NEW USER, I'm MUSLIM !

ALMALHAMAH
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NEW USER, I'm MUSLIM !

Hey everyone how you doin out there, umm that's right im a muslim Raised Brow

Don't worry about it i don't have a bomb or anything like that relax. Laughing out loud

All jokes aside, i like to discuss religion and science, because i believe strongly that my religion is verified by science.

I have material in the Quran that talks about astronomy, geology, and biology.

Anything you want to ask (even if it concerns violence) feel free to initiate a debate.

'todangst' invited me here, so let me know watsup people.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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I haven't read the Quran

I haven't read the Quran yet, but I plan on it, even have a copy. I know I wouldn't put anymore scrutiny on your religion then I would any other. In fact I almost have the feeling I can't because there are so many assholes hypocrites that accuse muslims of being violent when they can't explain it in their own holy book. Although it didn't make a whole lot of sense that people where starting to be violent over cartoons depicting violence, even if that wasn't their main concern.

Also I have made a "stop being jesus' ho"/Pimp Jesus pic so don't think I'm singling you out or anything. This would include anytime I might be an asshole. I'm a critic and don't think it is valid to say I can't criticize, its going to happen. Don't let any of this scare you off though Eye-wink I can still be nice.


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I read the Quaran at work a

I read the Quaran at work a few years ago. It's good to have someone who isn't Christian to try to present/defend their religion here. Welcome to the site.

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Perhaps this could be a good

Perhaps this could be a good starter for debate:

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=2238&highlight=

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ALMALHAMAH
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Thanks

Thanks for welcoming me, critiquing my religion is okay with me. People have to rationally examine something before they can accept it.

To LeftofLary, you know that the Neo-Cons are destroying this country and the world. Look at all these violations of constitutional rights, detainee bill, phone tapping illegally, blocking ceasefires, patriot act, and all kinds of stuff the Bush administration is doing to kill your freedoms and privacy.

Bush launched a war against Iraq, when he admitted himself that they had NO involvement watsoever in 9/11.

And if you ask any loyalist to the republican or conservative or neo-conservative group they will change the subject immediatly and tell you: "well we are there now, no use in dwelling on the past" or "yes but now we are better off without sadam"

Says WHO? Sadam (even though a murderer and a tyrant) was the only one who kept iraqis in check, all of them.

Now this American invasion of Iraq opened up a long history of violence between Sunni and Shia Muslims. Now both are fighting for controll of the country.

The consequences will be a very bad outcome.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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I agree with you 100% on

I agree with you 100% on Bush. He is a piece of shit. The war in Iraq was just as stupid as the Crusades. Hopefully we get the Republicans out in this election and didn't piss off the Moslem world too much doing something so stupid.

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security risk?

Its quite ironic, he wants to go after people hundreds of miles away, and he doesn't want to secure the border in his own backyard.

The stupidity is overwhelming.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Bush is extremely stupid. He

Bush is extremely stupid. He had no reason to invade Iraq. Things would have been better for both the US and Iraq if he hadn't. I would like to personally apologize for the US actions under Bush to the Arab world, not that it will do any good. Still, if anyone from there sees....

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I understand now that the

I understand now that the majority of americans were duped into the war, (i wasn't). Some americans don't know any international level politics or history, they just go with the flow (mainly the government).

I think it was a wake up call to all americans that your government can and will lie to you. Not only here in america, but governments all around the world.

What is going on is more of a 'energy arms race'. With US Russia and China all competing for the gold. The thing is that china makes business deals with oil rich nations, while Bush drops bombs on them.

In a broader global aspect, it looks like we are headed for world war 3. (it may seem stupid, but it may happen) I think this war on terror may be a spark to ignite a firestorm.

Just my opinion. Peace

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Thanks for

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Thanks for welcoming me, critiquing my religion is okay with me. People have to rationally examine something before they can accept it.

If only that was true!

ALMALHAMAH wrote:

.....The consequences will be a very bad outcome.

Too late, they already are.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Thanks for

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Thanks for welcoming me, critiquing my religion is okay with me. People have to rationally examine something before they can accept it.

To LeftofLary, you know that the Neo-Cons are destroying this country and the world. Look at all these violations of constitutional rights, detainee bill, phone tapping illegally, blocking ceasefires, patriot act, and all kinds of stuff the Bush administration is doing to kill your freedoms and privacy.

Bush launched a war against Iraq, when he admitted himself that they had NO involvement watsoever in 9/11.

And if you ask any loyalist to the republican or conservative or neo-conservative group they will change the subject immediatly and tell you: "well we are there now, no use in dwelling on the past" or "yes but now we are better off without sadam"

Says WHO? Sadam (even though a murderer and a tyrant) was the only one who kept iraqis in check, all of them.

Now this American invasion of Iraq opened up a long history of violence between Sunni and Shia Muslims. Now both are fighting for controll of the country.

The consequences will be a very bad outcome.

I completely agree with you.

The link was directed at a thread about a video trying to correlate science with the qu'ran. I started debunking it, which I thought it was a good starting point for a debate here.

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ALMALHAMAH wrote:

ALMALHAMAH wrote:

All jokes aside, i like to discuss religion and science, because i believe strongly that my religion is verified by science.

I have material in the Quran that talks about astronomy, geology, and biology.

There is usually muxture of science and history in most nonsense like religion or pseudoscience. That's how it's easy for most uneducated people to be duped.

If I write a book on faries and discuss the aerodynamic properties of fairy wings that doesn't make faries real?

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Hey

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Hey everyone how you doin out there, umm that's right im a muslim Raised Brow

Don't worry about it i don't have a bomb or anything like that relax. Laughing out loud

All jokes aside, i like to discuss religion and science, because i believe strongly that my religion is verified by science.

I have material in the Quran that talks about astronomy, geology, and biology.

Anything you want to ask (even if it concerns violence) feel free to initiate a debate.

'todangst' invited me here, so let me know watsup people.

There's no god.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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any more 'questions'?

LeftofLarry wrote:
I completely agree with you.

