Naughty RRS? (the now official thread for the Scientology scandal)

wavefreak
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Naughty RRS? (the now official thread for the Scientology scandal)

Master Jedi Dan
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Vessel wrote: You think

Vessel wrote:

You think Scientology is an entity? Really? 

Scientology is a group of people who preys on people and their money.

Vessel wrote:

These are matters for the courts. If the allegations are true, then there should be a case filed against those who forced this person to live in such a manner against their will. We live in a society of laws. No matter how righteous you consider yourself to be, you are no judge and jury.

You think the courts can get things done efficiently?  With all the money Scientology has, they can easily bribe anyone.  Plus, they threaten, intimidate, and blackmail those who try to stand against them.

shelleymtjoy wrote:

You're right.  If only their website was down this would never happen. 

You really don't get this do you?  The website only a part of their plan.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Vessel wrote:

You think Scientology is an entity? Really?

Scientology is a group of people who preys on people and their money.

 

Vessel wrote:

These are matters for the courts. If the allegations are true, then there should be a case filed against those who forced this person to live in such a manner against their will. We live in a society of laws. No matter how righteous you consider yourself to be, you are no judge and jury.

You think the courts can get things done efficiently? With all the money Scientology has, they can easily bribe anyone. Plus, they threaten, intimidate, and blackmail those who try to stand against them.

I think you have a very Hollywood romanticized view of the judicial system if you think bribery is actually that big of a problem. And, though I agree Scientology is a group that should be investigated, you seem to think they are much more powerful than they are. You are starting to sound like those people who think the Freemasons control the world economy and are bringing in a New World Order. Let's stay grounded here.

Vigilante justice, which is what this group is doing, is simply unacceptable. A society can't operate by those rules. Even the vigilante will agree with this once the lynch mob is coming for him. 

 

 

 

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


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Master Jedi Dan wrote: You

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

You really don't get this do you? The website only a part of their plan.

I do get it.  You mentioned fliers and both pariahjane and I acknowledged the importance of education.  This specific course of action (DoS) however, is just wrong.  Period.  Sorry.  I'm not a portrait of perfect morality myself but I just can't see how that would fit into any plan. 


The Doomed Soul
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As much as i hate to side

As much as i hate to side with a Jedi... im inclined to agree with most of what Dan's said so far. Although i do think he's a we bit out there ^_^

 

oh, btw...

 

Can we PLEASE stop reffering to something as irrational, just because we dont know WTF is going on? i find it highly annoying >.>

(fyi, by WE i mean Every-one, but me ^_^)

What Would Kharn Do?


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The problem is that

The problem is that Scientology, or what is known of it anyway, is so incredibly "out there" that you can't help but label it "irrational".  I mean, an alien overlord that sent his opponents into a volcano on earth?  Not to mention that, according to their beliefs, adherents gain superpowers as they advance through the ranks (one of Tom Cruise's lesser powers is said to be the ability to walk through walls).  I really can't think of a better word for it than "irrational".  I say "what is known" because the Church doggedly hunts down and squashes any attempts to criticize, discuss, or even publicly distribute its philosophies, claiming that their doctrines are proprietary information protected by copyright (they also have no concept of "fair use&quotEye-wink.  To the point where Churchgoers deny Xenu to anyone who asks out of habit, unaware that the manuals for OT III have been public knowledge for some time now.


The Doomed Soul
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Hermit, my comment about

Hermit, my comment about "things as irrational" was reffered to dos attacks, annon, and the other mumbo jumbo scattered about this thread, and the views of the people talking about them.

 

I dont even know why i felt the need to clarify, because we all know, without a doubt that CoS is irrational... to put it lightly >.>

 

That was never in dispute ^_^

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FYI you all, they put out

FYI you all, they put out another youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

 


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pariahjane wrote: I don't

pariahjane wrote:

I don't know much about Anonymous but I think their actions are repugnant.

For all of you who support their actions, do you recall a time when something quite similar happened here? Why is it ok for Anon to do that to Scientology but it wasn't acceptable when someone attacked RRS?


I see it as the same difference between killing someone in a war and killing an innocent civillian on the street. Scientology play dirty and I find it fitting that people pay them back in kind. A kind of 'reap what you sow' kind of thing.
Having said that, a few posts back someone described the past actions of Anon and that made them look pretty petty, making themselves a nuisance on Habbo Hotel and the like. Nevertheless, I think what they're doing to Scientology is quite fitting.


