Naughty RRS? (the now official thread for the Scientology scandal)

wavefreak
Theist
wavefreak's picture
Posts: 1825
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
Naughty RRS? (the now official thread for the Scientology scandal)

Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5487
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is onlineOnline
It was you and merely

It was you and merely created this topic as a smoke screen to frame RRS and get away scotch free.

 

Dastardly clever, but I untangled your web. 


mindspread
mindspread's picture
Posts: 360
Joined: 2007-02-18
User is offlineOffline
[This comment is no longer

[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International]


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
We got big balls but they

We got big balls but they are only big enough to fit within the law.  It wasn't us.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Slice
Posts: 18
Joined: 2007-07-08
User is offlineOffline
It was 4chan...

It was 4chan...


wavefreak
Theist
wavefreak's picture
Posts: 1825
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote: We got big

Sapient wrote:
We got big balls but they are only big enough to fit within the law. It wasn't us.

 

Heh heh. You guys have trouble keepin your server running. Who's got time for hacking? But tell me the truth, aren't you even a little tempted sometimes?  


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5487
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is onlineOnline
wavefreak wrote: Sapient

wavefreak wrote:

Sapient wrote:
We got big balls but they are only big enough to fit within the law. It wasn't us.

 

Heh heh. You guys have trouble keepin your server running. Who's got time for hacking? But tell me the truth, aren't you even a little tempted sometimes?

 

 He's wearing a wire!


Little Roller U...
Superfan
Little Roller Up First's picture
Posts: 296
Joined: 2007-06-27
User is offlineOffline
Slice wrote: It was 4chan

Slice wrote:
It was 4chan Ebaums...

FIFY.

 (rules 1 and 2, remember?)


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
wavefreak wrote: But tell

wavefreak wrote:

But tell me the truth, aren't you even a little tempted sometimes?  

No, I think it's easier to tell that Scientology is a fraud/con game if the website is online. 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Hambydammit
High Level DonorModeratorRRS Core Member
Hambydammit's picture
Posts: 8657
Joined: 2006-10-22
User is offlineOffline
Quote: No, I think it's

Quote:
No, I think it's easier to tell that Scientology is a fraud/con game if the website is online.

[/chuckle]

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism


wavefreak
Theist
wavefreak's picture
Posts: 1825
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote: wavefreak

Sapient wrote:
wavefreak wrote:

But tell me the truth, aren't you even a little tempted sometimes?

No, I think it's easier to tell that Scientology is a fraud/con game if the website is online.

LOL. They must not know the proverb "even a fool appears wise when he remains silent". 


triften
Silver Member
triften's picture
Posts: 591
Joined: 2007-01-01
User is offlineOffline
While I see some griefing

[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of Scientology International]

Smiling 


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
ALL OF IT: DISGUSTING  (I

ALL OF IT: DISGUSTING 

(I MEAN ALLL OF IT!)

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Slice
Posts: 18
Joined: 2007-07-08
User is offlineOffline
Thanks alot, Little

Thanks alot, Little Roller...  Now my plan to blame this whole thing on /x/ is blown to pieces.


Fire
Fire's picture
Posts: 116
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
You're saying you don't like

You're saying you don't like the actions of anonymous or the CoS? Well nobody said anonymous was mature. They are pretty much a mob fueled by group think. They aren't an organization at all. Someone will post a thread on 4 chan to call for a raid. The posters will either laugh at that person or join in the invasion.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
The Crotch of Stupidology

The Crotch of Stupidology are a bunch of asshats for getting stuff deleted all over the internet through their anusface lawyers. I support those attacks on them 100% in general principal due to the way they are able to manipulate the legal system.

 

I honestly think when you are dealing with a foe that prevents legitimate legal means through having too much power over the legal system, that's when it's legitimate to use the gun, the bomb and the knife (or hacking).

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


Thomathy
SuperfanBronze Member
Thomathy's picture
Posts: 1861
Joined: 2007-08-20
User is offlineOffline
Can the Tom Cruise

Can the Tom Cruise scientology video mentioned in the OP still be viewed?  I'd really want to see it!

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


Fire
Fire's picture
Posts: 116
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?

"I'm going to put my ethics on you" 

Original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTKvNwyOx4E 

 

 

second leak video where he takes credit for  being a hero on 9-11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxOJmffRVbA


triften
Silver Member
triften's picture
Posts: 591
Joined: 2007-01-01
User is offlineOffline
Fire wrote: You're saying

Fire wrote:
You're saying you don't like the actions of anonymous or the CoS?

I think he means both. CoS sickens him for their ridiculous scamming and anonymous' tactic sickens him as well (especially after RRS's pummeling by a DoS). 

-Triften 


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Fire,  Can you link me to

Fire, 

Can you link me to the site that laughs at the people that go to jail for a long time for commiting such crimes? 

The rest of the information you requested is.....DDOS attack... sorry no service...

