Feminism and Sexy Rationalists

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Feminism and Sexy Rationalists

I had a chance to recently read excerpts of Ariel Levy's Female Chauvanist Pigs. It is a lengthy discourse on how pornography has become mainstream. For example, the book describes women "objectifying" themselves by attending pole dancing classes or wearing cleavage showing crop tops with the Playboy emblem. Essentially the book is an attack on the pornification of culture and that women who participate in this raunch culture are being negatively conditioned by patriarchy.

 The book has been lauded by some on the sister site called Skepchicks, a website of rationalist/atheist women. Yet paradoxically, the folks on the site have themselves posed in erotic photos as part of the Skepchicks calendar. Even Rebecca Watson, one of the founders of Skepchick (and who posed for the calendar), has written pro-porn blogs. I find it very hard to believe that she is being hood-winked by male domination.

If you have read about Scarlett Johanssen, you'll get a sense of how rational she is on life in general not to mention that she is a committed atheist. And yet she is being duped by patriarchy for showing her cleavage?

If rational women want to look sexy and be objectified (if you want to call it that) by choice then I have a tough time buying Levy's argument. And for that matter, I have a tough time understanding what mainstream feminism is trying to accomplish in this regard. I know a number of intelligent women (eg. in Law and Medicine) who choose to wear tank tops and thongs at Halloween parties. And yes, the men at those parties will get boners. And mainstream feminists self-righteously call this Sluto-ween. In atheistic and more gender inclusive societies such as Norway or Sweden, there is far more raunch in the mainstream compared to the US. In a free, secular, liberal, democratic society wherein civil liberties are upheld, men and women have a choice of doing whatever they want as long as the rights of others are not violated. I just don't see anything wrong with a person wanting to look sexy. Am I wrong in this point of view? Or am I being blinded by patriarchy?


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I think everybody knows how I would respond. Never could decide between Aphrodite and Athena...so I want to be both.


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So that pole dancing class

So that pole dancing class I took objectified myself...wow, I was doing it to strenghen my body but what the hell do I know?


 

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 Thanks for the GIRL topic

 Thanks for the GIRL topic again ragdish.

- Generalizing, a rant, partly joking, evolution is so damn slow - Yell

Guys way of thinking ruins about everything. It's so awful our embarrassing history of keeping women as slaves. I look at men in disgust. We in the west haven't progressed much ahead of the mid-east.

I see men as weak, dumb innocent fools of our animalistic tendencies. To make progress Women must keep fighting male dominance. It is always the repressed that make for positive change. Progressive bold women are real heros.

Sometimes I wish I was a beautiful smart woman, then I could better shake things up, and yeah I would really flaunt my stuff. Women are so beautiful, and men are hypnotized IDIOTS. Yeah I AM prejudice, go girls, I am sick of men. Outlaw clothes ! ( unless it's cold ) Laughing

I trust women, more than men. Is it any wonder? 

Patriarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

 

 


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I think a woman that does

I think a woman that does what ever the fuck she wants is sexy. If its showing off those big boobies or wearing a burka if its her choice its the right choice.


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I AM GOD AS YOU

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

 Thanks for the GIRL topic again ragdish.

- Generalizing, a rant, partly joking, evolution is so damn slow - Yell

Guys way of thinking ruins about everything. It's so awful our embarrassing history of keeping women as slaves. I look at men in disgust. We in the west haven't progressed much ahead of the mid-east.

I see men as weak, dumb innocent fools of our animalistic tendencies. To make progress Women must keep fighting male dominance. It is always the repressed that make for positive change. Progressive bold women are real heros.

Sometimes I wish I was a beautiful smart woman, then I could better shake things up, and yeah I would really flaunt my stuff. Women are so beautiful, and men are hypnotized IDIOTS. Yeah I AM prejudice, go girls, I am sick of men. Outlaw clothes ! ( unless it's cold ) Laughing

I trust women, more than men. Is it any wonder? 

Patriarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

 

 

 

Men are scum. Men are responsible for wars and slavery. Ultimately men are responsible for religious fundamentalism and totalitarianism. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Inquisition, Hutus, etc...all men. Men lie, cheat, steal, murder and rape. And even the best of us, socially engineered to "perfection" like Gandhi were pricks to their spouses. Even Karl Marx couldn't perfect men.

So where do we go from here? Short of aborting fetuses who are XY, what is your rational solution? What is your blueprint for utopia?


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   Get drunk while we

   Get drunk while we can and let the girls do it their way.


