What's the best way to get money out of an Objectivist?

Iruka Naminori
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What's the best way to get money out of an Objectivist?

No, this isn't a joke. I wish it were. It's like asking, "What's the best way to get blood out of a turnip?"

My brother is an Ayn Rand groupie who thinks greed is the be-all and end-all. I recently fixed my nephew's computer. A ton of stuff was broken on it and I ended up using a bunch of parts I had intended to put into a system build: a 350 watt ATX power supply; a Gainward GeForce3 AGP video card; a Lite-On DVD-ROM. I also gave them a 22" CRT monitor and two hard drives. The floppy drive was broken, too, but by the time I realized that, I was in no mood to replace anything else.

I did this for my nephew who has been without a computer for many months. All I asked was $100 for the parts, which is really not even enough to replace them, most likely. I gave my brother a March 1st deadline and he (predictably) hasn't paid. I just talked to his wife.

I'm going to talk to him twice about paying me, then I'm just going to go to his house and remove all the hard drives. I put them in mobile racks, which I also supplied free of charge. All I have to do is use a standard key and remove them. This will make the system non-functional unless he wants to go to the trouble of installing and configuring a hard drive (unlikely).

Question: How do you ask an Objectivist for money he owes you?

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jmm
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Hit him over the head with

Hit him over the head with his unabridged copy of Atlas Shrugged.  That should render him unconscious, then take his wallet. 


Iruka Naminori
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jmm wrote: Hit him over the

jmm wrote:
Hit him over the head with his unabridged copy of Atlas Shrugged. That should render him unconscious, then take his wallet.

Hmmm, maybe I'll drop by the library and find an Ayn Rand compendium, hard cover. Laughing out loud

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triften
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Well, you write a 1000+

Well, you write a 1000+ page novel and slip a 40 page exposition about 3/4 of the way through it as a monologue. Make sure the book has a great start that calls to lots of things that the Objectivist relates to at the start then degrades into b-grade sci-fi toward the end. Additionally, the novel should espouse the values of property ownership and hard work despite having slept your way into your first job. Make sure to charge $40+ a copy and you should be rolling in money fairly shortly.

But seriously, was an agreement made on the money for parts exchange? He should value that contract as well. Otherwise, he's being a jerk first and an Objectivist second (yes, I know, it's a very fine line). I wouldn't bother with some surreptitious hard drive yoinking... if he doesn't pay past your reasonable deadline, just go in with a #2 phillips-head and take back every part that belongs to you.

If he comes back looking for the parts, sell him the parts for $100. And if he asks, offer to install them for a reasonable fee. After all, your time is valuable.

-Triften 


Iruka Naminori
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Yes, we had a verbal

Yes, we had a verbal agreement.  Originally, I asked him to pay for the parts and gave him a bill for $100, which is more than reasonable.

In the middle of February, I gave him an alternative. I told him I thought my nephew should have a better power supply and video card for his system.  I told my brother that if he bought a better PSU and graphics card by March 1, I would install them for free, take back my old power supply and graphics card and just let them keep the DVD-ROM.  Everything would be square.

March 1 has come and gone.

I knew he wouldn't do shit about anything.  He's such an ass.

The problem with taking back the parts is I really want my nephew to have a computer.  Holding the hard drives for ransom would be the best way to 1) get results and 2) make it easy on me.  I have health issues that cause back and muscle pain.  Yes, I work on computers, but if I don't have to subject my body to pain, I probably shouldn't.

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Tell him that he's a leech.

Tell him that he's a leech.


Bjxrn
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Calling him a leech might

Calling him a leech might work, but I think his brother likes to pretend he is an Objectivist. I don't think he really understands the philosophy. Objectivists might be big on selfishness but its actually a little more nuanced than that. They are (supposed to be) REALLY big on not stealing and breaking contracts, fraud is an infringement on another persons rights, and Objectivists are all about right.

 

 

 


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Hello. My name is Matt and

Hello. My name is Matt and I am new to this site. I am also an Objectivist. I thought it would be appropriate, therefore, to lend my thoughts to this post.

I must ask, though: You start by stating that your brother is an Objectivist, but then you say that you repaired your nephew's computer. Your nephew is the one who owes you the money, it would seem; and you ask how to get money from an Objectivist. I won't pretend to know which it is; but for the purposes of this comment, I will refer to this individual as your "brother" for clarity.

You write: "My brother is an Ayn Rand groupie who thinks greed is the be-all and end-all."

Although I am aware of how "greed" is viewed by the majority of people, I would say that I would like to know what your definition of 'greed' is—or, more importantly, how your self-professed Objectivist brother defines it.

