The Battle of the New Atheists

LeftofLarry
RRS local affiliateScientist
LeftofLarry's picture
Posts: 1199
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
The Battle of the New Atheists

My friends, I must ask you an important question today: Where do you stand on God?

It's a question you may prefer not to be asked. But I'm afraid I have no choice. We find ourselves, this very autumn, three-and-a-half centuries after the intellectual martyrdom of Galileo, caught up in a struggle of ultimate importance, when each one of us must make a commitment. It is time to declare our position.

Read more in Wire Magazine here:

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/1,71985-0.html

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7523
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
It's great that people are

It's great that people are slowly catching on, that the next evolution in human thought is starting to take hold. The author however makes several crucial mistakes and demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding in the position of the "new atheists" but still nice to see the article.

For example the last sentence...

[on the position of respecting religious beliefs]
"It simply reflects our deepest, democratic values. Or, you might say, our bedrock faith: the faith that no matter how confident we are in our beliefs, there's always a chance we could turn out to be wrong."

Well, he seemed to misunderstand that both Dawkins, Harris, and for that matter likely ALL the "new atheists" would gladly admit they are wrong if evidence presents itself. Ironically, he seems to fundamentally respect the beliefs of people who aren't willing to accept that they may be wrong, a stance that a great many theists will take.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


LeftofLarry
RRS local affiliateScientist
LeftofLarry's picture
Posts: 1199
Joined: 2006-02-12
User is offlineOffline
right...but at least....the

right...but at least....the message is getting out there. I just hope the momentum keeps on truckin'.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server which houses Celebrity Atheists.


Voided
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2006-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Quote:Where do you stand on

Quote:
Where do you stand on God?

I do not have a belief of any god as I do not see any proof. Any proof or reasoning I have being given for the evidence has being broken down and proven false or flawed. There are even some gods or theories about god that I find to be impossible. This does not mean I am not open to the idea of a god, but even the best proof I have heard for the existence of a god is still bullshit.

In short I am an Agnostic Atheist who is Anti-Theist about some gods.


darth_josh
High Level DonorHigh Level ModeratorGold Member
darth_josh's picture
Posts: 2650
Joined: 2006-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Gary Wolf wrote:Even those

Gary Wolf wrote:
Even those of us who sympathize intellectually have good reasons to wish that the New Atheists continue to seem absurd.

In my opinion, the only absurdity is apathy.

It seems that Mr. Wolf has decided not to decide concerning the issue of 'fence-sitting'.
He recounts tales of his visits to these places, that most of us wish we had the time to see, as if he were somehow coerced into going to them.
Finally ending on the premise that men like Harris, Dawkins, and Dennett are radicals that should just be overlooked by society as a whole because of their apparent ineffectiveness in his opinion.

Fuck that. Fuck him. He's the guy at the party while the rest of us have parties and invite him out of pity.

Sympathize intellectually, my ass.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.


Insidium Profundis
Posts: 295
Joined: 2006-10-04
User is offlineOffline
Coward.

Coward.


darth_josh
High Level DonorHigh Level ModeratorGold Member
darth_josh's picture
Posts: 2650
Joined: 2006-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Insidium Profundis

Insidium Profundis wrote:
Coward.

At the very least, try to make this a complete sentence so that I know to whom you are referring, Insidium.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.


Insidium Profundis
Posts: 295
Joined: 2006-10-04
User is offlineOffline
I was referring to Gary

I was referring to Gary Wolf. My atheism is rather powerful.


darth_josh
High Level DonorHigh Level ModeratorGold Member
darth_josh's picture
Posts: 2650
Joined: 2006-02-27
User is offlineOffline
Thank you, Insidium. The

Thank you, Insidium.

The clarification and some inadvertent inspiration were awesome.

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists.


Christen
Christen's picture
Posts: 75
Joined: 2006-02-15
User is offlineOffline
Insidium Profundis wrote:I

Insidium Profundis wrote:
I was referring to Gary Wolf. My atheism is rather powerful.

So, because his atheism isn't as "powerful" as yours, he's a coward? Puzzled


Voided
Posts: 1195
Joined: 2006-02-20
User is offlineOffline
Context: IP calls someone a

Context: IP calls someone a coward > someone asks who he is calling a coward > IP says he is calling Gary Wolf a coward and then IP says explain how strong his(IP's) atheism is.