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ragdish wrote:Men are

ragdish wrote:

Men are scum. Men are responsible for wars and slavery. Ultimately men are responsible for religious fundamentalism and totalitarianism. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Inquisition, Hutus, etc...all men. Men lie, cheat, steal, murder and rape. And even the best of us, socially engineered to "perfection" like Gandhi were pricks to their spouses.

You say that like its a bad thing >.>

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  that selfish little dick

  that selfish little big oh dick , damn it hurts ....


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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote: 

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:
  that selfish little dick , damn it hurts ....

I am god as you, im not sure if you familar with the LFG comic series, but that was the perfect retort, and had me laughing my ass off

 

Edit; BOO! no changing the post, its not funny any more ...

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  Girl Girls Girls,

  Girl Girls Girls,  LFG ? ,

laughing , fucking , girls ?

sounds good to me Laughing  lets promote it !

all GIRLS .... 


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ragdish wrote: Men are

ragdish wrote:
Men are scum. Men are responsible for wars and slavery. Ultimately men are responsible for religious fundamentalism and totalitarianism. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Inquisition, Hutus, etc...all men. Men lie, cheat, steal, murder and rape. And even the best of us, socially engineered to "perfection" like Gandhi were pricks to their spouses. Even Karl Marx couldn't perfect men.

In an alternate reality, the matriarchy develops weapons of mass passive-aggression, capable of damage which confounds retaliation by making the enemy believe they've already done so.

ragdish wrote:
So where do we go from here? Short of aborting fetuses who are XY, what is your rational solution? What is your blueprint for utopia?

If values were unified, any society could be perfect. If we all loved killing each other, and had no urge to settle into agriculture, we'd have been content long ago. There will always be persistent bubbles of discontentment destabilizing society. I'd err on the side of liberalism so as many people have the right to happiness as possible as long as they don't hurt anyone.


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  to the Glory of us ALL

  to the Glory of us ALL

Motley Crue - Girls, Girls, Girls  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJrSyFpK3iQ

Now let the girls do their thing ! be no fool , WE are ONE ! 

 


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magilum wrote:  I'd err

magilum wrote:

 I'd err on the side of liberalism so as many people have the right to happiness as possible as long as they don't hurt anyone.

Why do i feel an "unless" coming on? ;-p

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  We rock , save an xian

  We rock , save an xian


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ragdish wrote: I AM GOD AS

ragdish wrote:
I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Thanks for the GIRL topic again ragdish.

- Generalizing, a rant, partly joking, evolution is so damn slow - Yell

Guys way of thinking ruins about everything. It's so awful our embarrassing history of keeping women as slaves. I look at men in disgust. We in the west haven't progressed much ahead of the mid-east.

I see men as weak, dumb innocent fools of our animalistic tendencies. To make progress Women must keep fighting male dominance. It is always the repressed that make for positive change. Progressive bold women are real heros.

Sometimes I wish I was a beautiful smart woman, then I could better shake things up, and yeah I would really flaunt my stuff. Women are so beautiful, and men are hypnotized IDIOTS. Yeah I AM prejudice, go girls, I am sick of men. Outlaw clothes ! ( unless it's cold ) Laughing

I trust women, more than men. Is it any wonder?

Patriarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

 

 

 

Men are scum. Men are responsible for wars and slavery. Ultimately men are responsible for religious fundamentalism and totalitarianism. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Inquisition, Hutus, etc...all men. Men lie, cheat, steal, murder and rape. And even the best of us, socially engineered to "perfection" like Gandhi were pricks to their spouses. Even Karl Marx couldn't perfect men.

So where do we go from here? Short of aborting fetuses who are XY, what is your rational solution? What is your blueprint for utopia?

Each of these men had a woman in their life...and if not one as a partner a mother at the least. I wonder if women bring out the worst in men....?

Slowly building a blog at ~

http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/


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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:   

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:
   Get drunk while we can and let the girls do it their way.

 Unfortunately drunk men can be violent. I suggest getting them drunk and exiling them all to the Russian tundra for an extended period whilst the girls rule. But not all girls. I'm sure you'd agree that some girls like Ann Coulter ought to be exiled with them.


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While I class myself as a

While I class myself as a feminist in many respects, I will admit that I am most likely a dick. As for girls who just doll themselves up and don't leave anything to the imagination - I don't actually find them sexy because it gives the impression (although not necessarily true) that she is just a sex object with no intelligence. I actually find myself drawn towards women who don't put everything on show, and prefer going down the pub for a drink and an intellectual conversation.
Similarly with porn, I prefer watching it when its two normal people, just doing it than when you just have fucked up blonde girls doing whatever the man says.