 

Also... fuck Scientology.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/scientology_is_deadly_the_unfunny_truth

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Fire
Fire's picture
Posts: 116
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
Anonymous attacks the church of scientology

Anonymous, a group of anonymous posters from 4chan and Encyclopedia Dramatica in response to Scientology's repeated efforts to silence its critics, the latest attempt being to file a DMCA claim against the Tom Cruise video on youtube. The video was an internal scientology document that features the unintentionally hilarious ramblings of Tom Cruise who will put his ethics in you and another where he takes credit for saving everyone on 9-11.

Anyway Youtube video that introduces the attack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/PROJECT_CHANOLOGY

and more details about their specific tactics

http://partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Upon moving the two

Upon moving the two scientology threads together, the thread from Fire got posted in backwards order.  As an apology I've loaded a scientology playlist to the first post.

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
Hackers 1, Scientology 0


 

Check out this article for the good news.

FTA:

--------------------

A hacking group calling itself "Anonymous" has posted a chilling video on the internet, announcing that it plans to "dismantle" the Church of Scientology.

Wired.com reports that Anonymous has flooded Scientology servers with a distributed denial of service attack, is choking the Church's phone lines with prank calls and sending looped faxes of solid black pages.

"Over the years, we have been watching you -- your campaigns, your suppression of dissent, your litigious nature. All of these things have caught our eye," a synthesized voice on the video tells "leaders of Scientology".

"Anonymous has therefore decided your organisation should be destroyed, for the good of your followers, for the good of mankind and for our own enjoyment."

"We shall systematically expel you from the internet and proceed to dismantle the Church of Scientology in its current form."

"You have nowhere to hide, because we are everywhere. You will find no recourse in attack, because for each of us that falls, 10 more will take his place."

--------------------

I can't wait to see what these guys do.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


TheHermit
TheHermit's picture
Posts: 32
Joined: 2008-01-22
User is offlineOffline
So who are you rooting

So who are you rooting for?  The assholes, or the shitheads?

Seriously, I have no love for Anonymous and less for Scientology. Scientology deceives people into giving them all their money, which they then use to bully anyone who dares speak against them.  Anonymous picks a target and terrorizes them at every turn for nothing more than their own sadistic amusement.  Although it's nice to see two groups I dislike at each other's throats, I kinda want them both to lose.


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
TheHermit wrote: So who

TheHermit wrote:

So who are you rooting for?  The assholes, or the shitheads?

Seriously, I have no love for Anonymous and less for Scientology. Scientology deceives people into giving them all their money, which they then use to bully anyone who dares speak against them.  Anonymous picks a target and terrorizes them at every turn for nothing more than their own sadistic amusement.  Although it's nice to see two groups I dislike at each other's throats, I kinda want them both to lose.

Anonymous FTW.

 

 

^^Story

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
TheHermit wrote: So who

TheHermit wrote:

So who are you rooting for?  The assholes, or the shitheads?

Seriously, I have no love for Anonymous and less for Scientology. Scientology deceives people into giving them all their money, which they then use to bully anyone who dares speak against them.  Anonymous picks a target and terrorizes them at every turn for nothing more than their own sadistic amusement.  Although it's nice to see two groups I dislike at each other's throats, I kinda want them both to lose.

I don't know much about Anonymous but I think their actions are repugnant. 

For all of you who support their actions, do you recall a time when something quite similar happened here?  Why is it ok for Anon to do that to Scientology but it wasn't acceptable when someone attacked RRS?

If god takes life he's an indian giver


Watcher
atheist
Posts: 2326
Joined: 2007-07-10
User is offlineOffline
I had never even heard of

I had never even heard of this Internet group Anonymous before now.

How long have they been around?


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
Quote: I don't know much

Quote:

I don't know much about Anonymous but I think their actions are repugnant. 

For all of you who support their actions, do you recall a time when something quite similar happened here?  Why is it ok for Anon to do that to Scientology but it wasn't acceptable when someone attacked RRS?

Destroying irrationality sometimes needs a more radical approach than what we do here.

I don't think I've been around long enough to remember a similar attack on the RRS, but the last time I checked we don't kill people, destroy lives, take all (And I mean LITERALLY ALL) the money people have, threaten people who tell others bad things about us, etc., etc.  I hope you get the point.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


TheHermit
TheHermit's picture
Posts: 32
Joined: 2008-01-22
User is offlineOffline
Watcher wrote: I had never

Watcher wrote:

I had never even heard of this Internet group Anonymous before now.

How long have they been around?

There have been people calling themselves "Anonymous" for a long time.  You could say that the current "raid"-centric vision of Anonymous is a very recent development.  Most anyone in the US have heard about them is a sensationalist piece by Faux News, which called them "hackers on steroids" and implied they used exploding vans.  On the internet they're generally responsible for chaos in Habbo Hotel by blocking entryways and organizing their avatars in swastikas, in Second Life for crashing several servers and locales with endlessly replicating items, shouting spoilers to the seventh Harry Potter book the day before its release, and other acts of misanthropy.  An easy way to tell is: if they claim to be messengers from ebaumsworld, it's probably Anonymous.  Anonymous hates ebaumsworld, and it makes them chuckle inside every time someone associates their anger towards Anonymous with ebaumsworld.

