I had totally forgotten about this...

Hambydammit
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I had totally forgotten about this...

Wow... I was scrolling through this amusing webpage...

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

and when I read this one...

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF EVIDENCE (II) (MODIFIED SIMPSON’S ARGUMENT)
(1) God, if you exist, please give me absolutely no sign.
(2)
(3) Therefore, God exists.

I remembered something that happened when I was just a kid. I couldn't have been more than ten or eleven, but I was already having some severe issues with the concept of god. I had been to church earlier that day, and the preacher kept harping on about how god will reveal himself to you if you ask him and truly believe that he will answer.

I think what I came up with might have been my first rational thought about god's existence. I really, really wanted to know whether god existed or not, and I reasoned that if god existed, and I prayed sincerely to him to show himself to me, and he did, then I'd know for sure. So, it followed that if I was asking god to reveal himself to me, it was because I wasn't sure. Nobody would ask me to prove that I existed if they were standing there looking at me, right? So the only reason you ask someone to prove they exist is if you don't know for sure that they exist.

(It didn't occur to me at this time that this is just a handy loophole so that god never has to reveal himself!)

Anyway, I mentioned this in a little prayer, and pointed out that I was sure the preacher just got it a little wrong, because it wouldn't make sense for me to have to believe in him before I prayed to him to give me a reason to believe in him.

I asked him for just a little thing... nothing too crazy, and nothing that would blow his cover if somebody else saw it. (This didn't occur to me as a bizarre thing. I didn't understand god very well, so I thought maybe he didn't want to do anything blatant.) I asked that if he didn't mind, would he just put a leaf inside my desk drawer before morning. Nobody would think it was strange for a ten year old to have a leaf in his desk, and since I'd never spoken it aloud, it would be proof enough for me.

Obviously, there was no leaf in my desk, and that's really the whole story, but I had completely forgotten about that, and thought it might be interesting for some of you to hear about a "first rational thought."

Anyway, that's all.

{edit: Please, apologists. Don't interrupt my reverie to quote some bible verse at me about how I didn't have enough faith, or that you can't demand a test from god or any of that. I'm having a moment, and I just wanted to share a little of my life with people who probably understand. I'm feeling a little drained today, and don't feel like debating.}

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Insidium Profundis
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But you have to understand:

But you have to understand: God only comes to those he chooses, and you choose whether he chooses you based on your own free will so, really, it's your fault, not god's, for he is blameless, but works in mysterious ways, and even if we could find something to blame him for, we really can't use our own moral standards to judge a being as great and blameless as god because it says so in a book written by sun-baked Jews 2000 years ago.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.


Hambydammit
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Yeah. You know, the funny

Yeah. You know, the funny thing is, I knew the trap at ten years old. I saw it, but my ten year old brain was not ready to embrace it yet.

Not surprisingly, I became more militantly Christian to make up for my lack of faith. I figured if I just immersed myself in it, I would come to a better understanding through some sort of osmosis.

It took me many years, after rejecting Christianity, to be able to look at it objectively. Even after I realized that I was truly an atheist, I still was not able to look at Christianity as "just another religion" for a long time.

The funny thing is, even though I get aggravated with the people who insist on dodging every direct question I ask them, I feel sympathy for them, because I remember the way that I would, in an intellectual panic, fall back to what someone else had told me was the correct answer.

Like so many other atheists I know, the thing that I thought would be my ultimate salvation ended up being exactly that, but in the opposite way! I rationalized that if Christianity was true, and I couldn't understand it, it probably had to do with the fact that I'd never read the entire bible -- so I did, hoping for understanding.

Well, I understood. Going to college didn't hurt, either, because most of my electives were in philosophy, ethics, logic, etc... and I was lucky to have professors who did their best to present the material without bias.

(I'm not saying their are no college educated Christians, apologists! Back off!)

I wrote an essay that you can find if you look up my blog. It deals with what I faced, and what I believe many other people face when thinking about leaving Christianity.. and that is fear of not belonging.. fear of being ostracized.

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Tomcat
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I remember asking God for a

I remember asking God for a Technodrome and not getting one. If you ever watched the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the Technodrome was that huge sphere on tank treads that traveled beneath the earth. And I didn't get one for Christmas. I remember being really upset. Not as humble as asking for a leaf tho

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


Hambydammit
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Yeah.. I'm cool. I'm

Yeah.. I'm cool.

I'm responding to my own post. If you can't generate an audience, be the audience... that's what I always say...

anyway, here's another argument I found particularly amusing, since I've heard so many versions of it...

ARGUMENT FROM RAIN, a.k.a. PERCHANCE'S SISTER'S ARGUMENT (III)
(1) I wanted it to be a sunny day.
(2) I prayed it wouldn't rain.
(3) We had two thunderstorms.
(4) Obviously, God didn't want to answer my prayer.
(5) Of course not! What a selfish thing to pray for! How dare I try to compel God to my selfish desires!
(6) The rain was God's punishment for my selfish desires.
(7) Therefore, God exists.

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
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