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Zombie wrote: FYI you all,

Zombie wrote:

FYI you all, they put out another youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

This is going to be good.  hehe

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Zombie wrote:

Zombie wrote:

FYI you all, they put out another youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

 

That's the first one they did.  This one is the second one, put up yesterday:

 


 

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Too bad those videos don't

Too bad those videos don't actually say anything.


Master Jedi Dan
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  ^^ Released by

 

^^ Released by Anonymous today.  It is too late for legal action in this matter.  Scientology hides behind the First Amendment and a plethora of lawyers.  The only way we'll win is to take them down cold, not win a battle in court.  Even people whose family members have died as a result are afraid to sue the CoS.  From this article:

----------------------------

By all appearances, Noah Lottick of Kingston, Pa., had been a normal, happy 24-year-old who was looking for his place in the world. On the day last June when his parents drove to New York City to claim his body, they were nearly catatonic with grief. The young Russian-studies scholar had jumped from a 10th-floor window of the Milford Plaza Hotel and bounced off the hood of a stretch limousine. When the police arrived, his fingers were still clutching $171 in cash, virtually the only money he hadn't yet turned over to the Church of Scientology, the self-help "philosophy" group he had discovered just seven months earlier.

His death inspired his father Edward, a physician, to start his own investigation of the church. "We thought Scientology was something like Dale Carnegie," Lottick says. "I now believe it's a school for psychopaths. Their so-called therapies are manipulations. They take the best and brightest people and destroy them." The Lotticks want to sue the church for contributing to their son's death, but the prospect has them frightened. For nearly 40 years, the big business of Scientology has shielded itself exquisitely behind the First Amendment as well as a battery of high-priced criminal lawyers and shady private detectives.

----------------------------

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Sapient wrote: TheHermit

Sapient wrote:
TheHermit wrote:

And no, I am not a member of Anonymous. I have merely been studying them for some time for what can best be described as anthropological reasons.

Look me up on skype if you have it. I wouldn't mind hearing about the anthropology, I too am interested. I can't help but be reminded of the movie idiocracy. I hope you understand my vague nature. Eye-wink

 

I share both of your interests Smiling and i am reminded also of that movie 


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I watched the videos and I

I watched the videos and I can sympathize with this argument but I still don't condone or this type of action.  I don't disagree that it's 'fitting' but... well it seems I'm in the minority now so I'll just sit in my law abiding corner.  


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Anonymous' address to the

Anonymous' address to the people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBpabi234ZU


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lolwut


Thomathy
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We should all buy gas

We should all buy gas masks...

Kidding!  Has anyone seen the most recent exchange in this bloody battle?

Apparently a response to Anonymous' attacks has been posted on youtube...

The Regime Responds to Anonymous 

The Regime did something stupid.  They attacked 711chan they were quickly rebuffed by Anonymous and some horrible things happened to them...

The Regime's Website 

Ahem... in case anyone couldn't tell I use terms like 'battle', 'attack' and 'horrible things' lightly.  Actually, I think this is preferable, since it is happening, to any actual attack on people.  Also, it seems someone is fighting the offencive for scientology -poorly.  This would tend to level the playing field.  People are doing the same things (or at least trying to) to each other.

I can hardly say I approve of this behaviour, nor can I say that I support the actions of Anonymous, but frankly, I hate Tom Cruise.  There, I said it.  Oh, I mean, I hate scientology.  Hard to tell the two apart.  Anyhow, regardless of whether anyone approves of this or supports this, this is what is happening.  I have to assume that most everybody on these forums is hardly equipped to do anything but watch from the sidelines while websites get hacked and people's personal information gets posted on a high jacked website.  Whatever moral outrage there is over these actions should likely be reserved for scientology itself and not for people trying, in so many ways illegally, to put a message about scientology out there.

Should this act silence those already critical of scientology merely because to forthrightly express criticism of scientology at this time might imply an agreement with the actions of Anonymous?  I really don't think so.  Perhaps the actions of Anonymous will become useless if many people take up the fight in more legal ways with scientology right now?  The precedent has been set.  Are these actions, no matter how repugnant, to go to waste only so that scientology can remain as the disgusting organization it is?  And really, whose actions are the more repugnant and whose really struck the first blow?  I think that if the fight against organizations like scientology were more active then actions like those of Anonymous would be needless.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


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I really hope I don't gotta

I really hope I don't gotta work on 10 Feb (Sun) . I'd like to see how this turns out.