And no, I am not a member of Anonymous.  I have merely been studying them for some time for what can best be described as anthropological reasons.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Watcher wrote: I had never

Watcher wrote:

I had never even heard of this Internet group Anonymous before now.

How long have they been around?

They are 4chan, encyclopedia dramatica, and more.  

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7522
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
TheHermit wrote: And no, I

TheHermit wrote:

And no, I am not a member of Anonymous. I have merely been studying them for some time for what can best be described as anthropological reasons.

Look me up on skype if you have it.  I wouldn't mind hearing about the anthropology, I too am interested.  I can't help but be reminded of the movie idiocracy.  I hope you understand my vague nature.  Eye-wink

 

 

 

 

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Quote:

I don't know much about Anonymous but I think their actions are repugnant. 

For all of you who support their actions, do you recall a time when something quite similar happened here?  Why is it ok for Anon to do that to Scientology but it wasn't acceptable when someone attacked RRS?

Destroying irrationality sometimes needs a more radical approach than what we do here.

I don't think I've been around long enough to remember a similar attack on the RRS, but the last time I checked we don't kill people, destroy lives, take all (And I mean LITERALLY ALL) the money people have, threaten people who tell others bad things about us, etc., etc.  I hope you get the point.

Actually when something like that happens I do believe the websites lose money.  Sorry, still unacceptable behavior.  It's like throwing paint on someone's fur coat because you're against fur. 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
pariahjane wrote: Actually

pariahjane wrote:

Actually when something like that happens I do believe the websites lose money.  Sorry, still unacceptable behavior.  It's like throwing paint on someone's fur coat because you're against fur. 

Of course websites lose money.  But this isn't all Anonymous is going to do.  This is only the beginning.  But who the hell cares if Scientology loses money anyways?  They've already managed to take everything from those who follow their cult.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


MattShizzle
Posts: 7966
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
pariahjane

pariahjane wrote:
TheHermit wrote:

So who are you rooting for?  The assholes, or the shitheads?

Seriously, I have no love for Anonymous and less for Scientology. Scientology deceives people into giving them all their money, which they then use to bully anyone who dares speak against them.  Anonymous picks a target and terrorizes them at every turn for nothing more than their own sadistic amusement.  Although it's nice to see two groups I dislike at each other's throats, I kinda want them both to lose.

I don't know much about Anonymous but I think their actions are repugnant. 

For all of you who support their actions, do you recall a time when something quite similar happened here?  Why is it ok for Anon to do that to Scientology but it wasn't acceptable when someone attacked RRS?

 

The RRS doesn't go around intimidating/bullying/suing anyone who criticizes them.

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


wavefreak
Theist
wavefreak's picture
Posts: 1825
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
MattShizzle wrote: The RRS

MattShizzle wrote:

The RRS doesn't go around intimidating/bullying/suing anyone who criticizes them.

So ya all beat me up for the fun of it? Wink I feel so much better.Tongue out


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

pariahjane wrote:

Actually when something like that happens I do believe the websites lose money.  Sorry, still unacceptable behavior.  It's like throwing paint on someone's fur coat because you're against fur. 

Of course websites lose money.  But this isn't all Anonymous is going to do.  This is only the beginning.  But who the hell cares if Scientology loses money anyways?  They've already managed to take everything from those who follow their cult.

Ok.  Then you would also approve if someone bombed RRS?  After all, many people feel the same way about atheism that you do about scientology.

 

If god takes life he's an indian giver


dave805
dave805's picture
Posts: 82
Joined: 2007-12-27
User is offlineOffline
Hey guys long time no see

Hey guys long time no see

 

Here is a link to the Tom Cruise video and info

http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientology-tried-to-suppress 

 


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
Quote: Ok.  Then you

Quote:

Ok.  Then you would also approve if someone bombed RRS?  After all, many people feel the same way about atheism that you do about scientology.

Scientology is a cult you cannot escape from.  Atheism is a belief (or non-belief) that you can decide to believe.  We don't force people to be secretive and to give us all our money.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Quote:

Ok.  Then you would also approve if someone bombed RRS?  After all, many people feel the same way about atheism that you do about scientology.

Scientology is a cult you cannot escape from.  Atheism is a belief (or non-belief) that you can decide to believe.  We don't force people to be secretive and to give us all our money.

Oh, I see (um, not really).  But bombing their sites will? 

There are people out there that think atheism is a cult and that it is a belief.  By your reasoning then they should do the same thing to an atheist site that was done to the scientologist site.