The link was directed at a thread about a video trying to correlate science with the qu'ran. I started debunking it, which I thought it was a good starting point for a debate here.

i saw the thread and it looked like you didn't accept any of the verses you read, you tried to debunk all of them, however the fact still remains that 1427+ years ago the Quran mentions that the Sun and moon both have orbits.

That the sun is not constant, it moves towards the star Vegar in the orbit named the Solar apex.

Furthermore, when you asked the question who is "WE" in the Quran, in semitic languages mainly arabic and hebrew there are two plurals: plural of respect and plural of numbers.

For example: In hebrew,
Eli mean God
Elohim means God (with the -im as a suffix denoting respect and reverence)

same with arabic, if you ask any arab what does those verse in the quran that mention "We" he/she will tell you plural of respect.

the translation into english seems plural, but there is no plural of respect in English, only plural.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


ALMALHAMAH
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prove yourself

AiiA wrote:

There's no god.

if you think there is no God, then just kill yourself.

you have nothing to lose if you are correct.

[the fact is that you do not want to die because you know there is God waiting for you on the other end]

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Randalllord wrote:There is

Randalllord wrote:
There is usually muxture of science and history in most nonsense like religion or pseudoscience. That's how it's easy for most uneducated people to be duped.

There is no mixture, the Quran was revealed 1427 years ago and preserved word-for-word, the quran came before science and technology in the west.

pick any of the three fields and the Quran explains it, way before your mythical fairy tales.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote: if you

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
if you think there is no God, then just kill yourself.

you have nothing to lose if you are correct.

[the fact is that you do not want to die because you know there is God waiting for you on the other end]

What? wtf

The reason we non-theists have no urge to kill ourselves is that we find our lives meaningful and thoroughly enjoyable. We also realize that this life is the only life there will ever be.

We are not in the least afraid of the depraved sky-daddy of the Abrahamic religions waiting to throw us into the pits of Hell because it is blatantly obvious that he is a nothing but a fiction.

It is the theist who should be happy to throw away his life because he has deluded himself into thinking he will have another one in some heavenly realm. Indeed, one need only look into the atrocities of 9/11 and 7/7 (and there are many others) to realize that all too many Moslems are eager to commit suicide in exchange for the opportunity to indiscriminantly murder scores of non-Moslem men, women and children.


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We also want to continue

We also want to continue living. After all, even with no afterlife, unless your life is really bad, wouldn't you want to keep experiencing life and being with those you love and care about than just having everything just stop?

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ALMALHAMAH wrote:AiiA

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:

There's no god.

if you think there is no God, then just kill yourself.

you have nothing to lose if you are correct.

[the fact is that you do not want to die because you know there is God waiting for you on the other end]


I don’t think there’s no god; I know there’s no god.
Why do you think there’s a god? Do you have any evidence?

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Randalllord wrote:
There is usually mixture of science and history in most nonsense like religion or pseudoscience. That's how it's easy for most uneducated people to be duped.

There is no mixture, the Quran was revealed 1427 years ago


1427? Where did you get that number? 2005-1427 = 578CE. Did something happen that year?
Quote:
and preserved word-for-word, the quran came before science and technology in the west.
What happened in the middle east after that? Answer: Nothing.

Quote:
pick any of the three fields and the Quran explains it, way before your mythical fairy tales.
So you think there are only 3 fields? I guess the Koran taught you that? What is it that you think the Koran explains? I don’t have any fairy tales; you must be referring to people who think there’s a god.

Which science do you claim the Koran preceded? The Egyptians built the pyramids 6000 BCE. The Arabians did not build anything then. I don’t think the Arabians built anything.

The invention of the wheel can be considered as a technology as also can clothing and hunting tools. These were invented before the koran.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Quote:if you think there is

Quote:
if you think there is no God, then just kill yourself.

You should be careful with saying something like that, it sounds like you are suggesting that we should die.

Quote:
you have nothing to lose if you are correct.

Only if you assume life means nothing. I think life is a great thing so I'm not going to just end it.

Quote:
[the fact is that you do not want to die because you know there is God waiting for you on the other end]

Others put this better, but I'll say it anyway.

The atheist has everything to lose if we die as, from my point of view, there is nothing after death. Now if you really think we know there is a god how can you explain the fact every atheist at least doubts the existence of it if not deny the existence? That would be like me saying every theist knows there is no god, but blah blah blah.

To me it sounds like you, weather you knew it or not, took an argument against theists turned it around and added the "There are no Atheist" argument...


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Hey

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Hey everyone how you doin out there, umm that's right im a muslim Raised Brow

Don't worry about it i don't have a bomb or anything like that relax. Laughing out loud

All jokes aside, i like to discuss religion and science, because i believe strongly that my religion is verified by science.

I have material in the Quran that talks about astronomy, geology, and biology.

Anything you want to ask (even if it concerns violence) feel free to initiate a debate.

'todangst' invited me here, so let me know watsup people.

Very nice to meet you, Armageddon.
Certainly you will understand my concerns regarding the need for an end to the Earth.
Many people of all faiths and non-faiths want there to be a future free of fear for our children to enjoy and prosper in LIFE. Regardless of where their 'souls' might end up, we want their material existences to overshadow our own.

I have found an intrinsically dominant, characteristic hypocrisy between all of the religions that involve an armageddon, al malhamah, ragnarok, gotterdammerung, apocalypse, or whatever. The hypocrisy is the sheer futility of planning for a future that has been guaranteed by these prophecies written 1400 to 1900 years ago not to happen.

Therein lies the danger concerning these religions and their place in a world full of life. The overwhelming desire to see the promised paradise has become the foundation for many atrocious actions taken by the adherents of every death cult religion including islam and christianity.

How long will it take before someone realizes that if the end has not come by now then perhaps the universal bet has been lost with humanity's progression being the winner?

We are still in the infancy of our civilizations. Empires rise and fall to the tune of doomsayers in every ideology. Should we continue to listen to the monotonous drone of "THE END IS NEAR!" or simply put it aside as just another possibility while looking far away into the rational future?