Unfortunately, I work 48-56 hours every week, and all the *chans are NSFW at my job. Actually, I haven't asked, but I'm not gonna ask, and I don't wanna find out the hard way. The general rule is that if you're not sure, don't visit the site. I just assume that it's not a good idea to visit any board whose name is in /this/ format when at work. When at home, however....

Good night, funny man, and thanks for the laughter.


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Might want to get some

Might want to get some former scientolgy folk on a show in the near future. It's the "in" thing on youtube, this thing with anon.

 

Anon, btw, revealed below:

 

 


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Thomathy wrote:

Thomathy wrote:

Should this act silence those already critical of scientology merely because to forthrightly express criticism of scientology at this time might imply an agreement with the actions of Anonymous? I really don't think so. Perhaps the actions of Anonymous will become useless if many people take up the fight in more legal ways with scientology right now? The precedent has been set. Are these actions, no matter how repugnant, to go to waste only so that scientology can remain as the disgusting organization it is? And really, whose actions are the more repugnant and whose really struck the first blow? I think that if the fight against organizations like scientology were more active then actions like those of Anonymous would be needless.



Thomathy makes an excellent point here. Yes, Anon started this, but they have since backed out. Despite this, groups of "newfags" as Anon would call them continue the fight, there are currently movements circulationg for a mass protest on 10 February 2008 (as you may already be aware). We may not have the hackers anymore, but who cares, this battle can rage onward. Do you not agree that Scientology is a shameful organization that must be stopped? Then why not stop it? If you are able then take part in the protests. If you are not, then contact your congressmen or other representatives and ask what they are doing to stop the Scientology cult.

Why should you participate? If Scientology is allowed free reign to censor their critics, what's to stop others from doing the same? CSE Ministries as well as Uri Geller have attempted the same actions against us. In comparison, I've not heard of the CSE killing any of their critics ... which group is more dangerous?



Anonomous has abandoned what could have possibly been their most important and most beneficial endevour. It is time to succeed where they have failed.

http://www.project-chanology.blogspot.com
http://www.perkinstragedy.org
http://www.lisamcpherson.org
http://www.whyaretheydead.net

cheers,
Brain Fork


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Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Quote:

Ok. Then you would also approve if someone bombed RRS? After all, many people feel the same way about atheism that you do about scientology.

Scientology is a cult you cannot escape from. Atheism is a belief (or non-belief) that you can decide to believe. We don't force people to be secretive and to give us all our money.

enemy of my enemy and all that eh jedi ? :P  

I see Jane's point but I can't help having some agreement with your sentiment too. Half of me cheers, half of me worries that violating the cult isn't less dangerous to the common interest than the cult itself. 

Though, in a morbid sort of way, the actions of Anonymous have entertainment value, I think honest forthright and primarily positive ideas like RRS are a more powerful force for good. Smiling

 

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Brain Fork wrote: Thomathy

Brain Fork wrote:

Thomathy makes an excellent point here. Yes, Anon started this, but they have since backed out.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I wouldn't say that 711chan == Anonymous. There are still plenty of other people out there. It would seem that if they backed off of anything, it was the DDoS attacks, and I'm kind of glad they did.

http://partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology

 -Triften


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triften wrote: Perhaps I'm

triften wrote:
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I wouldn't say that 711chan == Anonymous.

You are correct in your assumption that 711chan does not alone constitute Anon.  However, Partyvan and Encyclopedia Dramatica are not chans, the are records much in the same way that Wikipedia is not a message board.  The administration of 711 chan calls for an end to the attacks.  4chan has publicly stated that /i/ is the cancer that's killing /b/, I doubt they will hold up the fight.  420chan has locked their /i/ board, limiting any talk of the attacks.  eBaumsworld is not involved at all, they are merely a target used by the chans.  If you do not believe me, examine the chans yourself, be warned that they are not safe for work, children, or any decent human being though.
That being said, Anon is not organized.  There will be some who continue the attacks on Scientology, but that is not the issue.  The chans are backing off, that means the public face of Anon is abandoning the project.  This is where they are failing and why someone needs to continue the war against the Scientologists.

cheers,
Brain Fork


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Sense anonymous is everyone

Sense anonymous is everyone and no one their tactics are refining and changing.  They are dropping all the illegal actions and are focusing on Psyops and depleting CoS’s resources.  They are emphasizing going after the church and leaving the individual people alone.  I support the parts I like and ignore the stuff I don’t.  It’s all part of the greater goal of what we are doing here and that is eradicating the mind virus of theism.  One less virus floating around gets us ever so close.