To me it sounds like IP was calling Gary Wolf a coward for backing down and saying we shouldn’t do anything because it is upsetting people.

It kinda like saying why can't we all get along in the middle of a debate...


Insidium Profundis
Posts: 295
Joined: 2006-10-04
User is offlineOffline
Christen wrote:Insidium

Christen wrote:
Insidium Profundis wrote:
I was referring to Gary Wolf. My atheism is rather powerful.

So, because his atheism isn't as "powerful" as yours, he's a coward? Puzzled

Precisely. Smiling

Recall Plato's allegory of the cave? The truth hurts, and to appease those who are wrong because it is polite (especially in this context) is downright cowardly.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.


MarthaSplatterhead (not verified)
Posts: 4294964979
Joined: 1969-12-31
User is offlineOffline
Gary Wolf wrote: But, so

Gary Wolf wrote:
But, so far, their provocation has failed to take hold. Given all the religious trauma in the world, I take this as good news. Even those of us who sympathize intellectually have good reasons to wish that the New Atheists continue to seem absurd. If we reject their polemics, if we continue to have respectful conversations even about things we find ridiculous, this doesn't necessarily mean we've lost our convictions or our sanity. It simply reflects our deepest, democratic values. Or, you might say, our bedrock faith: the faith that no matter how confident we are in our beliefs, there's always a chance we could turn out to be wrong.

I will continue to fight for the voice of anti-theism to be heard. It is good news that people won't wake up, given the religious trauma in the world? Cursing Man I think it's quite the opposite and that people should definetly wake up BECAUSE of the religious trauma in the world.


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
That's a well written

That's a well written article. The guy makes some valid points about what he calls New Atheism. The sad fact is that religion IS politics, and you don't win in politics by being completely unyielding.

I think the important thing for "evangelical" atheists to keep in mind is that reason is (for better or worse) NOT the ultimate answer to human happiness, because there is no ultimate answer. If we lived in a completely non-religious world, people would still suffer, and politicians would still lie, and governments would still fuck the poor over.

The political reality of this is that taking a hard-line, abolutionist stance will alienate most liberal christians, who just want to live their life. I believe that the goals of Evangelical Atheism should be simple: Politically, atheists should take every opportunity to press the case for separation of church and state. Personally, we should do our best to make sure that we don't give religion a pass from criticism, but at the same time, we should focus on the individual believers... not the church itself.

The church is powerful because of its base. Erode the base, the power wanes. Taking on the institution would be foolhardy at best, and certainly not rational.

I'm sure there's some general somewhere who said something like "Knowing who to attack, and when -- these are much more important than knowing how to attack."

If nobody said that, then give me a gold star for coming up with a quote.

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


politicalhumanist
politicalhumanist's picture
Posts: 133
Joined: 2006-10-09
User is offlineOffline
Wired Magazine November 2006 - atheism cover story

For those who don't subscribe, I thought you might be interested in knowing
that Wired Magazine's cover story for the November issue is about atheism. Laughing out loud

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/atheism.html


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 13689
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
It certainly is a "battle

It certainly is a "battle for the future of civilization". The funny thing is that theists think that too. The problem with these morons is that it is their attitude of "divine intitlement" that is fucking things up for humanity as a whole.

But, pointing out that liberal theists are enabling fundies as part of atheist's "battle" is not a genocidle view that somehow we want to spark up ovens to burn believers alive as some sort of atheist "Salem". That is a false immage believers have of atheists.

Many believers agree with atheists that the fundies are rushing to their mythical utopia to end the world in their fictional sky daddy penis mesuring contest that can and will in reality wipe out the species if humanity remains ignorant to the path it is on.

But, I do get tired of believers getting angry at atheist in the passager seat shouting at the believer that they are going to run the red light and crash.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING! Is not saying, "I hate you and want to kill you".

Atheists along with many theists are warning trying to warn these nuts of all labels not to take humanity with them in their stupid sky daddy war. That is it. And it pisses me off that they are too fucking stupid to see the needless division and hate their own belief causes because their invisable dad in the sky told them they own the planet.

The alpha male mentality must be discarded if humanity expects to survive.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37