The argument can be made that the prophecies might influence the reality by causing the believers of the prophecy to try to bring about something that resembles a collection of interpretations of suwar put in different order to make chronological events seemingly fulfill the prophecy.

Why must the kafir burn? I have never found the explanation for allah's and muhammad's hatred for the unbelievers. The closest pseudo-explanation is that unbelievers are liars and thieves. Of course, some muslim apologetics say that we have translated it incorrectly that it is liars and thieves that are the unbelievers but that seems counterintuitive.

I'll go slower. Is there a particular english translation of the q'uran that you could endorse for the purposes of this discussion?

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some proof for you

AiiA wrote:

I don’t think there’s no god; I know there’s no god.
Why do you think there’s a god? Do you have any evidence?

The Quran is the revelation sent to the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) when he was between the ages of 40-63 years old, ohh and it was 1374 years ago, i was going by another calender 1427. the difference of 2006-1427 is the time from the calender we use as AD to the Islamic calender marked by the Hijrah (Pilgramige from Mekka to Medina).

Backgroud information about Muhammed (pbuh), orphaned at a young age and an illeterate. Read what this in the Quran, you will be amazed 1374 years ago that ANYONE had this knowledge:

{ We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed looking substance)... } (Quran, 23:12-14)

Professor More asked about this revelation: http://www.islam-guide.com/video/moore-1.ram

{ Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... } (Quran, 41:11)

{ Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... } (Quran, 21:30)

Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists, comments on this: http://www.islam-guide.com/video/kroner-1.ram

http://www.islam-guide.com/video/kroner-2.ram

ill post more soon.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Wait... What? Did you just

Wait... wtf What? Did you just say there is a god because Muhammed said he talked to him?

Then talked about humans come from clay, where some sort of leech, then some sort of "chewed looking substance". What does that have to do with the question?

And then talked about smoke and something about how we can't separate god and reality. Why?


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:AiiA

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:

There's no god.

if you think there is no God, then just kill yourself.

you have nothing to lose if you are correct.

This logic is not rational, it's severely flawed. In fact, if one doesn't believe there is a god, they have everything to lose by killing themself. I only get this one life, I must use it up wisely, killing myself takes away everything that I can prove, everything that is real.

On the other hand if I do believe there is a god, and I believe there is a heaven awaiting me, then I am suffering the problems of Earth down here when instead I could be in a blissful seemingly perfect environment. If I truly believed in a god, I would be rushing to heaven, as this life is nothing, and I gain everything by leaving it. This is why we see suicide bombers in your religion. They are rushing to heaven, and of course commiting attrocious acts of violence because they believe it will earn them a place there.

Quote:
[the fact is that you do not want to die because you know there is God waiting for you on the other end]

Using this logic, it would appear the fact is that you know that your god doesn't exist, and you aren't rushing to find out.

edit in: after getting past this post I noticed you folks addressed this, and Almahahamamaam didn't respond to it. Hmmmmmmm.

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ALMALHAMAH
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God does exist

Sapient wrote:

This logic is not rational, it's severely flawed. In fact, if one doesn't believe there is a god, they have everything to lose by killing themself. I only get this one life, I must use it up wisely, killing myself takes away everything that I can prove, everything that is real.

You see it is the athiest love of life i am trying to point out. By your obvious reply, you wouldn't wish for death and you are saddened by it, due to the fact that you think the universe is strictly materialistic. This is a deception, all we see is a result of projected images in our brain, which is nothing more than electrical impulses. You are also afraid of death because you are afraid of being responsible for your actions on earth.

Sapient wrote:

On the other hand if I do believe there is a god, and I believe there is a heaven awaiting me, then I am suffering the problems of Earth down here when instead I could be in a blissful seemingly perfect environment. If I truly believed in a god, I would be rushing to heaven, as this life is nothing, and I gain everything by leaving it. This is why we see suicide bombers in your religion. They are rushing to heaven, and of course commiting attrocious acts of violence because they believe it will earn them a place there.

Suicide is strictly forbidden in Islam:

SUICIDAL BOMBINGS ARE AN ACT OF WAR **AND** SUICIDE and therefore haram (prohibited) since suicide (INTENTIONALLY KILLING ONESELF) is such a terrible sin with terrible consequences.

Hadith - Al-Muwatta 21.9 (Similar proofs in 21.8, 21.10, and 21.11)
Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Ibn Umar that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, saw the corpse of a woman who had been slain in one of the raids, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children.

Hadith - Bukhari 7:670, Narrated Abu Huraira

The Prophet said, "Whoever purposely throws himself from a mountain and kills himself, will be in the (Hell) Fire falling down into it and abiding therein perpetually forever; and whoever drinks poison and kills himself with it, he will be carrying his poison in his hand and drinking it in the (Hell) Fire wherein he will abide eternally forever; and whoever kills himself with an iron weapon, will be carrying that weapon in his hand and stabbing his abdomen with it in the (Hell) Fire wherein he will abide eternally forever."

Hadith - Muslim #6485

Hammam b. Munabbih said: Abu Huraira narrated to us ahadith from Allah's Messenger and out of these one is that Allah's Messenger said: none amongst you should make a request for death, and do not call for it before it comes, for when any of you dies, he ceases (to do good) deeds and the life of a believer is not prolonged but for goodness.

Sapient wrote:

Using this logic, it would appear the fact is that you know that your god doesn't exist, and you aren't rushing to find out.

edit in: after getting past this post I noticed you folks addressed this, and Almahahamamaam didn't respond to it. Hmmmmmmm.

My logic is very rational, there is a creator who created the universe the earth and all life on it. Don't you see how many billions of stars out there, and how many billions of galaxies out there with planets orbiting stars in perfect order?

In our solar system, Even a slight solar flare of the sun has enough energy as 1 billion atomic bombs (same used on Hiroshima) which would wipe all life on earth if it wasn't for the Vann Allen Belt.

This example is just one of the many defenses are put in place for us, and yet we all take it for granted.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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AiiA wrote:Quote:pick any of

AiiA wrote:
Quote:
pick any of the three fields and the Quran explains it, way before your mythical fairy tales.
So you think there are only 3 fields? I guess the Koran taught you that? What is it that you think the Koran explains? I don’t have any fairy tales; you must be referring to people who think there’s a god.

