A VERY interesting conversation.

Dorothy s: hey
Dorothy s: i dunno if you can tell, ubt i'm pretty shook-up
Dorothy s: sorry
Jameson Sawyer: it does seem that way.. whassupp?
Dorothy s: i just got done watching richard dawkins and dan dennett on their ted talks
Dorothy s: and it puzzles me
Dorothy s: something that daniel said
Jameson Sawyer: what specifically
Dorothy s: that christians say you shouldn't listen to other religions because thats from satan
Jameson Sawyer: many christians do say that
Dorothy s: i've been a christian since i was a little girl, i was raised in christianity
Dorothy s: i can quote you tons of verses and tell you the whole story of the Bible in 15 minutes
Jameson Sawyer: it's a defense mechanism against other ideas
Dorothy s: my mom works at answers in genesis, my dad works at a christian school, i used to work at AIG
Jameson Sawyer: that's why many christians try to call atheism a religion
Dorothy s: i know ken ham personally and is a member of my own church
Dorothy s: in fact, i'm very good friends with his daughter, danielle
Dorothy s: but i cannot be a christian any longer, but i can't explain why
Dorothy s: and as far as origins go, its too confusing to take a side on it, i dont understand any of evolution, and creation does seem too fairy-taleish
Jameson Sawyer: many reasons that is possible.. using your OWN thoughts and not others could be one of the
Jameson Sawyer: if you'd like.. go to www.rationalresponders.com and sign up and start a thread asking questions
Dorothy s: i can't, ive tried forums before and people get annoyed with me cause i ask a LOT of questions
Dorothy s: when i want to research something, i reserach it fully and not heistate to ask
Jameson Sawyer: on rationalresponders?
Dorothy s: oh no i haven't
Jameson Sawyer: we have several biologists on the site
Dorothy s: its just
Dorothy s: when working at aig, it felt as though atheists had an agenda to stop christianity
Dorothy s: that unbelievers hate God, even atheists do despite their disbelief in a god
Jameson Sawyer: yes... that is the AIG way.. they create enemies so they can play hero
Dorothy s: now i dont believe that
Dorothy s: but i can't shake what i've been taught
Dorothy s: i feel as though i've truly been indoctrinated
Jameson Sawyer: i hate god the same way I hate leprechauns.. i.e. not at all
Dorothy s: and when i try to question it, the thoughts pour in
Dorothy s: i'm sorry if this is too much, its just
Jameson Sawyer: not at all, dear
Dorothy s: i'm in a very uncomfortable position right now mentally
Dorothy s: i was RAISEd in this stuff
Dorothy s: i surrended my life to christianity
Dorothy s: i've been indoctrinated by it, addicted to it
Jameson Sawyer: A lot of people get weirded out when they figure out that their beliefs are false
Dorothy s: its not that they're false, and even you saying that makes me even more squimish
Dorothy s: but, everything i've been taught, like dont ask questions, dont question God, dont tempt God, accept the Bible, his thoughts are highger
Dorothy s: just has a funny feeling to it
Jameson Sawyer: see.. I'm not saying there ISN'T a god.. just that the way the church describes such a possible entity is false
Dorothy s: like that in and of itself is an agenda
Dorothy s: yeah i hear ya
Dorothy s: and i'm not trying to argue, i really am listening
Jameson Sawyer: in my eyes it is... watch this.. it explains a lot of the tricks the church uses to fuel their own agendas
Jameson Sawyer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXMKPvWqgYk
Dorothy s: will you still be online if i watch it?
Jameson Sawyer: yes
Dorothy s: ok brb then
Jameson Sawyer: kk