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Jacob Cordingley

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
While I class myself as a feminist in many respects, I will admit that I am most likely a dick. As for girls who just doll themselves up and don't leave anything to the imagination - I don't actually find them sexy because it gives the impression (although not necessarily true) that she is just a sex object with no intelligence. I actually find myself drawn towards women who don't put everything on show, and prefer going down the pub for a drink and an intellectual conversation. Similarly with porn, I prefer watching it when its two normal people, just doing it than when you just have fucked up blonde girls doing whatever the man says.

Out of curiosity, how is watching and masturbating to "two normal people" in a porn video any less objectifying. And how does "doll" oneself imply lack of intelligence. When the character Julia in Orwell's 1984 tore off her Party uniform and dolled herself by painting her face and wearing a dress, did her character suddenly become less intelligent? Would you think any less of that intellectual woman in the pub if she decided to dress sexy?


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    John Anderson -

    John Anderson - Somebody Slap Me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTyEScrJwUw

in any color, all styles, all ages, wow girls !  I luv you ....


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ragdish wrote: Jacob

ragdish wrote:

Jacob Cordingley wrote:
While I class myself as a feminist in many respects, I will admit that I am most likely a dick. As for girls who just doll themselves up and don't leave anything to the imagination - I don't actually find them sexy because it gives the impression (although not necessarily true) that she is just a sex object with no intelligence. I actually find myself drawn towards women who don't put everything on show, and prefer going down the pub for a drink and an intellectual conversation. Similarly with porn, I prefer watching it when its two normal people, just doing it than when you just have fucked up blonde girls doing whatever the man says.

Out of curiosity, how is watching and masturbating to "two normal people" in a porn video any less objectifying. And how does "doll" oneself imply lack of intelligence. When the character Julia in Orwell's 1984 tore off her Party uniform and dolled herself by painting her face and wearing a dress, did her character suddenly become less intelligent? Would you think any less of that intellectual woman in the pub if she decided to dress sexy?

It's not the case that I actually believe this. Its more that this impression is given, when loud, gobby girls go out in mid-December in nothing but a mini-skirt and boob-tube or whatever the latest fashion is these days. Of course, they may well be rather intelligent, but any interaction I've had with this sort of girl has proved otherwise. Its not about getting dolled up, or making themselves look nice, its just the specific sort of girl.

Just so I don't get misrepresented. Its the impression given, not the actual facts. Sexual attraction is a lot about representations and appearance... you simply can't actually rationalise it.


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 Hey The Doomed Soul, that

 Hey The Doomed Soul, that "LFG comic series" speaks volumes ....

http://lfgcomic.com/page/1

Looking For Group: Slaughter Your World http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbazH6aE2g


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I'm all for everybody

I'm all for everybody doing/dressing however they please, although if you're rocking the muffin-top, please look at yourself before leaving home. The one thing I find odd about feminism is how quickly it turns into man-hating. Feminism is supposed to be about equality and women doing the things that they want to do, but it seems to result in male bashing in most social circles. I find this odd and troubling. All men are not assholes any more than all women are vapid idiots. The generalization bothers me.

Just for the record...I happen to like men. In some places more than others. :-P 


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kellym78 wrote: I'm all

kellym78 wrote:

I'm all for everybody doing/dressing however they please, although if you're rocking the muffin-top, please look at yourself before leaving home. The one thing I find odd about feminism is how quickly it turns into man-hating. Feminism is supposed to be about equality and women doing the things that they want to do, but it seems to result in male bashing in most social circles. I find this odd and troubling. All men are not assholes any more than all women are vapid idiots. The generalization bothers me.

Just for the record...I happen to like men. In some places more than others. :-P 

I couldn't agree more. Men are dogs but some are sweet, cute, furry and cuddly. And all you need to do to keep them happy and tame is to give them daily beef jerky and a leg to hump. Ahhhhhhh! The simple things in life. 

All joking aside, a detailed analysis of contemporary feminism reveals a wide array of ideologies. What the mainstream portrays is a restricted point of view on issues such as beauty/sex in the media or pornography. Libertarian or equity feminists such as Wendy McElroy (also an atheist/rationalist) who wrote XXX: A Woman's Right to Pornography (http://www.wendymcelroy.com/xxx/) are regarded as anti-feminists for not following the party line. Other women like Violet Blue (who wrote The Smart Girl's Guide to Porn) or Rachel Kramer Bussel (the Lusty Lady) are similarly viewed as unmutuals. All of these women uphold reproductive rights, eliminate violence against women, equality under the law, freedom of expression and civil liberties. But if any of them give even a hint of a thumbs up to a crop top, they are branded as heretics by the mainstream. Does any of this sound familiar? Religious fundamentalism perhaps?