If god takes life he's an indian giver


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
pariahjane wrote: Oh, I

pariahjane wrote:

Oh, I see (um, not really).  But bombing their sites will?  

Bombing their sites is only the beginning.  People are already out there spreading flyers about Scientology, and Anonymous will be at the London CoS on February 10th:

 

 

pariahjane wrote:

There are people out there that think atheism is a cult and that it is a belief.  By your reasoning then they should do the same thing to an atheist site that was done to the scientologist site.

The key word here is think.  We know that Scientology is a cult.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

pariahjane wrote:

Oh, I see (um, not really).  But bombing their sites will?  

Quote:
Bombing their sites is only the beginning.  People are already out there spreading flyers about Scientology, and Anonymous will be at the London CoS on February 10th:

pariahjane wrote:

There are people out there that think atheism is a cult and that it is a belief.  By your reasoning then they should do the same thing to an atheist site that was done to the scientologist site.

The key word here is think.  We know that Scientology is a cult.

I still disagree about the bombing.  It's still not ok regardless of whether we know/think they are a cult or not.  Would you support the bombing of Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, etc sites?  Would you be pissed if someone bombed this site?  If you approve of this tactic for anon then why don't you approve of it across the board?

If god takes life he's an indian giver


shelley
ModeratorRRS local affiliate
shelley's picture
Posts: 1859
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
How does knowing your cause

How does knowing your cause is right justify unlawful, unauthorized, or inacceptable action?  I don't know what you would be doing for your cause behind bars... hell, most if not almost all of computer security incidents in the categories you are referring to are actionable and typically handled through civil proceedings. 

So give them a way to get more money because they took all the money from their followers?  Way to be rational!  (In case it's not obvious, that's sarcasm.)  I have been trained in incident response by law enforcement and quite frankly I'm damn good at it.  If a religious site is subject to a DoS attack by an athiest organization tell them to PM me, I will help them implement a CIRT and not even send them my bill.


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
shelleymtjoy wrote: How

shelleymtjoy wrote:

How does knowing your cause is right justify unlawful, unauthorized, or inacceptable action?  I don't know what you would be doing for your cause behind bars... hell, most if not almost all of computer security incidents in the categories you are referring to are actionable and typically handled through civil proceedings. 

So give them a way to get more money because they took all the money from their followers?  Way to be rational!  (In case it's not obvious, that's sarcasm.)  I have been trained in incident response by law enforcement and quite frankly I'm damn good at it.  If a religious site is subject to a DoS attack by an athiest organization tell them to PM me, I will help them implement a CIRT and not even send them my bill.

How else do you suggest we destroy Scientology?  Besides, the DOS attack on their site is only a part of the master plan.  Some of us would rather do something about irrationality than sit here on the forums and whine and pout about stupid theists.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


TheHermit
TheHermit's picture
Posts: 32
Joined: 2008-01-22
User is offlineOffline
Sapient wrote: TheHermit

Sapient wrote:
TheHermit wrote:

And no, I am not a member of Anonymous. I have merely been studying them for some time for what can best be described as anthropological reasons.

Look me up on skype if you have it. I wouldn't mind hearing about the anthropology, I too am interested. I can't help but be reminded of the movie idiocracy. I hope you understand my vague nature. Eye-wink

 Unfortunately, I don't have Skype.  Sad

 The quick run down is, on the sites frequented by Anonymous, all users are forced to post anonymously.  There are no usernames nor avatars.  This means that there is no such things as reputation, or trusted members, or cliques, or post ownership, or whatever.  Every post stands on its own, independent from every other post anyone has ever made.  It also means there is practically no responsibility for anything posted; pretty much the only thing that can get you banned is posting grossly illegal material (read: child porn), but everything leading up to that is fair game.  It's also mostly impossible for the veracity of any post to be checked, leading to an intense distrust of any claim regardless of how benign it is.  Example: any poster that identifies themselves as female is told "TITS OR GTFO", or translated "post pictures of your boobs or we won't believe you".  How much of this is based on mere distrust and how much is based on, "there's a chance she'll show them so I might as well ask" is debateable.  The society that grew out of rules like this is interesting, if not exactly what I'd call "commendable".


pariahjane
pariahjane's picture
Posts: 1595
Joined: 2006-05-06
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan How else do

Master Jedi Dan

How else do you suggest we destroy Scientology?  Besides, the DOS attack on their site is only a part of the master plan.  Some of us would rather do something about irrationality than sit here on the forums and whine and pout about stupid theists.

[/quote wrote:

That's a great attitude to have.  If someone wants to believe in Scientology then more power to them.  If they're stupid enough to buy into that shit then they deserve to have their money taken from them.

Rather than go around 'bombing' their sites, which is counter productive and illegal they could be doing other things.  They are apparently handing out flyers, which is good.  Education would help dispel the absurdity of Scientology.  Go protest outside of their temples or something. There are definitely other ways to proceed.