**Time passes**

Dorothy s: *giggles* i remember ken ham's arguments about biblical glasses
Dorothy s: he said that creationists and evolutionists have the same evidence but different interpretations
Jameson Sawyer: hee.. yeah.. basically asking you to look at things 'my way'... the same evidence... funny since the actual evidence shows no proof of a global flood.. many regional floods spaced through time yes.. but not one planetary flood.
Dorothy s: but its been said that there are sea creatures fossilised on mountain tops...
Jameson Sawyer: it's pretty info-dense.. but http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
Jameson Sawyer: and in fairness.. thee is the AIG rebuttal.. we, as rational people actually listen to rebuttals and accept nothing on 'faith'
Dorothy s: i dont understand?
Dorothy s: thee?
Dorothy s: did you mean three
Jameson Sawyer: rational people don't use intuition or desires.. we use facts.. provable facts.. I mistyped.. meant to say 'there'
Dorothy s: oh ok i'm sorry
Jameson Sawyer: No problem.. good thinker.. lousy typist

Dorothy s: there was a guy, i think his display name was Bomb something, and he was arguing about abortion, and i'm totally pro-life since i am not able to have children
Dorothy s: he said, dorothy what are your facts and sources and evidence to make youpro-life since you yourself are not a christian
Jameson Sawyer: Actually.. I am pro-life as well.. I vote pro-choice because I feel I don't have the right to tell another what to do with their bodies
Dorothy s: kinda making me look like i have to have facts for EVERYTHING instead of going on personal feelings
Dorothy s: i agree with you, but he was like, where's your facts? wheres the support for your claim as pro-life since you're not christian
Jameson Sawyer: pro-life/pro-choice is a personal decision NO ONE should be allowed to make that decision for you
Jameson Sawyer: OK.. first thing you need to know.. there are as many atheist assholes as faithful assholes
Jameson Sawyer: Why I like the Responders site.. most there are truly rational, not the loudmouths
Dorothy s: i know, but i dont know if bomb is christian or atheist
Dorothy s: but i felt horrible because i know i'm not christian, and i was literally bawling cause him saying that only reminded me of my barrenness
Dorothy s: i didn't know what to say to him
Jameson Sawyer: I can see that.. and if it counts.. I sympathize.. I cannot have children either
Dorothy s: oh no
Jameson Sawyer: I chose to get a vasectomy because of my MS.. I could not in good conscience risk doing to a child what I'm going through
Dorothy s: awwww
Dorothy s: would your child have ms?
Jameson Sawyer: higher chance of it
Dorothy s: i had to leave the room when that happened too, i told them that if i could, i would adopt any baby that the mother wanted to abort
Dorothy s: i love, LOVE children
Dorothy s: and to think that they're being killed cause the mom's dont want them, or can't have them?
Jameson Sawyer: love doesn't have to be genetic-only.. if I feel the desire to raise a child, I can adopt
Jameson Sawyer: I completely agree that using abortion as birth control is wrong in my eyes
Dorothy s: one of my former friends almost committed an abortion against her child, and i was infuriated
Dorothy s: yeah, it is wrong in mine too
Jameson Sawyer: exactly. but that is literally a person's decision. I don't have the right to (no matter how it might upset me) tell another what to do with their bodies
Dorothy s: i felt it was with my friend, luckily she's having the child and raising it
Dorothy s: see
Dorothy s: not two months before that happened, i had a horrible nightmare, the only one i've ever had, and it was about a miscarriage
Jameson Sawyer: and that is your right.. if a woman asks MY opinion, I'll say adoption, safe haven for newborns laws, etc
Dorothy s: not shortly after i was told i couldn't have kids because my system didn't act right, or something
Dorothy s: and then she tells me she wanted an abortion?
Dorothy s: i was irate
Jameson Sawyer: Understandable reaction. No need to feel bad about it
Dorothy s: ok whew
Jameson Sawyer: Dorothy.. you're human.. you're allowed to have feelings
Dorothy s: whoa you understood what i was saying...
Dorothy s: i know that lol, sometimes i hate having feelings cause i dont understand them
Dorothy s: but whoa, i didn't even ask the question and you answered it
Dorothy s: thats amasing