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ragdish wrote:  In

ragdish wrote:

 In atheistic and more gender inclusive societies such as Norway or Sweden, there is far more raunch in the mainstream compared to the US.

Where do you get that from? I'm Norwegian, and there's not a lot of raunch in the Norwegian mainstream...I think what you mean is that a lot of European countries have a more liberal attitude toward sexual imagery, which is true. That's because Europeans are taught at a young age that people get naked, have sex and make babies. For some reason this knowledge is considered too dangerous for young people in the United States.

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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  Hey missed ya geirj ,

  Hey missed ya geirj ,

yeah, we is way fucked up in the U.S.A. The whole world is nuts for that matter ! When we can all agree on that , we will improve; awfully sad ain't it .... well at least some care .... that is good .... no masters, no borders , no countries .... and girls as equals .... and beer galore Smile   


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geirj wrote: ragdish

geirj wrote:
ragdish wrote:

 In atheistic and more gender inclusive societies such as Norway or Sweden, there is far more raunch in the mainstream compared to the US.

Where do you get that from? I'm Norwegian, and there's not a lot of raunch in the Norwegian mainstream...I think what you mean is that a lot of European countries have a more liberal attitude toward sexual imagery, which is true. That's because Europeans are taught at a young age that people get naked, have sex and make babies. For some reason this knowledge is considered too dangerous for young people in the United States.

 I need to clarify further. I meant exactly what you stated, a healthy, liberal attitude towards sexuality. Correct me if I'm wrong but I wouldn't imagine anyone in Norway raising an outcry over what sexy clothing an individual wears. Denmark, Sweden, Holland and Norway are far more sexually enlightened IMO.

That stated, the Norwegians did give us Lene Alexandra (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqGrgaQsIIE). I think Norway is still enlightened anyways.


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geirj wrote:ragdish

geirj wrote:
ragdish wrote:

 In atheistic and more gender inclusive societies such as Norway or Sweden, there is far more raunch in the mainstream compared to the US.

Where do you get that from? I'm Norwegian, and there's not a lot of raunch in the Norwegian mainstream...I think what you mean is that a lot of European countries have a more liberal attitude toward sexual imagery, which is true. That's because Europeans are taught at a young age that people get naked, have sex and make babies. For some reason this knowledge is considered too dangerous for young people in the United States.

I think we in England are more similar to the US in this respect, although perhaps not quite so prudish. We don't like talking about sex with people outside our own generation. The very thought of talking about sex with our parents just feels wrong, similarly I think parents are reluctant to have 'the talk' until well into their children's teenage years. My dad's "talk" with me was simply: "Do you know what a condom is?" "No." "Its something you put over your penis when you have sex to stop her getting pregnant. Always use one. Goodnight."

In primary school in England (equiavalent to elementary in the US) it was absurd for a boy even to talk to a girl. Girls were "nasty, smelly, etc" and to have a girlfriend was even worse. In my last year of primary school my family moved to Scotland and the culture was entirely different, boys and girls could be friends and it was fine, and have girlfriends and no one cared, and it wasn't just that I'd got older because all the other years in the school were the same. My friend in France has a young sister (about 6-7) who's had "boyfriends" before and its not uncommon.

Basically English people are a bunch of prudes.


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   just a thought.What is

   just a thought.

What is this cock for ? Only baby making ? Would that mean cumming in a girls mouth is wrong ? Eating pussy into orgasim is also wrong ?  Says who and why ? God made sex, thanks god , I love girls, yeah .....

 


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what is so wrong with

what is so wrong with showing cleve? I mean I've seen it work to a womans advantage more times than not. I've always viewed feminist women as a hot chicks fat nasty friend that you have to impress to talk to the hot chick.

If ignorance is bliss, then knock the smile off my face


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at both of the posts above.

at both of the posts above. I am a fan of cleavage myself. *shrugs*


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ragdish wrote:If you have

ragdish wrote:

If you have read about Scarlett Johanssen, you'll get a sense of how rational she is on life in general not to mention that she is a committed atheist. And yet she is being duped by patriarchy for showing her cleavage?

It would depend on your interpretation of the power dynamic there. If you believe Ms. Johanssen is a victim, and there's a masculine power duping her into showing cleavage, that's one thing. If, on the other hand, she's a rational opportunist (my humble hypothesis), then she knows that showing the cleavage is both to her advantage, and she does so on that fine line of using and being used. That might put the power in her hands to a greater extent.