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I think this is an extremely

I think this is an extremely interesting event personally,  I've been following anonymous for a long time. Im a long time reader of the something awful forums and the original anonymous was something awful's retarded 3rd cousin along with ebaum's and a number of other internet humor sites.   The original "anonymous" was a large group of people mostly from the chans 4chan 711chan etc.  Alot of the raiding was from the /B/ section or B Tards or whatever you'd like to call them.  They got and still get their kicks from harassing people online in large communities like myspace or face book.  At some point this leaked over into the real world as they harassed you tube attention mongers by digging around online to find their phone numbers and addresses etc.  Fox actually ran an extremely idiotic piece on them a while back, it was a show of how the world didn't get the internet(s) sub cultures.   The interesting part comes in where you watch and see what anonymous is now and I think will become.  There aren't books or dissertation on anything like this.  This is the disillusioned generation doing something and changing for the better everytime they learn something new.  No one expected a bunch of people whos main communciation venue is youtube and internet forums to be able to throw together a ragtag group of adults and kids to get together to protest something they mutually agree on.  What even more interesting is there no set leader,  natural leaders establish selves amongst their higherarchies  while ideas are thrown around positive and negative and the community as a whole decides what happens.

 

Personally I think the current situation started out as another attempt at a cheap laugh black faxing and DDOSing their websites.  Then came the one they call Wise Beard Man a scientology critic by the name Mark Bunker a long standing critic of the church of scientology.  He took the time to communicate what they were doing wrong and did it a venue and way that made sense to anonymous.  His words were heard still rough and new to what they were doing the anons came out in numbers but with still a wrong approach.  Their signs contained usual internet memes and hate slogans which don't work with alot of people espically not those who are dug into in the cult mindset.  At this point I started reading their forums, like everyone else here I don't like the CoS.  There actions have always reeked of dishonesty on a grand scale and their eyes are glazed with the hatred you expect to see from a pulpit pounding paritioner.  Alot of the initial dust settled and they began to think.  What reffered to as the "old guard" Mark Bunker and a number of more prominent ex scientologists or "Scilons" offered their expierence and help and its started to change the disheveled methods of anonymous.  They're shying away from using the hate signs and starting to focus on important issues like the forced abortions in the sea org and the disconnection policy.  They question the sources of not only the scilons but also the people who would whip them into frenzy without sound evidence.  They may not be what you expect but their becoming better thats the interesting part.  To watch a group of people motivated by the misfortune of other change and evolve is really interesting espically in the enviroment as untested as the internet as whole its as testament to its use as something besides an entertainment venue.  Too dismiss them as stupid "kids" is a massive miscalculation.  There are adults there are teenagers as well.  There methods have evolved to doing their part to petition government representatives, they flyer cities spread legitmate awareness of the abashment of human rights that takes place in the CoS.  They've created a pressure on the church allowing people to leave and ones that have felt isolated and alone now come out to speak to the public.  Take for example the recent website start by relatives of pretigous members of scientologies kids who were "disconnected".  They started a site a few days ago that allows people to tell their stories to feel welcomed in from the cold of the world that exists for people born into and tainted by the cult teachings.  The site says it, they able to do this because they know they have anonymous behind them. 

 

Personally I think they'll be part of history wether its a foot note or a chapter is yet to be discovered, but to dismiss them as children or to compare them to Idiocracy is in itself stupid and I expect better from a website of people whos charge is to question whats taken for granted.  I'm sure everone here is more than well versed on the horrible things the CoS has done in the name of what they conviently call a religion you'd think you'd want to find out more about these people whos cause is so close to your own.   They may not agree with  them as a whole  but to take whatever pill your given and not something i'd expect from a place like this.  I'll be there on the 15th, with my mask laughing at the stupid internet jokes and voicing my opnion.  Each time you see them in the future expect to see something different.