A long way to go, but it's a start.

Eric Ferguson
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A long way to go, but it's a start.

In the African country of Togo, Phillipe Evegnon, the president of Togo's High Audio Visual and Communication Authority has ordered all advertising for "traditional" medicine, herbal remedies, pastors claiming healing powers are banned from TV and radio. Togo has 60 private radio stations and they are upset because this type of advertising makes up 60% of the their revenue. Even though freedom of expression is guaranteed by their constitution, the Authority was legally empowered to protect the population against the diffusion of false information likely to endanger lives.

China recently imposed rules barring misleading advertising on TV and radio and in print. Unproven medical items or procedures such as those for male potency, breast enlargement, and cure-alls.

While I'm opposed to any such government regulation, freedom of speech and so on, the tide is turning for the would-be charlatans. "Faith" healers, psychics, and so on are losing credibility. People like Kevin Trudeau selling his natural cures garbage, getting sued as he was by the FTC.

It's good news because it shows that more people around the world are thinking rationally. It's starting in the most industrialized places, North America and Europe. So these con artists are concentrating on the more gullible societies. Benn Hinn invaded Japan recently to spread the Jesus virus. Miracle cures and homeopathic nonsense is the rage in developing countries where people have recently increased their standards of living and have some spending money.

If people are demanding facts and science more often when it comes to health and technology perhaps the demand will move into understanding life in general.

Consider this account closed. It's disgraceful this site has no function to delete an account. I cannot be part of an organization that seeks only to replace the religion of the god of the bible with the religion of "poor me" bleeding heart liberalism. Rational my ass! Not believing in a god is one thing. A rational view of the rest of the world is something else, which isn't found here.


Zhwazi
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This would be bad if it

This would be bad if it happened in the US. All the people that are into that stuff are mingling with the conspiracy kooks already and a ban on advertising that kind of thing would turn a lot of conversation at the healthfood store toward the New World Order, CFR, and Illuminati.


Eric Ferguson
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I've considered that as a

I've considered that as a result. In which case it's bad anywhere. However I suspect you'll find most people won't react that way. Most don't think that way now, in fact, many don't think at all, which is exactly the problem.

People that are into psychics or homeopathy for example aren't necessarily kooks, they're looking for insight or a miracle, some advantage in their life, but there's just life.

I'm generally against any such government mandate. But I can appreciate the idea when you have a Kevin Trudeau on the TV telling you about some herbal cure for a fatal disease, and a person gives up on medical treatment in favor of this mumbo jumbo, it's a danger. I'm not saying I encourage or approve the ban.

The point is that if people and governments are coming to their senses, at least somewhat, over all the woo out there, maybe religion can be added to the list.

Q: What do you call alternative medicine that actually works ?

A: medicine.

Consider this account closed. It's disgraceful this site has no function to delete an account. I cannot be part of an organization that seeks only to replace the religion of the god of the bible with the religion of "poor me" bleeding heart liberalism. Rational my ass! Not believing in a god is one thing. A rational view of the rest of the world is something else, which isn't found here.


Hambydammit
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Then again, maybe it's

Then again, maybe it's social darwinism... survival of the rational?

The more people who die from alternative medicine, the higher the percentage of rational thinkers left, correct?

(That's just a joke, kids.)

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Eric Ferguson
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I recognized the joke. It's

I recognized the joke. It's good.


Shaitian
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i dont know some of the

i dont know some of the herbal cures work good... It all depends if its something serious you go to a doctor if its not try some stuff where you spend 5-10 dollars rather than $100+.
I live near a place called Lily Dale which there are psychics, and everything else... some of them are pretty rational compared to christians, plus they understand persuction and like people who are trying to stray away from the modern society and christianity.
But yes i dont think you should stop your medical treatment if it is something serious. We should also monitor them to see if some things they do are better than our modern medicine.


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Eric Ferguson wrote: Q: What

Eric Ferguson wrote:

Q: What do you call alternative medicine that actually works ?

A: medicine.

