  That's part of the beauty of America.  But just like you can't yell fire in the middle of a crowded room, should you yell racial slurs and say it was a stroke of brilliance no matter the context?  It has nothing to do with comedy, being a smart ass, or anything else under the sun; it's a lack of respect to other races to even use those words or think they are funny because no amount of brilliance justifies insulting a race. 

How very wrong I was; they've canceled the show.

It was not a publicity stunt.

you still don't understand.  criticizing someone else's beliefs vs. their race are not one and the same.  Opinions can vary about a belief but no one can do anything about the race they were born as and ANY reference to a race that is demeaning, joke or not, should not happen.

Okay, the context of the offending statement was a basketball game being played by young women doubtless of good character and not individually in the public eye. It was not in the context of a comedy show where both the person making the statement and the object of the statement were in on the gag. You are right that context is important, but this was the wrong time and place and those young players were the wrong people. The context was completely wrong. 
Don Imus was right when he said he'd been insulting people for over thirty years. I used to listen to him on the radio when I lived in Southern California. But his targets were public figures who expected to be lampooned, not college girls nobody outside their basketball league had heard of before Imus' demeaning remarks. Anyway, when I heard Imus years ago the strongest term he used for anybody he was harpooning was "weasel." The clearly racial comments the other day were out of left field. Too bad for everybody involved they didn't have a three second delay, as they do on some live broadcasts.

Link doesn't work. I got:

Unfortunately we are unable to locate the page you have requested. This could be due to content on our site having expired, a broken link, an outdated bookmark, or a mistyped address. Please use the navigation provided on this page, or click here to visit our home page.

Is there any chance it was an AP piece? Any chance you could Google it and find it somewhere else?

Thanks!

I do think Imus was an idiot for thinking that joke would pass through unchecked, but I think the punishment was too harsh. That being said, I wonder where all the outrage is when something like this happens:

 

http://www.break.com/index/double_standard.html

*sigh*  The article was written by Jason Whitlock who is primarily a sports guy here in Kansas City.