Why didn't you answer my question?  It's a simple yes or no. 

There are plenty of other things that people on this forum do to combat the issues that arise from religion.   

I think purposefully damaging something that belongs to another is very wrong.  You're just as bad as the Christians who did the same thing to RRS.

If god takes life he's an indian giver


wavefreak
Theist
wavefreak's picture
Posts: 1825
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan wrote: How

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

How else do you suggest we destroy Scientology? Besides, the DOS attack on their site is only a part of the master plan. Some of us would rather do something about irrationality than sit here on the forums and whine and pout about stupid theists.

This sounds irrational. Should you be bombed?  


Vessel
Vessel's picture
Posts: 646
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan wrote: How

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

How else do you suggest we destroy Scientology? Besides, the DOS attack on their site is only a part of the master plan. Some of us would rather do something about irrationality than sit here on the forums and whine and pout about stupid theists.

So you don't beleve in fighting irrationality with rationality, you believe in attacking those who you think irrational?

You act as if you agree with these actions for the good of the people who fall prey to 'Scientology', as if 'Scientology' is some entity which kidnaps unsuspecting people and holds them in its lair. Try to be more rational in your thought processes. Scientology is formed of Scientologists, people like any other people except that they hold an irrational belief. Those people you are condoning attacking are the same people you claim you want to help with such attacks. Its like killing people so you can keep them safe from being murdered. Can you not see the severly irrational thought processes you are employing there?

Irrational beliefs should be confronted by attacking the beliefs, not those who hold them. It is a very self righteous attitude based in dogmatic thought processes that is behind actions like these. These type of actions should be confronted just as vehemently as the actions driven by theistic dogmatism that most here find so distasteful.     

 

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


shelley
ModeratorRRS local affiliate
shelley's picture
Posts: 1859
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

How else do you suggest we destroy Scientology? Besides, the DOS attack on their site is only a part of the master plan. Some of us would rather do something about irrationality than sit here on the forums and whine and pout about stupid theists.

I do not just sit on the forums and whine and pout about stupid theists. Yesterday I was cornered and yet again intimidated by an Islamic student in an elevator on campus because I am personally known to be that much of a threat to their plans to continue to coerce the public University I attend into spending our student fees on religious accommodations.

Ever heard of uniting Atheist organizations? I have so many organizations offering my group events and cooperation that there aren't even enough days on the calendar for everything I want to do this year - and I'm doing all this with *no* budget whatsoever. That's right, not even a dime. Unless you count the OUT Campaign shirt I bought out of my own money to support the RRS and wear at a dozen tabling events on my calendar for this Spring. I just told another group, per their request to help us out, that I would provide pamphlets for one of their tabling sessions as well. The affiliate I started on campus is in the process of organizing a trip to Capital Hill with another nationwide secular organization. I've also been asked to be interviewed on film for a documentary on grassroots activism. While I met the filmmaker and discussed the project, I haven't gotten back to them yet because I've been too tied up with paperwork at the moment to call the RRS house and hear their thoughts on it. I was supposed to already have turned in an article to the SSA on the need to be vocal on campus. Perhaps you could write it for me because I'm a little bit preoccupied at the moment sitting on forums whining and pouting about stupid theists.

I'm on the computer right now because I'm preparing a lecture I'm giving to get local activists up to speed on the ID debate in my state. I figured I'd take a break and check out the lesbian love thread. IMO, even that thread is more productive than DoS attacks. Well, at least it's more pleasurable.

Next weekend I'm hosting a social event at my house for local AU members and another RRS affiliate group that is traveling up here for a speaker from the Secular Coalition. That's right, I'm opening my house and my liquor cabinet up to a bunch of people I hardly know because we're going to be discussing starting an annual statewide mini-convention where we can all share resources. I also helped John (GW SKEPTIC) with ideas, motivation, and even gave him a copy of the constitution I wrote to get a group started on his campus. I've also helped Roy (Dragonfire) extensively with the VCU group LeftofLarry co-founded. I could talk about what I've done with two other local groups but you won't recognize their names for a few more years so I won't bother.

I'm trying to keep a religious university I'll term "Jesus Camp for Adults" from getting their accreditation because they don't seek to educate... they publicly proclaim their sole purpose of existence is as a training ground for religious politicians. In fact, I'm shadowing an accreditation process at a 'real' university to get hands-on experience.

 

So what's the rest of the plan? Handing out pamphlets will help but not much if it's followed by DoS, email spam, harassment, unauthorized intrusion into computer systems, and just the general tortious interference of the church's everyday business.

Yesterday was my first day of class this semester. In room of 35 other professionals after a 10 minute presentation on spoofing I threw back a one sentence simple attack which shocked the entire room. My professor, who holds a doctorate and is working in the field daily, suggested people go to me rather than him for this topic. If a DoS would help the cause I could have done that in my sleep. Instead I spend an average of 40% of every single day advocating, organizing, unifying, and just plain telling everyone that will listen that, when it comes to religion, the emperor has no clothes.