Three fields of science: biology, astronomy, and geology.

AiiA wrote:

Which science do you claim the Koran preceded? The Egyptians built the pyramids 6000 BCE. The Arabians did not build anything then. I don’t think the Arabians built anything.

The Quran preceded embryology, astrology, & medicine.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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at first i thought maybe

at first i thought maybe todangst referred you here because you actually were rational, but now i see it's just because he got tired of dealing with your incessant reliance on logical fallacy as proof....great.
join the loaf.

Fear is the mindkiller.


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:AiiA

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:

I don’t think there’s no god; I know there’s no god.
Why do you think there’s a god? Do you have any evidence?

The Quran is the revelation sent to the prophet Muhammed

Muhammed imagined it. Because there is no god.

Quote:
when he was between the ages of 40-63 years old, ohh and it was 1374 years ago, i was going by another calender 1427. the difference of 2006-1427 is the time from the calender we use as AD to the Islamic calender marked by the Hijrah (Pilgramige from Mekka to Medina).

2005-1374= 631CE Muhammed is dead.

Quote:
Backgroud information about Muhammed (pbuh), orphaned at a young age and an illeterate. Read what this in the Quran, you will be amazed 1374 years ago that ANYONE had this knowledge:

There is no knowledge in the Koran.

Quote:
{ We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed looking substance)... } (Quran, 23:12-14)

This is not knowledge. It is fantasy.

Quote:
Professor More asked about this revelation: http://www.islam-guide.com/video/moore-1.ram

{ Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... } (Quran, 41:11)

{ Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... } (Quran, 21:30)

Magic does not exist.

Quote:
Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists, comments on this: http://www.islam-guide.com/video/kroner-1.ram

http://www.islam-guide.com/video/kroner-2.ram

ill post more soon.

If the Koran had so much knowledge why did the people in the middle east live in caves?
But nothing you posted here shows any evidence of any god.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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darth_josh wrote: Why must

darth_josh wrote:

Why must the kafir burn? I have never found the explanation for allah's and muhammad's hatred for the unbelievers. The closest pseudo-explanation is that unbelievers are liars and thieves. Of course, some muslim apologetics say that we have translated it incorrectly that it is liars and thieves that are the unbelievers but that seems counterintuitive.

I'll go slower. Is there a particular english translation of the q'uran that you could endorse for the purposes of this discussion?

The Kuffar are nonbelievers in God, and they will go to hell if they die a nonbeliever. Allah created man with free will, but with this free will comes responsibility. Every man and women were created for the purpose of worship, but not secluded only to worship, but to also work and earn a living and being gratefull for what you have.

I do not think there is an excuse for most people to reject the existence of God. Especially this generation who have no excuse for not worshiping God because you can use the internet to do research.

About the Quran-
This is a pretty decent english translation, as i know both languages, the english translation is not perfect (but then again you can never perfectly translate one language to another):

http://muttaqun.com/quran/index.html

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote: You see it

ALMALHAMAH wrote:

You see it is the athiest love of life i am trying to point out. By your obvious reply, you wouldn't wish for death and you are saddened by it, due to the fact that you think the universe is strictly materialistic.

I didn't say I was saddened by it, but ok, you seem to get my point.

Quote:
This is a deception

Prove it. So far, you're not even in the ballpark.

Quote:
You are also afraid of death because you are afraid of being responsible for your actions on earth.

No. I'm not afraid of death at all, I embrace reality every step of the way. If I was so scared of death and going to hell, I would cop out like you and pick a god to believe in, in hopes that I guessed right out of the thousands to choose from. You know, if Yahweh is the right god he doesn't like people having other gods before him, so I'd imagine you're scared too, eh? Oh, no,. you're not scared of death? If not, then you know how I feel.

Alahamama wrote:

Suicide is strictly forbidden in Islam.

This doesn't change the fact that peope have martyred themselves and are continuing to martyr themselves as they believe it is a fast track to heaven.

Sapient wrote:

My logic is very rational, there is a creator who created the
universe the earth and all life on it.

So far, you haven't entered anywhere near rational. You're making assumptions, with no evidence, it is the epitome of irrational.

Quote:
Don't you see how many billions of stars out there, and how many billions of galaxies out there with planets orbiting stars in perfect order?

Yeah I see the billions of stars, galaxies, and what not, however there is not perfect order. Space is likely the most chaotic and disorder place I can conceive of.

Quote:
In our solar system, Even a slight solar flare of the sun has enough energy as 1 billion atomic bombs (same used on Hiroshima) which would wipe all life on earth if it wasn't for the Vann Allen Belt. This example is just one of the many defenses are put in place for us, and yet we all take it for granted.

Praise the flying spaghetti monster! You see your logic does nothing. It isn't proving any sky daddy, and if it is it certainly isn't proving yours over Thor.

There would be no life to contemplate life if the keys for life weren't here. In other words, right now, there is nobody on Mars saying, look at how everything is in order and perfect and we have defenses and the keys to life because GET THIS... there is no intelligent life on mars. However, the keys to breed life are right here on Earth, because the keys to life are here, we are able to look back on it and marvel at the amazing amount of possibilities that happened in order for us to be here at this point in time.

You should watch the Cosmos series by Carl Sagan, or at least the first episode. It touches on some of these galactic wonders that you are marveled by. It's in our video section. Click Videos at the top of the page.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


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Answering Voiderest

Voiderest wrote:
Wait... wtf What? Did you just say there is a god because Muhammed said he talked to him?

Allah sent his message (The Quran & hadith) to the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) through the most powerfull angel Gabrael.

The christians interpret Gabrael as the holy spirit, and they falsly worship Him.

Voiderest wrote:

Then talked about humans come from clay, where some sort of leech, then some sort of "chewed looking substance". What does that have to do with the question?

And then talked about smoke and something about how we can't separate god and reality. Why?

you asked for evidence, and i posted some verses from the past that were unknown at the time.