Some alternative medicines that are still in practice have been around for a great deal of time. There's a reason the Chinese still use a lot of herbal remedies and haven't switched to Western medicine.

Doctors seem to enjoy writing a prescription when there is a simpler remedy.

For instance, antibiotics kill bacteria. You might have bad bacteria that makes you ill, but you need good bacteria living in your intentinal tract that assists with the digestion of food. When taking antibiotics, both types of bacteria are killed and you can end up with diarrhea because the good bacteria in your intestines is gone.

I astounded a doctor when he kindly told me that if the antibiotics he had just prescribed caused gastrointestinal distress, just give him a call and he would write me a subsequent prescription.

I smiled and told him that wouldn't be necessary. I would simply take some acidophilus capsules (the same acidophilus that's in yogurt) to replace the good bacteria because it works every time for me and my cats.

If you're on antibiotics, taking three of four acidophilus capsules with a meal can save numerous, urgent trips to the restroom.

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Wow, good for the Togoans.

Wow, good for the Togoans. That minister must have seen the carnage that "traditional rememdies" for AIDS (like raping babies) have caused in the rest of Africa and decided that freedom of speech takes a distant second the security of his people. Good for him. As usual, too many people are reflexively respectful of anything with the word "traditional" attached - religion or medicine.

Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
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Zhwazi wrote:This would be

Zhwazi wrote:
This would be bad if it happened in the US. All the people that are into that stuff are mingling with the conspiracy kooks already and a ban on advertising that kind of thing would turn a lot of conversation at the healthfood store toward the New World Order, CFR, and Illuminati.

I'm all for New World Order, ban of religion, ban on new agers, Socialism, and then we have peace.


Tilberian
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politicalhumanist wrote: I'm

politicalhumanist wrote:

I'm all for New World Order, ban of religion, ban on new agers, Socialism, and then we have peace.

That's a little fascist. Well, actually more than a little.

Remember, if we're going to start advocating banning opinions we don't like, there are billions of christians who would just love to ban our opinions first.

Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown


Eric Ferguson
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Tilberian wrote: Wow, good

Tilberian wrote:
Wow, good for the Togoans. That minister must have seen the carnage that "traditional rememdies" for AIDS (like raping babies) have caused in the rest of Africa and decided that freedom of speech takes a distant second the security of his people. Good for him. As usual, too many people are reflexively respectful of anything with the word "traditional" attached - religion or medicine.

How true. I'm all for free speech, but at the same time charlatains are allowed to speak too. If you cannot recognize their speech as false shame on you. But it is difficult in today's world.

Yeah, having sex with a virgin will cure your STD, go figure. 

Consider this account closed. It's disgraceful this site has no function to delete an account. I cannot be part of an organization that seeks only to replace the religion of the god of the bible with the religion of "poor me" bleeding heart liberalism. Rational my ass! Not believing in a god is one thing. A rational view of the rest of the world is something else, which isn't found here.


Eric Ferguson
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Susan wrote: Eric Ferguson

Susan wrote:
Eric Ferguson wrote:
Q: What do you call alternative medicine that actually works ? A: medicine.
Some alternative medicines that are still in practice have been around for a great deal of time. There's a reason the Chinese still use a lot of herbal remedies and haven't switched to Western medicine.

Actually there are two reasons. One is, the remedies that do work are medicine, and there'll be scientific data today that supports it. The other reason is because they believe it works, just like faith. The chinese government has a new law banning advertising of unproven medicine, psychics, and miracle products.

Much of modern medicine was once "alternative" medicine. Can you imagine the reaction to penicillin? You're going to use mold for what?!?

Quote:
Doctors seem to enjoy writing a prescription when there is a simpler remedy.

I agree. But that alone doesn't mean the medicine doesn't work. Sure the cure might be worse than the disease.

Quote:
If you're on antibiotics, taking three of four acidophilus capsules with a meal can save numerous, urgent trips to the restroom.

Acidophilus is widely known to be medicinal.