Master Jedi Dan
Master Jedi Dan's picture
Posts: 289
Joined: 2007-05-30
User is offlineOffline
Vessel wrote: You act as

Vessel wrote:

You act as if you agree with these actions for the good of the people who fall prey to 'Scientology', as if 'Scientology' is some entity which kidnaps unsuspecting people and holds them in its lair.

Indeed it is.

pariahjane wrote:

If someone wants to believe in Scientology then more power to them.  If they're stupid enough to buy into that shit then they deserve to have their money taken from them.

Have you not heard of being born into a religion?

Here is a sample of someone who was born into the CoS.  Taken from this post.

-------------------------------------

1. Not allowed to see my mom but once a day when I was six. Was only permitted to see her at dinner for one hour.

2. My mom was made to work 12 hour days and was only paid $50.00 a week and given room and board.

3. I was made to live in a dorm at the age of six, separate from my mom or dad, with three other girls my age.

4. I was made to believe from a very early age that Scientologist were the better than other people, and if you were not in it, you were not good enough.

5. I was told to only tell my grandparents good things about myself when I visited, to not let on if I was behind in school, but just make them think I am a great student.

6. Scientologists constantly refers to people outside of their 'religion" as "Wogs". A derogatory term used commonly by members in it.

7. I was made to join staff when I was 14. I had to sign a billion year contract because of their beliefs in reincarnation.

8. I had to stop attending school when I was 14, to join staff. I could only attend school one day a week on Sunday for about 10 hours.

9. I was made to live in a two room apartment with seven other women when I was 14. Overcrowding is commonplace. I live like that for most of my seven years on staff.

10. I had 30 minute lunches, breakfasts and dinners. If I was late back to work I would get in trouble.

11. I was working 10 hour days, six days a week, from the age of 16. I was not getting paid overtime. I was only making $50.00 a week.

12. The only time I would have off, was every other week, if my production was good enough. Sometimes I would go a month without even one day off.

13. When I joined, I would not see my mom for days at a time. She lived in a different dorm than I did, and had a different eating schedule than me.

14. At the age of 15 I was made to stay up until 12 pm every Thursday and Friday to attend Scientology meetings and clean their facilities with all the other staff.

15. After Scientology events we were all assigned a number of books or tapes we were suppose to sell to the public. We had to make our quotas before we were allowed to go home. I started selling books when I was 15. Sometimes we had to call from lists we were given to make our quotas. Most of these lists were to Scientologist who were out of the state or out of the country.

16. The staff was not aloud to eat the nice food put out for public after events. It was only for the public, we would get in trouble if we were caught eating it.

17. The staff was not allowed to socialize with the public after events, only to sell books, we could not join them on the dance floor, or in the auditorium.

18. The Hacienda (apartment complex where the staff live) is set up so that staff can not just get up and leave when they want to. The Premises is surrounded by a large gate and bushes so that people cannot see in easily. There are several cameras around the complex to keep an eye on the staff. There is a security guard at the front gate at all times to let people in and out. Staff may not leave without first explaining where they are going and what they are doing to the security guard.

19. Sea Org staff are not allowed to own televisions, mine was confiscated when I was 14 or 15. Staff are not aloud to watch TV ever. Movies are only allowed on the weekend if you get approval to have time off. Movies are not allowed on weekdays.

20. Most staff do not have cars or cell phones because it costs to much money to own them. If you have a car, you have to check with the security guard if you want to leave, if he is suspicious he will not let you leave.

21. The only days staff are allowed to celebrate and dance together is the Christmas party and Beer and Cheese party. Twice a year. Don't ask, neither of these celebrations make much sense.

22. I was forced to cut all ties with my dad when I was 15. He was declared a Suppressive Person by Scientology, and that meant I could no longer talk or associate myself with him at all.

23. My mom died of cancer when I was 16. She was still on staff at the time, and she wrote in her will she wanted my brother and I assigned the guardians of Rusty and Linda Hilton, both on staff at Flag.

24. Once I joined staff I could no longer visit my relatives or grandparents for even a weekend without prior approval. At times my once a year request was denied for whatever reason, or no one had the time to look at it.

25. I was not allowed to socialize with anyone outside of the staff. If I did I was reported on and pulled in for questioning.

26. I was put on the e-meter once a week, along with all the other staff, to see if I had a clean or dirty needle. Clean meant I was OK, dirty meant I was hiding something. If it was dirty I was pulled in for questioning, and made to write up stuff I thought I was hiding

27. After each live success story we were suppose to stand up, clap, and say hip hip hooray three times to LRHs picture. This was daily. After each course completion in Scientology we had to tell everyone in our class our successes, once we were done we had to clap and say hip hooray to LRHs picture. His pictures are everywhere in their buildings. It was not optional you had to do it.