Futhermore, and for clarification, an Objectivist does not hold the pursuit and desire of wealth as a primary. We hold the axiom of existence as a primary. Without recourse to a philosophical exposition on Objectivism, it is 'existence' that is "be-all; end-all."

You write: "It's like asking, 'What's the best way to get blood out of a turnip?'"

This characterization is without merit—if it were made to an actual Objectivist. I don't know your brother, but from your description, he is exhibiting ignorance on how we define our economics: the trader principle.

In trade, we trade values. This is, however, contextually dependent on whose value it is. For instance, I wouldn't pay someone more than a few dollars for old postage stamps: I don't value them. Thus, when trading, it is important to trade with someone who espouses a mutual value-judgment to what it is that is being traded.

<> In the case of you and your brother, I assume he values his computer, just as you value the parts with which you repaired it and your mental and physical effort of the reparation. Of course, this is not quite relevant to your question—but it is relevant to being an Objectivist. Thus, in a trade i.e. an exchange of values for mutual benefit, you appraise your materials and your effort as being worth $100. If your brother were an actual, explicit capitalist, he would understand this and gladly pay you. Nay, if he thought you were under-selling your product, he would perhaps offer more.

<>If he benefited to your detriment; that is, if we acquired a product from you without reciprocating the value, he is a thief. A thief has many manifestations, but in all instances, they pursue the unearned. The pursuit of the unearned is the primary vice, according to Objectivism.

You ask: "How do you ask an Objectivist for money he owes you?" If he were an actual Objectivist—I implore him to declare his contentions with my argument that he is not an Objectivist if he takes exception to my judgment—all you should have to do is ask. However, given my preceding explanation on what actual Objectivists believe in regard to economics, I think a more appropriate question would be, "How does one exctricate money from the clutches of a thief?" That is a different matter entirely; and one to which I do not have a ready answer, if there were no binding contract made between the two of you (hence, the accurate statements made by others in this regard).

Well, that's my first RRS website post. Thanks.


Iruka Naminori
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Not Matt wrote:

Not Matt wrote:

Your nephew is the one who owes you the money, it would seem; and you ask how to get money from an Objectivist. I won't pretend to know which it is; but for the purposes of this comment, I will refer to this individual as your "brother" for clarity.

Um, no. My nephew is underage and I made a verbal agreement with my brother not my nephew. My brother has a good job and plenty of money. He needs to pay what he owes.

Not Matt wrote:
You write: "My brother is an Ayn Rand groupie who thinks greed is the be-all and end-all."

Although I am aware of how "greed" is viewed by the majority of people, I would say that I would like to know what your definition of 'greed' is—or, more importantly, how your self-professed Objectivist brother defines it.

I've had experience with self-confessed "Objectivists" and every last one of them was a Bush-supporting dick, including my brother. I absolutely hate the philosophy of self-interest above all that Objectivists seem to cling to. Life is too short to waste time on obnoxious, fascist (as in Mussolini's definition) assholes.

If these attributes do not apply to you, great. I'm sure we'll get along fine. Regardless, I'm not terribly interested in Objectivism. Quite probably I have a serious prejudice due to my dealings with Ayn Rand groupies. Sorry, but I'm not all that interested in working on it...in much the same way I'm not interested in working on my prejudice against religion. Let me direct you to the political forum. I'm sure someone there would love to either agree with you or debate you.

/me offers a smile --->

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Not Matt
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You write: "Um, no. My

You write: "Um, no. My nephew is underage and I made a verbal agreement with my brother not my nephew." 

Okay, for what did you make a verbal agreement with your brother?  You said, "I recently fixed my nephew's computer."  Is he also an Objectivist?  You did not state so in your original post.  If you implied it by your last question asking how to get money from an Objectivist, I am sorry that I missed it.  Otherwise, I am still confused.

<>

 You write: "I've had experience with self-confessed 'Objectivists' and every last one of them was a Bush-supporting dick".

For the record, I hate Bush, and for dozens of reasons.  Also, for the record, you are probably right.  Every other self-professed Objectivist whom I have met, or even mere Ayn Rand enthusiasts, have been Bush-supporting dicks.  The reason, of course, is that the economic theory of Objectivism is capitalism—the system of economics that Republicans purport themselves to uphold.  A proposition which is utterly farcical, given their voting record and personal philosophy.

I like to brush elbows with the liberal crowd, myself, I just don't bring up economics and such too often.<> Speaking of which, the most capitalist politicians that we have had in the White House in recent years have been Bill Clinton and Al Gore—no joke.  It is no coincidence that the most prosperous years in recent history were under Clinton's reign; while authoritarian Republicans such as G.W. squander our resources on foolish quests to spread democracy—a flawed system of government, anyhow—to a region steeped in mysticism.