There are a few things I should bring up. We have government, and they believe it's their duty to help us. They create laws to "protect" us. So when members of the AMA (stock holders in big pharma) decide what is accepted medical practice our doctors must follow the rules. A friend of my daughter is ill, she has some sort of mental condition that causes seizures. She was on tons of medication equal to large daily doeses similar to barbituates. She was getting worse. Her parents spent some time learning about it and decided to detoxify her. In the United States she could not be admitted to a clinic for this. The standard medical practice doesn't allow it. They spent a few weeks in Mexico where it is legal to take your kid off drugs. They've changed their diet, filtered the water, she is steadily getting better and is off one med and reducing others. (Flouride in your water is highly poisonous by the way.)

Don't confuse my point with standard medical practice. There are 9 States that have legalized the medical use of marijuana. It is the single best drug on Earth for settling the stomach and is literally saving cancer patients lives. But the Fed still sees it as the scourge of the Earth, even though in the 1970s the Fed ran a medical marijuana program, closed down under Bush the first.

My point remains, alternative medicine that actually works is medicine. Just because doctors don't notice is another story. We have pharmacists in this country that will recommend homeopathic products. They're on the shelf just down the isle from the real medicine. Some States have departments dedicated to the approval and sale of these "remedies."

One of my favorites are the new allergy medications. Side effects include watery eyes, itchy throat, sinus congestion, headache.... hey wait, that sounds like an allergy, maybe the stuff just doesn't work.

Then there's "All natural"....well so is hemlock.

Homeopathy is a scam. You might as well send your money to Peter Popoff and get his vial of miracle water.

(Anyone not familiar with what homeopathy is I'd be happy to expand)

Consider this account closed. It's disgraceful this site has no function to delete an account. I cannot be part of an organization that seeks only to replace the religion of the god of the bible with the religion of "poor me" bleeding heart liberalism. Rational my ass! Not believing in a god is one thing. A rational view of the rest of the world is something else, which isn't found here.


Hambydammit
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Yeah... the issue with

Yeah... the issue with herbal vs. medicinal is a political/economic issue, not a difference in the kind of cure.

There are definitely natural cures in the world.  Unfortunately, we have this thing called the FDA, and this economic sector known as the Pharmaceutical (sp?) sector.  While it's nice to believe that the AMA, the FDA, and the big Pharm companies are all looking out for your health and well being, they're not.  They're interested in making money, and the best way to make money is to sell you shit.  If you can grow something in your garden that will keep you healthy, why would the media, the companies, or the FDA have any interest in telling you about it?

Answer:  They wouldn't.

So, yes, there are plenty of medicines that come in natural forms, and I try to use as many of them as I know about.  As a consequence, I hardly ever go to the doctor, and have only taken prescription meds once or twice in the last twenty years.

The thing is, I try to find data to back up claims before I go out and try something.  There are sources of scientific data besides the U.S. government.  Calling herbs "alternative medicine" is kind of missing the point.  

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Eric Ferguson
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Hambydammit wrote: Calling

Hambydammit wrote:

Calling herbs "alternative medicine" is kind of missing the point.

 

I'm not making that connection. And if an herbal remedy actually does work it IS medicine.

 It's in our nature to desire a quick fix. Your headache is not caused by a lack of asprin. Understand I am not in favor of using medication to treat everything "wrong" in our lives. The issue is believing in a miracle cure as we believe in a miracle worker, neither exist. Don't underestimate the power of suggestion. The placebo effect is very real. Homeopathic remedies are nothing. Absolutely nothing. But some people sware by them. And that alone is ok. But when one listens to bad advice and chooses not to undergo cancer therapy for example in favor of homeopathy or faith in God, it's dangerous. Some of these "remedies" are so dilute that there may not be even one molecule of the "active" ingredient in a regular dose.

Consider this account closed. It's disgraceful this site has no function to delete an account. I cannot be part of an organization that seeks only to replace the religion of the god of the bible with the religion of "poor me" bleeding heart liberalism. Rational my ass! Not believing in a god is one thing. A rational view of the rest of the world is something else, which isn't found here.