28. I had to get a divorce while I was in Scientology because my husband wanted out, and I did not. I was actually not told he was leaving until the day he left. He didn't even tell me, I was told by someone who knew him. It is against their rules to speak or mention to anyone in Scientology you are leaving staff. If you do, you can get kicked out and never be able to talk to your friends in it again.

29. When I finally decided I wanted to leave because I missed my ex husband too much, I was not allowed to just go. They made me work in the galley scrubbing pots and pans. They said I could not mention to anyone I wanted to leave, but everyone pretty much knew what I was doing. It took me three months of being separated from the group, all my friends, being put on the e-meter (lie detector) for two weeks straight and asked if I intend to contact my dad when I leave. I finally was aloud to leave, but was told I was moving to New Mexico to work for a Scientology school. I was told I could not return to Clearwater at all.

30. They made me sign a 10,000.00 waiver, promising that I would never talk out about my experiences with Scientology. I had to sign it before they would let me leave.

31. I was assigned handlers when I wanted to leave. I could not leave any of the buildings or walk outside without one of them. There are security guards assigned to each building, video cameras at each building entrance and exit, so if I wanted to leave without my handler, they would know.

32. I returned to Clearwater about a year after they sent me away. I was approached by one of their security guards and asked what I was doing here. I was on a public street on my lunch break. I just ignored him and walked away. They still thought they could control me, even though I was no longer on staff.

33. When my brother found out I was talking to my dad again, he refused to talk to me anymore. Now that I have associate myself with my dad, I am also declared, which means my brother can't talk to me.

34. Once I left, my "legal guardians' have never contacted me or spoke to me, even before I was declared.

35. I do not have one single friend I knew before I left Scientology (2002). They have all chosen to write me off because I no longer am a Sceintologist. Once I was declared, I was deleted from about 15 peoples myspace page. I did not delete them , they deleted me.

36. I am not allowed to talk to my Scientology school or teachers. They will also no longer talk to me. Once I left staff, they no longer thought it necessary to associate themselves with me.

37. I did not have a High School diploma when I left in 2002. I was 20 years old. Once I was married, they said I was now considered an adult and I no longer needed to attend school. I was only 17 when I married.

38. I never learned to drive, I now have a car, but driving was something they did not think was necessary.

 -------------------------------------

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


Vessel
Vessel's picture
Posts: 646
Joined: 2006-03-31
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Vessel wrote:

You act as if you agree with these actions for the good of the people who fall prey to 'Scientology', as if 'Scientology' is some entity which kidnaps unsuspecting people and holds them in its lair.

Indeed it is.

You think Scientology is an entity? Really? 


Quote:

Have you not heard of being born into a religion?

Here is a sample of someone who was born into the CoS. Taken from this post.

-------------------------------------

1. Not allowed to see my mom but once a day when I was six. Was only permitted to see her at dinner for one hour.

2. My mom was made to work 12 hour days and was only paid $50.00 a week and given room and board.

3. I was made to live in a dorm at the age of six, separate from my mom or dad, with three other girls my age.

4. I was made to believe from a very early age that Scientologist were the better than other people, and if you were not in it, you were not good enough.

5. I was told to only tell my grandparents good things about myself when I visited, to not let on if I was behind in school, but just make them think I am a great student.

6. Scientologists constantly refers to people outside of their 'religion" as "Wogs". A derogatory term used commonly by members in it.

7. I was made to join staff when I was 14. I had to sign a billion year contract because of their beliefs in reincarnation.

8. I had to stop attending school when I was 14, to join staff. I could only attend school one day a week on Sunday for about 10 hours.

9. I was made to live in a two room apartment with seven other women when I was 14. Overcrowding is commonplace. I live like that for most of my seven years on staff.

10. I had 30 minute lunches, breakfasts and dinners. If I was late back to work I would get in trouble.

11. I was working 10 hour days, six days a week, from the age of 16. I was not getting paid overtime. I was only making $50.00 a week.

12. The only time I would have off, was every other week, if my production was good enough. Sometimes I would go a month without even one day off.

13. When I joined, I would not see my mom for days at a time. She lived in a different dorm than I did, and had a different eating schedule than me.

14. At the age of 15 I was made to stay up until 12 pm every Thursday and Friday to attend Scientology meetings and clean their facilities with all the other staff.

15. After Scientology events we were all assigned a number of books or tapes we were suppose to sell to the public. We had to make our quotas before we were allowed to go home. I started selling books when I was 15. Sometimes we had to call from lists we were given to make our quotas. Most of these lists were to Scientologist who were out of the state or out of the country.

16. The staff was not aloud to eat the nice food put out for public after events. It was only for the public, we would get in trouble if we were caught eating it.

17. The staff was not allowed to socialize with the public after events, only to sell books, we could not join them on the dance floor, or in the auditorium.