You write: "Quite probably I have a serious prejudice due to my dealings with Ayn Rand groupies. Sorry, but I'm not all that interested in working on it..."

That is your choice, of course; I only ask that, if we have discussions in the future, you treat me with civility, something with which I will most certainly treat you.  In fact, let me stand beside you against those poser Objectivists.

Lastly, you write: "Life is too short to waste time on obnoxious, fascist (as in Mussolini's definition) assholes."

Allow me to state that, while your brother and aforementioned "Rand groupies" might be fascist, Objectivism does not endorse any such political doctrine. Miss Rand's conception of a governmental body comprised civil courts (those rogue, liberal courts that conservatives hate since civil courts uphold individual rights), military, and police forces, essentially.  She did not endorse a legislative body, or a singular man or woman who ruled the nation—a necessary component of fascism. 

The other component, chauvinism, was also opposed in her thoughts.  She did have American pride, to be sure; but that is quite different than chauvinism or extreme nationalism, which qualify fascism.  She held America in very high esteem since we were the only nation explicitly conceived with individual rights  and the only (now moderately) capitalist nation in the world.   

As for the "philosophy of self-interest", although Objectivist ethics indeed embraces egoism, the ethical concepts don't represent the philosophy as a whole—there are four other branches, after all.  Objectivism is properly indentified as the Philosophy of Reason, though, I suppose you may call it what you wish. 


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X + Y = Z X = Bat Y = His

X + Y = Z

X = Bat

Y = His Head

Z = Money! 

 

It's flawless.

If Z < 100 then

     X(Condition.Hit(Y))

else

    X(Condition.Hit())

end

 

 

"When I die I shall be content to vanish into nothingness.... No show, however good, could conceivably be good forever.... I do not believe in immortality, and have no desire for it." ~H.L. Mencken

Thank god i'm a atheist!


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Sadly, if your brother is

Sadly, if your brother is the jerk he seems to be from your post, you may have to redefine it as a gift and call it a lesson learned. 

If/When the day comes that they ask you for something else, perhaps they'll have to take your nephew's computer to a retailer.  

 

 

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If someone owes me money and

If someone owes me money and doesn't pay, I take a baseball bat to their knees. If that doesn't work I strap them face down naked to a bench, stick a funnel in their ass and pour boiling water into it.

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Are you turning fundy on us

Are you turning fundy on us Matt? I mean boiling water in the anus...only difference is they might actually do it.


Iruka Naminori
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Hey, Not Matt. :) I'm glad

Hey, Not Matt. Smiling

I'm glad you hate Bush.  It shows you have character. Eye-wink

I'm not trying to be a bitch...it's just that the Objectivists I've crossed paths with haven't been terribly pleasant characters.  I will do my best to treat you as an individual.

I didn't read all of your post, but I hope I'll find the time to do so in the near future.  I have a lot on my mind this week: auditions.

Also, it looks like my brother might pay me after all.  I can never be sure what he's going to do because his words and actions don't always mesh.  I'll just have to play this by ear.  He isn't always an ass. Eye-wink 

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thingy
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Just turn his Objectivism

Just turn his Objectivism back on himself ... take the parts back.  They're yours, they serve you no interest in losing them as you have better ways to utilise them and their costs.  Don't kidnap HDD's etc just take all the parts back leaving him with the problem he started with. 

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naomi94
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objectivism

 did y'all know ayn rand was an atheist?


MrRage
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naomi94 wrote:  did y'all

naomi94 wrote:
 did y'all know ayn rand was an atheist?

Yes. Doesn't make Atlas Shrugged's ending suck less.


mouse
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Iruka Naminori

Iruka Naminori wrote:

Question: How do you ask an Objectivist for money he owes you?

so is your brother not paying you on philosophical grounds?  

Ethics and aesthetics are one
-Wittgenstein


Conn_in_Brooklyn
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My question is, was Dagny

My question is, was Dagny Taggart supposed to be hot?  'Cause when I read Atlas Shrugged, I envisioned Carmen Sandiego, whom I consider hot for a pictorialized fictional character, which lead me to wonder about Dagny's hotness in the first place ...

Also, you don't need to be an Objectivist to know that agreeing to pay someone for labor and parts and then not paying them is straight up wrong.  Option one: treat him the same way you would treat anyone else ... Option two: Judge Judy; that chick doesn't take any sass mouth ...

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Conn_in_Brooklyn wrote: My

Conn_in_Brooklyn wrote:
My question is, was Dagny Taggart supposed to be hot?

She's as hot as you want her to be. It's a book.

She's going to be hot in the movie version. That is if you think Angelina Jolie is hot.