Jameson Sawyer: I've worked rape/suicide crisis lines.. gotten pretty good at reading between the lines, as it were
Dorothy s: my fiance tries to read between the lines, but he kinda does it wrong lol
Dorothy s: but thats good of you to do what you do
Dorothy s: i used to be suicidally depressed
Jameson Sawyer: Question.. if I change your name, may I post this conversation on the Responders site? I can give you some of the comments. I do understand about suicide.. I thought about it a few years ago when I couldn't walk.
Jameson Sawyer: funny thing is.. it was actually my Atheism which saved my life.
Dorothy s: yeah go ahead  i dont mind if you use my first name
Dorothy s: no way
Dorothy s: how did it save your life?
Jameson Sawyer: Fair enough.. courtesy to get permission first
Dorothy s: oh i know
Jameson Sawyer: well.. I don't believe there is a life after this one.. so suicide would literally be wasting the entirety of my time on this planet
Dorothy s: honestly, i'm scared about that part
Dorothy s: i want to be able to live on after this life...
Dorothy s: i dont want it to end in another 60-80 years from now
Jameson Sawyer: understandable. My view is that since this is our only life.. why waste it?
Jameson Sawyer: A life after this one would be nice.. i just want some evidence of it before counting on it
Dorothy s: how can you have peace about believing that there is no life after this one
Jameson Sawyer: I freely admit I could be wrong.. and the classic line is.. I'll find out when I get there
Jameson Sawyer: Knowledge that my actions have helped others.
Jameson Sawyer: I literally know I have saved about a dozen people from suicide in my life.
Dorothy s: thats awesome
Dorothy s:
Dorothy s: ugh i forgot, i hate that smiley
Dorothy s: i prefer the msn one
Jameson Sawyer: exactly. so truthfully, I feel that I've done my part for humanity. I'm donating my brain when I die for MS research.. and if they find a cure using bits of my brain.. then I have truly helped thousands
Dorothy s:  thats awesome
Dorothy s: whether it be hell or heaven though, me personally, i would want to live on
Jameson Sawyer: I agree. Ever hear of Penn jilette?
Dorothy s: no, i'm sorry i havent
Jameson Sawyer: penn and teller
Jameson Sawyer: he had a great comment
Jameson Sawyer: sums up my thoughts on the subject pretty well
Jameson Sawyer: Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.
Dorothy s: i understand
Jameson Sawyer: and that's why I feel that atheism helped me save myself
Dorothy s: that life is what you make it, and no one else can do it for you
Jameson Sawyer: exactly
Dorothy s: thats why i'm so keen on learning the violin so much
Dorothy s: i'm trying to prove to people that if they get off their asses (sorry) and do something with their lives, they can not only benefit themselves, but others as well
Jameson Sawyer: wonderful.. I love the violin.. one of my ex'es played the violin and she was amazing
Dorothy s: isn't that kinda our unwritten duty? to help others?
Jameson Sawyer: why sorry.. I can walk now
Dorothy s: we're all in this shitty life togehter, lets work together to make it not as shitty?
Jameson Sawyer: yes it is.. and I completely agree
Dorothy s: you can walk now?
Jameson Sawyer: yep.. medicine and doctors and my own stubbornness
Dorothy s: !!!
Jameson Sawyer: plus a lot of help from family and friends
Jameson Sawyer: I actually wrorte an article about it
Jameson Sawyer: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/5599
Jameson Sawyer: But sadly, I must be leaving soon.. have to meet up with my love. But I'd love to talk again soon.
Dorothy s: ok  thank you so much for everything, please keep me posted
Jameson Sawyer: We can do it via messenger, or even by phone if it would make you more comfortable
Dorothy s: messenger is fine
Jameson Sawyer: so be it.. take care Dorothy. We'll talk soon.
Dorothy s: i'll add you to my hotmail so that i dont have to keep running yahoo all the time since i barely use it, so if you see a **Email changed out of respect** trying to add you, its me
Dorothy s: alright, take care
Jameson Sawyer: deal.. i'll change the email address

I feel like I've been able to help someone who was REALLY buried in the Dogma (She worked at Answers in enesis!) I'll keep you all informed since she gave me permission to relate this story to you all. If SHE can see reason.. maybe there's hope for a lot more than we think.