18. The Hacienda (apartment complex where the staff live) is set up so that staff can not just get up and leave when they want to. The Premises is surrounded by a large gate and bushes so that people cannot see in easily. There are several cameras around the complex to keep an eye on the staff. There is a security guard at the front gate at all times to let people in and out. Staff may not leave without first explaining where they are going and what they are doing to the security guard.

19. Sea Org staff are not allowed to own televisions, mine was confiscated when I was 14 or 15. Staff are not aloud to watch TV ever. Movies are only allowed on the weekend if you get approval to have time off. Movies are not allowed on weekdays.

20. Most staff do not have cars or cell phones because it costs to much money to own them. If you have a car, you have to check with the security guard if you want to leave, if he is suspicious he will not let you leave.

21. The only days staff are allowed to celebrate and dance together is the Christmas party and Beer and Cheese party. Twice a year. Don't ask, neither of these celebrations make much sense.

22. I was forced to cut all ties with my dad when I was 15. He was declared a Suppressive Person by Scientology, and that meant I could no longer talk or associate myself with him at all.

23. My mom died of cancer when I was 16. She was still on staff at the time, and she wrote in her will she wanted my brother and I assigned the guardians of Rusty and Linda Hilton, both on staff at Flag.

24. Once I joined staff I could no longer visit my relatives or grandparents for even a weekend without prior approval. At times my once a year request was denied for whatever reason, or no one had the time to look at it.

25. I was not allowed to socialize with anyone outside of the staff. If I did I was reported on and pulled in for questioning.

26. I was put on the e-meter once a week, along with all the other staff, to see if I had a clean or dirty needle. Clean meant I was OK, dirty meant I was hiding something. If it was dirty I was pulled in for questioning, and made to write up stuff I thought I was hiding

27. After each live success story we were suppose to stand up, clap, and say hip hip hooray three times to LRHs picture. This was daily. After each course completion in Scientology we had to tell everyone in our class our successes, once we were done we had to clap and say hip hooray to LRHs picture. His pictures are everywhere in their buildings. It was not optional you had to do it.

28. I had to get a divorce while I was in Scientology because my husband wanted out, and I did not. I was actually not told he was leaving until the day he left. He didn't even tell me, I was told by someone who knew him. It is against their rules to speak or mention to anyone in Scientology you are leaving staff. If you do, you can get kicked out and never be able to talk to your friends in it again.

29. When I finally decided I wanted to leave because I missed my ex husband too much, I was not allowed to just go. They made me work in the galley scrubbing pots and pans. They said I could not mention to anyone I wanted to leave, but everyone pretty much knew what I was doing. It took me three months of being separated from the group, all my friends, being put on the e-meter (lie detector) for two weeks straight and asked if I intend to contact my dad when I leave. I finally was aloud to leave, but was told I was moving to New Mexico to work for a Scientology school. I was told I could not return to Clearwater at all.

30. They made me sign a 10,000.00 waiver, promising that I would never talk out about my experiences with Scientology. I had to sign it before they would let me leave.

31. I was assigned handlers when I wanted to leave. I could not leave any of the buildings or walk outside without one of them. There are security guards assigned to each building, video cameras at each building entrance and exit, so if I wanted to leave without my handler, they would know.

32. I returned to Clearwater about a year after they sent me away. I was approached by one of their security guards and asked what I was doing here. I was on a public street on my lunch break. I just ignored him and walked away. They still thought they could control me, even though I was no longer on staff.

33. When my brother found out I was talking to my dad again, he refused to talk to me anymore. Now that I have associate myself with my dad, I am also declared, which means my brother can't talk to me.

34. Once I left, my "legal guardians' have never contacted me or spoke to me, even before I was declared.

35. I do not have one single friend I knew before I left Scientology (2002). They have all chosen to write me off because I no longer am a Sceintologist. Once I was declared, I was deleted from about 15 peoples myspace page. I did not delete them , they deleted me.

36. I am not allowed to talk to my Scientology school or teachers. They will also no longer talk to me. Once I left staff, they no longer thought it necessary to associate themselves with me.

37. I did not have a High School diploma when I left in 2002. I was 20 years old. Once I was married, they said I was now considered an adult and I no longer needed to attend school. I was only 17 when I married.

38. I never learned to drive, I now have a car, but driving was something they did not think was necessary.

-------------------------------------

These are matters for the courts. If the allegations are true, then there should be a case filed against those who forced this person to live in such a manner against their will. We live in a society of laws. No matter how righteous you consider yourself to be, you are no judge and jury. 

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


shelley
ModeratorRRS local affiliate
shelley's picture
Posts: 1859
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

...

Here is a sample of someone who was born into the CoS. Taken from this post.

...

You're right. If only their website was down this would never happen.

[edit: I apologize for coming offf overly sarcastic earlier and here but I don't think anyone here just sits around and whines.  I'm also surprised you would think that being around for so long.  While I realize (and think it's great) that everyone has their different approaches there is a line and while it might be fuzzy at times it's definatly before police officers come knocking at your door.)