We can't seperate God and reality, because who created reality?

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Quote:Allah sent his message

Quote:
Allah sent his message (The Quran & hadith) to the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) through the most powerfull angel Gabrael.

Again all you are saying is that you know of a guy who talked to god so god must exist.

Quote:
The christians interpret Gabrael as the holy spirit, and they falsly worship Him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel#Gabriel_in_Christianity He isn't worship anymore then angel is worshiped...

Quote:
you asked for evidence, and i posted some verses from the past that were unknown at the time.

I could write a book too... It doesn't prove anything, but the existence of an idea.

Quote:
We can't seperate God and reality, because who created reality?

You assume reality needed creating...


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Reply to Voiderest

Voiderest wrote:
I could write a book too... It doesn't prove anything, but the existence of an idea.
Quote:

but now you have scientific resources to use in writing your 'book', in 620-632 AD where is the scientific knoweldge at that time that claims:

Quran 21:33
And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, they swim along in an orbit.

Quran 16:16
And landmarks (signposts, etc. during the day) and by the stars (during the night), they (mankind) guide themselves.

Voiderest wrote:

We can't seperate God and reality, because who created reality?
You assume reality needed creating...

And you assume that reality creates itself, which is even more illogical. tsk-tsk

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Quote:Quran 21:33 And He it

Quote:
Quran 21:33
And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, they swim along in an orbit.

Translations makes things interesting -> http://www.exmuslim.com/khaled/miracles/qm21-33.htm

Quote:
Quran 16:16
And landmarks (signposts, etc. during the day) and by the stars (during the night), they (mankind) guide themselves.

So we can use signs and the stars as refrence points to make sure we are going the right direction? How does that prove god?

I could write a book and say the sky is blue in one place and say my god made it blue, but that doesn't prove god or any other claim.

Quote:
And you assume that reality creates itself, which is even more illogical. tsk-tsk

No I'm saying there was no creation of reality. You are assuming everything needs creating.


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nice try

Quote:
Translations makes things interesting -> http://www.exmuslim.com/khaled/miracles/qm21-33.htm

hahah its cute you posted a site about the arabic meaning of the verse they each swim along in an orbit, no matter any way you say it, still has the same meaning.

I know arabic and this is what it means, i don't need an exmuslim translator to tell me the meaning.

Quote:
You are assuming everything needs creating."

I don't know about you, but matter doesn't just create itself out of nowhere.

maybe this is a topic you don't like to think about much, the origin of life, the origin of the universe before the big bang, etc.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote: AiiA

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:
Quote:
pick any of the three fields and the Quran explains it, way before your mythical fairy tales.
So you think there are only 3 fields? I guess the Koran taught you that? What is it that you think the Koran explains? I don’t have any fairy tales; you must be referring to people who think there’s a god.

Three fields of science: biology, astronomy, and geology.


What about these? There are more than 3.
Fields of science
Natural sciences
Physics
• Acoustics
• Agrophysics
• Astrodynamics
• Astronomy
• Astrophysics
• Atomic, Molecular, and Optical physics
• Biophysics
• Computational physics
• Condensed matter physics
• Cosmology
• Cryogenics
• Dynamics
• Fluid dynamics
• Materials physics
• Mathematical physics
• Mechanics
• Nuclear physics
• Optics
• Particle physics (or High Energy Physics)
• Plasma physics
• Polymer physics
• Thermodynamics
• Statics
• Solid State
• Vehicle dynamics

Chemistry
• Analytical chemistry
• Biochemistry
• Computational chemistry
• Electrochemistry
• Inorganic chemistry
• Materials science
• Organic chemistry
• Polymer chemistry
• Physical chemistry
• Quantum chemistry
• Spectroscopy
• Stereochemistry
• Thermochemistry

Earth sciences
• Geodesy
• Geography
• Geology
• Hydrology
• Mineralogy
• Meteorology
• Oceanography
• Paleontology
• Limnology
• Seismology
• Soil science

Biology
• Anatomy
• Astrobiology
• Biochemistry
• Bioinformatics
• Biophysics
• Biotechnology
• Botany
• Cell biology
• Cladistics
• Cytology
• Developmental biology
• Ecology
• Entomology
• Epidemiology
• Ethology
• Evolution (Evolutionary biology)
• Evolutionary developmental biology
• Freshwater Biology
• Genetics (Population genetics, Genomics, Proteomics)
• Histology
• Immunology
• Marine biology
• Microbiology
• Molecular Biology
• Morphology
• Neuroscience
• Ontogeny
• Phycology (Algology)
• Phylogeny
• Physical anthropology
• Physical therapy
• Physiology
• Population dynamics
• Structural biology
• Taxonomy
• Toxicology
• Virology
• Zoology

Social sciences
• Anthropology
o Archaeology
• Demography
• Economics
• Geography
• Law
• Linguistics
o Morphology
o Phonetics
o Phonology
o Semantics
o Syntax
• Philosophy
• Political Science
• Psychology
o Behavior analysis
o Biopsychology
o Cognitive psychology
o Clinical psychology
o Developmental psychology
o Educational psychology
o Experimental psychology
o Forensic psychology
o Health psychology
o Humanistic psychology
o Industrial and organizational psychology
o Neuropsychology
o Personality psychology
o Psychometrics
o Psychology of religion
o Psychophysics
o Sensation and perception psychology
o Social psychology
• Sociology

Interdisciplinary and applied sciences
• Cognitive sciences
o Cognitive neuroscience
o Cognitive psychology
o Neuropsychology
o Psycholinguistics
• Computer and information sciences
o Computational linguistics
o Computer science
o Cybernetics
o Information science
o Knowledge science
o Library science
o Systemics
• Engineering
o Agricultural engineering
o Agricultural science
o Biomedical engineering
o Civil engineering
o Computer engineering
o Control engineering
o Electrical engineering
o Language engineering
o Mechanical engineering
o Software engineering
• Health Science
o Conservation medicine
o Dentistry
o Medicine
? Anatomy
? Dermatology
? Gynecology
? Immunology
? Internal medicine
? Neurology
? Ophthalmology
? Pathology
? Pathophysiology
? Pediatrics
? Pharmacology
? Physical therapy
? Physiology
? Psychiatry
? Radiology
? Toxicology
o Veterinary medicine
• Military science
• Planetary science

Environmental sciences
• Environmental science
• Environmental chemistry

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:

Which science do you claim the Koran preceded? The Egyptians built the pyramids 6000 BCE. The Arabians did not build anything then. I don’t think the Arabians built anything.