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fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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   Who that doesn't LOVE

   Who that doesn't LOVE  Kelley , is an idiot !


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o rly?

Guys way of thinking ruins about everything. It's so awful our embarrassing history of keeping women as slaves. I look at men in disgust. We in the west haven't progressed much ahead of the mid-east.

so voting and goverment positions aren't light years ahead of hijab and honor killings

btw i like women who can shoot hunt and cook sew and clean (ain't true equil treatment a bitch?)

I see men as weak, dumb innocent fools of our animalistic tendencies. To make progress Women must keep fighting male dominance. It is always the repressed that make for positive change. Progressive bold women are real heros.

i ain't weak dumb or innocent (but i am a fool now and again who ain't) as for domanance yes plz misstress more (lol) men and women are equil don't bullshit yourself men use brute force women use manipulation tho as a hack i have ssen the roles reversed as soon as pressure requires a diffrent tactic . heros they are but heros are just another way of sayng ppl who do there jobs don't overplay them dave mustaine knew this and i know this

Sometimes I wish I was a beautiful smart woman, then I could better shake things up, and yeah I would really flaunt my stuff. Women are so beautiful, and men are hypnotized IDIOTS. Yeah I AM prejudice, go girls, I am sick of men. Outlaw clothes ! ( unless it's cold

i think stem cells and genetic engernerring are close after all men are women with a y chromisome so the names they are how do you say wrong men should be ymen and women should be men cause really the big difference is smaller than two molicules but heres the bug whoop women are just as much to blame for todays sexist policys & problems if you want equality women demand it  if men want equality from women demand it

btw there are men who do the exact same thing for a living as a playboy model they are called playgirl models remember that ppl are truly all related and that we do behave simalerly around the world

i like sexy women

(btw brad you are the luckiest man on earth don't worry about my silly ass this is just an example pic)

and women like sexy men

(see man i told you not to worry go have fun with the beautifull lady)

so why is selling pics of yourself wrong hmm it isnt women aren't being objectified sex is not an object it is an activaty a concept and a biological function people have sex in public they have sex in groups sex is fun and easy but it is still not an obect porn is essental to art and art is essental to porn why are we such prudes?

 

 

 

 

mohammed is mr poopy pants allah is a cootie queen and islam is a lint licker
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Yeah--like this commercial?

Yeah--like this commercial? WARNING: NSFW or family or anybody opposed to porn!

 


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kellym78 wrote:Yeah--like

kellym78 wrote:

Yeah--like this commercial

Oh man - there's a product that speaks to my needs. That's just effective advertising.

Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence


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   Hey RRS , can't get to

   Hey RRS , can't get to the next page in some threads, as in this one, the next option is covered by the bottom banner .... this also happens when going backwards thru pages. Yeah I'm stuck in IE6, but this problem wasn't in the last RRS format ....


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Totally second Angelina!

Totally second Angelina!

That commercial is...interesting. Sticking out tongue


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kellym78 wrote:Yeah--like

kellym78 wrote:

Yeah--like this commercial? WARNING: NSFW or family or anybody opposed to porn!

 

 

That is fucking awesome.


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hehe

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

   Hey RRS , can't get to the next page in some threads, as in this one, the next option is covered by the bottom banner .... this also happens when going backwards thru pages. Yeah I'm stuck in IE6, but this problem wasn't in the last RRS format ....

 

its been stated in the log thread Iam

and if you think IE6 is fugly on this sight, it turns out i was actually using IE5 >.>

What Would Kharn Do?


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kellym78 wrote:Yeah--like

kellym78 wrote:

Yeah--like this commercial? WARNING: NSFW or family or anybody opposed to porn!

 

And I thought Zewa only sold toilet paper!!!

Now given that his dick was aimed at her, how did his cum spray 90 degrees away and end up on the camera lens? Is there a rational explanation to this phenomenon?


Mr. Atheist (not verified)
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ragdish wrote:kellym78

ragdish wrote:

kellym78 wrote:

Yeah--like this commercial? WARNING: NSFW or family or anybody opposed to porn!

 

And I thought Zewa only sold toilet paper!!!

Now given that his dick was aimed at her, how did his cum spray 90 degrees away and end up on the camera lens? Is there a rational explanation to this phenomenon?

 

Dried splooge in the tip of the penis causes a Ting.


Rocas511
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Some women who consider

Some women who consider themselves feminists have forgoten what feminism is supposed to be about.  A woman who dresses sexy is no different then a man who wears a sleaveless shirt to show off his arms.  Neither has to do with equal opportunity and or rights.  Besides...I love cleavage!!

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

-James Madison-