The Quran preceded embryology, astrology, & medicine.


astrology is a superstition, not science

the Egyptians practiced medicine

there is no embryology in the koran

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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sun doesn't run??

Voiderest wrote:
Translations makes things interesting -> http://www.exmuslim.com/khaled/miracles/qm21-33.htm

Not knowing anything before posting dumb sites on the internet is interesting also.

The site says "Did the sun run?! It is run around itself only!! But never run in an orbit?! The earth is the one who run around the sun in an orbit, not vice versa?!"

Umm sorry to burst your bubble but the sun travels in the solar apex at the orbital speed is 217 km/s.

The solar apex, or the Apex of the Sun's Way, refers to the direction that the Sun travels through space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_apex

And also the verse that he states, does not mention the sun orbiting the earth, it states:

Quran 36.38
{ And the Sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him) the exalted in Might the All-Knowing. }

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Backgroud

ALMALHAMAH wrote:

Backgroud information about Muhammed (pbuh), orphaned at a young age and an illeterate.

Muhammed wasn't his real name. No one knows what his real name was. Muhammed died illiterate. Thats why the entire koran cannot be attributed to Muhammed. Many parts of it was most likely written by Ali, Abu Bakr, Zaid ibn Thabit, Uthman, ibn Thabit, and dozens of other tribesmen after mohammed died.

Mohammed was a bandit in later life.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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reply to AiiA

AiiA wrote:
Muhammed wasn't his real name. No one knows what his real name was.

wow rofl, another conspiracy theory, id like to hear this one with credible sources.

AiiA wrote:

Muhammed died illiterate. Thats why the entire koran cannot be attributed to Muhammed.

Do yourself a favor and look up the meaning of QURAN from arabic to english, google it.

AiiA wrote:

Many parts of it was most likely written by Ali, Abu Bakr, Zaid ibn Thabit, Uthman, ibn Thabit, and dozens of other tribesmen after mohammed died.

This shows your complete ignorance against Islam and you are talking about something which you are uneducated in.

The Quran was recited, memorized word-for-word during the time of Muhammed by his companions. It was even secretly written by the close companions of the prophet (pbuh) to preserve the verses, letter-by-letter.

It is impossible for it not to be from Muhammed (pbuh), even though he didn't write it, because it was recorded and memorized at the time of the revelations.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Quote:hahah its cute you

Quote:
hahah its cute you posted a site about the arabic meaning of the verse they each swim along in an orbit, no matter any way you say it, still has the same meaning.

Not if the idea of circular motion was attached to the word after it was written.

Here is something talking about the same issue we are talking about http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/avijitroy/flatearth.htm

Quote:
Not knowing anything before posting dumb sites on the internet is interesting also.

So now I know nothing? Arabic sure, but in order to detect movement you need a reference point. We know we go around the sun because the sun is one of our reference points. Also did you check out what it talks about after that?

Quote:
I don't know about you, but matter doesn't just create itself out of nowhere

AGAIN, I AM NOT SAYING THAT

Quote:
maybe this is a topic you don't like to think about much, the origin of life, the origin of the universe before the big bang, etc.

No, I think about it a lot.

The big bang is talking about how stuff is becoming stuff not really how nothing is becoming stuff. The origin of life is stuff becoming arranged in such a way as to define life. When I am talking about stuff I am talking about the things that make up the things that make up atoms or even smaller.

Before the big bang all the stuff that makes up everything could have being in any arrangement maybe even having different "higher arrangements", but we will never know what everything was like before that.

Let me lay out what my view of existence is. All matter/stuff, the things making everything (not atoms or sub-atomic particles), has always existed. The only thing that is changing is the arrangement of the matter. Life is just another arrangement nothing magical.

I, Stephen, am going on the record saying I do not believe matter was created, ever. In order to become created the thing must not have existed, as in coming out of nothing. This does not follow my scientific knowledge there fore I do not believe it. I believe all matter has existed for all time. This matter is not just atoms or just electrons, protons, and neutrons, but whatever is the smallest element of matter.


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ALMALHAMAH wrote: AiiA

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:
Muhammed wasn't his real name. No one knows what his real name was.

wow rofl, another conspiracy theory, id like to hear this one with credible sources.


wow you like that. You seem to be very emotional.
conspiracy? Apparently you are a paranoid. You’re not a schizophrenic are you?

mohammed means praiseworthy. Nobody named their kid praiseworthy when they were born. He was orphaned; you admitted that much, that’s why nobody knows his real name (if he had one)

muslim means to resign oneself
islam means submission
your religion should be called mohammedanism
koran means book

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:

Muhammed died illiterate. Thats why the entire koran cannot be attributed to Muhammed.

Do yourself a favor and look up the meaning of QURAN from arabic to english, google it.


Do yourself a favor and look up the meaning of reality
1. the state or quality of being real.
2. resemblance to what is real.
3. a real thing or fact.
4. real things, facts, or events taken as a whole; state of affairs: the reality of the business world; vacationing to escape reality.
5. Philosophy. a. something that exists independently of ideas concerning it.
b. something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.

6. something that is real.
7. something that constitutes a real or actual thing, as distinguished from something that is merely apparent.

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
AiiA wrote:

Many parts of it was most likely written by Ali, Abu Bakr, Zaid ibn Thabit, Uthman, ibn Thabit, and dozens of other tribesmen after mohammed died.

This shows your complete ignorance against Islam and you are talking about something which you are uneducated in.

Actually its shows you know nothing about your own fairy tale.

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
The Quran was recited, memorized word-for-word during the time of Muhammed by his companions. It was even secretly written by the close companions of the prophet (pbuh) to preserve the verses, letter-by-letter.

Why do you lie about this?

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
It is impossible for it not to be from Muhammed (pbuh), even though he didn't write it, because it was recorded and memorized at the time of the revelations.

Just proves how deluded you are.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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AiiA wrote:ALMALHAMAH wrote:

AiiA wrote:

there is no embryology in the koran

First of all AiiA i never said there were ONLY 3 branches of science.

Second of all the Quran says that there are 3 stages of a baby in the mother's womb, the bones ossify then the musles wrap around it.

the hadith says that the baby recieves life after 40 days in the mother's womb.

I can post the verses if you want to see them.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Message to AiiA

AiiA wrote:

wow you like that. You seem to be very emotional.
conspiracy? Apparently you are a paranoid. You’re not a schizophrenic are you?

mohammed means praiseworthy. Nobody named their kid praiseworthy when they were born. He was orphaned; you admitted that much, that’s why nobody knows his real name (if he had one)

See this proves you don't know what you are talking about, he was orphaned at age 6! His mother Amina, died at age 6, and his father died before he was BORN. Amina named her son Muhammed Ibn Abdullah.

Quote:
muslim means to resign oneself
islam means submission
your religion should be called mohammedanism
koran means book

Muslim means one who submits
islam means submission to God.
No it shouldn't be called mohammedanism because we don't worship muhammed.
The Quran means RECITATION

Seriously man do some research, you are very ignorant.

Quote:
ALMALHAMAH wrote:
The Quran was recited, memorized word-for-word during the time of Muhammed by his companions. It was even secretly written by the close companions of the prophet (pbuh) to preserve the verses, letter-by-letter.

Why do you lie about this?

According to the dominant tradition, Muhammad's companions began recording all the Suras in writing before Muhammad died in 632 CE. Thus Muslims proudly cite, two different mechanisms were in place -- oral and written -- to help ensure that no corruption of the text took place over time.

http://www.wacklepedia.com/q/qu/qur_an.html

maybe next time you can do some research before you open your mouth.

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
It is impossible for it not to be from Muhammed (pbuh), even though he didn't write it, because it was recorded and memorized at the time of the revelations.

Just proves how deluded you are.

No my friend, proves how deluded you are and how ignorant you are.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Voiderest wrote: I, Stephen,

Voiderest wrote:
I, Stephen, am going on the record saying I do not believe matter was created, ever. In order to become created the thing must not have existed, as in coming out of nothing. This does not follow my scientific knowledge there fore I do not believe it. I believe all matter has existed for all time. This matter is not just atoms or just electrons, protons, and neutrons, but whatever is the smallest element of matter.

Science does nothing to answer how the dense gasseous material that first made up the big bang formed.

Nor can science answer the origion of life. Evolution claims that we are all descended from the same ancestor, and that all life came about as a result of the first living organism. but it does nothing to explain HOW this organism came about.
It vaguely states under "favorable conditions", well if that is true scientists can replicate these "favorable conditions" in order to CREATE life.

back to the big bag theory, There is no proof that the hot and dense gasseous material had always existed. (The Quran mentions that the whole universe was one entity before it expanded)

'Where there is smoke there is fire' is the saying, so where did that smoke/gass come from?

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Message to AiiA Quote:AiiA

Message to AiiA

Quote:
AiiA wrote:

wow you like that. You seem to be very emotional.
conspiracy? Apparently you are a paranoid. You’re not a schizophrenic are you?

mohammed means praiseworthy. Nobody named their kid praiseworthy when they were born. He was orphaned; you admitted that much, that’s why nobody knows his real name (if he had one)

See this proves you don't know what you are talking about, he was orphaned at age 6! His mother Amina, died at age 6, and his father died before he was BORN. Amina named her son Muhammed Ibn Abdullah.

Quote:
Quote:
muslim means to resign oneself
islam means submission
your religion should be called mohammedanism
koran means book

Muslim means one who submits
islam means submission to God.
No it shouldn't be called mohammedanism because we don't worship muhammed.
The Quran means RECITATION

Seriously man do some research, you are very ignorant.

Quote:
Quote:
ALMALHAMAH wrote:
The Quran was recited, memorized word-for-word during the time of Muhammed by his companions. It was even secretly written by the close companions of the prophet (pbuh) to preserve the verses, letter-by-letter.

Why do you lie about this?

According to the dominant tradition, Muhammad's companions began recording all the Suras in writing before Muhammad died in 632 CE. Thus Muslims proudly cite, two different mechanisms were in place -- oral and written -- to help ensure that no corruption of the text took place over time.

http://www.wacklepedia.com/q/qu/qur_an.html

maybe next time you can do some research before you open your mouth.

Quote:
ALMALHAMAH wrote:
It is impossible for it not to be from Muhammed (pbuh), even though he didn't write it, because it was recorded and memorized at the time of the revelations.

Just proves how deluded you are.

No my friend, proves how deluded you are and how ignorant you

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Science

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Science does nothing to answer how the dense gasseous material that first made up the big bang formed.

Everything collapses into on singular point, one big ass black hole.

Quote:
There is no proof that the hot and dense gasseous material had always existed. (The Quran mentions that the whole universe was one entity before it expanded)

We can not destroy matter, we can not create matter, we have not seen this take place. If the thing can not be created then it wasn't created. So its not that hard to think they have always been.

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'Where there is smoke there is fire' is the saying, so where did that smoke/gass come from?

Again stuff didn't come from nothing.

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Nor can science answer the origion of life. Evolution claims that we are all descended from the same ancestor, and that all life came about as a result of the first living organism. but it does nothing to explain HOW this organism came about.
It vaguely states under "favorable conditions", well if that is true scientists can replicate these "favorable conditions" in order to CREATE life.

Right evolution doesn't talk about where the first then came from, that would be another theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life

As you can see there are a lot of theories out there, but this is a very hard question to answer. However being a hard question does not make it impossible to answer.


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Randalllord

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Randalllord wrote:
There is usually muxture of science and history in most nonsense like religion or pseudoscience. That's how it's easy for most uneducated people to be duped.

There is no mixture, the Quran was revealed 1427 years ago and preserved word-for-word, the quran came before science and technology in the west.

pick any of the three fields and the Quran explains it, way before your mythical fairy tales.

The idea of revealed knowledge is absurd. If there were a God, why would he only reveal his special message to only one person. If he was God, couldn't/wouldn't he reveal his word to everyone.

One problem with a revealed message is that all others are supposed to believe this story. There is no way to verify a revealed message. It could be real, a delusion of an insane person or a fraud. How can an outsider tell which one it is? This is NOT how science is done.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca


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Quote:The idea of revealed

Quote:
The idea of revealed knowledge is absurd. If there were a God, why would he only reveal his special message to only one person. If he was God, couldn't/wouldn't he reveal his word to everyone.

One problem with a revealed message is that all others are supposed to believe this story. There is no way to verify a revealed message. It could be real, a delusion of an insane person or a fraud. How can an outsider tell which one it is? This is NOT how science is done.

Where is the test in that, in your assumption that God shouldve talked to everyone, then what is the point of testing us then? Don't we have brains, we can come to a conclusion based on the facts. We were created with free will in order for us to determine individually that God exists.

He sent many prophets with many miracles, He sent his last prophet to all of mankind:

{ "We have not sent you (O Muhammad) but as a universal (Messenger) to men giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin) but most men understand not." } (Qurân 34: 28)

and God could have if He wanted to:

{ And if you only could see when the Mujrimûn (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) shall hang their heads before their Lord (saying): "Our Lord! We have now seen and heard, so send us back (to the world), we will do righteous good deeds. Verily! We now believe with certainty."

And if We had willed, surely! We would have given every person his guidance, but the Word from Me took effect (about evil­doers), that I will fill Hell with jinn and mankind together.

Then taste you (the torment of the Fire) because of your forgetting the Meeting of this Day of yours, (and) surely! We too will forget you, so taste you the abiding torment for what you used to do.

Only those believe in Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), who, when they are reminded of them fall down prostrate, and glorify the Praises of their Lord, and they are not proud } (Quran 32:12-15)

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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ALMALHAMAH wrote:Quote:The

ALMALHAMAH wrote:
Quote:
The idea of revealed knowledge is absurd. If there were a God, why would he only reveal his special message to only one person. If he was God, couldn't/wouldn't he reveal his word to everyone.

One problem with a revealed message is that all others are supposed to believe this story. There is no way to verify a revealed message. It could be real, a delusion of an insane person or a fraud. How can an outsider tell which one it is? This is NOT how science is done.

Where is the test in that, in your assumption that God shouldve talked to everyone, then what is the point of testing us then? Don't we have brains, we can come to a conclusion based on the facts. We were created with free will in order for us to determine individually that God exists.

He sent many prophets with many miracles, He sent his last prophet to all of mankind:

{ "We have not sent you (O Muhammad) but as a universal (Messenger) to men giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin) but most men understand not." } (Qurân 34: 28)

and God could have if He wanted to:

{ And if you only could see when the Mujrimûn (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, etc.) shall hang their heads before their Lord (saying): "Our Lord! We have now seen and heard, so send us back (to the world), we will do righteous good deeds. Verily! We now believe with certainty."

And if We had willed, surely! We would have given every person his guidance, but the Word from Me took effect (about evil­doers), that I will fill Hell with jinn and mankind together.

Then taste you (the torment of the Fire) because of your forgetting the Meeting of this Day of yours, (and) surely! We too will forget you, so taste you the abiding torment for what you used to do.

Only those believe in Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), who, when they are reminded of them fall down prostrate, and glorify the Praises of their Lord, and they are not proud } (Quran 32:12-15)

According to your argument, Muhammed was not tested as God revealed himself to him. Why does he get special treatment? Why would a god make my brain in such a way the he knows that I won't accept such evidence like "revealed knowledge" as proof and then sit in judgement of me?

Is there some method of verifying revealed knowledge? On many TV station all across America every day, there are preachers claiming that God shared all sorts of kooky ideas with them. Why don't you believe them? Do you doubt the word of God? Eye-wink

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca


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Randalllord wrote:According

Randalllord wrote:

According to your argument, Muhammed was not tested as God revealed himself to him. Why does he get special treatment? Why would a god make my brain in such a way the he knows that I won't accept such evidence like "revealed knowledge" as proof and then sit in judgement of me?

Muhammed (pbuh) was indeed tested, big time. The first time he recieved the revelation from God through the Angel Gabrael, he was terrified and thought himself crazy.

Indeed his wife Khadija asked her cousin, Waraqa bin Nawfal ( who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters):

Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died.

He was also tested when his wife and uncle both died as a result of being starved out by his own clan, Quraish. He had never seen God until the night journey (Isra') where he was given the criteria of prayer (5 times a day).

Quote:
Is there some method of verifying revealed knowledge? On many TV station all across America every day, there are preachers claiming that God shared all sorts of kooky ideas with them. Why don't you believe them? Do you doubt the word of God? Eye-wink

i don't believe them because the christians and jews have a history of altering their books and rules. if you look in the bible:

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie." (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8 )

therefore, i don't believe most of the stuff they preach, because it seems that they want to benefit themselvs politically or financially.

I do not doubt the fact that God sent down his messengers messages, amoung them: the Gospel/Injeel sent down to Jesus (pbuh). The bible you have now is not the Gospel/Injeel of Jesus, but it is the Gospel of MAN (if you don't believe me look at the names of each chapter, Mark, Matt, Luke... etc.)

Even if you read the bible, look at the point of view: it is neither God's nor the prophets' point of view. The point of view is some neutral third party, most of the time we don't know who.

The Future of the World and the United States can be summed up in one verse:

Quran 61:9
{ He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâmic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religio


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Providing evidence that the

Providing evidence that the Bible is erronous (I agree it is) does not prove that the Koran is therefore correct. This is called the excluded middle fallacy.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca